Me and my fiance have differing views on mb

What limits should we set before marriage?
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Deelmo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:51 am

Andy,

I think you'd better think long and hard on this. And go with what YOU and YOUR FW decide. No body else is going to be in your marriage but the two of you.

Are you really looking for "justification" on the MB issue? So you can say "well, everybody does it so nothing's wrong with it". No one opinion counts but your FW's.

And my opinion doesn't count either, but since you asked :P I'll give it to you. Masturbation is wrong. Just totally wrong. For all the reasons that Leah stated plus more. I have been a porn addict, and a bad one at that. I quit porn and MB almost two before I married. Cold turkey. It can be done. You can do it. I consider masturbation to be self-sex and that was NOT in God's design. (look for others here on TMB to pull out their flame throwers at me :lol: ) I appreciate your maturity in recognizing that fact that your porn history probably taints MB for you. The attitude towards sex that porn creates has been explained very well be Leah. Your attitude towards sex should be ALL about your wife. Every bit of your sexual energy should be focused on your wife, not yourself. And hers on you. Now that you are engaged - start focusing your mind on her. Let your sexual energy build towards her (don't cross the line!!!) IMHO, masturbation is the cheap and easy way out. So what if you may frustrated - so what. Maybe (again IMHO) God designed it this way so you would turn to your spouse. AND WORK TOGETHER ON IT.

Here's a link: http://carm.org/masturbation

Now, everyone put up the flame throwers :lol: . I'm not saying MB is a sin, but it is wrong. Many things not specifically mentioned in the Bible are wrong - ie: pot, drugs, smoking. You must do what The Holy Spirit guides YOU to do. I believe for each person this can be different simply because The Holy Spirit knows our individual hearts.
*******************************
poetess wrote:LIBL, you're a woman (we don't have the same biological need for release) and you're married. I have a hunch the question of masturbation is much different for a man, and for sure it's different in marriage.


Poetess - My DW would absolutely, positively disagree with this statement :shock: ::al
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Dale » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:53 am

thisbejoe7 wrote:
andy_m wrote:It seems to be a big deal for her, cos she seems to be saying that she is hoping God can help me with this by the time we marry...


Now that bothers me a little. It seems that she views you as weak because you can't "shake" this sin. She is putting herself in the superior position as the more "spiritual" person - because she doesn't MB. I see a red flag and potential for future problems. The kind of problems that are hard to see at first - early in the relationship - but that over time turn into difficult issues.


I'm with thisbejoe on this one. I see HUGE red flags for your future sex life here. If what you are interpreting as her attitude right now is correct, then she is setting herself up (probably unconsciously) to be the "driver" of your sex life together, the one who is in control because she has more self-control than you do. Big problem!! God calls us in marriage to submit to each other, and sexual intimacy especially should be in that camp. Also, that kind of attitude typically sees sex as something negative and to be controlled--when God says in marriage that we are to be joyful and free with our sexuality, so long as it is directed at the other spouse.

I think you need to be talking more to your future wife about this. Are you two in any kind of premarital counseling? If not, then you need to find a good pastor or counselor with a pro-sex in marriage mindset and sit down together to talk some of these issues out.

Dale

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Dale » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:57 am

I appreciate your stance, Deelmo, and no flame throwers from me -- but it should also be noted that your strong views on masturbation are not defensible from the Bible, and are not shared by most posters here. Just wanted to clarify that because the OP is new here.

Dale

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby thisbejoe7 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:59 am

Deelmo, I'm not bringing out a flame thrower, but I disagree with you. For the same reasons I disagree with teetotalers. Prohibition based on subjective experience and then applied to the masses is a recipe for disaster. I've got no problems with someone saying that MB is wrong for them, by all means abide by your conscious. But I take issue with using a personal conviction and applying it to others. That is wrong and I oppose that as an issue, not you personally.

And yes many things that are wrong are not listed in Scripture, but that is not a legitimate argument for the same can be said to make a positive statement like - driving an automobile is a sin because Jesus never mentioned it. Not a good way to argue a point.

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Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Cowboy » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:37 am

While I am not going to argue the OP's topic, I do want to say to thisbejoe7 that there is a verse in John that starts with Christ saying "for I did not speak of my own accord..." So clearly Jesus drove a Honda.

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Deelmo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:53 am

Dale wrote:I appreciate your stance, Deelmo, and no flame throwers from me -- but it should also be noted that your strong views on masturbation are not defensible from the Bible, and are not shared by most posters here. Just wanted to clarify that because the OP is new here.

Dale


Agree to disagree. With all due respect. BUT - there are also NO defensible verses from the Bible that say masturbation is OK, right, or do whatever pleases you about it. There are many verses about self-control and staying pure. About God's design for sex to be between TWO married people. It seems to me that most everyone here wants to defend their view about masturbation being RIGHT for everyone. It's not. It's simply not. And by that I mean for the individual. Taking into account his porn history - I told the OP my opinion, you have said yours. I also advised that him that ONLY The Holy Spirit can be his true guide on this matter about masturbation being OK or NOT for the individual.

It's kinda like that old saying "if you have to ask if it's right, then you really know it's wrong".

thisbejoe7 wrote:Deelmo, I'm not bringing out a flame thrower, but I disagree with you. For the same reasons I disagree with teetotalers. Prohibition based on subjective experience and then applied to the masses is a recipe for disaster. I've got no problems with someone saying that MB is wrong for them, by all means abide by your conscious. But I take issue with using a personal conviction and applying it to others. That is wrong and I oppose that as an issue, not you personally.



Exactly. But Joe, you've done the same thing. You took your personal conviction that MB is OK and applied it to the OP/everyone.

Thanks for NOT bringing out the flame throwers, I do appreciate it . Not that it really matters because like I've stated before, on this issue, I wear my turn-out gear :lol: . And I do want everyone to know that the last time this subject was brought up, I did some really in-depth study on it. I used to say masturbation was a SIN - well, ok, I concede on that point. I won't exactly call MB a sin - but I still believe it's wrong. Sex is a gift from God meant for marriage. Sex is between two spouses. Sex (ejaculation) releases certain bonding chemicals in the brain. God meant for us to bond with spouses, not ourselves. We are suppose to have self-control in all things. We are suppose pray on all things. We are supposed to listen to our/The Holy Spirit. Corinthians 10:23-24

I'm not going to argue the sin part. But my personal conviction is that one should do NOTHING that one wouldn't do in front of the Lord.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby KyWildcat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:38 pm

Deelmo wrote:I'm not going to argue the sin part. But my personal conviction is that one should do NOTHING that one wouldn't do in front of the Lord.

Defecating?

Just because something is private doesn't also make it sinful.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby thisbejoe7 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:49 pm

Deelmo wrote:There are many verses about self-control and staying pure.


In the context that many of us are speaking from, self-control and staying pure are behavioral concepts, bodily functions like urinating, breathing, ejaculating - these are not in and of themselves functions of morality.

Deelmo wrote:About God's design for sex to be between TWO married people.


Now the subject has changed, since sex is a completely different and separate act apart from MB. You assert that MB is "self-sex", but to me that makes no sense, since sex is by literal/traditional definition "penetrative intercourse with a person of the opposite sex". Therefore, "self-sex" is precluded as an applicable description of MB based on definitions alone.

Deelmo wrote:It seems to me that most everyone here wants to defend their view about masturbation being RIGHT for everyone. It's not. It's simply not. And by that I mean for the individual. Taking into account his porn history - I told the OP my opinion, you have said yours. I also advised that him that ONLY The Holy Spirit can be his true guide on this matter about masturbation being OK or NOT for the individual.

It's kinda like that old saying "if you have to ask if it's right, then you really know it's wrong".


I get what you are saying (and sorry for butting into your conversation with dale), but you are trying to defend your view that MB is wrong (even though you won't call it a sin), but for everyone. I sense a double standard. Clearly everyone has a conscience and we're admonished in Scripture not to violate our conscience, so in that sense yes, something that is objectively not a sin/wrong could be a sin/wrong for an individual. But that concept CANNOT be applied in broad generalities and enforced on EVERYONE.

Deelmo wrote:Exactly. But Joe, you've done the same thing. You took your personal conviction that MB is OK and applied it to the OP/everyone.


Not exactly, because I also acknowledge individual conscience. I do believe that in an objective sense, MB is not a sin and not wrong. However, on an individual level, it may be "wrong" for you or the OP. It continues to puzzle me why some Christians apply the concept of stewardship to most other areas of life, except when it comes to their sexuality. Which is better? A man who never MBs and struggles greatly with temptation and lust - OR - a man who MBs and keeps his powerful sex drive at bay, making it easier to resist temptation and avoid lust? I say the latter is better. And it can be done with success and does not bring about false guilt unnecessarily. It really bothers me the way some people talk about MB, they can't make a solid Scriptural case against it, but they basically preach its "evils" and bring down shame and guilt on people over the issue. I don't think that reflects God's will in the issue at all.

Deelmo wrote:Thanks for NOT bringing out the flame throwers, I do appreciate it . Not that it really matters because like I've stated before, on this issue, I wear my turn-out gear :lol: . And I do want everyone to know that the last time this subject was brought up, I did some really in-depth study on it. I used to say masturbation was a SIN - well, ok, I concede on that point. I won't exactly call MB a sin - but I still believe it's wrong.


I admire that, and applaud your willingness to evaluate your own beliefs and actually have an open mind willing to change your views if appropriate.

Deelmo wrote:Sex is a gift from God meant for marriage. Sex is between two spouses. Sex (ejaculation) releases certain bonding chemicals in the brain. God meant for us to bond with spouses, not ourselves.


I think we're back to conflation again, as MB and sex are completely different things. Sex=intercourse, sex ≠ ejaculation. NEVER in all my years of MB have I ever felt any kind of bonding or weird chemically caused feelings about "myself". In fact, MB is purely a physical process. Some pastors have had the audacity to describe MB as a homosexual act, which is absurd. They ask dumb questions like "what do you think about". Let me just remind everyone that porn and MB are not tied together necessarily.

Deelmo wrote:We are suppose to have self-control in all things. We are suppose pray on all things. We are supposed to listen to our/The Holy Spirit. Corinthians 10:23-24


Self control is important, and I would argue that MB is a tool that one can use to help keep his hormones under "control" so that he is not led around by his sexual desires. If MB is what it takes for someone to practice self-control sexually, then I say God bless you! If you think utter and complete abstinence and suppression of the sex drive is the way to go, then I would point you to some disturbing statistics that show this method to be utterly ineffective in general, its just not working.

Deelmo wrote:I'm not going to argue the sin part. But my personal conviction is that one should do NOTHING that one wouldn't do in front of the Lord.


I'm glad we don't have the sin issue to argue over. But I must say that last sentence is capable of doing some serious damage to people. I talked to a woman once who was a drug/sex addict. She went to a "religious" organization/home and lived there for months. People there told her that line, that when tempted to MB, just imagine Jesus standing next to you and that will make you stop. Well, for one thing, it didn't work, but additionally its a very cruel thing to say to someone, especially if they struggle with their sexuality. I understand the good motivations behind that kind of statement, but I think its very harmful and destructive. In addition, God created sex and sexual function, it was His idea, in fact, man and woman, fully sexual - is the ONLY thing God said was "Very Good". Shame does not come from God for the believer, it comes from other people and Satan.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:57 pm

De'Elmo, I'll agree with you that masturbation is not the ideal, but I can't agree that it's wrong. I think it should be used as tool for self-control before marriage, and as a last resort after.

If you believe that ALL masturbation is sinful, or at least should be avoided, then what should be done in these scenarios?

-Spouse is deployed overseas. Is it okay for them to MB to pictures and thoughts of their spouse? Or should both spouses just be celibate for the months of separation?

-Let's say my husband decides we're not going to have sex again. Ever. I still ask, but he always says no. Am I allowed to take matters into my own hands? Or are my only options total celibacy or divorce?

(And yes, I realize these are kind of "hard case" arguments, but they are realistic ones.)
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby TilWeHaveFaces » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:21 pm

I enjoy the discussion we've drifted into, but I question how much value this is for the OP. (Though perhaps he can tell us.)

Can we agree to disagree on the "is MB always wrong?" question and go back to addressing his specific situation, even if our recommendations conflict with each other?

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby OnlyGodCanJudgeMe » Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:02 pm

Deelmo wrote:Andy,

I think you'd better think long and hard on this. And go with what YOU and YOUR FW decide. No body else is going to be in your marriage but the two of you.

Are you really looking for "justification" on the MB issue? So you can say "well, everybody does it so nothing's wrong with it". No one opinion counts but your FW's.


Not going to flame either...but I do have a few questions and an opinion.

Do you think a refused spouse shouldn't MB?
If you do not MB or receive sex regularly do you want to wake up in the morning all sticky?
Do you not think that MB would stop lusting and much? I mean not for you in particular but for others.

I understand that you must be a very strong willed person to have such control over your thoughts and body. Do you think all others are that impenetrable and do not need release? I just would like some clarification.

andy_m,

My wife is/was the same way. My wife is also a refuser. She lives content in her own sins. The way I see it is this. If she met my needs I would not have to do it. Last time we ML was 11/29. So have I MB, yes. Will I continue, yes. As far as your situation, I would take SOME of the advise here.

1. Have a frank discussion
2. Explain that you have no outlet
3. Discuss each other's sexual expectations
4. MAKE SURE YOU ARE ON THE SAME PAGE!!!
5. Explain to her that when you are married you will no longer need to MB IF SHE MEETS YOUR EXPECTATIONS.

I also strongly suggest that you discuss anything and everything about sex. Anything and everything you want to with her BEFORE you are married. Put everything on the table up front. Everything, how often you would like to ML, what things you would like to try, your wants, fantasies, desires...etc. Also her wants and desires, etc. You also need to figure out her view on sex. Is it something dirty like MB???? What views did her parents and church teach her about sex. That way you basically know what you are getting into and so does she.
I honestly wish I would have had that discussion with my wife.
I think it is YOUR choice. At this point you aren't married, but discussing everything in advance should prepare you for when you are married.
IMHO. That is just what it is an opinion. I know some won't see eye to eye with me but you know what, it doesn't matter. As long as I am right with God. :grin::grin::grin:

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Deelmo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:58 pm

beautyfromashes wrote:De'Elmo, I'll agree with you that masturbation is not the ideal, but I can't agree that it's wrong. I think it should be used as tool for self-control before marriage, and as a last resort after.

If you believe that ALL masturbation is sinful, or at least should be avoided, then what should be done in these scenarios?

-Spouse is deployed overseas. Is it okay for them to MB to pictures and thoughts of their spouse? Or should both spouses just be celibate for the months of separation?


Both should be celibate. I know that may be hard - but it can be done. It would be akin to one spouse being ill and unable. Distant would cause the inablity. I know that not what you wanted you to hear. They are many good people in the armed services that are married. But seperation come with that job and they know it. It is part of it. But that's my opinion. I think absence makes the heart grow fonder.

beautyfromashes wrote:Let's say my husband decides we're not going to have sex again. Ever. I still ask, but he always says no. Am I allowed to take matters into my own hands? Or are my only options total celibacy or divorce?


I'd say there was a whole lot more wrong with your marriage than the sex. I would advise to get to the "why" of the refusing. If your husband also refused to get help (counseling, pastor, family) then since this was NOT by MUTUAL consent, I would advise you if you can't accept it, then to divorce. He needs to set you free.

beautyfromashes wrote:(And yes, I realize these are kind of "hard case" arguments, but they are realistic ones.)


Hard cases, yes. But not unrealistic either.

[mod fixed quotes]
Last edited by Deelmo on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby landschooner » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:03 pm

I know you were answering a direct question and giving your opinion. Totally cool.

I'm giving my opinion for the record. If one can MB without lusting for someone other than your spouse, then there is no prohibition.

LS

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Deelmo » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:19 pm

OnlyGodCanJudgeMe wrote:
Deelmo wrote:Andy,

I think you'd better think long and hard on this. And go with what YOU and YOUR FW decide. No body else is going to be in your marriage but the two of you.

Are you really looking for "justification" on the MB issue? So you can say "well, everybody does it so nothing's wrong with it". No one opinion counts but your FW's.


Not going to flame either...but I do have a few questions and an opinion.

Do you think a refused spouse shouldn't MB?


If you're talking about total refusal - then I think there's more wrong it that marriage than just refusal. Refusal is symptom of a bigger problem. The problem needs to be addressed first. If the refusing spouse also refuses to get help through counseling then seperation. If no mutual agreement can be reached, then divorce.
OnlyGodCanJudgeMe wrote:If you do not MB or receive sex regularly do you want to wake up in the morning all sticky?


I lost the link to this. If I remember the article correctly - Abstinence will cause a nocturnal emission in 4-6 months. After that, infrequently - about to as much as once in ten years. Sticky :lol: . Nothing a bit of soap and water won't cure. Lev. 5:16

OnlyGodCanJudgeMe wrote: Do you not think that MB would stop lusting and much? I mean not for you in particular but for others.


I think people need to learn not to lust. To train they eye not to look. To pray.

OnlyGodCanJudgeMe wrote:I understand that you must be a very strong willed person to have such control over your thoughts and body. Do you think all others are that impenetrable and do not need release? I just would like some clarification.


Thank you, but I don't deserve any praise. I only developed a strong will because of my deep sin. And God give me the will, not myself. And HE can do anything for anyone.

OnlyGodCanJudgeMe wrote:
andy_m,

My wife is/was the same way. My wife is also a refuser. She lives content in her own sins. The way I see it is this. If she met my needs I would not have to do it. Last time we ML was 11/29. So have I MB, yes. Will I continue, yes. As far as your situation, I would take SOME of the advise here.

1. Have a frank discussion
2. Explain that you have no outlet
3. Discuss each other's sexual expectations
4. MAKE SURE YOU ARE ON THE SAME PAGE!!!
5. Explain to her that when you are married you will no longer need to MB IF SHE MEETS YOUR EXPECTATIONS.

I also strongly suggest that you discuss anything and everything about sex. Anything and everything you want to with her BEFORE you are married. Put everything on the table up front. Everything, how often you would like to ML, what things you would like to try, your wants, fantasies, desires...etc. Also her wants and desires, etc. You also need to figure out her view on sex. Is it something dirty like MB???? What views did her parents and church teach her about sex. That way you basically know what you are getting into and so does she.
I honestly wish I would have had that discussion with my wife.
I think it is YOUR choice. At this point you aren't married, but discussing everything in advance should prepare you for when you are married.
IMHO. That is just what it is an opinion. I know some won't see eye to eye with me but you know what, it doesn't matter. As long as I am right with God. :grin::grin::grin:


Very good advise to Andy. But don't forget - that HER needs also have to be met. If he gets to have EXPECTATIONS then he better believe and be willing to met his FW expectations. I would say go into the conversation with more of a servant heart. More about him serving her. And she should do the same. No two people are going to see the same thing the exact same way. Be willing to compromize.

[mod fixed quotes]
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MadeNew » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:38 pm

I guess at this point, my options are: 1) to ask her to consider thinking that its ok that I mb, 2) to say nothing and mb, 3) to try to stop mb....

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MadeNew » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:46 pm

Also, I do not believe she has any unhealthy views about sexuality. She has been reading Intended for Pleasure, (but she's been holding off on the parts of the book that are "special" lol). I'd like to read it, but i will hold off on it for now as well, cos it turns me on too much.

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Deelmo » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:07 am

thisbejoe7 wrote:
Deelmo wrote:There are many verses about self-control and staying pure.

In the context that many of us are speaking from, self-control and staying pure are behavioral concepts, bodily functions like urinating, breathing, ejaculating - these are not in and of themselves functions of morality.


I don't ejaculation on the same level as breathing or urinating. Behavioral concepts - the Lord is concerned with what is in our hearts.

thisbejoe7 wrote:
Deelmo wrote:About God's design for sex to be between TWO married people.

Now the subject has changed, since sex is a completely different and separate act apart from MB. You assert that MB is "self-sex", but to me that
makes no sense, since sex is by literal/traditional definition "penetrative intercourse with a person of the opposite sex". Therefore, "self-sex" is
precluded as an applicable description of MB based on definitions alone.


ok - I'm going to pose this question again (since no one answered it when I asked it in another thread) SEX - Joe, please go have sex with your wife and NEVER EVER have an ejaculation during sex with your wife. NEVER. Would you truly feel that you were having sex? I understand that "technically" sex does not equal ejaculation - but come now, get real, would you really ONLY have "technical" sex?

thisbejoe7 wrote:
Deelmo wrote:It seems to me that most everyone here wants to defend their view about masturbation being RIGHT for
everyone. It's not. It's simply not. And by that I mean for the individual. Taking into account his porn history - I told the OP my opinion, you have said yours. I also advised that him that ONLY The Holy Spirit can be his true guide on this matter about masturbation being OK or NOT for the individual.

It's kinda like that old saying "if you have to ask if it's right, then you really know it's wrong".

I get what you are saying (and sorry for butting into your conversation with dale), but you are trying to defend your view that MB is wrong (even though
you won't call it a sin), but for everyone. I sense a double standard. Clearly everyone has a conscience and we're admonished in Scripture not to
violate our conscience, so in that sense yes, something that is objectively not a sin/wrong could be a sin/wrong for an individual. But that concept
CANNOT be applied in broad generalities and enforced on EVERYONE.


Did you miss the what I said. I bolded it for you. Also, I never used the "enforced" nor am I trying to "enforce" my OPINION on anyone. I believe I know what most people's opinion on TMB is regarding MB. I think I'm right, they think they're right. They think I'm wrong, I think they're wrong. The key here hinges on the fact that the OP asked for opinions.

thisbejoe7 wrote:
Deelmo wrote:Exactly. But Joe, you've done the same thing. You took your personal conviction that MB is OK and applied it to

the OP/everyone.

Not exactly, because I also acknowledge individual conscience. I do believe that in an objective sense, MB is not a sin and not wrong. However, on an
individual level, it may be "wrong" for you or the OP. It continues to puzzle me why some Christians apply the concept of stewardship to most other
areas of life, except when it comes to their sexuality. Which is better? A man who never MBs and struggles greatly with temptation and lust - OR - a
man who MBs and keeps his powerful sex drive at bay, making it easier to resist temptation and avoid lust? I say the latter is better. And it can be
done with success and does not bring about false guilt unnecessarily. It really bothers me the way some people talk about MB, they can't make a solid
Scriptural case against it, but they basically preach its "evils" and bring down shame and guilt on people over the issue. I don't think that reflects God's
will in the issue at all.


I also advised that him that ONLY The Holy Spirit can be his true guide on this matter about masturbation being OK or NOT for the individual. Again, perhaps you missed this so I bolded it for you. Also - "they" can't make a solid Scriptural case FOR masturbation either and "they" basically preach it's "values" and bring only a self serving and not others/spouse serving attitude on people over the issue.

thisbejoe7 wrote:
Deelmo wrote:Sex is a gift from God meant for marriage. Sex is between two spouses. Sex (ejaculation) releases certain
bonding chemicals in the brain. God meant for us to bond with spouses, not ourselves.

I think we're back to conflation again, as MB and sex are completely different things. Sex=intercourse, sex ≠ ejaculation. NEVER in all my years of MB
have I ever felt any kind of bonding or weird chemically caused feelings about "myself". In fact, MB is purely a physical process. Some pastors have
had the audacity to describe MB as a homosexual act, which is absurd. They ask dumb questions like "what do you think about". Let me just remind
everyone that porn and MB are not tied together necessarily.


I think you might benifit from studying about the natural chemicals that the brain releases when ejaculation/orgasm occurs.

thisbejoe7 wrote:
Deelmo wrote:We are suppose to have self-control in all things. We are suppose pray on all things. We are supposed to listen
to our/The Holy Spirit. Corinthians 10:23-24

Self control is important, and I would argue that MB is a tool that one can use to help keep his hormones under "control" so that he is not led around by
his sexual desires. If MB is what it takes for someone to practice self-control sexually, then I say God bless you! If you think utter and complete
abstinence and suppression of the sex drive is the way to go, then I would point you to some disturbing statistics that show this method to be utterly
ineffective in general, its just not working.


Point me to those statistics. I have read anything like that and would like to study it. I do respect your research skills. I've seen them in action on other threads.

thisbejoe7 wrote:
Deelmo wrote:I'm not going to argue the sin part. But my personal conviction is that one should do NOTHING that one wouldn't
do in front of the Lord.

I'm glad we don't have the sin issue to argue over. But I must say that last sentence is capable of doing some serious damage to people. I talked to a
woman once who was a drug/sex addict. She went to a "religious" organization/home and lived there for months. People there told her that line, that
when tempted to MB, just imagine Jesus standing next to you and that will make you stop. Well, for one thing, it didn't work, but additionally its a very
cruel thing to say to someone, especially if they struggle with their sexuality. I understand the good motivations behind that kind of statement, but I think
its very harmful and destructive. In addition, God created sex and sexual function, it was His idea, in fact, man and woman, fully sexual - is the ONLY
thing God said was "Very Good".
Shame does not come from God for the believer, it comes from other people and Satan.


I don't see it as cruel at all. The Bible tells us that the Lord is ALWAYS with us. That God knows EVERYTHING. God sees all. He knows the heart of man. And, yep, I bolded your own words "man AND woman = VERY GOOD (saith the Lord)

We're just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on this. Peace, brother.

[mod fixed quotes]
On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the least, 10 being the greatest) are you normal? I am a 1. And who's scale am I using? My wife's, of course!

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Deelmo » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:10 am

andy_m wrote:I guess at this point, my options are: 1) to ask her to consider thinking that its ok that I mb, 2) to say nothing and mb, 3) to try to stop mb....


Please remove option number 2. IMHO, that would do more harm than good. There should be open and honest communication, no secrets or deceiptions.
On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being the least, 10 being the greatest) are you normal? I am a 1. And who's scale am I using? My wife's, of course!

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Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby padsnd » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:39 am

Jberry wrote:While I am not going to argue the OP's topic, I do want to say to thisbejoe7 that there is a verse in John that starts with Christ saying "for I did not speak of my own accord..." So clearly Jesus drove a Honda.

Yes, but the Hondas were much larger back then. In Acts, there were 120 of them and they were all in one Accord!
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby thisbejoe7 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:57 am

Deelmo wrote:About God's design for sex to be between TWO married people.


Deelmo wrote:ok - I'm going to pose this question again (since no one answered it when I asked it in another thread) SEX - Joe, please go have sex with your wife and NEVER EVER have an ejaculation during sex with your wife. NEVER. Would you truly feel that you were having sex? I understand that "technically" sex does not equal ejaculation - but come now, get real, would you really ONLY have "technical" sex?


You are highlighting the point I was making. Sex is between a man and a woman. Sex cannot by very definition occur by ones-self. It is impossible. An individual can masturbate and experience an orgasm/ejaculation which is NOT sex. It is a physical process of stimulation to release. It is not sex by any definition that I'm aware of. So when you use the term sex in relation to masturbation its like you are speaking another language. Does not compute.

Deelmo wrote:Did you miss the what I said. I bolded it for you. Also, I never used the "enforced" nor am I trying to "enforce" my OPINION on anyone. I believe I know what most people's opinion on TMB is regarding MB. I think I'm right, they think they're right. They think I'm wrong, I think they're wrong. The key here hinges on the fact that the OP asked for opinions.


No I didn't miss it. Opinions are exactly what we are debating. Some ideas are worth arguing over.

Deelmo wrote:Sex is a gift from God meant for marriage. Sex is between two spouses. Sex (ejaculation) releases certain bonding chemicals in the brain. God meant for us to bond with spouses, not ourselves.

I think you might benifit from studying about the natural chemicals that the brain releases when ejaculationorgasm occurs.


I have done extensive research into human sexuality, so I'm quite familiar with these processes and the biology. But to assert that "bonding chemicals" would "bond" yourself with yourself during masturbation is nonsense. There must be someone else present for the emotional connection and bonding experience to occur. I've NEVER heard of someone feeling bonded to themselves resulting from MB.

Deelmo wrote:Point me to those statistics. I have read anything like that and would like to study it. I do respect your research skills. I've seen them in action on other threads.


Sorry not this time. I'm very busy at work through the end of the week and besides that - it's probably not appropriate in this thread to engage in debate over stats.

Deelmo wrote:I don't see it as cruel at all. The Bible tells us that the Lord is ALWAYS with us. That God knows EVERYTHING. God sees all. He knows the heart of man.


Yes absolutely the Lord is with us, but to tell people to imagine Jesus standing next to them while they are masturbating just sets Him up as some kind of peeping Tom or voyeur and misrepresents that Scripture in order to guilt people out of a behavior the Bible is silent on. I'm afraid thats just personal legalism at its ugliest.

Deelmo wrote:And, yep, I bolded your own words "man AND woman = VERY GOOD (saith the Lord)


Since this is a completely separate topic, Amen. It is very good as God as said.

Deelmo wrote:We're just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree on this. Peace, brother.


I'm cool with disagreeing. Even more keen on real debate over important issues like this. Some people might wonder "why bother" getting involved in arguments over MB. I guess the reason why I think its so important is that so much unnecessary damage occurs when well meaning Christians use fear, guilt and overspiritualization to bring condemnation on people. I have a problem with that.


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