Porn and Refusal

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
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Leah
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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby Leah » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:45 pm

txtwindad wrote:I thought the OP was about whether or not refusing contributes to the refused spouse turning to porn. What does this discussion about practice have to do with that? Perhaps, I am missing something, but it seems we've run off down the bunny trail.


This is correct. Can we please return to the original discussion?
Leah

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby AkMike » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:55 am

I know I'm back way late, but my computer crashed. Back online now. Just wanted to let everyone know I didn't ignore the comments or whatever...

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby thatguyoverthere » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:56 am

I have read the OP and the discussion on the first few pages.

Very interesting and enlightening, although one must be very clear that it is in no way an excuse, just as the sin of dressing provocatively is no excuse to the sin of staring and linger.

As a long term porn addict of 15 years (18 days clean today) I also want to point out that the opposite can be true.
I have never needed to endure refusal for any long periods of time. My addiction started long before I even met her and has nothing with her to do. She loves sex and we have always had great intimacy, even during my addiction. Somehow I never had problems with imagery either, I was always just with her.

However, I did notice that I fell into porn much easier the day after or shortly after having had sex with her. It's like the sex triggered the "lust addiction" parts of my brain. Of course, I would also fall occasionally a few times a week regardless, but I noted that it was often a lot stronger shortly after having had sex with her.

Right now, I am going through a "dry spell" where she reports "zero interest, dont know why", and I dont want her to do it as a favor to me. At the same time Im 18 days clean. My thoughts are - would it be harder to stay sober if we did have sex? Has God sent her this temporary refusal in order to help me get sober?
He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls. /Proverbs 25:28

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby SeekingChange » Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:50 am

thatguyoverthere wrote:Right now, I am going through a "dry spell" where she reports "zero interest, dont know why", and I dont want her to do it as a favor to me. At the same time Im 18 days clean. My thoughts are - would it be harder to stay sober if we did have sex? Has God sent her this temporary refusal in order to help me get sober?

I don't know if I would say "God sent" this, but He definitely is allowing it. My husband has said, that even though the refusal was hard, he can look back and see that he learned self-control during that time. Self-control is a fruit of the Spirit, and so in that time He was being transformed to be more like Christ, and you will too as a child of God.

As to your wife, my guess is she is hurt, feeling betrayed, it would help if she could find someone or something to help her work through this hurt. If she doesn't, she'll start building her marriage on these hurts and negative feelings rather then on forgiveness and learning to trust again.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Porn and refusal

Postby olafthewise » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:41 pm

Best way to avoid temptation (porn) is for your wife to please you sexually and also for you to take the time to please her sexually.
Now, assuming this is not happening (sex with wife), wives take advantage of us good Christian men by sex starving us knowing we cannot righteously divorce for sexual reasons without looking like a jerk in the church. We need to step up and demand our respect!
I say no. I am taking steps in my own marriage. She needs to be available and I do too. (first step), anyway;

My friend, go to secular site, "your brain on porn." As usual, Christian pastors are not stepping up and condemning wives for the sexual starvation they cause. Nor are they realistic about methods to reduce or eliminate porn use other than shaming us. This is a real problem and we as men need to strive to not dishonor our savior and look for practical righteous ways to be sexually satisfied. Thus a web site that is secular.
I recommend you go to that site, "your brain on porn." the web page can help you to realistically abstain from porn and develop a real way to get away from porn.
Its a good pay-back (yeah, real loving, I know) and that pay-back is golf or gym or hunting or model airplanes or, (heh, heh), antique cars! These things are not a substitute for sex, but will keep you busy. Idleness is a big cause of porn addiction.
Wife will either ask for justification for your extravagant spending, (in which you answer that she never gives you opportunity to give her orgasm.) or she will fight you over the money and you can give same answer.

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Re: Porn and refusal

Postby txtwindad » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:00 pm

olafthewise wrote:Best way to avoid temptation (porn) is for your wife to please you sexually and also for you to take the time to please her sexually.


There are plenty of generous sex positive wives with men that still turn to porn. You cannot blame sin on another person. Sure it's harder when your partner is starving you, but a man's got to own his own sin. Repentance is not possible until you drop the excuses and blame.
 "Baby, Baby go and fetch some water,
Pour it on me so's I don't melt.
Can't you see you've got me burnin' hotter
Than a black vinyl car seat in ..." Two Tons of Steel

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Re: Porn and refusal

Postby mamame » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:22 pm

For the second time in like 5 minutes.... What TTD said!

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Re: Porn and refusal

Postby landschooner » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:26 pm

....and yet the Apostle Paul recommends married sex to help fight sexual temptation.

LS


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Re: Porn and refusal

Postby sd595 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:33 pm

txtwindad wrote:
olafthewise wrote:Best way to avoid temptation (porn) is for your wife to please you sexually and also for you to take the time to please her sexually.

There are plenty of generous sex positive wives with men that still turn to porn. You cannot blame sin on another person. Sure it's harder when your partner is starving you, but a man's got to own his own sin. Repentance is not possible until you drop the excuses and blame.


You are right txt that people need to own their own sin, and you are also right that some people turn to porn even when they may have a generous spouse.

With that said, I still completely agree with olafthewise's statement. For every person who turns to porn with a generous spouse, how many more turn to porn for a release because their spouse is not generous and/or starving them. What do you think is the ratio of this? 10:1? 50:1?

I think a spouse who is refusing to meet their spouse's needs is responsible for putting their spouse in temptation's way. Not responsible for their spouse's sin, but responsible for putting them in temptation to it. That is their part to own.
Get out your bible and see what He says. Pray to Him right now and ask Him for His wisdom in the matter. He will not fail you if you put your faith and trust in Him.

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Re: Porn and refusal

Postby Leah » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:36 pm

landschooner wrote:....and yet the Apostle Paul recommends married sex to help fight sexual temptation.


Some people are selfish to begin with, and it's easier to self gratify than to have an actual relationship that requires giving to another. Refused wives have temptation, too.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: Porn and refusal

Postby bigloop » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:53 pm

Nailed it LS!
Let us endeavor to not put a stumbling block in our brother's (spouses) way.

Porn is its own thing. I agree with both factions here because both are correct. Lust is the sin and it can be present with or without sex in the marriage. But it is less prevalent with it, at least in Christian marriages. In non-christian marriages, non-religious marriages in general, I don't know if you could say the same thing. There are a lot of people in their twenties/thirties that were "raised" in a new pornified world that do not consider it aberrant at all.
Most Christian men I know, including myself, were exposed and had the porn habit before they had wives. Most long before as adolescents. There is no way I could blame any issue I had with it on her. I could try to justify it because of what I perceived, but it was ultimately up to me to handle the sin. Once that was done, (and it takes a never-ending effort), then I could see more clearly and could start to appreciate much more. It takes some time for the brain to clear up and re-wire. But that is for a old user. If a new husband turns to porn to gain relief/release and never used before, then one might say that his refusing wife made the choice more palatable, but it was still his choice as it was her choice to refuse. Both are wrong.
Txtwindad is absolutely correct though when saying that as long as you try to justify it by your wife's actions, you will never be able to quit it.

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Re: Porn and refusal

Postby IM_a_Farmwife » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:40 pm

olafthewise wrote:Its a good pay-back (yeah, real loving, I know) and that pay-back is golf or gym or hunting or model airplanes or, (heh, heh), antique cars! These things are not a substitute for sex, but will keep you busy. Idleness is a big cause of porn addiction.
Wife will either ask for justification for your extravagant spending, (in which you answer that she never gives you opportunity to give her orgasm.) or she will fight you over the money and you can give same answer.


^^^^This made me laugh out loud. We belong to several car clubs. I could share stories about the wives and the cars that replaced them, but I won't. Just know that, many times, the cars win. The garages are bigger than the house in some instances. The garages have in-floor heat and better furniture. The cars sometimes adorn more accessories than the wives. Yeah, it's a great hobby. I share the enjoyment of restorations with DH. I do the bodywork and DH does the mechanical stuff. I actually got DH into the old car hobby. I came with my own buffer. Ha!

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby Leah » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:05 pm

People who are in marriages where sexual refusal is the norm should do something about it. It has been a long time since I talked about this. I am married to a man who was a hard core refuser and addicted to porn. One day I came home from work and found the evidence, yet again, and after all the studies, groups, reading, talking, begging, crying, and counseling, I threw the mother of old-fashioned hissy fits. "I have been a loving a faithful wife to you for almost thirty years. We have not had sex in almost three years. You have thirty days to talk to a counselor, or you will talk to an attorney. Your call."

Are you married to a refusing spouse? Do something about it. Get a counselor. Talk to your pastor. Move the spouse out of the master bedroom. Whatever you do, stop acting like it's okay, because it isn't. Failure to address sin in a relationship is a failure to walk in the light. Stop blaming the spouse. Withdrawing to porn, an affair, eating, drinking, work, or hobbies is not how grownups resolve problems.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby MotoX » Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:29 pm

I have to say, I have been struggling with a porn addiction for awhile now. For me it started out because I had an odd attraction that developed into a fetish in high school. Because it seemed so weird to me, after I graduated, I started researching it and found I wasn't alone. The problem was, the places that supported that particular fetish had porn. Because I felt so alone with my odd feelings, I found those sites with that particular porn became very "attractive" to me. I was soon hooked and even after being married and having moved on from that particular fetish, the addiction to look at porn remained. I have been struggling and I will be clean for a few weeks then break down and soon be hooked again. I am really trying to not fall back into the trap again and have been clean for about a week, mostly thanks to this website for giving me a place to discuss my sexual issues. When my DW and I have sex, I find my addiction sustained, without the need to look at porn. The problem is, having sex once a week isn't enough to satisfy my high sex drive and about 3 days after, I find myself browsing again. I'm trying to get better but for me, I do find that when I go without sex, I struggle with my addiction more.

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby bigloop » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:01 pm

MotoX - do you want to quit using porn?

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby MotoX » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:46 pm

bigloop wrote:MotoX - do you want to quit using porn?
yeah I do. I feel horribly guilty when I do.

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby bigloop » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:04 am

spent many years in that pit with that beast. There is hope, Can I ask -what are you doing to accomplish that goal then? I

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby MotoX » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:36 pm

bigloop wrote:spent many years in that pit with that beast. There is hope, Can I ask -what are you doing to accomplish that goal then? I


To be honest, I'm praying about it and just avoiding it as best as I can.

I've thought about putting parental locks on my phone, tablet, and laptop so I would have to type in a password to look at anything like that and making the password something like "IlovemyWIFE" or something that would guilt me into not typing it in but I have yet to actually do that.
Last edited by MotoX on Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby Skeeter » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:18 pm

landschooner wrote:....and yet the Apostle Paul recommends married sex to help fight sexual temptation.

Yup. There is no refusal in porn. No hurt from spurned advances and hateful comments. No prohibitions on certain activities or positions or words that were deemed unacceptable by one party after the wedding.

We can run in circles all day with this issue but we as a church/society won't get anywhere until we address the Why.

cautiouslycurious

Re: Porn and Refusal

Postby cautiouslycurious » Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:33 pm

I'm wondering if refused spouses feel more 'justified' in the sin of porn engagement, in the same way that refusing spouses can feel 'justified' in their refusal, because of the porn use. So rather than 'x' causing 'y' it's more that the gravity of the sin 'feels' (not is) lessened because of 'x' or 'y' (porn or refusal).

Not sure if that even made any sense, I was never any good at math! :lol:


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