Porn w/o lust?

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
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beautyfromashes
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:44 am

SavedandSexy wrote:This is probably one of those things that God will have to reveal to him before he will really believe it. The world has done such a good job of saying men just enjoy seeing women & there's nothing wrong with that!


That's where I'm at too. DH is not really one that can just be talked out of something. He's gotta think through it all and decide for himself. Which is often a good thing, but not always.

I talked about confronting him about in this thread. As of our last conversation, he wasn't going to look anymore, but he still didn't think it was wrong. He said he was quitting for my sake, since it's a weakness for me. (That kind of got my dander up, but I guess I appreciate his sacrifice? Maybe?) I told him if he did, I'd go to the church leadership. I installed accountability software. We haven't talked about it since. I'm still praying that God will change his heart. I've seen a lot of growth and change in him recently in other areas, so I think God won't let him go on this either. ;)

I guess I just started this thread trying to understand if other men thought like DH too. Or at least could explain it to me a little better, since he couldn't. I've seen other posts recently talking about being lust-free, but still slipping with porn from time to time. That made me think that maybe other people thought like DH and it wasn't just a crazy excuse.
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby angellove » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:26 pm

Can you look at porn without lust? Does that make porn okay?

My DH has claimed that when he watches porn, he doesn't lust. I've heard similar claims from others here. Honestly, I just don't understand that. I mean, you're watching other people having sex, you're MBing while watching it, how is that not lust?


It sounds like your DH just wants to make himself seem like he 'has it all together'. From what I have seen and know of men viewing porn, boredom is sometimes a reason that they view.

Still doesn't make it right or good.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby HerKnight » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:05 pm

I read through the replies quickly so I apologize if this was mentioned already.

Semantical games are just that. The word translated "lust" in the NT is the word for "a very strong desire". It is actually used positively in a few places such as when Jesus said that he had desired to eat the last supper with the disciples. But elsewhere it refers more often to idolatry or coveting. In other words, the use of the word is around desiring something I do not have or making something a focus that should not be.

When we include the entire context of scripture and look at the fact that sexual satisfaction is to be enjoyed strictly within the confines of marriage, we may want to try and argue that it is not lust, but it will still be a violation of the sexual fidelity that God calls me to with my wife.
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"Our Lord finds our desires not too strong but too weak... We are far too easily pleased" - C.S Lewis, The Weight of Glory

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:22 pm

wifeacacia wrote:Would he be okay googling those things, or watching porn, if Jesus were sitting next to him on the couch? Maybe he can honestly answer "yes," idk, but if I had a brain that worked like the average male brain seems to work (vs. my brain which say, "people, could you put some clothes on puh-leez! Sheesh!" :roll: ), I wouldn't be able to honestly google something like that with Jesus there. Okay, it's be weird even as a woman to google something like that with Jesus there, because it would just make no sense. Unless I'm a plastic surgeon doing some kind of research on breast enhancement and I'm sure even then there are more professional ways to go about it . . . . . just sayin'. :D


I think he would say no, but knowing him, his argument would be he wouldn't be comfortable having sex with me, or going to the bathroom, or picking his nose, or a whole list of other things that aren't sinful while sitting next to Jesus. (Of course, He knows about all that anyways, but you know..,)
Deep intimacy always requires work, acceptance, and forgiveness. Lots of it. ~~ Linda Dillow

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Porn w/o lust?

Postby purelife » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:57 pm

I believe that the real issue here is, is he coveting another. If he is becoming aroused by another then there is no other answer than he coveting someone other than his wife. Call it what ever you want but if there is sexual arousal from anything other than your spouse that is sin. If I am wrong please point to a scripture that goes against this train of thought.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby JDFbride » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:48 pm

Well, I can say my husband has seen porn without it inducing lust. Why? We believe that God supernaturally protected him from lustful thoughts when he was required by a job he held to take snapshots of websites visited by people on his network during the day. It was a terrible job, truly, and while it didn't incite lust, it DID effect our MB. He would come home from work and want to use our intimate time as an eraser, to clean his mind from the images he saw during the day. We were newly married and I would be more accepting of our sex life for this purpose now than I was then.....thankfully that job was just a stepping stone and he was only in it for a few months.

CHOOSING to veiw porn and not feel lustful feelings or have lustful thoughts, yeah, I don't think that is kosher.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby beautyfromashes » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:49 am

purelife wrote:I believe that the real issue here is, is he coveting another. If he is becoming aroused by another then there is no other answer than he coveting someone other than his wife. Call it what ever you want but if there is sexual arousal from anything other than your spouse that is sin. If I am wrong please point to a scripture that goes against this train of thought.


Ah, but see his argument was lust=coveting=a strong desire for something that doesn't belong to you. He said that being sexually aroused didn't mean that he was coveting. It was just appreciating their beauty. I agree with you though.

JDFbride wrote:Well, I can say my husband has seen porn without it inducing lust. Why? We believe that God supernaturally protected him from lustful thoughts when he was required by a job he held to take snapshots of websites visited by people on his network during the day. It was a terrible job, truly, and while it didn't incite lust, it DID effect our MB. He would come home from work and want to use our intimate time as an eraser, to clean his mind from the images he saw during the day. We were newly married and I would be more accepting of our sex life for this purpose now than I was then.....thankfully that job was just a stepping stone and he was only in it for a few months.

CHOOSING to veiw porn and not feel lustful feelings or have lustful thoughts, yeah, I don't think that is kosher.


Yes, I do think there are circumstances where you can look at porn and not lust. I have a friend who has a job monitoring computers and she does have to look at porn sometimes. She HATES it. The child pornography task forces are another one that come to mind.
Deep intimacy always requires work, acceptance, and forgiveness. Lots of it. ~~ Linda Dillow

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Porn w/o lust?

Postby Mrs. Tomorrow » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:59 pm

I think these last couple of posts have hit the nail on the head. It does depend on the heart behind it and your reasons for seeking it out. If it is a grueling task you must complete for a job, or an unfortunate circumstance in your marriage that you need to deal with (i.e. Leah's situation), then I think it can be done without lust and/or sin. If you can look at that stuff and truly have only compassion/sorrow/disapointment for the people involved and are not turned on by it, then I don't think you would be sinning. God knows/sees what the people involved in that industry do, and no Christian would say God is sinning.

However, if you are bored/aroused/stimulated and seeking out porn (especially to masturbate to), I don't believe that sin (whatever label you want to put on it) is not a factor. There is no scenario where you could convince me that a man googling "Angelina Jolie naked" and getting an erection has absolutely no sin involved.

I think that this is an area that you may just need to give to God. If your husband isn't looking at porn, that's a good start. But God will have to be the one to convict him and truly change his heart. I doubt you or anyone here could/is going to argue him over to our side.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby Leah » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:14 pm

I don't think it has to be a "strong desire" with a sexual slant. If one is seeking to fill the visual senses with sexual images, that's enough to call it wrong for me. It would be the same as an alcoholic saying they drank because they were thirsty, or a glutton saying they overate because they were hungry.

It is a sensual lust, not necessarily a sexual one. Seeking to fill the senses outside a proper context is wrong.
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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby mrjwilliams » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:34 pm

There are really two problems that are at the heart of the porn issue in marriage and neither of them have to do with porn.

First: Addiction - If you are doing something that causes you to hide or lie to your spouse, what is the issue?
It's the hiding and lying. This is an addiction issue. Your spouse will be upset at the marriage breakdown due to the lying and usually doesn't know how to clarify it that way and will blame the porn. Like if porn didn't exist, he wouldn't have lied? We make an easy excuse because we don't want to admit we married a liar, instead we blame the porn.

Second: Intent - Are you doing something that is having a real negative impact on your marriage, such as viewing another female for the intent of having real sex with her? Are you viewing porn for the pursuit of having extra-marital relations or to avoid having sex with your spouse? Is there an intent that draws you away from seeking your spouse? There's a difference between fantasizing about finding $50,000 in a briefcase and spending it vs. really finding $50,000 and not turning it in. The first is clearly okay and the second is not.

It is important to note that neither of these problems have anything to do with subject matter. The subject matter could be money, alcohol, work, drugs, etc...
Money is not bad in any way in and of itself, and pictures/videos of naked bodies are just that. If you intentionally pursue these subject matters in lieu of pursuing your spouse, then there's a problem.

Many couples have great marriages with different levels of porn involved. They use it for many different reasons. Just read - I don't know.. ANYWHERE online.?..?

With that said, the porn industry does a lot of harm and should not be supported in any way. The same goes for the alcohol industry. You get my point.
If you are subject to either addiction or intentionally seeking sex not from your spouse, then STAY AWAY FROM IT.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby Arogen » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:41 pm

I'm no expert on porn usage, but isn't it the case that when somebody watches one 'level' of porn enough, that it gets to a point where he is desensitized to it (ie: feels no lust form watching it) and moves on to a more extreme level? Somehow ' I'm desensitized so it's OK ' doesn't fly with me, because you likewise are desensitized to your spouse.

Just stay away from it, focus on how good you can become, not on how bad you can get away with being.
Last edited by Arogen on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby PS56 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:09 pm

mrjwilliams wrote:There are really two problems that are at the heart of the porn issue in marriage and neither of them have to do with porn.

First: Addiction - If you are doing something that causes you to hide or lie to your spouse, what is the issue?
It's the hiding and lying. This is an addiction issue. Your spouse will be upset at the marriage breakdown due to the lying and usually doesn't know how to clarify it that way and will blame the porn. Like if porn didn't exist, he wouldn't have lied? We make an easy excuse because we don't want to admit we married a liar, instead we blame the porn.

Second: Intent - Are you doing something that is having a real negative impact on your marriage, such as viewing another female for the intent of having real sex with her? Are you viewing porn for the pursuit of having extra-marital relations or to avoid having sex with your spouse? Is there an intent that draws you away from seeking your spouse? There's a difference between fantasizing about finding $50,000 in a briefcase and spending it vs. really finding $50,000 and not turning it in. The first is clearly okay and the second is not.

It is important to note that neither of these problems have anything to do with subject matter. The subject matter could be money, alcohol, work, drugs, etc...
Money is not bad in any way in and of itself, and pictures/videos of naked bodies are just that. If you intentionally pursue these subject matters in lieu of pursuing your spouse, then there's a problem.

Many couples have great marriages with different levels of porn involved. They use it for many different reasons. Just read - I don't know.. ANYWHERE online.?..?

With that said, the porn industry does a lot of harm and should not be supported in any way. The same goes for the alcohol industry. You get my point.
If you are subject to either addiction or intentionally seeking sex not from your spouse, then STAY AWAY FROM IT.


I think your logic is flawed in a number of respects, and several of your statements or assumptions are also factually incorrect. Among other things:

1. The problem with porn is not just the lying. It is the lusting after other people, bringing other people into the marriage bed, etc. Porn is a serious problem, in addition to the lying/secrecy. And watching porn and hiding it is not the same a lying about whether you played golf instead of visiting a sick friend.

2. Viewing porn always has some harmful or negative impact on a marriage and one's relationship with one's spouse. This has been proven time and time again. Indeed, it is so obvious, and so well documented, that it is basically along the lines of whether jumping off a five-story building is harmful to your body. Now, we could get specific and support all of the arguments against porn, like we could give specific reasons why one should jump off a five-story building, but on this forum, there's little point to that. Given the experiences, beliefs, and knowledge/wisdom of the people who post here, everyone already knows better.

3. I suppose it is possible that some couples have reasonably successful marriages with some level of porn involved, but there is no doubt that the marriage is not all that God intended it to be, and no doubt that it could be better without the porn. As to the notion that one should "read around," I'm sure if one reads around online one can also find lots of discussion about how many "swinging couples" have great marriages. :roll:

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby thisbejoe7 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:39 am

This has been one of the best discussions of this topic I've ever seen. Just to add my two cents, I've never found many of the anti-porn arguments very convincing or satisfactory. Most of the time I think people just equate arousal with lust and as such I think its a mistake to make an assumption of the viewer. However, that being said, it does seem unwise and it does actually cause harm. I look at it like this, the women in porn are typically not doing it because they just love it or want to be a porn star - sure some of them may be, but from the interviews I've seen with people who used to be in the porn business - that isn't the broader picture.

Also from the way the women are treated, the drug abuse problems, the medical risks, etc - all of that makes it unwise for me to pay money either directly or via free sites that have advertisements. Even if you are getting it for free, those advertisements go to fund further abuse and objectification of women. Also for consideration are the segments of porn where the girls/women/boys are trafficking victims. I just don't want to support that stuff in any way!

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby PS56 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:22 am

There is a great deal of porn today that merely involves husband and wife sharing videos of themselves on the internet, either on pay sites or free sites. In such instances, there is arguably none of the issues (trafficking, abuse, medical risks, coercion) associated with the "professional" porn industry. So if you remove the issue of harm to the performers associated with the type of risks or dangers you reference, you are still stuck with the issue of whether porn is harmful to the marriage relationship, or to the viewer. So the question is, would you say it is not harmful for a husband and/or wife to view on a regular basis pornographic videos that are voluntarily made by another married couple who just get a kick out of having others see them engage in sex? Would you say that there is no danger to the marriage relationship of the viewer(s) from such activity?

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby thisbejoe7 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:29 am

I am not talking about hard cases and isolated pockets of various "types" of porn. But since you ask, I think the risk of sin or harm lies in the heart of the viewer. Can I say for that for EVERYONE it would be 100% harmful or sinful in every situation and context - no I cannot. There is always a danger for harm and for sin when the human heart is concerned.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby PS56 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:43 am

It's not really isolated pockets or the hard case anymore. The industry has changed significantly in the past several years due to the internet. So-called "amateur" porn involving married or dating couples makes up a huge percentage of porn on the internet, which is why the professional porn producers are struggling.

thisbejoe7 wrote: But since you ask, I think the risk of sin or harm lies in the heart of the viewer. Can I say for that for EVERYONE it would be 100% harmful or sinful in every situation and context - no I cannot. There is always a danger for harm and for sin when the human heart is concerned.


Yes, I would not say that there is danger or sin 100% of the time in every circumstance. For example, there might be no danger (and presumably there is no sin) for someone (i.e., an HR rep) who finds it disgusting but has to look at it on the computer of an office employee who is downloading porn at work. The point I was really getting at, is that if a husband and/or wife are looking at porn regularly because they like it, then there is virtually a 100% certainty (in my opinion) that this is going to damage the marriage and the relationship with the spouse (as well as the relationship with God.) There is no such thing as a healthy desire for regular and recreational porn viewing (regardless of whether the performers are being harmed in some way).

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby thisbejoe7 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:12 am

I'm an IT guy, I'm well aware of the distribution, type and methods by which people access porn and what is available in the industry. Given that knowledge, I can tell you that the vast majority of delivery mechanisms for even the type of porn you mention will and DOES have advertisements, and as such, the vast majority of porn will still benefit someone in the porn industry financially. Yes, there are some limited ways in which one can obtain porn online with no money and no ads, but it is not as well known and more complicated - thus ruling out a majority status for those delivery methods. No need to try and invalidate my point here.

Take for example someone in my position as an IT engineer, who is responsible for ant-spam systems and internet abuse monitoring. I don't disagree, in fact - that is my view as well. It was not my intention to setup a dichotomy whereby only two choices were available - either its okay or only wrong if someone is harmed. Why ask rhetorical questions if you simply wanted to make a point?

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby PS56 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:18 am

Joe, it sounds like I said something that aggravated you. That was not my intention and I apologize. I was just trying to have a conversation. I guess sometimes the way I type things gets misunderstood. Anyway, I'll let it go at that and depart.

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby thisbejoe7 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:15 pm

I'm the one who should apologize, I didn't intend to come across as aggravated. It has been a frustrating day and I think that just came through with the way I worded my reply. Thanks for your humility and sensitivity. :D

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Re: Porn w/o lust?

Postby PS56 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:07 pm

We're cool, bro....... :D


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