Porn and Refusal

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
User avatar
bigloop
Hammock
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:57 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): February 20th, 1993
Gender: Male

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby bigloop » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:39 pm

Find that one thing for yourself, that makes it absolutely, unequivocally unacceptable. When you have found that, you are well on your way to healing yourself, and only then, do you have any chance of truly helping your wife heal.


Profoundly true statement. I've lived at least part of it.

AkMike
King bed
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:35 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): June 16th, 1984
Gender: Male

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby AkMike » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:14 am

doug-h wrote:I guess what I am trying to share, is that it doesn't matter what your reason for turning to porn is, or why you return to it. It's a red herring


With all due respect, I strongly disagree that sexual refusal, especially those who have suffered from it for years or decades, is a red herring, when it comes as a precursor to porn use.

I understand where you're coming from, believe me, and I do agree that a person's sin is the result of his choice to do so. But Scripture repeatedly tells us that others can be complicit in that sin by paving the way to temptation. No man marries to have less sex for the rest of his life. One of his main reasons to marry is that he wants easy access to passionate sex with the woman he's pledged his life to. When that's denied, routinely, without justification or concern for his feelings and his right to sex as a married man, that strikes deeper than any pain he experiences in the world outside his home. The Bible says that he has been defrauded, robbed of that which is his by God's decree.

Some men, probably many more than will confess, turn to porn because of sexual refusal. Doesn't it make sense that this could easily be the reason for his porn use, coming from a Christian man who's been married for decades, literally half or more of his life, has been faithful to not even look at another woman, has turned away from propositions for an affair, and seeks God daily? Everyone has a limit in his own strength as to what he/she can endure on a personal level. If that were not so, then the one totally committed to Christ would never fall.

That, of course, is no excuse for entering into what is always sin (porn use). But the refusal/porn correlation is there for many, many Christian men.

For me, personally, I can't think of any deeper pain for a married man that to know that his wife rejects the expression of his manhood and desire for intimacy with her. Again, not meaning to be offensive, but this reason for a man turning to porn is anything but a red herring. It is real, boots on the ground pain that drives a man who's been faithful to his wife for decades to finally succumb to viewing the sex others are enjoying and that is his by right of marriage, but which he is being routinely, and casually denied.

Again, no disrespect intended. But the recipient of routine, years-long sexual refusal can begin to act like a battered spouse--feeling beaten, hopeless, depressed, unloved. Some, by the grace of God, overcome temptation and struggle on. Others, sadly, break, and seek a temporary solace outside marriage.

Sad but true.

doug-h
Fell out of ...
Posts: 1337
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:11 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): November 20th, 1982
Gender: Male

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby doug-h » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:01 am

AkMike,

Please understand that I am not trying to minimize the pain felt by the refused. That is not the case at all.
I believe that in some cases, recognizing why we might do some thing is beneficial in our attempt to correct ourselves, and in some cases it only makes the battle that much harder.

If the root cause is something in ourselves, or in our own control, then I can see how it might help to address it. On the other hand, if the major source of temptation comes from something external, then i really don't see how focusing attention to it will help you in your own struggles.

Past porn use is only one of a number of personal battles I am fighting. I constantly fight lust, which is a lot sneakier. I know that to view porn, I have to actively search it out(admittedly, you don't have to work hard to find it), and take some action to enable myself to see it. It is relatively easy for me to replace that action with another, positive action, so my porn use has come to a halt. On the other hand, when something pops up unexpectedly on TV, or a temptation walks by on the street, Well, often I lose the battle before I even begin to fight, and have to back up, regroup, and refocus my mind on my wife, and ask forgiveness from the lord for my weakness.

Anger issues are another matter altogether. I have tried to recognize the source of my all to present anger, and the source escapes me. There are things in my early childhood that I could use to explain it, but I can't make a direct connection myself. Either way, those things are outside of my control, and focusing on them only detracts from my own battle with anger. I choose to address my own behavior, and try to grant grace and forgiveness, so that I may receive it. I don't always succeed, but I'm better thru Gods own grace. I was on track to be an angry, bitter old man, and now I find that I am happier than I have ever been.

I guess that what I am saying, is to fight the battles that are yours to win, and try to forgive, rather than focus on where you have been wronged. We have all been wronged, and we have all done wrong. Focusing on where you have been wronged, is certainly a red herring, if your goal is to not do wrong. I can see no good in it, and I know it would only weaken my own resolve to walk in Christ's footsteps.

User avatar
bigloop
Hammock
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:57 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): February 20th, 1993
Gender: Male

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby bigloop » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:03 am

There are two main subsets of porn addicts. Those that found it early in adolescence and those that go to it later for a myriad of reasons. They have some things in common, they have some unique issues as well. Refusal of sex in marriage can certainly drive one to look for satisfaction in other areas. Some guys start buying and fixing up old cars in the garage, others buy new clubs and hit the links. Some buy the lie of pornography. It can fuel temptation for external satisfaction. Porn use often seems innocuous to many - after all, it's not really physical adultery, so it is "safe", right? Ahh but that's where it gets you. It's the poison that tastes like honey.

I can tell you from my personal experience that casting blame in any direction other than on yourself only prolongs the problem and repairs nothing. Porn is truly an insidious, cancerous sin. It gets so wrapped up and intertwined in one's soul and mind that you cannot remove it in any one, single way. It takes a multi-faceted attack. Could it be your wife's "fault" that she refuses sex with you? Is it something she is in need of addressing? Certainly. But it is your fault and your fault alone if you choose to soothe that pain with porn. Just as she chooses her actions of refusal, you choose your actions of pornography. Both sins, both need addressing, but for different reasons and in different ways. The only path to freedom from porn starts with, goes along and ends with personal responsibility for your own actions and no one else's. Period.

It strangely resembles what many refused spouses hope their refusing mate would understand, realize and take responsibility for. Think about it....

User avatar
A Loving Wife
Twin size
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:49 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): May 26th, 1990
Gender: Female

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby A Loving Wife » Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:06 pm

I'm new here..... interesting subject.

My husband and I have been married going on 26 years. Before marriage, I discussed the issue of pornography with my hubby.... mostly because he rented a playboy video and left me crying in the backyard while he watched it. I was ready to leave him then. We were not married, it was the day we picked out our engagement rings.... so I was doubly hurt and angry about. He promised me no more porn.

On our honeymoon, we went diving on a boat..... he starred at a big breasted woman in her bathing suit the whole time. We had been having sex nightly. I was hurt and we fought. He never understood how hurt I was. He kept saying I was insecure and all men were dogs and looking at other women was normal. From that day forward.... if he looked at women... he hid it.

He has tried to put up calendars of women in the garage and I refused him sex until he took it down. Same with wiglets on the computer showing girls in bathing suits. A big fight and down would come the wiglet.

Because of that hurt, my thinking became..... if my small breasts don't satisfy you then all touching them stopped. Same thing happened with me touching him.....I quit touching him and I quit letting him see me naked. I felt he preferred other women to me then all I was.... was a masturbating machine. A hole. I never refused sex but earlier in our marriage... we had agreed to having sex every Saturday.... every Saturday we had sex.... no touching breast, no seeing me naked ever.... and I wasn't into it. I felt very unhappy.... unloved.... ugly....and old. I'm 59 years old now and in the last few years, I have not sexually attracted to my husband at all and was actually disgusted with his pot belly but I did care for him.

He would give me the silent treatment for months when he got extremely angry at something.... once, for 9 months. No sex at all.... He wouldn't even kiss me during his silent treatments. Of course this knocked my self esteem down.... my isolation.... I was ready to leave him.

Anyways..... this past September.....I walked in on him looking at girls on his tablet. A radio station that allows women to post sexy pictures of themselves....some completely topless, a new girl everyday. I had never caught him actually looking at women like this..... actively looking. Needless to say....I got mad and it being a Saturday sex night.... really hurt.

For weeks this ate at me, him looking at other women.... I even slept on top the covers in our bed. I couldn't stand to be near him. I completely see it as cheating. I planned my escape.... I told some of my friends. I thought he was addicted to porn. I'm a Christian....my hubby is an atheist. I decided to go to my pastor.... he listened.... he prayed for us. He gave me the phone number of one of his friends who was married to a porn addicted. After talking to her... we figured out my husband wasn't addicted to porn.... he would just look at girls.... pretty much the babe of the day photos, I think my husband doesn't believe he looks at porn because the girls usually have panties and bras on.

On October 30th, 2015...I cornered my hubby for a talk. I asked him if he loved me.... He wasn't sure, I wasn't sure I loved him either. I told him we could separate....He asked if that meant he could date other women..... really????? Ouch. I explained how much his looking at porn hurt. My husband told me he didn't look at porn, like hard core or videos. I explained his looking at women and just the thought of him wanting to look at other women hurt. If he is letting other women rev his engine, as he put it, why does he need me.

We decided to work on our marriage. He told me he hadn't gone back to the website since being caught, which was 6 weeks prior and promised me he wouldn't actively go looking at women but wouldn't avert his eyes from the nude calendars the guys have hung up at work. I agreed. That was a Friday night and by Sunday morning....he still hadn't even kissed me. After church, the thought popped in my head to give him surprise sex Sunday night after his shower. Needless to say....he was surprised. That night, the Lord wiped my heart clean of resentment, of bitterness, of jealousy, and filled me with love for him.

All that week..... I lavished love on him.... emailed him a sexy picture of me. Let him see me naked.... let him feel my breast..... we stopped being mad at each other, we quit snapping at each other... we started doing things for each other. We were like bunnies.... every stolen moment was about sex. We both agreed we were acting like teenagers. He kept saying it was like being in Disneyland. I believe my husband realized the connection between him looking at other women and my reaction to shut down. He has turned the channel when naked girls in movies come on.

About a month into this change, I googled how to put the spark back into your marriage and date night ideas and I came across blogs about gate keeping and sex starved husbands etc.

In all honesty....I do believe my husband looking at porn/women did cause my gate keeping. I didn't know there was a gate keeping thing. I believe we did the every Saturday night so I couldn't refuse him and we had a set night for sex but it's been so long ago that I can't remember the reason.

Now that we have sex a lot more nights than Saturday....He is so much happier. And he told me he doesn't even look at the calendars at work anymore after I told him I trust him now. I'm working on keeping our marriage strong and to keep me focused on him with God's help.

GOD is so good. I'm so thankful for God's grace. I pray for my husband's salvation. If I had left...he'd have no one in his life to show him God's grace, for hope....for salvation.
Living and loving by the grace of God.....

firefly
King bed
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: AL

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby firefly » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:38 am

I must say, I am surprised, elated and convicted after reading your post. So many applications to how a wife and husband should honor and cherish and communicate with one another. And most of all, how Salvation by the Grace of God is the hope. I cannot commend you enough for staying by your husband, working on your marriage, trudging through the hardness of a battered relationship. God's grace is sufficient, you have me in tears. Keep doing the right thing as a wife, I am praying your husband will get saved.
36 years of life with the one I love and cherish. Growing in grace, and loving our children.

User avatar
Hiswifeagain
Under the stars
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:57 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): June 30th, 1984
Gender: Female
Location: The land of 10,000 lakes and road construction projects

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby Hiswifeagain » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:26 pm

That's a fantastic testimony loving wife. Thanks for sharing it with us.
You will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast, because they trust in you. Isaiah 26:3

User avatar
FoxluvsBunny
King bed
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:36 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): May 23rd, 2015
Gender: Female
Location: Northeast USA

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:53 am

Just wow a loving wife!!!What a beautiful testimony. :D

Question- if porn use can be related to refusal, then does that mean porn is the responsibility of both the refusing spouse and the user? Is it a sin on both parts? I would not say i'm a "refuser" i love sex. Some days i am not in the mood and am not giving (am i a refuser? maybe to some degree...)... i know my husband's porn use started with roots way before we ever met, but he has said that feeling isolated from me and not having enough sexy time is a trigger. Does that mean if i am not giving enough and he slips, it's my sin as well as his?
<3, Bunny
Just a Bunny learning everyday what it means to Love and Live Harmoniously with a Fox

But if you tame me then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world.~TLP

User avatar
seeking perspective
Under the stars
Posts: 5566
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:01 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): April 27th, 1991
Gender: Female
Location: between the Northwoods and the Great Plains and the Great Lakes
Contact:

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby seeking perspective » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:24 am

In my opinion, my sin of refusal made it harder for my husband to fight the temptation--but when he succumbed, the sin was on him, not on me. We are each responsible for our own sin, and as soon as we look at a spouse's sin as the cause of our own, we sin again. (Adam tried doing this in Genesis 3, and it didn't go over so well.)

That said, if your husband is expressing feelings of isolation and insufficient sexual connection with you, this is something you can and should work on because it is part of loving your husband.

You are not responsible for his sin, but your actions can make a difference in his ability to fight the temptation to sin.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
~Psalm 30:11
The Forgiven Wife
and Sex Chat for Christian Wives

User avatar
SeekingChange
Under the stars
Posts: 5251
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:41 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): August 17th, 1994
Gender: Female

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby SeekingChange » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:32 am

Remember, you are not his Savior. Yes, the right attitude and actions can help with temptation, but the truth is, there are wives out there who have been very generous all around, and the husband still struggles and falls. The sin in them comes out, and only Christ.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

My Story

User avatar
Leah
Under the stars
Posts: 16013
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:42 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): November 3rd, 1979
Gender: Female
Location: The Volunteer State

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby Leah » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:42 am

The Bible says we can understand why a starving man steals bread. Doesn't make it right. Don't we all have an easier time when we are surrounded by support?

At the same time there is a discipline to recovery. It takes discipline to grieve the losses of life. It takes discipline not to obsess over the sin of another. It takes discipline to refocus my mind and attention inward to hear from the Holy Spirit.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


TMB Copyright and Fair Use

User avatar
Learning1
Hammock
Posts: 1060
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:06 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): February 15th, 2014
Gender: Female

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby Learning1 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:54 am

DH and I agree with you SP.

Your husband owns his own sin. Similar to other sins, we can help others out of their sin or make it more difficult, but ultimately we are each responsible for our own junk. It is better to focus on our own junk first than try to correct everyone else's junk.

When my DH used TV porn, he was widowed and he said part of his mind was justifying it by blaming God for allowing his first wife to die and he was blaming God for the cause of his loneliness and suffering. At the different points when he used the porn, he said he felt to call his Pastor friend for support, but he chose not to.

At that point in time in his life he believed he was justified in his blaming of God for his porn use & anger.
“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.” C.S. Lewis

User avatar
Nvr2Late
On the floor
Posts: 1503
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:23 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): February 9th, 2013
Gender: Female
Location: Midwest

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby Nvr2Late » Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:05 pm

A Loving Wife, that is a wonderful testimony. I'll agree in prayer with you for your husband's salvation. And add that a well-loved and contented man might be just a bit more open to understanding and receiving God's grace through the gospel than an angry and sexually frustrated one. I think God is showing you how to overcome!

I also agree with those who recognize that refusal and gate-keeping on part of the wife can, in some measure, lead to the husband weakening against temptation in some cases. It seems to me it mostly comes down to the man himself and his relationship with God and his own levels of maturity and self discipline. Some touch the fire, get burnt, and stay away. Some can't seem to stop coming to the flame.

One thing they teach in sexual co-dependency treatment is "you didn't break him; and you can't fix him. You can only take care of your own responsibility in the relationship." This might sound like I'm contradicting my statement above, but think about it. I am the one God has ordained to be my husband's sole sexual outlet for life and I refuse to provide him that outlet, while the internet beckons constantly with it's siren song and "privacy"....let's just say I am probably greasing the skids for him to fail. Still, it's 100% on him if he does - because not all men do. I think many men turn to porn as a way of getting even, whether or not they will admit it. Revenge, anger, whatever...it's a powerful motivator to start. And then satan sinks the hook.
___________________________________________________________________________
How we handle our spouse's shortcomings reveals more about our own character than theirs. * I’ve already told you more than I know.

User avatar
FoxluvsBunny
King bed
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:36 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): May 23rd, 2015
Gender: Female
Location: Northeast USA

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:41 pm

Some good wisdom here... thank you. If there was a like button (mods... you should get one for TMB- for those times you are encouraged but don't have much else to say in response! :D ) i would hit it!
<3, Bunny
Just a Bunny learning everyday what it means to Love and Live Harmoniously with a Fox

But if you tame me then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world.~TLP

User avatar
bigloop
Hammock
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2014 7:57 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): February 20th, 1993
Gender: Male

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby bigloop » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:25 am

What it comes down to for the addict - any addict of anything - is how one chooses to deal with triggering emotions. Those can be anger, anxiety, fear, rejection, loneliness, depression - even happiness.
In the case of this post's question - refusal and porn - all a spouse can do if they choose to be proactive is to: 1. Help the user to recognize triggers, 2. Help them find new ways to cope with those, 3. When possible reduce certain triggers. It is #3 that this post speaks to. Refusal/GK can certainly be triggers, but how a user/addict reacts to those is totally up to them. The refuser/GK has no control of how the using spouse reacts. But the spouse can control themselves and the triggers they may be initiating.
Is that something a spouse should want to do for a struggling user who is doing their part to recover? I would hope so. But it is often required for the offended spouse to work through their own emotional turmoil and pain first - as has been illustrated in this thread. The difficult part is that both of these need to be taking place at the same time and the couple must be careful lest their own efforts drive them away from their spouse instead of toward them. Thats why open communication is so important because often for the offended spouse the first few steps do take them away for a little while. I agree with all the "work on yourself" suggestions, just be careful those efforts don't alienate your spouse.

doug-h
Fell out of ...
Posts: 1337
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:11 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): November 20th, 1982
Gender: Male

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby doug-h » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:06 am

Another thing to keep in mind, is that you are literally talking about two broken people, and the most basic human nature, is to heap your own pain on the person who you think brought you down. It works both ways.

I know first hand how that feeling of lonliness and desolation can allow you to justify things in your own mind, and blame the other for your weakness.

On the other hand, you have to be absolutely blind to believe that using porn is not going to make it that much more difficult(impossible for some) for someone to wish to be intimate with you, so the cycle becomes self energized. It takes someone with a truly forgiving spirit to reach out like that, in any case, but to do so in the face of continued use shows true grace.



I would not have broken out of that cycle, if the Lord hadn't intervened, and truly changed my heart. It would have been easy for me to keep my place in that cycle, had he not made it clear to me, in the voices I heard here, that I was literally hurting my wife. That was the one thing that was truly impossible to ignore for me, and I haven't looked back. Doesn't mean that I don't face other struggles, and I would be foolish to believe that I don't have to be diligent and deliberate in this one.

The fact remains that we are responsible for our own sins, and we will be held accountable for our own sins. By the same token, we are not the judge, and are called to forgive those who sin against us.

User avatar
FoxluvsBunny
King bed
Posts: 566
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:36 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): May 23rd, 2015
Gender: Female
Location: Northeast USA

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:42 am

^^ great post Doug!!! :)

It is a vicious cycle! If my husband is in the porn, i feel like i don't want to be intimate (the enemy tells me this lie) and also at the same time, that i'm undesirable, and deserve for him to do this. Then it feeds his cycle of hunger, feeling desolate, bad about himself, he uses. Communication and prayer can break this cycle. We are working on this.
<3, Bunny
Just a Bunny learning everyday what it means to Love and Live Harmoniously with a Fox

But if you tame me then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world.~TLP

User avatar
zelfyr
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:40 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): February 14th, 2015
Gender: Male

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby zelfyr » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:54 pm

Pretty interesting.

My wife suffers from past abuse and for one year now, we didn't have much sex and when we try we can't go far due to PTSD. Before we get married I masturbated twice a month but never looked at porn until last week. It wasn't what i'll call "heavy porn", just a girl touching her genitals, but I felt it was wrong so I took time to confess what I've done to my lovely and comprehensive wife.

The fact is that exploring and touching your partner's genitals is the first thing most couple do during honeymoon and we can't, I can't, and it's becoming quiet an obsession for me. I was single before but didn't looked at porn, it wasn't a need nor an expectation to see and touch a partner, but now that I'm married I need it to stay attracted by her.
I'm really scary of becoming an addict to porn. :|

Perhaps I could explain my feelings with a story :

-Before you got married, you eat pastas alone in your kitchen when you are hungry and it seems quiet normal. :?
-Then, you got married, and someone explains you that pastas are over and you can go to restaurant with your beloved whenever one of you is hungry, you're just the happiest guy in the World ! =]
-Eventually, whenever you invite your spouse to restaurant she says no or (in my specific case) eat a little, states that she can not eat anymore because her tooth hurt and leaves you alone at the restaurant (really frustrating but she is enduring pain so you have to be comprehensive) u_u
-After a while you are upset (which is understandable), you don't want pastas anymore (especially when you know that you could go to restaurant with the one you love instead) and you eat junk food (although it is the worst food ever) because you are desperately hungry and upset. ::xx

It's the way it works, so, what do I have to do ? I can't force my wife to go to restaurant with me, nor eat junk food, nor go to restaurant with someone else, nor starve to death (I know that some guys out there are already dead :roll: and their marriage too, no love anymore ::bh ) and I don't want to eat pastas anymore.

Happily my wife and I can spend time together at cinema :roll:


PS : English being not my native language, please, excuse me for spelling mistakes. :newbie


Return to “Pornography”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users