Low *free* T and symptoms

Low testosterone issues, impacts on health & marriage, treatments, etc.
ledgemoor
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby ledgemoor » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:02 am

You can order Estrodiol or most any test yourself. Try lifeextension.com and discountedlabs.com.

When I switched from 1x per week to 2x, I simply started taking a half-dose when my next weekly was due, and carried on from there. Ditto when I went back to 1x per week. Just did a full dose when my next biweekly was due, then went a full dose the next week etc.

The heart attack risk is WAY OVERBLOWN. Yes, he could be subject to greater risk at first when, for the first time in years, he feels like exercising and sex. But long-term, it will lower his risk. For me a heart attack would not be the worst-case scenario. We had a serious family discussion about this sort of thing. I told them that if I'm ever too far gone to have sex with my wife, just let me go :D.

reillyj wrote:It would be a very very nice bonus if our sex life was blessed in the meantime, there was a period of about 10 yrs where it was once every 4 months maybe and that was 15 yrs ago! Now it's maybe once a month, well you can see why. So i'm asking God to help him feel a lot better and redeem the time the Enemy has taken from us.

Well, whatever happens, his fingers and mouth work fine. He needs to put some effort into being a married man. Asking God with you....

Anxiously awaiting progress reports!
Everything you ever wanted in life is just outside your comfort zone (Jamie Lee Curtis)

Unfulfilled
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Unfulfilled » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:59 am

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that the T ranges are not required to be age adjusted.

How ludicrous is it to have a single Range to cover men who are 20 years old and 90 years old and know that T levels vary as a man ages.

Heart and stroke rates have not really changed much over modern times. Despite diet recommendations and even statin drugs to lower cholesterol etc. yet the societal levels of testosterone and sperm count has dramatically been in steady decline for decades. I do NOT buy into the fact that adding Testosterone increases the risk of Heart attack and stroke.

The western and American diet and lifestyle sees these significant declines in T levels and sperm counts. Not seen in say native peoples in the jungle etc. Now this could be hypothesized many ways but two of them are : 1) Evolution and the fact that we in america no longer have to procreate at high levels to sustain the population, and we also don't have to go into the bush and fight off lions and tigers. That we evolved to not needing as high of testosterone levels to survive. 2) something in our way of life, diet, pollution, chemicals, quality of food, pesticides, EMF’s or any other individual or in combination results in depressing testosterone levels.

I tend to lean towards #2.

How can restoring ANY level in the body to a “normal” range be so disastrously harmful? We and the medical community does NOT look at ANY other thing the same way. Think about it. If you are extremely low in iron and suffering symptoms, they will immediately prescribe iron and get you into the normal range and relieve symptoms. If any orher level is out of whack it is assumed that you are MORE at risk of negative health effects if you remain sympathetic and levels out of whack!

Yet someone who is low on thyroid or any other hormone such as testosterone or estrogen, the doctors are irrationally afraid of getting someone into a reasonable normal level. WHY IS THAT? Why is hormone replacement therapy so different? Why would “they” think that your overall health will be WORSE by supplementing to simply bring you to a normal level? It is irrational.
Last edited by Unfulfilled on Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:05 am

Ok, if his doc doesn't order Estradiol, i guess we'll have to do it ourselves. But we're stuck w/what docs we have available due to insurance.

Believe me, there is NO WAY we can pay out of pocket for any of this... so i'll have to push and hope that they'll cooperate. I didn't care for the doc, he was nice enough and rx'd TRT but didn't explain anything about monitoring E2, or when he'll have his next test to determine if he's on the right amount of TRT. Only thing i was happy about is that he agreed about once weekly, i'll try for twice weekly but i don't know if i'll be able to get a shot in by Sunday (he had his first on Wed night) because waiting for insurance approval and for it to be filled....

I don't have any clue about when to test for E2 assuming that's all we'll be testing or when to retest his T levels. UGHHH.

He had his first shot about 4 p.m. yesterday and so far i don't think he's had any symptom improvement at all and yes i know to be patient. He's on serious pain meds, has cirrhosis of the liver (managed) and has just had a heavy hand dealt to him, i know i should resign myself to things taking the long way around as they usually do w/us (cue tiny violin) but it sure would be nice to have prayers answered as quickly as possible :D

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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:22 am

Unfulfilled wrote:I think it is absolutely ridiculous that the T ranges are not required to be age adjusted.

I could not agree MORE. Maybe they're trying to kill us off (that is an entirely different subject which i won't go into because of politics and this isn't the forum) but i think they pretty much want senior citizens to die off as soon as possible.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:25 pm

You won't see any improvement for maybe several weeks. Like you said, be patient.

One strategy you might follow is to get your meds through your current Doctor so your insurance pays for them, but follow a more up-to-date and effective protocol for administering them (i.e. Defy Medical, ExcelMale, etc.). Ask your doc to prescribe it that way. If he's unwilling, go ahead and do it anyway. Lower doses twice a week are safer than large does once every week or every 2 weeks, anyway. You're doing no harm. I have learned to not even tell my care providers that I am doing TRT. Most freak out and have little or no knowledge on it. It saves me a lot of brain damage and fruitless efforts to explain. Just a thought.

FYI - Some people with Defy DO get their insurance companies to pay for their meds.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:31 pm

That's what i'm going to do! He was rx'd a 3 month supply of T and i just picked it up which means i can give the next (half) dose on Sunday morning, i think. Like i said, he was given 100 mg Wed at docs office so i can give 50 mg this Sunday and the next 50 mg on Wednesday and so on and so forth... would rather do it that way than have his E2 all over the place, i still have to figure out when to test for that after we get started and also hoping his GP will be willing to order, i think he will...that's one thing i really didn't like about that Endo (besides telling us his thyroid wasn't "that low") is he didn't discuss at all about E2 or controlling it or when to get the next BW done.

Also i will be running out of needles if we inject twice weekly, they gave me a 3 month supply (for once weekly)

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:19 pm

He should have a complete blood work-up in 3 months. Need to check hematocrit levels as T will raise it. Go to Walgreens ang get Super Thin II syringes. About $20 for a box of 100. I use 20 gauge, 5/16 inch in the hip.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:45 pm

Thank you! I'm wondering about E2 levels? He hasn't had those checked...should i worry right now? Are most of you that are on TRT on AI's? Oh, what is hilarious is, his insurance just approved the use of Androgel and they had denied it, this was the day after the TRT shot! Well from what i understand, the shot is better.....

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:10 pm

I was on AI but it drove my sensitive estradiol down to 16. Should be between 30-40. The nurse from Defy told me to stop it and only take it when I feel symptomatic. A LOT of guys on TRT have stopped taking it per ExcelMale. It should be checked however as too low or too high are both not good for a man (loss of libido, gyno, hot flashes, weight gain, osteo, etc)

I urge you to check out the ExcelMale website. VERY good information and very helpful for those just starting TRT. The people on there are very knowledgable. Do a search first as most questions have already been asked and answered.

Yes, injections are much better and much cheaper.

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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:24 pm

I've been on that site and done extensive reading and probably will throughout my H's TRT... it seemed like if one is on AI's, they advocate very low doses and don't wait for symptoms, they like everything steady and status quo. I'll have to push the doc for at least an initial level and hope he isn't a jerk about it. I still cannot believe that Endo wouldn't have treated my husband for his low thyroid.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:47 pm

i don't know if i should make a separate post for this but i gave my H his first T shot on Sunday... i'm doing split dosages (2x a week) and it's kind of hard doing it that way, doing the shot is easy enough (the aspirating part scares me) but measuring the T out in a small dose like that 25mg is not easy, it was really hard for my eyes anyway, to see that small of amount in the syringe but i imagine it'll all work out... i just don't want his E2, etc. to spike and drop.

Am i doing the right thing or making it more of a big deal by giving it 2x a week instead of one? HE'S good w/it, i just want to make sure i'm not making things more difficult.

AFA symptom relief, i don't know yet, haven't really asked him if he's seen any real changes.. This was his 2nd shot, first was 100 mg at the docs (on a Wed) and i did 1/2 shot on Sunday and another one tomorrow....

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:42 pm

You're doing it right with shots every 3 1/2 days. What size needles are you using? I stopped aspirating long ago - back when I was using 1/2 inch needles and injecting in the thigh. I use the hip now with a 5/16 needle and you never get deep enough to hit a vein. Even if you did, the T will cause shortness of breath for a while, but nothing serious. It will pass from all the accounts I've read.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:31 pm

OK. i think it's 23 gauge to inject? In the upper quadrant of the glutes. Even though the doc rx'd the needles, i THINK we had to pay for them out of pocket because our bill w/testosterone came to around $30 for a 3 months supply...well i will be running out of needles because of using twice as many so i'll probably have to buy them anyway...do i need an RX for needles?

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:42 am

23ga. is huge and painful. When I used 25 ga. x 1/2 inch I always bled. I use 29 ga. x 5/16 I get them at Walgreens. No script necessary. Or, you can order them online. The ones I get are used for insulin injections. I inject HCG in the belly and no pain. Same for T in the hip. I alternate from hip to hip. Right side on Wed. Left side on Sat. $30 for T is cheap. I pay $68 plus $15 shipping.

ledgemoor
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby ledgemoor » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:40 am

Doing it twice a week may be unnecessary, but it isn't hurting anything. It won't be that difficult after you've done it a few times. Agree with Hoosier on the 25-ga needles. Use up the 23 ga if you want, then switch to 25 ga. I posted about that previously in this thread.

Are most of you that are on TRT on AI's?
...
i just don't want his E2, etc. to spike and drop.
I've never taken any AIs. Don't borrow trouble. Wait and see if estrogen will be a problem or not. TRT seems to be easier in older guys. It seems to be the younger ones that have estrogen problems.

I aspirate, but mainly to get the air out of the needle so that it forms a bubble at the top. The bubble will help push the last little bit of testosterone into me.
Everything you ever wanted in life is just outside your comfort zone (Jamie Lee Curtis)

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:09 pm

I use 29 gauge or 30 gauge. The 25 gauge always made me bleed.

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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:49 pm

Sorry, i looked and it's 22 g.

I'll probably have to order out of pocket because i'm using more than was Rx'd (once weekly).

Anyone have no issues doing just once a week? i have no problems at all doing twice but as always, wondering if i'm making it harder than it should be... we really wouldn't know w/o BW, i think, and his symptoms i guess... still researching what they would be.

He has had 150 mg total (100 mg at office and 50 mg Sunday and another tonight) and i think his libido is finally starting to respond which is awesome (now if *I* could overcome my problems with O'ing..ugh) so i can really look forward to what the coming weeks/months are going to hold for us.

plus getting his thyroid treated. And i so much appreciate your male input on this forum.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby Hoosier52 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:39 pm

Here's some: https://www.healthwarehouse.com/easytou ... gKFKPD_BwE

31 gauge is very thin. May take a bit longer to load the syringe. I draw air into the syringe (same amount of T I will draw), inject the air into the T bottle, then pull back the plunger a bit beyond the prescribed dosage, then push out what I don't need back into the bottle.

When I'm drawing the T, I rest the bottle with the syringe upside down on a folded up towel in the corner of the sink counter top and let it "load." Usually only takes a minute or two. If it's cold, the T will draw slower. You can warm it up first in some warm water or hold it in you hands to make ti flow easier.

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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby ledgemoor » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:40 pm

I think Hoosier is injecting subcutaneously and Mr. RiellyJ is doing intermuscular. Subq uses a much shorter insulin-type needle and therefore can draw thru a narrower gauge. I don't think the 1" needle recommended for intermuscular is even available in 31 ga.

I started with intermuscular. I tried subq but it did not seem as effective to me, so am back to IM.

By the way, the boron is working great for me. Erections have been a little more frequent, and always 100% rock-hard. Not much inbetween :-). I am still taking 6 mg/day. Thanks for that! DW thanks you too.
Everything you ever wanted in life is just outside your comfort zone (Jamie Lee Curtis)

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reillyj
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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Postby reillyj » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:41 pm

Yes, we're injecting IM. And... i think it's starting to work, he's.... after me more, LOL.

I take 6 mg Boron also and it does work, i give H about 9 mg, i hope your wife considers taking it as there is the studies done on menopausal women and its benefits!


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