Low *free* T and symptoms

Low testosterone issues, impacts on health & marriage, treatments, etc.
Hoosier52
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:27 am

I'd say it's not a big deal as long as you can still enjoy intercourse. Extreme's on E, either way, will effect that ability. You may want to add HCG to his regimen. Some guys it helps and some it doesn't. It does help me. HCG will also drive E.

Unfulfilled
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Unfulfilled » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:30 am

I know it is difficult, but I think you need more patience. Heck it has only been a month. I would not waste money on a test until at least 2 months if not longer.

If a body has been deficient in anything, it takes the body a fair amount of time to adjust and stabilize and reach a new equilibrium.

As far as morning wood. All I know with total T about 400, is that my “wood” is often times non existent or is only maybe 50% at best for stiffness. Although I cannot remember morning wood being all that present after about age 40 (I am 51 now). I don't know if that helps you or not but is just my exlerience.
Last edited by Unfulfilled on Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

hotrod
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby hotrod » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:46 am

I am almost 60 and probably haven’t had morning wood since I was 50. My testosterone is around 287 as I recall. I’m not on any TRT, but probably should be. I have been taking daily generic Cialis 3mg as I recall. I split the pharmacy compounded pill. After starting the Cialis I have noticed lots more morning wood. I don’t think it’s everyday but most days. My erections during nighttime sex don’t last a long time, but I have difficulty climaxing because of loss of sensitivity. If my DW does OS then climaxing is easier.


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ledgemoor
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby ledgemoor » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:55 am

For me, the first signs of low testosterone are not being able to stay erect enough to finish the job. I can have morning wood and still have ED problems. When I was not having morning wood, I could barely get an erection at all. So I guess everyone is different.

He may well need his dosage upped. But give it time. Agree 100% with Unfulfilled.
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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:15 pm

Unfulfilled wrote:I know ot is difficult, but I think you need more patience. Heck it has only been a month. I would nkt waste money on a test until at least 2 months if not longer.

If a body has been deficient in anything, it takes the body a fair amount of time to adjust and stabilize and reach a new equilibrium.

As far as morning wood. All I know with total t about 400, is that my “wood” is often times non existent or is only maybe 50% at best for stiffness. Although I cannot remember morning wood being all that present after about age 40 (I am 51 now). I dont know if rhat helps you or not but is just my exlerience.



This is true, when i went on HRT, doc told me give it 3 months to find an equilibrium and then dosage adjustment. i realize that, i just have to keep asking questions just because his Endo is completely disinterested and it's all up to me to research the heck out of it and ask questions (and now order E test on our own which i will do down the road, just concerned that if it is high and it could have been to START WITH, it will affect TRT results) so i'm glad you guys are bearing w/me with the repeated questions.

i feel like i am in part my H's doctor or his biggest advocate and it's my job to help him, all he's able to do is work and sleep. (also he's on NDT therapy and next week we'll determine if he's on the right thyroid dose)

On the GOOD side, like i've noted, his libido is up and he's feeling slightly better. Last night, despite my soreness (i am now on topical vaginal estrogen cream) we had sex and i barely had to give him oral and he was ready to go despite being very tired, he wasn't rock hard but was able to penetrate me to completion which we are very happy about OF COURSE! I am very happy to give him oral to completion because of his ED (he used to take viagra) but obviously the TRT is doing something, plus the addition of Citrulline. I'm concerned that you guys think i'm trying to push him into feeling better for selfish reasons, for sure i am not, i just want him to feel better and our marriage to be blessed (which it is!) we went years having sex maybe once every couple months.

Have to add that it seems (if the couple is mutually respectful and loving toward each other) that sex really is the glue that binds. Because of our increased LM'ing, we are closer than we've ever been and he says he finally has the marriage he's dreamed of. Not really because of the sex, honestly it is because of my own awakening and jump in sex drive, it has made me more emtionally open to him, whereas before, i threw up walls.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:31 pm

reillyj

You are doing an awesome job. Your husband is blessed to have you as his ally in this. You are a true help-meet. This time next year, who knows how well-off you both will be thanks to your efforts.

I can't speak for others, but I don't mind you asking questions. I'm still learning and I appreciate others giving me the opportunity to ask questions.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:48 pm

Hoosier52 wrote:reillyj

You are doing an awesome job. Your husband is blessed to have you as his ally in this. You are a true help-meet. This time next year, who knows how well-off you both will be thanks to your efforts.

I can't speak for others, but I don't mind you asking questions. I'm still learning and I appreciate others giving me the opportunity to ask questions.



Thank you Hoosier, i appreciate it!

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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:51 pm

Ok finally, after starting TRT in mid October, we got the T results back (no free T and i'm not going to argue things with this Endo)

Testosterone went from 304 (one test result was lower than that) to 789. I don't know if Endo is going to raise the dosage slightly...this test was taken the morning before his next shot that afternoon.

Also i was going to say that he doesn't necessarily feel markedly better, he does a bit most definitely, also he's been sick constantly, as have i, since mid November. A lot of crud is going around like a constant cold and sinus infection. He's also on NDT and we're awaiting test results for that.

Good members here have assured me that he has months ahead to go to improve and i'll keep encouraging him! The sex drive is only "OK" meaning he's good with maybe once a week, right now it's been almost 2 weeks but then again we've both been sick. I do want his sex drive to increase but honestly, i just want his health to improve and for him to feel better.

Adding..Endo won't check his Estradiol. We have a follow up appt (haven't seen him since mid Oct) and i'll ask him, doubt he'll comply. He's on Zinc and DIM and i don't think he has since of high Estrogen, but i don't know.

Also, i'm pretty darned sure he has sleep apnea (before TRT) and that's something he will NOT do (he pretty much goes to the doctor when i ask him) so how does one deal with that when he will not have a sleep study done? :(

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby ledgemoor » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:58 pm

Happy new year everyone.

Hi Reillyj:

Thanks for the update.

789 is a great reading. Actual requirements vary by individual, though. You could try going up a LITTLE. But there is little doubt that he will continue to improve. Testing his estradiol is a good idea. I doubt he is high. But if he were then you wouldn't want to up the testosterone. It is $33 on LifeExtension.com now. They are having a 25% off sale.

He took the test at the recommended time. Before the injection makes sense -- but why they want it in the morning, I don't know. That's when your testosterone is typically highest. But most people have sex in the evening. I have my appt in a couple weeks and will ask the doctor. Or do one of you guys know?

Has his sleep improved any since starting TRT?
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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:04 pm

Hi Ledgemoor TY for your response

The only reason we did it in the morning is it was before his scheduled shot that day.

I can see what the Endo says if he will up it a bit.

i don't think his sleep has improved, i don't know yet. I'll ask for Estradiol, wouldn't hurt to but if not we'll get it tested ourselves. I do have him on DIM.

We have a lab in the town next to ours that does test, if we do LE's, we'd have to drive 40 minutes at least out of our way and i have panic attacks that way..yeah, not fun.

I think the next step is a sleep study. I'll have to call his insurance to see what they approve, it would be really nice if it was an in home one, i really do believe he has apnea. I hear him stop breathing all of the time. Plus he's developed major sinus issues--we both have it all of the time, we've had major water damage in our home and we live in the Pacific NW which is rife w/allergies esp mold. Too bad we aren't millionaires, it would be much easier :D

Unfulfilled
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Unfulfilled » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:45 pm

Sinus problems, low immunity and sleep problems are also all Symptoms consistent with having low thyroid. And I think you have mentioned that is currently untreated for thyroid. You might comsider getting his thyroid treated before the sleep study. You may find his apnea to decrease or be eliminated once his thyroid is properly treated. Has worked for some people but not all.

Just something to think about. Total T of nealy 800. I am only 51 and i have only have litrally half of your husbands total T!

My issue is my wife can barely handle my sex drive now. If I had a total T of 800 I would be back to cursed and frustrated sexually.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:24 pm

Hi yes he is taking NDT. About 3 grains. He started mid October.

I'm EXTREMELY frustrated now as i specifically asked his Dr 3 times to include a Free T3 in addition to TSH and Free T4. Did he? NO

His TSH came back suppressed but i told him that's to be expected with NDT and his Free T-4 was within range, maybe slightly low, it should be mid range and Free T3 in upper range but since we don't have those numbers..... ugh. His iron is fine, he takes selenium, etc., all important to thyroid function.

I guess we're going to have to take off work, take $ that we don't have and go to a lab and do it ourselves. He has an Endo appt (the one that rx's the TRT) and i'll ask him before going it ourselves but since he's disinterested anyway, i doubt it.

I haven't seen his sex drive dramatically improve which is somewhat disappointing but i'm far more concerned about him getting better, we have been sick for a long time and don't seem to be climbing out of it no matter what we do.

I'd better stop now as i realize i'm on a pity party and am angry about it!

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:48 pm

I get my blood work done in the AM because it requires a 12 hour fast and I want to eat. This is why labs are usually busiest in the AM.

As for asking your doctor for tests, I suggest that you "insist" on ordering it. It's no skin off the doctor's nose and he's not paying for it. I use Labcorp and Quest, you can request any tests you want w/o a doctor's order and have the results sent to you. I think doctors forget that they are working for us, not vice-versa.

789 is pretty good. Mine was over 1500 one time and I felt like superman. Unfortunately, my doc cut me back. He wants me between 800-1200. Last time I had it checked I was 1100. I forget free T but it was good. I have high SHBG which lowers free T. T also drives up my hematocrit. I take Grape Seed Extract and Metaformin to try to keep it down. Otherwise blood donations and I've phobic of that.

You are making good progress. Be patient.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:50 pm

Just an update.

We had an Endo appt this Monday, i cancelled it because he still has refills of the TRT and no point in really going in right now, we got his T levels back and it went from 257 to 789 (in a trough i guess, the morning before his shot that evening) but doc DID NOT order Free Testosterone. I am not asking him again for Estradiol as it's pointless.

Guys on the hypogonadism Yahoo forum told me i really need to find out his Estradiol level. Good news is i found a link to a lab 12 minutes away from us and a discounted price on testing http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/i ... ic=14059.0 and the E2 test will run roughly $50.00. I added in a Free T3 since doc refused to order that, just TSH and Free T4. Okay, whatever.

So this week he will get the Estradiol sensitive test and Free T3. I am wondering, should he get a FREE Testosterone tested also? I did email doc to see if he would order SHBG, i don't know if he will or not. So i will have to wait to see if i should add that.

Anyone have a weigh in if i should order a Free Testosterone? It comes with Total T which we just had but i know that's only part of the picture. The guys at the Yahoo G said 789 in a trough is pretty darned good so i was thinking he should be having greater results. He did say that if he looks at the big picture, he is certainly doing better than 6 months ago (he started TRT mid October).

I'm excited to finally get these test results (Estradiol and Free T3 ) as i've been waiting/waiting to see what's going on with him. Problem is now, if we find a problem with Estradiol whether low or high, what to do about it, i'm sure Endo will do nothing. I don't think he'd order a dosage increase, i don't know if that's necessary... ? I do think he probably needs to find out SHBG and then i'll have to sort this all out and play doctor again :)

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:07 pm

If he's going to get stuck with a needle (I hate blood draws), you may as well get it all done. If his E2 is high or low, it will effect his libido and performance.

If you can afford it or figure how to get your insurance to cover it, you really should switch to Defy. Your doc may be a good guy and good in other areas of medicine. but he's a not up to speed on TRT. I had and have ALL of these tests done for Defy from the start and every 3-6 months thereafter. He should also have his hematocrit and DHEA checked. Especially hematocrit. T will always raise it and you don't want him stroking out or having a cardiac event.

Again, your DH is lucky to have a DW supporting him like you do.

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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:38 pm

Thank you! Well, he has Premera HMO MEDICARE and i highly doubt they will cover any Defy orders, we have a local naturopath that specializes in TRT and they can sometimes indirectly get insurance Co's to pay esp for labs but i called and asked them and because it's Medicare HMO...NOPE.

He does take DHEA 50 mg (split into two doses, now just read one dose should be nightime) for a very long time (don't know his levels but i've been giving it to him along with Optizinc) and his Hgb/Hct are: 14.0 and 41.0 which are low normal per lab ranges. Since he has cirrhosis (non alcoholic but treated for Hep C) his levels are always on the lower side. I suppose i should just order another T test and that includes Free T. It's only around $30

Also TY again for the support!

Unfulfilled
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Unfulfilled » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:53 pm

Any Dr. Who prescribes Natural dessicates thyroid medicine (or any T3 medicine) and does not test for Free T3 borders in mallractice in my opinion. Completely unacceptable! The fact he will also not test for estradiol, or free testosterone while on Testosterone therapy is another sign.

Both are signs to me to find a new doctor!

Just my opinion.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby ManOnMission » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:55 pm

I am a 45 year old male and started having low T count about 5 or so years ago. I go to a place call the Low T Center. They checked my numbers and they give me a weekly injection. They re check my numbers every 3 months and every week I talk to a Nurse Practitioner about how I feel. I was in the low 300’s but now I’m in the 900-1000 range. They also have me on DIM and an HCG shot to keep my estrogen levels down. I feel great now, my drive is high, my depression is gone and my Foggy Headedness is gone. It’s not cheap but my insurance does cover it. Hope this helps.


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ledgemoor
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby ledgemoor » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:46 pm

Glad to hear that things are going well for you.

What is your target estrodial number?
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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:15 pm

That's awesome ManOnMission, good to hear! Also good to hear they have you on DIM, i give it to H but also for other reasons, hopefully to help his system w/xeno estrogens from the environment plus his chemical exposures, owner of an auto/body shop. I know about HCG but i thought that was just for testicular health and fertility which i absolutely do not want (the fertility part!)

Just an FYI for anybody--i took H off Flomax (obviously with his permission) for a trial period to see if it helped him feel better, he's on it for BPH. Had stuffy nose, back ache and i thought libido was low for his T numbers. It seems to be working, he has more libido off of it, today i started him on the Tadalafil Peptides mentioned on this forum


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