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Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:15 pm
by Unfulfilled
Whay is DIM, what does it do? Is it prescription or over the counter supplement?

Re: RE: Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:25 pm
by caseyatbat
It is a supplement. You can get it on Amazon

Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:29 am
by Unfulfilled
Thanks, but what does or what os DIM supposed to do?

What blood tests result, or symptoms would a person have that would persuade a them that taking DIM is a good idea?

Are there any downside risk of taking DIM if not really needed in what it is supposed to help with?

Is there any advantage of takimg DIM if not on testosterone replacement? Or estradiol is not high?

Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:00 am
by Hoosier52

Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:51 am
by reillyj
UPDATE on H's test results.

A Total T was tested right after Christmas. He shoots SUN and WED. So this test was taken the morning before WED's shot.

It was 789 in a trough.

Since doc is being a pain, we had labs done ourselves last week which included Estradiol (first test ever) and Total AND FREE T

He had the BW done on THURS. We delayed his WED shot because we couldn't get to the lab until Thursday so this was really a trough.

Total T: 560
Free T: 3.1 (horrible)
Estradiol: 24.7

He's taking 100 mg per week which is standard. I'll have to show these tests to the Endo and idk what his response would be since we've taken it upon ourselves.

I have no idea what to do about FREE T and raising it.... :(

Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:29 pm
by ledgemoor
Well, good news on the Estrodiol at least.

What are the units and normal range of the Free Testosterone? What method was used to measure it (direct or something else?). The readings and the normal range varies significantly from lab to lab. Apparently there is no standard test for it. I was searching the web and found this, which confirms what I have learned in the school of hard knocks:

Here is someone who claims to be able to treat low Free, but are closed-lipped about how they go about it. ... ing-low-t/

And here is another clinic that claims to be able to accurately measure Free.

This article, which I have not read in its entirety, seems to be the most informative. ... _shbg.aspx It says wrote:So how do you know if your free testosterone is low? It starts with a simple test from your doctor. You sometimes have to ask for this, as some doctors just stick with total testosterone. Generally, free testosterone is given as a percentage of total testosterone, the typically acceptable range according to the lab listed as 1.5%-2.5%.
So if this is correct and the units in his test are in percent, then he is pretty good.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that everyone agrees that free testosterone is important, but no one really seems to know how to measure it, much less what normal is. BE64 or one or more of the other guys are big on free testosterone levels. Maybe they can shed some light on it. Me, I have had it tested several times. The readings are all over the place, and even the doctor doesn't know what to make of it. However, total and free do track together for me. If my total is low, my free is low, and if total is high, free is high.

Did they do an SGBH test? Not that I'd know how to interpret the results. But if it is high, that would explain the low free. How to lower it, I have no idea.

The good news here is that the testosterone does seem to be improving things for him.

Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:45 pm
by reillyj
Hi Ledgemoor, TY so much for replying.

His starting numbers BEFORE TRT were
Total: 304
Free: 23.3 lab ranges : 35.0-155.0

DIFFERENT LAB THIS TIME since we had to order them ourselves. The Free T was flagged:

Total: 560
Free: 3.1 ranges : 6.6-18.1

Yes the test was certainly taken in a trough.

Endo refuses to test SGBH and frankly i'm sick of him but we need him because we cannot keep paying for things out of pocket.

His thyroid we are still struggling a lot with. He's on NDT and his Free T3 came back high so we have to figure that one out, i'm the only one doing this because his GP only will test T4 and we had to pay out of pocket for Free T3. So yeah..

he's really not doing well, not that much different than before all of this. He's always very tired. He probably has sleep apnea and that's another mountain both physically and financially we have to climb.
Of course he feels a bit better and then we've both been constantly sick which is the norm around here, unfortunately and always behind the 8-ball financially. I realize adrenals, cortisol, etc. etc. could come into play but i am sick myself and really struggling to try to help him with all of this. IDK, maybe the Endo will raise the dose slightly. He does have non alcoholic liver cirrhosis from (treated) Hep C and he works in a toxic environment which cannot be helped.

Off my lament....

Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:52 pm
by ledgemoor
Ok, I got mine done at Labcorp too. My method was Direct. My reading is 28.8 pg/ml, but the normal range is listed as 7.2- 24.0. So apparently it varies not only from lab to lab, but from batch to batch. His 6.6 - 18.1 range is in the same ballpark as mine, but still doesn't give one a lot of confidence in the test.

Re: Low *free* T and symptoms

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:42 pm
by reillyj
UPDATE on H....

Went to a different doctor (disinterested Endo) to a Naturopath, this is after 5 months or so of TRT therapy.

Naturopath says he's willing to take over the RX but i was a little disappointed that he didn't find H's numbers a bit too low and OK upping his dosage.

His T numbers are pretty consistently in the 500's. One tested 700 but his free T is always low, below normal (30's.) Naturopath said that's just a snapshot and numbers don't mean all that much which i do understand if you're talking about a man feeling good and being adequately treated but from extensive talks at another TRT forum, he's being under treated.

The forum also suspects he has low SGBH which may be preventing him from absorbing the TRT well... we shoot twice weekly and they suggested going to 3x and possibly SubQ instead of IM...BUT...when i posted the amount he's taking they were pretty shocked at the low dose.

He gets 0.5 mg/ml a week ( i divide that into 2 injections) so that's a total of 200 mg of T a month. They all said that is an extremely low dosage and most are doing double which explains his low numbers so i again emailed the Naturopath and explained to him we would like the dosage raised. His argument was more micro-management with a higher dose but i am thinking so what at this point, if it means that then we will do it especially if he's under dosed and it will be status quo if we don't do anything...

One thing of concern is the rising PSA. At the start of TRT his Urologist gave the green light, he does have BPH but Urologist found no lumps at all. Now after over 5 months in, his PSA has raised substantially although not outside normal limits and i do know things can influence the results like sexual activity, etc., so we are getting it retested. I am LOATHE to continue a search for another doctor as it all involved DOLLARS $$$$ but what say you all about that dosage? He feels OK and just this last month has been feeling the effects but i know he could definitely feel better

EDIT: OK Naturopath confirmed he IS on 400 mg month. i had determined that 0.5 ml = 50mg when it actually equals 100 mg weekly. Still at a quandry of how to raise those numbers if doc doesn't rx a bit higher dose.