Porn w/o lust?

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
doug-h
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby doug-h » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:28 pm

TJC wrote: To think that a young man or woman is thinking clearly on the issue of sex when the temptation is upon them is ludicrous.


Curious if you are even aware of what you are writing. Now it appears that you are saying that if you are tempted, that it can't be lust. It is almost as if you are saying that temptation excuses sin, because you aren't thinking clearly when you are tempted. I can assure you that is wrong thinking. It is not opinion, or conjecture.

Just wondering if you would clarify what you are saying.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby sunny-dee » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:38 pm

TJC wrote:With all due respect, that is only an opinion, one you seem highly invested in.


Pardon me if I'm missing it here, but do you mean that saying it's not educational is an opinion? Well, in a sense, but I think I'm on pretty firm ground here because 1) that is not the intent of even the pornographers themselves and 2) what they put out is widely inaccurate. You see real body parts, but the porn itself is nothing like real. I can't watch a rom-com in place of marriage counseling, and porn is in an educational sense like that. Or, to look at it another way, whatever you're learning, you're learning the wrong things. So maybe more accurate to say it's not a useful education?

I did say appears, not that it is. It is assuming to know the person's heart. To think that a young man or woman is thinking clearly on the issue of sex when the temptation is upon them is ludicrous. Most especially when they are left to fend for themselves on the issue.

doug said this quite well, but just to emphasize -- looking at a hormone-crazed teenager who is looking at porn in lieu of sex and then using that state of mind to call porn educational is ... off base.

Just out of curiosity, why did you feel the need to address this comment rather than the one I posted after?

I was typing my response already when the other came up.

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TJC
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby TJC » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:33 pm

Clearly your mind is made up already, so there is no point in discussing it any further. Apparently you either think I am lying, or in some sort of denial. In either case, as I said before, I am not here to argue. You can either accept that what I said about myself is true, or not. It doesn't matter all that much to me. This is painful enough without getting caught up in what people think of me. It is probably best if I stay away from any further discussion, for my own personal sanity.
This is my beloved and this is my friend. Song of Solomon 5:16

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Leah
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby Leah » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:01 pm

Sorry, I would not let fiction or fantasy inform my reality. What other couples do is not interesting to me. What Jake and I do is the main point because we are married to each other.
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“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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MyWifesMan
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby MyWifesMan » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:36 am

Few thoughts:

NO - temptation does not equal sinful lust. Even Jesus was tempted - and "in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin" (Hebrews 4:15).

It is our RESPONSE to temptation that can be sinful lust. All manner of things and situations present themselves - things that we don't necessarily seek out - that pose temptation to us, that lead to sin.

In this discussion, while I do see merit in understanding ourselves, our histories, and our triggers to whatever sin - be it porn or anything else, I also see a huge post-modernist compulsion that is complete psychobabble, that makes us think we have to comprehensively understand the intricate dynamics of our behavior in response to our temptations, or how our we might dissect the minutia of what part is sin, what isn't, where one begins and the other ends, and to accurately parse all of our complex motivations and causes. The reality is, God has shown and instructed us as to what sin is. Craving and desiring something that is not rightfully ours and that is forbidden to us is sin. Period! And any Christian (and only a Christian) who has experienced and/or studied the horrific impact of porn and it's long legacy of horrific devastation to marriages and families, who also has studied Scripture to understand it is a sin that is highly addictive, deceptive, and a very difficult habit to break, should realize they already know ALL they need to. We don't need to perfectly understand ourselves, our motivations and triggers - while all those can certainly be beneficial - ultimately, we simply need to FLEE the temptation and sin - and at first awareness of it. And for all aspects we feel it might be useful or fulfilling - which are lies we buy into - we should instead turn to God to take away desires not healthy for us, and to fulfill us in HIS ways, to spiritually fill us and our true needs, as opposed to our dependency upon things we might seek out that are sinful, that we often convince ourselves we need. And, if we're not careful, if we don't allow God to do the fulfilling of the desires of our hearts and minds, we'll simply go from one sin to other ones, or back again, seeking to fill our voids that only God can truly fill.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby LiamJ » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:03 pm

Count me in as a man who thinks you can watch porn without lusting at all after the people having sex, but not trying to justify anything.

doug-h
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby doug-h » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:55 pm

I'm going to say this, and then I'm out.

If you say that porn is sin, and If you tell yourself that you don't want to ever watch it again, and If you find yourself watching it despite those two previous statements being true, then you are lusting. I am not going to say you are lusting after the person's displayed, or any particular act or activity, but you are lusting.

YOU ARE LUSTING AFTER PORN!!!!!!.

You can call it whatever you like, you can bend the facts any way you like, and you can deny all you like. It doesn't change the fact that you are lusting.

It is almost the textbook definition of lust.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/lust/

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Leah
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby Leah » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:00 pm

LiamJ wrote:Count me in as a man who thinks you can watch porn without lusting at all after the people having sex, but not trying to justify anything.


That sounds a little too convenient. It may well be that I don't want the people I see, but it is not too much of a stretch to think it is lust to see strangers doing something because my spouse doesn't do that to me.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Cayenne
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby Cayenne » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:32 pm

I don't get it. Why is such a big deal made about the male mind and the visual Rolodex, all things for us wives of men who have used porn are told to help us recover, if porn can have nothing to do with lust? Why are almost all the recovery articles I've read, (and I'm not claiming to be any expert, but I've still read hundreds,) calling porn the sin of lust? How are all these sexual addictions counselors so very, very wrong when this is what they do every day? Why do I hear among all the arguments for why porn might not be lust.... all the classic things we wives are told our addicted husbands may falsely believe until they are free of porn?
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

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TJC
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby TJC » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:58 am

In he end it really doesn't matter if a particular individual can or not. I hear the pain from the many who have commented here. I'm extremely introspective, and posted on this subject to try and make sense of my own feelings and reactions. I've stated this elsewhere, although not here, that porn use really has nothing to do with one's spouse, or how they feel about them. The relationship may make it worse, but it is not the catalyst. My past struggle with porn was completely separate from any issues DW and I might have. I say past, because I have had no desire to indulge in porn or MB in quite awhile. My last time was almost with a sense similar to what I imagine the practice of cutting, or other types of self-harm is like. If there were one thing I would want those who have been hurt, by their partners indulgence in this area to hear from me, is that it's not your fault, nor is it yours to fix. You can help, but in the end, it is the individual person's struggle with being content with the life God has given them that is the problem. Thus the chasing after fantasy.
I know I am in the upper 2% in age of most who are here, so my perspective is somewhat different than most. My aim in any post I have put up since my opening thread regarding my own marriage, has been with the intent of promoting understanding between couples. I never intended to hurt or cause anyone pain. I discuss everything I post here with DW and it has served to help us understand each other better. We are truly closer and more intimate than we have ever been in our 40+ years of marriage. However, we still have a long way to go....
This is my beloved and this is my friend. Song of Solomon 5:16


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