Deelmo wrote:There are many verses about self-control and staying pure.
In the context that many of us are speaking from, self-control and staying pure are behavioral concepts, bodily functions like urinating, breathing, ejaculating - these are not in and of themselves functions of morality.
Deelmo wrote:About God's design for sex to be between TWO married people.
Now the subject has changed, since sex is a completely different and separate act apart from MB. You assert that MB is "self-sex", but to me that makes no sense, since sex is by literal/traditional definition "penetrative intercourse with a person of the opposite sex". Therefore, "self-sex" is precluded as an applicable description of MB based on definitions alone.
Deelmo wrote:It seems to me that most everyone here wants to defend their view about masturbation being RIGHT for everyone. It's not. It's simply not. And by that I mean for the individual. Taking into account his porn history - I told the OP my opinion, you have said yours. I also advised that him that ONLY The Holy Spirit can be his true guide on this matter about masturbation being OK or NOT for the individual.
It's kinda like that old saying "if you have to ask if it's right, then you really know it's wrong".
I get what you are saying (and sorry for butting into your conversation with dale), but you are trying to defend your view that MB is wrong (even though you won't call it a sin), but for everyone. I sense a double standard. Clearly everyone has a conscience and we're admonished in Scripture not to violate our conscience, so in that sense yes, something that is objectively not a sin/wrong could be a sin/wrong for an individual. But that concept CANNOT be applied in broad generalities and enforced on EVERYONE.
Deelmo wrote:Exactly. But Joe, you've done the same thing. You took your personal conviction that MB is OK and applied it to the OP/everyone.
Not exactly, because I also acknowledge individual conscience. I do believe that in an objective sense, MB is not a sin and not wrong. However, on an individual level, it may be "wrong" for you or the OP. It continues to puzzle me why some Christians apply the concept of stewardship to most other areas of life, except when it comes to their sexuality. Which is better? A man who never MBs and struggles greatly with temptation and lust - OR - a man who MBs and keeps his powerful sex drive at bay, making it easier to resist temptation and avoid lust? I say the latter is better. And it can be done with success and does not bring about false guilt unnecessarily. It really bothers me the way some people talk about MB, they can't make a solid Scriptural case against it, but they basically preach its "evils" and bring down shame and guilt on people over the issue. I don't think that reflects God's will in the issue at all.
Thanks for NOT bringing out the flame throwers, I do appreciate it . Not that it really matters because like I've stated before, on this issue, I wear my turn-out gear
. And I do want everyone to know that the last time this subject was brought up, I did some really in-depth study on it. I used to say masturbation was a SIN - well, ok, I concede on that point. I won't exactly call MB a sin - but I still believe it's wrong.
I admire that, and applaud your willingness to evaluate your own beliefs and actually have an open mind willing to change your views if appropriate.
Deelmo wrote:Sex is a gift from God meant for marriage. Sex is between two spouses. Sex (ejaculation) releases certain bonding chemicals in the brain. God meant for us to bond with spouses, not ourselves.
I think we're back to conflation again, as MB and sex are completely different things. Sex=intercourse, sex ≠ ejaculation. NEVER in all my years of MB have I ever felt any kind of bonding or weird chemically caused feelings about "myself". In fact, MB is purely a physical process. Some pastors have had the audacity to describe MB as a homosexual act, which is absurd. They ask dumb questions like "what do you think about". Let me just remind everyone that porn and MB are not tied together necessarily.
Deelmo wrote:We are suppose to have self-control in all things. We are suppose pray on all things. We are supposed to listen to our/The Holy Spirit. Corinthians 10:23-24
Self control is important, and I would argue that MB is a tool that one can use to help keep his hormones under "control" so that he is not led around by his sexual desires. If MB is what it takes for someone to practice self-control sexually, then I say God bless you! If you think utter and complete abstinence and suppression of the sex drive is the way to go, then I would point you to some disturbing statistics that show this method to be utterly ineffective in general, its just not working.
Deelmo wrote:I'm not going to argue the sin part. But my personal conviction is that one should do NOTHING that one wouldn't do in front of the Lord.
I'm glad we don't have the sin issue to argue over. But I must say that last sentence is capable of doing some serious damage to people. I talked to a woman once who was a drug/sex addict. She went to a "religious" organization/home and lived there for months. People there told her that line, that when tempted to MB, just imagine Jesus standing next to you and that will make you stop. Well, for one thing, it didn't work, but additionally its a very cruel thing to say to someone, especially if they struggle with their sexuality. I understand the good motivations behind that kind of statement, but I think its very harmful and destructive. In addition, God created sex and sexual function, it was His idea, in fact, man and woman, fully sexual - is the ONLY thing God said was "Very Good". Shame does not come from God for the believer, it comes from other people and Satan.