Me and my fiance have differing views on mb

What limits should we set before marriage?
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby OnlyGodCanJudgeMe » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:06 am

thisbejoe7 wrote:
....I think its so important is that so much unnecessary damage occurs when well meaning Christians use fear, guilt and overspiritualization to bring condemnation on people. I have a problem with that.


Thank you TBJOE for making that point. I wanted to say that but couldn't put it into words.

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Job29Man » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:39 pm

andy_m wrote:Any advice?


Our policy is generally to go with the opinion of the spouse who is the more cautious/conservative one.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MadeNew » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:25 pm

Im considering asking her if it would be a deal breaker for her, if i stop trying to stop mn and only do it occasionally to relieve sexual needs, cos its natural, its fine, theres nothing wrong w that, and it wont affect our marriage, (unless I'm a selfish lazy bum who would prefer my hand to my wife when we're married, and thats ridiculous, I'm not that way...) cos so far, I've only told her that I'm putting forth my best effort. ..... sound like a good plan?

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Deelmo » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:29 am

andy_m wrote:Im considering asking her if it would be a deal breaker for her, if i stop trying to stop mn and only do it occasionally to relieve sexual needs, cos its natural, its fine, theres nothing wrong w that, and it wont affect our marriage, (unless I'm a selfish lazy bum who would prefer my hand to my wife when we're married, and thats ridiculous, I'm not that way...) cos so far, I've only told her that I'm putting forth my best effort. ..... sound like a good plan?


Define "occasionally". Not for me, for your FW. That word means different things to different people. Don't set your self up for a future disagreement. Be specific. Occasionally means = 1xmonth? 2xmonth? /////. It's kinda like saying "I'll be back later" Later means = 1 hour? 6 hours? Before dark? after dark?.

I still say that you need to continue "putting forth your best effort". There's nothing with your FW expecting "your best" from you.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby poetess » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:00 am

You know, before we married, I asked DH about porn use (because that would have been a deal-breaker for me) but didn't ask him about masturbation (because that honestly didn't seem to be "any of my business"--his body wasn't mine yet). I did tell him I wanted the right of first refusal after we got married (and I've never told him no, go take care of it yourself).

I'm not saying that all fiancees "should" feel that way, just that I did. But my personal opinion is that one cannot bind another's conscience with a "feeling" that something is sin. (I had a friend who tried to convince me that it would be wrong to hold my FH's hand; I considered it to be her private opinion and not binding on me.) If you have clear biblical evidence that something is wrong, then show it. If you know it's a debatable issue but it's one you cannot live with, that is relevant after marriage. (If you think drinking is biblically permissible, but you don't want wine in your own home, that's an acceptable position.)

My husband and I are in the age group where women's sex drive is as high as men's or higher, so I have no issue with fully satisfying him. If we were younger, we might have had to deal with "what will we do if I am pregnant / having my period / sick for two or three days, or if you want it three times a day and once or twice is enough for me?" In fact, if I was not inclined to be generous, he might have had to deal with "what if I want it three or four times a week and you think once every week or two is enough?"

Since this is an issue where you disagree, and an issue that will probably continue to be relevant after marriage, at least periodically, it is something you need to work out. If I were talking to your wife, I would say this: "Your husband will be the leader, the head of your home. You are going to have to trust the way he leads your home. Can you accept his leadership sexually and submit to his choices in that leadership? (That does NOT mean that if he decides he wants something that you find over the line, that you cannot say anything and you 'have to do it.' But it does mean you can relax into his leadership and know he has your best interests at heart.) Obviously if something is morally wrong, such as porn, you will be free to insist that he does not do it, and even to call in church leadership if he is involved in unrepentant sin. But in 'gray' areas such as masturbation, do you feel 'safe' enough to let him make the ultimate decision, or would it be a deal breaker for you if you knew today that a year into marriage your husband's drive would be a little higher than yours and he would be masturbating two or three times a month?"

Because honestly, unless you are convinced it is actually wrong (even if that it is simply wrong because it hurts her) and that is enough power for you to stop doing it, OR she is able to let you have freedom to make the decision, this will continue to be a conflict. If you don't do it in order to placate her (but not because you actually believe it is wrong), you could easily either resent her or do it anyway (either in secret or not caring whether it hurts her). Ultimately you need to lead in this, and she needs to "accept" and follow your lead. (I would counsel her from this angle.) If this would be a deal breaker for her, then this is something you need to work through.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Job29Man » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:40 am

andy_m wrote:Im considering asking her if it would be a deal breaker for her, if i stop trying to stop mn and only do it occasionally to relieve sexual needs, cos its natural, its fine, theres nothing wrong w that, and it wont affect our marriage, (unless I'm a selfish lazy bum who would prefer my hand to my wife when we're married, and thats ridiculous, I'm not that way...) cos so far, I've only told her that I'm putting forth my best effort. ..... sound like a good plan?


No, this is NOT a good plan at all. Consider this foundational scripture about the married sex relationship...

Bible
1 Corinthians Chapter 7 ... 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


This passage clearly shows that you are not to be in authority over your own body but your wife has this authority over you. If she says "You may not masturbate." Then that is what you must obey. By the same token then it is her responsibility to be diligent in the marriage bed to serve your needs. The scripture also indicates that if you lack self-control you are to seek her out for sex. You may not be able to picture it now, but you actually *can* go 10-20-40 years without masturbating even once in a marriage.

In the normal course of marriage you will be your wife's authority and she will have no authority over you. The only exception to this is in married sex. There you both have authority over each other, and not over your own bodies.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby ledgemoor » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:46 pm

Andy, there are really two issues here. Masturbation now, and after you are married. Am I correct that her "After you are married" concerns is the biggest issue for her?

The problem is that is largely an unknown at this point, and it will be hard to commit to a particular course of action at this point. Hopefully she can understand this and be willing to learn as you go along.

It may be that she will demand frequent sex, and you won't be able to masturbate even if you wanted to :D. Maybe you won't wake up with a hard-on at 3 AM and won't need to get it taken care of so you can go back to sleep. But regardless of the level of her and your respective drives, there will come times when sex will not be an option -- after childbirth for sure, and who knows what else can crop up in the course of a lifetime. DW had cancer, and we did without for nearly three months.

So discuss what you would do in these cases. Also, will you have sex during her periods? Is she OK giving you hand jobs, or does she consider that masturbation?

I would be very hesitant to commit to a marriage where masturbating would be totally off the table. But, you can assure her that it will not take precedence over her needs. That's no problem at all!
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby txtwindad » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:07 pm

Job29Man wrote:
andy_m wrote:Im considering asking her if it would be a deal breaker for her, if i stop trying to stop mn and only do it occasionally to relieve sexual needs, cos its natural, its fine, theres nothing wrong w that, and it wont affect our marriage, (unless I'm a selfish lazy bum who would prefer my hand to my wife when we're married, and thats ridiculous, I'm not that way...) cos so far, I've only told her that I'm putting forth my best effort. ..... sound like a good plan?


No, this is a good plan at all. Consider this foundational scripture about the married sex relationship...

Bible
1 Corinthians Chapter 7 ... 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


This passage clearly shows that you are not to be in authority over your own body but your wife has this authority over you. If she says "You may not masturbate." Then that is what you must obey. By the same token then it is her responsibility to be diligent in the marriage bed to serve your needs. The scripture also indicates that if you lack self-control you are to seek her out for sex. You may not be able to picture it now, but you actually *can* go 10-20-40 years without masturbating even once in a marriage.

In the normal course of marriage you will be your wife's authority and she will have no authority over you. The only exception to this is in married sex. There you both have authority over each other, and not over your own bodies.


They aren't married yet, Job. I would agree with you if they were. But until they are married he has not given her authority over his body. I do think the engagement is a promise of that to come though. And as a result her wishes should weigh heavily in his decision.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby Job29Man » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:09 pm

Sorry, I was thinking this was about "after we are married."
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MadeNew » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:51 am

yes, before we are married. after we are married - that will be a whole different conversation. so... my plan - still a good plan?

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby mamame » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:10 am

Andy,
Have you discussed what each of you anticipates as far as your marriage bed?

How often does she anticipate having sex? I know many women who have e gone into marriage thinking that once a week is more than generous, while others look forward to it every day and yet others see it as a distasteful chore to be tolerated only when necessary.

How do each of you view it? I what about those times when she may be physically unavailable, what are her expectations?

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MadeNew » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:02 am

mamame wrote:Andy,
Have you discussed what each of you anticipates as far as your marriage bed?



Not yet, not in detail. but i definitely will. however, we both have read For Women Only and For Men ONly. For now Im just trying to figure out how to handle my sex drive before we are married.

cos I've Been trying to quit mb, but recently have discovered the christian position that mb is ok and not unhealthy, so I've been trying to figure out a way to talk about it with her and take it from something that's causing me guilt to something that i know she's ok with and I'm ok with.

or at least, to take it to a point where i know that we agreed to disagree on it, but still she's not feeling like she's going into a marriage with a pervert dude who's got some major stuff wrong with him. not that she's feeling that way already, cos she is not condemning mb. but she is apprehensive about me doing it, cos of me potentially being disappointed in her as a sexual partner. Focus on the Family kinda lumped the two together: past sexual partners, and masturbation, so when she read that, she felt that if i still masturbate, i might be not satisfied by her. but i guess i just need to explain to her that if i mb when I'm single it won't hurt our marriage, (and I've already explained to her that there has been plenty of time since I've engaged in porn and fornication and those images have been fading away and they are not any more a major temptation cos God has done lots of healing in that area already).

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MadeNew » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:31 am

whew. we talked. everything is fine :-)

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby txtwindad » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:32 am

andy_m wrote:whew. we talked. everything is fine :-)


Wonderful! Great practice for the sticky issues you'll run into during your married life as well.. You can always build problems up to terrible proportions in your mind. Much better to sit down and talk them out with a spirit of love. Your spouses needs should outweigh, but not eclipse your own needs. If each of you has this mindset, you will have few problems that amount to much.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby thisbejoe7 » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:06 pm

andy_m wrote:whew. we talked. everything is fine :-)


Would you mind sharing more about the resolution? This is like watching a great movie and the end getting cut off just as the story comes to a climax. :D

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MusicianForever » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:31 am

andy_m wrote:whew. we talked. everything is fine :-)

Good. :D

Deelmo wrote:Masturbation is wrong. Just totally wrong. For all the reasons that Leah stated plus more. I have been a porn addict, and a bad one at that. I quit porn and MB almost two before I married. Cold turkey. It can be done. You can do it. I consider masturbation to be self-sex and that was NOT in God's design. (look for others here on TMB to pull out their flame throwers at me) I appreciate your maturity in recognizing that fact that your porn history probably taints MB for you. The attitude towards sex that porn creates has been explained very well be Leah. Your attitude towards sex should be ALL about your wife. Every bit of your sexual energy should be focused on your wife, not yourself. And hers on you. Now that you are engaged - start focusing your mind on her. Let your sexual energy build towards her (don't cross the line!!!) IMHO, masturbation is the cheap and easy way out. So what if you may frustrated - so what. Maybe (again IMHO) God designed it this way so you would turn to your spouse. AND WORK TOGETHER ON IT.
Now, everyone put up the flame throwers. I'm not saying MB is a sin, but it is wrong. Many things not specifically mentioned in the Bible are wrong - ie: pot, drugs, smoking. You must do what The Holy Spirit guides YOU to do.

+1000 (And I know I’m making myself awfully unpopular around here by agreeing with that!)

andy_m wrote: I still struggle with masturbation. Having discovered this forum recently, I am now ambivalent on issue of masturbation (whereas I used to think its absolutely sinful).

When I was growing up nobody ever told me it was “wrong”, and it never even occured to me that it could be wrong...until I felt convicted by God after the first time I did it.

After visiting TMB I became convinced for a while that it was okay, but I ended up feeling convicted by God again that I shouldn’t do it. I’m with Deelmo on this one—you must do what the Holy Spirit guides you to do. I’d recommend you seek God about this one.
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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby txtwindad » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:42 am

MusicianForever wrote:
andy_m wrote:whew. we talked. everything is fine :-)

Good. :D

Deelmo wrote:Masturbation is wrong. Just totally wrong. For all the reasons that Leah stated plus more. I have been a porn addict, and a bad one at that. I quit porn and MB almost two before I married. Cold turkey. It can be done. You can do it. I consider masturbation to be self-sex and that was NOT in God's design. (look for others here on TMB to pull out their flame throwers at me) I appreciate your maturity in recognizing that fact that your porn history probably taints MB for you. The attitude towards sex that porn creates has been explained very well be Leah. Your attitude towards sex should be ALL about your wife. Every bit of your sexual energy should be focused on your wife, not yourself. And hers on you. Now that you are engaged - start focusing your mind on her. Let your sexual energy build towards her (don't cross the line!!!) IMHO, masturbation is the cheap and easy way out. So what if you may frustrated - so what. Maybe (again IMHO) God designed it this way so you would turn to your spouse. AND WORK TOGETHER ON IT.
Now, everyone put up the flame throwers. I'm not saying MB is a sin, but it is wrong. Many things not specifically mentioned in the Bible are wrong - ie: pot, drugs, smoking. You must do what The Holy Spirit guides YOU to do.

+1000 (And I know I’m making myself awfully unpopular around here by agreeing with that!)

andy_m wrote: I still struggle with masturbation. Having discovered this forum recently, I am now ambivalent on issue of masturbation (whereas I used to think its absolutely sinful).

When I was growing up nobody ever told me it was “wrong”, and it never even occured to me that it could be wrong...until I felt convicted by God after the first time I did it.

After visiting TMB I became convinced for a while that it was okay, but I ended up feeling convicted by God again that I shouldn’t do it. I’m with Deelmo on this one—you must do what the Holy Spirit guides you to do. I’d recommend you seek God about this one.


I have no issue with you stating that MB is wrong for you and that the Holy Spirit has dealt with you on this matter. The problem comes when you agree with Deelmo's statment that "MB is wrong. Just totally wrong". It is fine for you that you feel a clear calling not to MB. But, do not assign your calling to others. There is no Biblical justification for this position that withstands scrutiny. It has already been argued here ad nauseum.

[Mod Note: Your use of quotes here is too extensive. Probably quoting a single sentence would suffice. I'll leave it up though so that others may learn. Please do not quote large blocks of posts when a sentence or phrase will suffice.]
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Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby landschooner » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:56 pm

@txtwindad's post - I agree.

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby OnlyGodCanJudgeMe » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:56 pm

andy_m wrote:whew. we talked. everything is fine :-)


Awesome. Glad it worked out for you. I also would like to know the details if you are up to posting them. Your choice. May God bless you and your upcoming marriage.

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Re: Me and my fiance have differing views on masturbation...

Postby MadeNew » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:38 pm

OnlyGodCanJudgeMe wrote:
andy_m wrote:whew. we talked. everything is fine :-)


Awesome. Glad it worked out for you. I also would like to know the details if you are up to posting them. Your choice. May God bless you and your upcoming marriage.

I couldnt say anything for most of the day, and she was like "whats wrong" so i was like "well im trying to figure out how to talk to u about something awkward" lol...

but anyways...i was like "ok so previously we talked and i said i'll do my best to quit mb, but now i dont think i can quit that, and that i even should waste my energy trying to quit that, besides, i dont think its wrong, its something my body needs, otherwise i go nuts"

then we talked about how i dont find that the bible prohibits it. then how mark driscoll teaches against it. then how james dobson says its not like sinful. and she was like "its ur decision, as long as ur concsience is ok w it". so i was like "cool :-) "

and... like i predicted she was concerned that i might prefer my hand as opposed to her. to which i responded by promising that i wont be selfserving and too lazy to pleasure her and depriving her of sex, simply cos i prefer my hand. * edit: I meant to say that I won't prefer my hand to her.

then i wanted to talk about, what if our sex drives are different and stuff, and i still might need it. but on that one, we just decided that we'll cross that bridge when we get there :-)
Last edited by MadeNew on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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