would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Low testosterone issues, impacts on health & marriage, treatments, etc.
alaska bob
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would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby alaska bob » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:27 pm

I talked my dr. into testing this due to some concerns I've had with ED recently.

The test result is 279 - indicates "low" normal, with the range specified as 264-916. That seems like an awfully big range. I am 51. There is just one number on the lab report - I assume this is total, but there is no "free" number or any other statistic.

A few things I'd like to hear opinions on:

1) likelihood of Dr. suggesting treatment with it "normal" but that close to the bottom end of the range
2) natural ways to boost testosterone
3) the Dr. suggested that low T and ED aren't really related. Low T impacts desire/appetite but not ability to produce erections
4) I believe my testosterone isn't consistent - I've noticed I have periods where it just feels like nothing at all is happening down there - almost no sensation, the parts seem to be drawn in close to the body, no response to touch. Just wondering if this is common or if this is a sign of a different problem.

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby ledgemoor » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:18 pm

Hi Bob:

Ignore the "normal" range. I have no idea how they came up with that. Probably just tested a bunch of guys whose penises haven't fallen off yet . 279 is low. I suddenly started having problems at your age when my wife got cancer, and I could barely perform sexually at all. I am taking testosterone now, and my target level is 700 - 800.

Yes, this is the total testosterone reading. It is the free testosterone that really matters, but it is difficult to measure, and "normal" ranges vary between labs. They don't even overlap. In other words, you and I could not compare readings unless we went to the same lab. They're not sure what the bound testosterone does, but it probably is a storehouse for free testosterone. There is virtually no chance that your total is low and your free is ok. Get your total up, then worry about free if you are still having problems.

1. Most doctors would never suggest treatment. If you asked for it, he might. But he sounds really ignorant on this topic (as most doctors are). You need to get a doctor that specializes in hormones. Not sure how far out in the sticks you are up there, but you would normally go to a compounding pharmacy and ask for doctor referrals, and go to a4m.com and click on Directory.

A lot of guys here on TMB use a mail order outfit called Defy Medical. They seem really happy with them.

2. Lose weight, take DIM and zinc and copper, vitamin D (very important given your latitude, especially if you are a dark-complected native) and otherwise just take care of your general health. The problem is that your general health is so dependent on testosterone, so it is a vicious circle.... Frankly, I have never heard of anyone who is truly low as you are make a comeback using natural means other than taking testosterone. Taking testosterone IS a natural treatment BTW. What you will be injecting is the same stuff your body makes.

3. That's total BS. Find another doctor.

4. Testosterone levels do fluctuate. It tends to be highest in the morning. And sexual thoughts and activities affect it. Before I started taking testosterone, the only way I could get aroused enough to get relief was to masturbate while giving my wife oral sex. The intimacy and raw sexuality of the act, and pheromones probably.

All the best. You are doing the right thing considering testosterone. In most cases it is easily treatable, and will benefit you in so many other ways besides sex and a satisfied wife. There is a community of guys here who have been thru it and are happy to support you.
Last edited by ledgemoor on Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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be64
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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby be64 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:58 pm

279 isn’t just low normal, it is low. Ideally you would have the level of a twenty year old.

Yes, testosterone level plays a big part in erections.

I would seek out a doctor that will treat you. The doctor needs to understand that you have symptoms of low T. If you don’t have any complaInts there is no reason to treat you.

I do testosterone injections and I maintain my testosterone in the 850-1100 range. I am 53.
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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby reillyj » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:04 pm

alaska bob,

you shouldn't have to put up with that kind of attitude from a doctor (if you are getting that kind of attitude). You have the right to TRT, your numbers are very low and likely will continue to be and maybe drop even further.

TRT isn't just for libido and sex, it's for almost every other area of your health and well being and i believe the medical profession is doing a disservice to men when they just shrug them off saying it's "normal".

My H is getting TRT after fighting for it (finding a good doc that's KNOWLEDGEABLE is quite another matter) and he's about 9 weeks in and starting to really feel better and i do believe it has helped his ED.

I give him shots at home and i give them twice weekly--although many are doing once weekly--don't fall for doing a shot every two weeks. Google TRT and you will get a lot of info, i only wish my H would have been treated years ago, maybe he would have felt much better than the condition he is in now (and slowly climbing out of).

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby Hoosier52 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:07 pm

Labs have recently LOWERED the normal range on T. Probably because so many more men are being tested and found to what have what older scores showed to be low. What was once low is now the new "normal." They moved the goal line in response. As a result, Doctors are telling men, "You're normal" when they aren't.

I was in that range before I started TRT. My last lab was around 1100. At one time it was 1500+ and I felt phenomenal! But, my doc wanted to bring it down because of my hematocrit.

I would suggest you save yourself some time, money and frustration and look a Defy Medical FIRST. World class TRT at reasonable cost. That's who I found and started using and I have nothing but positive things to say about them.

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby Unfulfilled » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:12 pm

The huge problem in the medical world is a definition of terms.

The word “normal” when it is referred to in say a blood sample range. That “normal” range may have absolutely NOTHING to do with feeling well when within that range.

The “normal range” is a statistical mathematical term. It is simply a plot of every person tested (perhaps sevgregated for gender and/or age, but not necessarily). And this results in what in statisticsl mathematics as a “normal distribution”. Commonly seen as a “Bell Curve” as the graph is shaped like the liberty bell. The “normal range” in medical terms is set by exxluding the very far right 5% of the tests. And the far left 5%. This means that 90% fall within the statistical “normal range”.

This the bottom and top of the “normal range” are the 5% and 95% limits. Anyome who has test results that fall within 90% of the population are then called “normal”.

The problem is what was pointed out above. If the entire population is subject to an enviroment where almost everyone is low. When you then take a staristical normal. It shifts the entire bell curve to the left. Sure you can now still be within the 90%. But that level is now much lower than it was in the past.

In the case of testosterone. We seem to have TWO things going on which makes the “normal range” that doctors seem to use as the Bible are 1) the population being tested is NOT segregated in ANY way by age. This despite knowing that T levels naturally drop with age. But they include an 80 year old man and a 20 year old man the same, and include them in the same population sample. Clearly you can see what is truly healthy and normal for an 80 year old would be horrible for a 20 or 30 year old. Yet this is exactly what is being done. 2) for some reason as pointed out above th overall testosterone levels of men of all ages has significantly and measurably lower than they were say 50 years ago. So what actual blood levels were common for a 40 year old 50 years ago was much higher than a 40 year old today. So what a 40 year old today tests at would be considered low 50 years ago. But because the entire bell curve shifted to the left (lower) they are considered “normal”.

Think also about this. Who is recommended to be tested for low testosterone? Well of course people who are complaining, or are suspected of having a testosterone problem. So that means the “population” that is being tested are likely to be abnormal. Yet the accumulation of all these abnormal people is what is used as the “normal” population sample. In other words. The entire basis of the statistical analysis is severely flawed since they are not taking a representative sample of the entire population. Only those people who are tested for testosterone, most of which are only being tested because they may be low. This would further shift the bell curve to the left!

To have a ludicrous example to illistrate this point. Lets say we want to determine what is “normal” for human legs. But the only population we examine are skiers. Low and behold we find out that it is common, that is “normal” to have a sprained or broken leg or knee. So you go to the Dr and he examies you, and you have a broken leg and the doctor pronounces you normal. (Despite habing anbroken lef) So just go home there is nothing wrong with you! Now that example is ridiculous. But in essence in a more subtle way. That is exactly what is happening with testosterone and many other blood labs and normal range today

A 51 year old man goes in and has his total testosterone tested. And because it falls with a range of what is OK for an 80 year old man he is told he is “normal” so he doesn’t recommend HRT. Despite habing all the symptoms of low T and being substantially lower than men his own age or lower than a man of his age 50 years ago.

What a farce!

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby reillyj » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:40 pm

I also think that they ought to add testosterone testing to the normal battery of test they do yearly.

My husband is on TRT ONLY BECAUSE i had the presence of mind to pipe up and ask his doctor to test it, it should have been tested YEARS AGO, maybe he would have been spared so much hardship. i don't know why i happened to think about it at that one particular visit, i'm sure it was the Lord but also because i'm my husbands advocate and i am in love with all things health/medical.

i also had to pipe up and ask for a thyroid panel. And i imagine most men would not even think about asking for their testosterone to be tested which is why i really feel it should be part of routine BW. And then...if you do ask and have consent, finding a doctor that knows what they are doing or are willing enough to be engaged is another thing and it really is a travesty.

His GP did listen, he did test low and he was referred to an Endo who fortunately gave us what we wanted (shots) but is completely disinterested. He won't even test for Estradiol (thankfully there are labs which we will have to do the testing ourselves and PAY for it, if he tests high, i don't know what we'll do as i doubt he'll rx an AI if he doesn't even test for Estradiol) so men really have been done a disservice and are paying the price for it. Why should we have to age the hard way if there are viable treatments?

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby alaska bob » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:36 am

thanks for the feedback everyone. When my PA called to go over my lab results, they said if I wanted to get treated for it, they would refer me to a urologist. I visited one about two months ago when I first started having the issue with ED (or when it became apparent that it wasn't just a fluke). The urologist had indicated if the sample viagra didn't "get my mojo back" there were some other tests they could run. He had initially ruled out low T without testing for it because I still have a healthy appetite for sex.

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby Hoosier52 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:29 am

Defy has over 11,000 patients and growing. There is a reason why.

Frankly, most doctors, including urologists, are way behind the curve when it comes to TRT. The doc I first went to advertises as an HRT specialist but didn't even know what a sensitive estradiol test was even though it was on the Quest lab order form. He said he'd never heard of it. He represents most docs when it comes to TRT.

I can't say it enough, stop wasting your time with docs who have little or no training in TRT. At least call Defy and ask them your questions. There is no obligation. I don't work for Defy, I'm just one of 11,000 satisfied customers who hates to see men struggling to get help.


http://www.defymedical.com/

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby ledgemoor » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:11 pm

Alaska Bob wrote:The urologist had indicated if the sample viagra didn't "get my mojo back" there were some other tests they could run.
He's going about it all backwards. Get the underlying problem (low testosterone) resolved, THEN try Viagra if you still need it. Odds are you won't.

I still had an appetite for sex, and I was still making semen. I was miserable because I was in pain from needing release, but was having difficulty getting enough of an erection to stimulate myself to orgasm.
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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby SquarePants » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:18 pm

I agree with Ledgemoor. Your doctor is approaching it backwards. Fix the hormones, and they try viagra only if it's really needed.

Also, 279 isn't low normal. It's very low. Testosterone isn't just an erection/libido hormone. It provides other essential functions, and it's not good to continue with your levels that low.

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby ghostrider » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:45 pm

How does Defy work/charge? Do they take insurance and do they have local Doctors I can visit?

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby SeekingChange » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:55 pm

Defy is mostly done by phone consultation. A much better experience than what we had with our local dr. He took a full hour to discuss results and to answer questions.
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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby Unfulfilled » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:17 am

From my understanding, insurance does NOT cover replacement therapy. However insurance may cover many if not all blood testing. And since insurance coverage varies so dramatically, you will have to check with your insurance comapny to be absolutely sure what it will and will not cover.

Since it is medical costs, i believe most flex plans and HSA’s etc can be used so at least it or some of the non covered insurance costs can be pre-tax.

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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby be64 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 pm

My insurance covers my testosterone replacement and associated tests and doctor visits subject to deductibles. HCG however is not covered.
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Re: would love some feedback on this - testosterone of 279

Postby tentsofpurple » Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:25 am

be64 wrote:My insurance covers my testosterone replacement and associated tests and doctor visits subject to deductibles. HCG however is not covered.


This is what ours covers as well. We have a $5 a month co-pay for the testosterone prescription and a $1.50 co-pay for a months worth of needles. Bloodwork is covered in full and the doctor visit (2x a year) is a specialist co-pay of $40


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