Kissing

What limits should we set before marriage?
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Kissing

Postby beautyfromashes » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:20 am

DH and I had planned on not kissing until we were married. We decided we didn't want to stick to that, for a lot of reasons. A big one was we didn't want our first kiss (It was the first kiss ever for both of us!) to be in front of the 100+ people at our wedding. Our problem was that we didn't draw a hard line after that, other than no PIV. So we ended up doing "everything but" before our wedding.

I think there are good arguments for both sides on the kissing issue. I think you and your FH need to make the decision together. I also think that if you do decide to kiss, you need to draw some very firm boundaries on how far you will let that go, and stick to them. Especially since your wedding is over a year away.
Deep intimacy always requires work, acceptance, and forgiveness. Lots of it. ~~ Linda Dillow

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Re: Kissing

Postby bubbielover » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:10 am

Not to change the subject, but I think long engagements are terribly unwise. I've never understood the popular notion of saying "I'm ready to love you and want to be committed to you forever in marriage...but let's wait a year or more before we finalize that decision." I'd rather go thru those hard things being married. That's the point of being married:not living life alone thru the good and bad. Marriage is not about waiting until everything is "perfect."

But more on track, I'm glad you are talking to your fiance. It sounded like your previous decision was completely YOUR decision, and though I understand you are not married yet, it's not a good way to start a marriage if one person can make unilateral decisions that affect both of them.

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Re: Kissing

Postby InGodsGrace » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:07 pm

bubbielover wrote:Not to change the subject, but I think long engagements are terribly unwise. I've never understood the popular notion of saying "I'm ready to love you and want to be committed to you forever in marriage...but let's wait a year or more before we finalize that decision." I'd rather go thru those hard things being married. That's the point of being married:not living life alone thru the good and bad. Marriage is not about waiting until everything is "perfect."

But more on track, I'm glad you are talking to your fiance. It sounded like your previous decision was completely YOUR decision, and though I understand you are not married yet, it's not a good way to start a marriage if one person can make unilateral decisions that affect both of them.


We had a long engagement because I wanted a NICE place to be married. I hate any type of "hall". I wanted a beautiful place to have pictures and have the reception. I didn't want some place we had to decorate etc. I wanted it all done for me.

cowlypso
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Re: Kissing

Postby cowlypso » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:40 pm

I would absolutely marry him sooner if we could. Unfortunately, if we were to get married now, we probably wouldn't be able to live together except on the weekends. If we did live together, it would mean 1-1.5 hour commutes (one-way) for both of us. So yeah, I'd love to get married now, but doing so wouldn't necessarily eliminate the "going through life alone" thing. I don't need to wait until everything is perfect, but I do want to be able to live together in our first year of marriage!

That is a good point about this being a unilateral decision. And also very good points about drawing clear boundaries if we take this step. That is the thing I am most worried about - is the possibility of kissing opening the door for more. At some point soon, I will have to bring up the "if we take this step, then what will our new boundaries be?" topic. But this weekend was pretty full with other things and there was no good time to have that talk.

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Re: Kissing

Postby A2597 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:54 pm

This, to me, is one of those personal things for each relationship. For some people it's no big deal, for others it starts the ball rolling too soon, and they wind up regretting it.
For myself, I knew long before I met my Fiance that I wanted my next kiss to be on my wedding day, and thus far we have lived that out.

That said, a good frank conversation about sexual relations in marriage is hugely important! I've read too many stories of LD/HD marriages because the couple saved everything for marriage to advise anything else. If you have a mentor in your relationship that you both feel comfortable having that conversation with, great. If not, find a private place in public (a park, away from everyone but still out in the open) and talk about it.

If you're close to being on the same page in terms of desire... great! If not...well, something to work through, or make a decision about.

Either way, if you feel strongly that kissing should be saved for marriage, live that out. But do make certain you are both on the same page about what happens after the "I Do's".

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Re: Kissing

Postby cowlypso » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:23 pm

Well, we did it. We had several long conversations about the things that I mentioned here, and my reasons for wanting to wait. They sort of ended on a "wait and see" note. Then he asked me one day during the week if he could kiss me the next time I saw him, and I said yes, but that before that happened there would need to be a discussion about boundaries.

So that Friday night, we sat on the couch and he laid out the boundaries he'd come up with:
-No kissing on the couch (generally not in the house at all)
-No kissing in the car
-No kissing below the chin (hands are okay)
-Limited to 5-10 seconds
-Mostly limited to once a day, saying goodnight

And then when I left that evening, he kissed me. It was pretty awkward, but it's getting more comfortable. Definitely glad that I didn't save my first kiss for my wedding day. That would have been special, but also incredibly awkward to do in front of all those people!

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Re: Kissing

Postby MyWifesMan » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:43 pm

Glad you guys got that kissing thing decided. I can't really see the big deal about PMK, as long as it is simply done with tongueless, non-lingering kisses. To me, french kissing absolutely begs for sex, as it is overtly sexual and intimate. And absolutely no hands on anything below the neck. Also, I'd avoid locations that keep you alone in places that provide opportunities for things going further than planned. Not following these were our downfall :( .

As for not getting married any sooner. If the passion is impossible to contain - or looks like it's heading in that direction - I would highly consider figuring out a way to move up the wedding.

The other complicating factor is that, 2 years ago, he promised his older daughter that he would ride his bicycle across the country with her the summer after she graduates college, which is next summer. That's a 2.5-3 month trip


While I realize that you wouldn't want your fiance's daughter to feel slighted, I really question delaying marriage another 3 months just so they can go on a bike trip. Cannot they delay it (to a reasonable time post marriage) and perhaps, even then, shorten it somewhat? Shouldn't you come before his daughter? Unless, of course, you are totally fine with that. Also, I would really make sure you guys are on the same page about putting each other first before family, excepting unusual or unique circumstances.

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Re: Kissing

Postby cowlypso » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:35 pm

We are definitely on the same page with the God, marriage, kids priorities (in that order). However, the trip is indeed a unique circumstance. It is a trip that he promised her 2 years ago, for the summer after she graduates from college. Postponing the trip would mean postponing it to another summer, as he is a teacher and can only go in the summer. One can only hope that his daughter will be gainfully employed by then! To go on the trip that was promised (riding from the Pacific to the Atlantic), there's really no way to shorten it significantly. I suppose that a shorter bike trip could possibly be substituted, but she really has her heart set on biking across the country (her grandfather did it many years ago, and she's read all of his journals from his trip and wants to replicate it). And to cancel the trip because of our marriage would not set him up well for a good relationship with his daughters in the future. I really am okay with him going. I don't want him to go, but I believe 100% that it is the right thing for him to do. I would hesitate to marry a man who was quick to back out on his promises.

Other than the bike trip, he has definitely shown that he is putting me ahead of his daughters. Things have actually gone really well this week with his older daughter visiting home. He sat them both down last week and explained to them that I'm not going anywhere and that we all need to figure out some way to make it work. His older daughter has been doing amazingly well, and his younger daughter is doing very well compared to how she was before. There is hope!

Related to the kissing... Apparently somebody (or several somebodies) at the church have been spreading rumors. I got a hint about it earlier this week when we were working at camp. My friend who is on staff with the church said something to me about needing to watch our pda because we'd been busted "several times by several people" at church in the weeks prior. I was completely confused about what she meant, but was really stressed out and not really in a good frame of mind to ask for clarification. But the reason I was confused was because the most that we'd done at church was hold hands and briefly hug. Things became clearer after he got a visit from one of the elders on Thursday. Apparently they discussed us at their elder meeting this week, because somebody had caught us making out at church. So the elder was there to tell us that they are all happy for us, but it is inappropriate to be making out at church. The issue is that this was a complete fabrication. Our first kiss was well after the date that we were supposedly caught making out! I have no idea who made the allegation, or why. The only thing that I can think of is that somebody is upset about our relationship (his late wife was the church secretary and loved by many) and trying to undermine it. He explained the situation (or lack thereof!) to the elder who stopped by his house, and he is planning on going to the next elder meeting to discuss the matter with them to protect my reputation. I guess the really hurtful thing about this whole situation is that my friend suffered through many false accusations surrounding her marriage, and yet she was so quick to accept the false accusations against me as truth.

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Re: Kissing

Postby OneBlessedGirl » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:02 pm

Which is more admirable, to have ice cream in the freezer and eat it in small acceptable increments, resisting the temptation to inhale huge bowls full each day or to resist temptation to over-eat ice cream by not keeping it in the house? Just some food for thought. :)

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Re: Kissing

Postby PS56 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:48 pm

OneBlessedGirl wrote:Which is more admirable, to have ice cream in the freezer and eat it in small acceptable increments, resisting the temptation to inhale huge bowls full each day or to resist temptation to over-eat ice cream by not keeping it in the house? Just some food for thought. :)


I don't know, which one is more admirable?

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Re: Kissing

Postby cowlypso » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:21 pm

OneBlessedGirl wrote:OneBlessedGirl wrote:Which is more admirable, to have ice cream in the freezer and eat it in small acceptable increments, resisting the temptation to inhale huge bowls full each day or to resist temptation to over-eat ice cream by not keeping it in the house? Just some food for thought.


Romans 6:1 "1 Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more kindness and forgiveness?"

Is it more admirable to get as close to sin as possible yet still resist temptation, or to stay far away from sin? I think that putting yourself into a position of temptation just to "prove" your commitment to purity and self control is a lot like continuing to sin just to "prove" God's grace.

I'm not in any way saying that kissing before marriage is sinful. Just that it is one of many things that can lead to temptation. Every couple needs to figure out where the line is drawn, and that line should be drawn well on the safe side of sin. In my opinion, approaching close to sin and escaping without being burned is not more admirable than having stayed far, far away from it.

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Re: Kissing

Postby partydelights » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:15 am

I don't know how others males my age will react, but for me, if I kissed by DW more than 5 sec, I'll be all set for PIV. If I were in your FH's position, a peck on the cheek is OK, but anything more is tantamount to temptation, esp mouth to mouth kissing. You may like to check with your FH for his "state of arousal" after your good-night kiss the morning after, just to play safe. :D

(Just my opinion, and I'm 41.)
I love my wife, that's why I crave to have sex with her.

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Re: Kissing

Postby bruinfan89 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:59 am

My view is that once a couple engages in extended kissing, they will, in short order, be sexually involved. True, they may not have intercourse, but they will do everything else. My own experience with an ex-girlfriend confirms this. First, there was extended kissing, including French Kissing. Then, quickly thereafter, feeling of the breasts. Then, again quickly thereafter, dry humping to orgasm. Then, feeling of the genitals to orgasm. Then, naked cuddling and grinding to orgasm. That all happened within four months of the relationship beginning. I'm not claiming every couple will go through these stages at pace we did, but I think most will be tempted to do so. Here's the deception: At the time, I thought "as long as we don't go all the way (full insertion intercourse), we've sinned, but haven't had sex." I totally reject that premise now. Anything that leads to orgasm is sex, not just putting body parts in the correct place.

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Re: Kissing

Postby ghostrider » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:56 am

bruinfan89 wrote: Here's the deception: At the time, I thought "as long as we don't go all the way (full insertion intercourse), we've sinned, but haven't had sex." I totally reject that premise now. Anything that leads to orgasm is sex, not just putting body parts in the correct place.


This is the key. It's about where you draw the line. You drew the line at not having intercourse, and so that is where you stopped. I don't accept the slippery slope fallacy that says once you take step one, then you will automatically take step two, three, etc. When DW and I were engaged we wanted to go all the way whether we kissed or not. But we drew the line before 2nd base and held to it.

We kissed - a lot, and held hands all the time, but we didn't kiss below the shoulders,take our clothes off, or touch boobs, genitals, etc. I'm not bragging - if our engagement had gone much longer we probably could have gotten in more trouble, so I'm not saying we were super disciplined or something. I'm just saying its possible for a couple to make a choice for themselves and hold to it and not worry about if or why someone else did things they regret.


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