Monogamy

What limits should we set before marriage?
a_bushel_and_a_peck
Twin size
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 6:17 pm

Postby a_bushel_and_a_peck » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:14 pm

let me clarify what I mean by "things he may have enjoyed" I mean, for example if he liked anal with her or something along those lines...and I wouldn't want that myself. But then I would want to please him but then the only reason he would have experience with that is because he did those things with her. But...that's not info I have or want to have from him. I don't feel like I could or should ask him those things, but yet they would come out later. If I knew any more details than the basic yeah, we had sex--regularly, I would drive myself crazy. I know he's trying to protect me. Why am I not secure in his love even though I know he loves me? Tell me I'm crazy and I'll drive him wild because his desire is for me for being the amazing woman God has made ME. Actually, he needs to be the one to tell me that. I can go on and on for hours about all I feel, trying to connect to him emotionally but I'm not getting him to be able to understand the amount of reassurance I need that I am truly his. That need in me was already so great because of emotional abandonnement as a child and now having to deal with what feels like another betrayl when he didn't even know me. Would he be content to have me for the rest of his life?

rose_of_sharon_2
Double
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:38 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby rose_of_sharon_2 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:41 am

I suggest you get some personal counseling to deal with these issues. To me, it seems you are having a lot of trouble with the fact that he isn't a virgin. The last post says it most. The whole abandonement issue is one I know all too well. I was abandoned by my ex-h and by my parents, in a different way. I struggled for a long time with this issue. I sought out counseling and it has helped tremendously. You are putting a lot of stock into your virginity and into the fact he isn't. If you don't work this out now, before marriage, you are going to have trouble in marriage. It will nag at you. Get it settled now.
Get into counseling. Eventually you both should be doing some good premarital counseling and can discuss this together there.

Praying for you.
Rose of Sharon, Bright Morning Star...that is who He is....I am His child....

User avatar
Kilarin
Under the stars
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: South of Ft. Worth Texas

Postby Kilarin » Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:04 am

a_bushel_and_a_peck wrote:I don't feel like I could or should ask him those things

I can certainly understand why you might not want to many details about his previous relationship(s). But a good long serious talk about sex, what you expect, what you fear, etc, is a really good idea.

a_bushel_and_a_peck wrote:I'm not getting him to be able to understand the amount of reassurance I need that I am truly his.

This is something you should certainly be addressing. I agree with rose_of_sharon_2, Christian Pre-Marital counseling is a great idea for everyone. And since you are having some extra issues here, I think it is even more important in your case. You need to work these things out BEFORE you tie the knot. Pray continually, and we'll be praying for you as well!

---

Eleutheros gave us an excellent testimony on how it can take time, effort, prayer, and a lot of the Holy Spirit to work your way past previous sexual partners and into a solid pair bond with the new. Having sex CHANGES us, alters our tastes, desires, and habits, links us to that person. It makes connecting to a new partner more difficult.

And the suffering a_bushel_and_a_peck is going through right now should also serve as a warning. If you think that losing your virginity before you get married won't hurt anything or anyone, just read her messages. Her fiance didn't intend to hurt her, or anyone, but he has.

Staying a virgin before marriage IS WORTH IT.

And good news for those that have had previous partners and are now trying to bond with a new. As Eleutheros story shows, God CAN help you through these problems and into another great relationship! It's an added difficulty, but it's not the end of the world. Our God is big enough to take us through the fire and out to victory on the other side.

inChristalone79

To: Bushel

Postby inChristalone79 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:18 am

Hello, Bushel,

My situation is not unlike yours, except that I am a 28 year old virgin. I believe that every year that passes the likely hood of finding fellow virgins diminishes exponentially, yet, I really don't care, and I'll be honest, neither should you.

On the fh non-virgin issue, I am in the same situation. My fh was a christian, though an immature one with no discipleship or godly influences. In reality, it's a big deal on one hand, and so not a big deal on the other.

The big deal - it might make us a little more uncomfortable. Though, I can only imagine that THINKING and TALKING about it regularly only makes it worse than it needs to be. If you're going to marry this man, and you do choose to marry this man, seriously, stop thinking about it. Yeah, it might bother you sometimes, when it does, choose to not think about it. I certainly can't imagine why you'd want details either. Some things are better left unsaid. I have chosen to continue on a relationship with my fh; we are marrying next month; and I have no intention of bringing these issues into our marriage. They are done.. yeah, that's basically it. They are done.

The not so big deal - Sin once repented of might have consequences, but, dear, we live in the age of God's amazing grace. Sin once repented of is gone - GONE - forever. I am positive that you have sinned in your lifetime. There's a good possibility that you've done something that would be considered sinful against God and your future spouse before meeting him (such as lust perhaps, or doing some other activity with another young man.) I, myself, had never even held a man's hand before I met my fiance, yet, I certainly could not claim innocense when it came to my thoughts.

Our sin is no better than anyone elses, and we must come away from thinking that somehow a person who has sinned in a sexual way is somehow less good than we are who have not. The sin is different and the consequences different, but, seriously, we're all dirty rotten sinners deserving of hell. Can you get any lower than that?

Perhaps what is more important in this situation - I'm going to be strong worded here, so prepare yourself - is to get a better understanding of yourself. Perhaps there is some lurking pride that makes you feel as though you are better than some other sinner. I could be wrong, but it is a possibility. Seriously seek the Lord and ask Him to help you come to the place of seeing yourself as you really are - helpless, terrible, rotten, and capable of even the worst of sins, and you might find yourself a little less hard on others.

I'm not speaking theoretically here. The Lord has spent the last two years humbling me to come to the exact place that I talk about above - to realize just how horrible I am.

I know how you feel; I really do. But if you're going to marry this man, let it go.

Christina :)

a_bushel_and_a_peck
Twin size
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 6:17 pm

Postby a_bushel_and_a_peck » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:36 pm


Staying a virgin before marriage IS WORTH IT.




That’s really all I’m trying to say. DON”T think it doesn’t matter, don’t think oh, well, we’re going to be married anyway, or that you’ve waited “long enough” (long enough is when you both have wedding bands on your fingers and have made a commitment before God in the presence of others). Make sure your children know what a precious thing they have and not to let it go so easily. And don’t, above all, think that other things that are not intercourse don’t count as sex. I believe you can very well have “sex” with all clothes remaining on. I wouldn’t be having to process through all this now if he had waited then. Does that make it some horrible sin God couldn’t (or hasn’t ) washed away? Of course not. It’s just a particular type of sin that WILL inevitably have effects much more far reaching than ever imagined. It’s NOT just a sin between two people against their own bodies and God’s will…it will effect the “one” you promise your forever to, your children, your parents, your peers—the list goes on. So as much as the one who has done the wrong needs your forgiveness and support and the knowledge that that won’t be held against him any longer, the one, wronged, too, needs to realize that her God is big enough to take care of her needs and will strengthen her to look past the past. We should all take Eleutheros’ story as a wonderful encouragement of what God can work (although,, not immediately) to bring two truly together as one, when it’s according to his purpose.

User avatar
Kilarin
Under the stars
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: South of Ft. Worth Texas

Postby Kilarin » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:58 pm

a_bushel_and_a_peck wrote: It’s NOT just a sin between two people against their own bodies and God’s will…it will effect the “one” you promise your forever to, your children, your parents, your peers—the list goes on...

...God is big enough to take care of her needs and will strengthen her to look past the past

Amen! And thank you for your testimony. It's not easy to come online and spill your guts when you are hurting, but I believe that your story may help others. Thank you, I'll be keeping you in my prayers, remember me in yours!

a_bushel_and_a_peck
Twin size
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 6:17 pm

Postby a_bushel_and_a_peck » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:32 pm

Certainly! Thank you for your prayers as well :)

Narniaman
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:10 pm

I'm curious. . . . .

Postby Narniaman » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:22 pm

Would you feel the same way if you were marrying a man who was widowed? In other words, he was very sexually experienced, but only with the woman to whom he was married.

Would you still wonder how many times they "did it"? Would you be concerned about the other things you mentioned?

Now making a small assumption here that your DF wasn't a Christian and now is, are you justified in your worries if, indeed, he is a new creation in Christ?

Augustina

Postby Augustina » Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:25 am

This thread touches very close to my heart for many reasons.

First, my husband and I waited to have sex with each other until we were married. It was such a wonderful blessing for both of us and our sex life has been an amazing, awesome, blessed journey. We have said to each other how grateful we are to God for his gift to us.

Second, both of us had committed sexual sin before we met each other. My husband had in fact been with many, many women before me. I had not been with many people, but I was previously married. Unfortunately, my first husband did not want to be married to me and was unfaithful. We divorced after several years of marriage.

When my husband and I met each other, we were honest about our past mistakes and recognized that God had something else in store for us. So we made a commitment to wait for sex until marriage with each other, even though we had not done so in the past with other people.

Some of his friends pulled the, "Don't you even want to test drive the car before you buy it?" I told him to tell his friends that you don't need to test drive a Ferrari to know it is a Ferrari.

We were committed to waiting for each other. It was surprisingly easy (thanks to God!), even though we were both sexually experienced. IT WAS WORTH IT. So many times we have just talked and been thankful that we waited and that God gave us this blessing for our relationship.

Third, marrying someone with a sexual past can be very heartbreaking at times. As I said, my husband had many sexual partners. I worried a lot before we married the same things you are worrying about. Would I measure up? What if he did things with me that he did with other girls? Would he be thinking about past partners? Would I be special? How could I possibly be special, given the people who had been with him before me? I actually seriously considered not marrying him because I was so upset about all of this stuff.

But God told me directly in prayer that my husband was the one for me. I knew that if God was saying this to me that He would give me the grace, forgiveness and peace to be married to a man with a past like my husband's.

That does not mean that it has been easy.

I have asked some questions about his past. There are some questions that perhaps it is better to know. I have received some answers that have given me a peace of mind. However, I have also learned of some things and have images in my head of him with other people as a result of questions I shouldn't have asked. At a certain point in time, I made the decision that if I really, really wanted to know the answer to something, I would NOT ask. I would pray privately about it first, give it at least a day, then if I had reassurance from God, if I still felt the need to know, I would ask. Since I made the decision to take that perspective, I have pretty much stopped asking questions.

I've stopped asking for two main reasons. One, in reality, most of the answers are not things I really want to know. Maybe I'm curious about them, but do I really WANT to know details of his former life? In almost all cases, the answer is no. Two, I've learned over time that those past experiences don't really matter. He chose to be married to me. He is choosing to be sexually exclusive with me.

It has been a process. We have both had to heal from the sexual mistakes we made. One of the most important things I have done in this journey is to forgive him. It was easy for me to be self-righteous because I didn't have his, er, track record, but he is still ultimately God's imperfect child, just as I am. I have my own weaknesses and sins.

Another thing I have done (as perhaps silly as it sounds) is to ask God to "wipe our memories." I have asked God to erase from my mind past experiences with previous partners. I have asked God to erase my husband's mind of his experiences, too. It has been remarkable the work God has done in that area.

Last, and most importantly, your husband is choosing to be with you. Not only that, but I assume if you two are marrying, God created you to be with EACH OTHER. NOBODY can compare to you in that way. NOTHING is more perfect than what God has created. That is something that also has given me much peace and joy.

As the initial post said, too, over time, you become conditioned to your lover. You learn what they like and they learn what you like. He will become conditioned to enjoy you fully. It sounds like your fiance is a good guy. He loves you. Chances are excellent that he will only be thinking of you when you two are together that way. And YES, you ARE and will ALWAYS be special to him because God created a desire in his heart for you--that is a place that only you can fill. Period.

My husband and I have talked about this very thing. Though we had past experiences with other people, it's like God renewed us both. We were "born-again" virgins. I know it's not the same and I'm not trying to minimize what you have saved. But God can make your husband clean, new and virginal again for you.

Even though we both had those experiences, we have said that we didn't even KNOW sex COULD be like this. When you are with the one God intended for you, sex becomes holy, perfected, innocent and full of freedom from inhibitions or boundaries. You are still giving your husband an incredible, precious gift--a gift that God gave to you.

Given the things I have learned in my life, I am completely convinced that God DID in fact design sex to be enjoyed the way we are enjoying it now. None of the sex that we have had before was satisfying in this way. None of it even came close. I know without a doubt that God has this for you two as well. He has victory over past mistakes, doubts, insecurities and fears. He has given you an irreplacable part in your future husband's life. Nobody will ever compare to that.

I wish you the very best in your upcoming marriage. It will be an adventure for sure.

proverbs_31_30

Postby proverbs_31_30 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:30 pm

Thank you so much for that last post. It was something I needed to hear today.

a_bushel_and_a_peck
Twin size
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 6:17 pm

Postby a_bushel_and_a_peck » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:21 pm

Yes, THANK you ::cb :D

User avatar
Kilarin
Under the stars
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: South of Ft. Worth Texas

Postby Kilarin » Mon May 18, 2009 4:06 pm

Esquire article: Do I Love My Wife? An Investigative Report

I ran into this on slashdot. I'm not entirely certain what kind of magazine esquire is, but there isn't any nudity in this article.

A married man agrees to sit underneath an fMRI (short for functional magnetic resonance imaging) machine and let the scientists examine how his brain responds to pictures of his wife, and Angelina Jolie. Very specifically, they are going to measure which he thinks is more sexy, his wife or Angelina.

To his wife's complete surprise, she won. Her husband's brain kicks off sexy fireworks when he looks at a picture of her. More fireworks than when he looks at Angelina. More fireworks than even when he looks at Angelina and deliberately tries to lust after her.

I think it's significant that the author chose Angelina as the "sexy" model for this test. If you look at the pictures of his wife, there are some similarities between her and Angelina. We don't judge our wives by super models, we think super models are sexy if they happen to resemble our wives.

I feel that this supports what I was trying to say in the first post in this thread, (and what others have said since). Men (and Women) LEARN their sexual response through Pavlovian conditioning. We really DO find our wives to be the sexiest women on earth. Every time we make love to our wives, every time we share orgasms and other erotic experiences with someone, we are teaching our brains that THIS is sexy, THIS is what I like, THIS is what I will respond to the next time it comes along.

And this re-emphasizes the danger of promiscuity and, to a lesser but still dangerous degree, pornography. If you train yourself to respond sexually to MANY different kinds of stimulus, you will have a harder time building that strong fixed response in your brain to one person. The kind of response that improves, strengthens, and enhances a marriage.

God requires strict monogamy, NOT to spoil our fun, but because he knows that it will help us build brains that explode with a sexual response for our spouse that no other person, be they co-worker or super model, can ever match.

Ulysses61
Queen bed
Posts: 115
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:52 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): December 14th, 1979
Gender: Female

Postby Ulysses61 » Wed May 20, 2009 12:25 pm

I teach grad students in Southern California, generally considered a sexually-liberated, liberal, den of iniquity. My students are generally between the ages of 23-26, though I have a sprinkling of older and slightly younger students.

I have 55-70 students in each class and teach five classes. Believe me, there are virgins out there, more than you would think. My students and I occasionally discuss sexual issues during office hours and during passing periods and virginity does exist among this age group. A surprising number are male.

User avatar
Kilarin
Under the stars
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: South of Ft. Worth Texas

Postby Kilarin » Thu May 21, 2009 7:17 pm

Ulysses61 wrote:Believe me, there are virgins out there

I'm glad to hear it. Our media and society tries to present the picture that virginity before marriage is impossible in todays society. It's just not true.

I hope we can continue to present the counter message that virginity IS possible, and that it provides distinct and definite advantages in the marriage bed.

User avatar
Kilarin
Under the stars
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: South of Ft. Worth Texas

Re: Monogamy

Postby Kilarin » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:53 pm

http://www.livescience.com/23500-why-men-love-breasts.html
An interesting article. It cites recent studies that back up how nipple stimulation causes the release of the hormone oxytocin. And ocytocin:
Article wrote:focuses the woman's attention on her sexual partner, strengthening her desire to bond with this person


The scientist believes that humans have developed a pattern of treating breasts as an important part of sex "because we form monogamous relationships". And breast stimulation helps a woman to bond to her partner.

The scientist is coming from an evolutionary point of view, but I think his findings fit in perfectly with what the Bible tells us about sex. They re-emphasize how important pair bonding is to our sexuality, and why sex works best when we follow God's design and save sex for marriage and marriage only.

It ALSO backs up how important it is not to limit the definition of sex to penis in vagina intercourse. Breast play is an IMPORTANT part of the bonding experience. Couples who think they can get to "second base" before marriage without causing any harm are ignoring, not only God's word, but the scientific evidence. Bonding begins with all kinds of sexual activity, not just intercourse itself. Breast play and ANY kind of genital contact are best reserved for marriage.

ScottNM

Re: Monogamy

Postby ScottNM » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:13 am

"In these species, the primary purpose of sex is NOT reproduction. (Not denying that reproduction IS one of the purposes, but its not the PRIMARY purpose) The primary purpose is Bonding, strengthening ties between individuals."

Where do you get this from? Why does the male inject seed in every sexual orgasm/encounter? Why would God do that? Obviously your going to have alot of babies or put a woman on contraceptives, many of which have side effects. Until recently many ended up in large families. Thank God for birth control, I guess. Yes, I am one who thinks sex is God's joke on mankind but then again, He is holy and never wrong but you cannot argue these facts I mentioned.

User avatar
luvmygirls
Under the stars
Posts: 5770
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:39 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): June 25th, 1995
Gender: Male
Location: at the feet of Jesus

Re: Monogamy

Postby luvmygirls » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:38 pm

ScottNM wrote:"In these species, the primary purpose of sex is NOT reproduction. (Not denying that reproduction IS one of the purposes, but its not the PRIMARY purpose) The primary purpose is Bonding, strengthening ties between individuals."

Where do you get this from? Why does the male inject seed in every sexual orgasm/encounter? Why would God do that? Obviously your going to have alot of babies or put a woman on contraceptives, many of which have side effects. Until recently many ended up in large families. Thank God for birth control, I guess. Yes, I am one who thinks sex is God's joke on mankind but then again, He is holy and never wrong but you cannot argue these facts I mentioned.


Based on your argument, why do women only ovulate 25% of the time (one week a month)? Also, men don't inject seed in every encounter. Many of us have sexual dysfunctions, but that does not mean the sexual encounter was wasted. I still draw closer to my bride and feel more love and more loved when we ML, regardless of my ability to O.

Again, you are approaching sex from a standpoint of pain. There ARE species that have sex for pleasure, dolphins for one.
"If you have any poo, fling it now."--monkey from "Madagascar"

User avatar
TilWeHaveFaces
Under the stars
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 2:26 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): May 8th, 1999
Gender: Male
Location: St. Anne's-on-the-hill, standing outside the garden gate.

Re:

Postby TilWeHaveFaces » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:14 pm

Kilarin wrote:Esquire article: Do I Love My Wife? An Investigative Report

I ran into this on slashdot. I'm not entirely certain what kind of magazine esquire is, but there isn't any nudity in this article.

A married man agrees to sit underneath an fMRI (short for functional magnetic resonance imaging) machine and let the scientists examine how his brain responds to pictures of his wife, and Angelina Jolie. Very specifically, they are going to measure which he thinks is more sexy, his wife or Angelina.

To his wife's complete surprise, she won. Her husband's brain kicks off sexy fireworks when he looks at a picture of her. More fireworks than when he looks at Angelina. More fireworks than even when he looks at Angelina and deliberately tries to lust after her.

I think it's significant that the author chose Angelina as the "sexy" model for this test. If you look at the pictures of his wife, there are some similarities between her and Angelina. We don't judge our wives by super models, we think super models are sexy if they happen to resemble our wives.

I feel that this supports what I was trying to say in the first post in this thread, (and what others have said since). Men (and Women) LEARN their sexual response through Pavlovian conditioning. We really DO find our wives to be the sexiest women on earth. Every time we make love to our wives, every time we share orgasms and other erotic experiences with someone, we are teaching our brains that THIS is sexy, THIS is what I like, THIS is what I will respond to the next time it comes along.

And this re-emphasizes the danger of promiscuity and, to a lesser but still dangerous degree, pornography. If you train yourself to respond sexually to MANY different kinds of stimulus, you will have a harder time building that strong fixed response in your brain to one person. The kind of response that improves, strengthens, and enhances a marriage.

God requires strict monogamy, NOT to spoil our fun, but because he knows that it will help us build brains that explode with a sexual response for our spouse that no other person, be they co-worker or super model, can ever match.


Holy cow, I love this. I know this post (and article) is three years old, but I've got to figure out a way to share this with DW. Scientific backing for what she always rolls her eyes at when I try to tell her.

Arogen

Re: Monogamy

Postby Arogen » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:32 pm

Here is another article along the same line, much more in depth. Worth the time to read it.
Good Sex / Bad Sex: http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/library/wf-109.htm

User avatar
Kilarin
Under the stars
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:36 pm
Location: South of Ft. Worth Texas

Re: Monogamy

Postby Kilarin » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:52 am

ScottNM wrote:
Kilarin wrote:"In these species, the primary purpose of sex is NOT reproduction. (Not denying that reproduction IS one of the purposes, but its not the PRIMARY purpose) The primary purpose is Bonding, strengthening ties between individuals."

Where do you get this from? Why does the male inject seed in every sexual orgasm/encounter? Why would God do that?

luvmygirls wrote:Based on your argument, why do women only ovulate 25% of the time (one week a month)?

lovmygirls nailed it. The point is that human females do not signal when they are fertile. As a result, humans have sex when they are NOT fertile. They have MORE unfertile sex than fertile sex. And that's why I feel that the bonding aspect of sexuality is even more important for our species than the reproductive aspect. MOST of our sex is not reproductive, ALL of our sex helps bond a husband and wife together.

ScottNM wrote:Yes, I am one who thinks sex is God's joke on mankind but then again,

Well, I agree with C. S. Lewis that God has a sense of humor. And I believe that human sexuality is one place that it really shows. Tying a simple reproductive act into the emotions of love and intimacy IS rather funny when you look at it. But its the kind of joke that EVERYONE enjoys, even the one on the receiving end.

Sex is a gift from God. It's a shame that Satan has twisted it, just like he does everything else, but that doesn't change it's basic nature. We should all be striving to move closer to God's ideas so that we can receive the full blessings of marital bliss that God intended for us.

TillWeHaveFaces wrote:I've got to figure out a way to share this with DW. Scientific backing for what she always rolls her eyes at when I try to tell her.

Indeed! Sometimes it's hard to convince them. In a healthy and active sexual relationship, both partners bond in such a way that they become each others sexual ideal. Thats why I wrote <here> about how much better a wife's breast are than porn breasts. It's about the history. It's about the bonding. It's about the PERSON. And no movie star or porn actress could ever even have a CHANCE of competing.

Arogen wrote:Here is another article along the same line, much more in depth. Worth the time to read it. Good Sex / Bad Sex: http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/library/wf-109.htm

Thanks, that IS a most excellent article!


Return to “Sexual Limits (Engaged)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users