Help

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:04 am

For those that have been in professional treatment for porn addiction, what did your treatment comsist of? Was it simply to stop watching porn or to also know and work on the impact the addiction caused on the lives of others and relationships? I can't imagine treatmwnt simply being "stop using porn" and we are done with treatment.

doug-h
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Re: Help

Postby doug-h » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:10 am

I am not in professional treatment, but I will say that my efforts are very personal, and do not involve my wife in any fashion. That does not mean that I don't consider those things, and wherever I could support her I would, but no, her healing is her own responsibility. I don't mean that in a calous way, just that I recognize that it is not my place. It is Gods. If she requested something of me, I would do it for her, but I don't know what it might be. I can't undo it.

hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:09 pm

Thanks Doug for the reply. I am meeting with a new therapist this afternoon. I decided it was best to have someone other than the one treating my husband. I actually made an appointment with a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist) because at this point she may be my last hope and obviously they have special training in this area. They are expensive but unfortunately that is the price my husband has to pay.


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Cayenne
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Re: Help

Postby Cayenne » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:04 pm

I saw this article and thought it might relate to your question in some way.

6 Ways My Husband Helped Me Heal From Betrayal
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

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SeekingChange
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Re: Help

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:10 pm

That was an excellent link. I realized my husband practiced much of that, on his own.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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bigloop
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Re: Help

Postby bigloop » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:25 am

A friend of mine recently posted this to a site dedicated to pornography recovery. When I read it, I thought it needed to be shared here, possibly even directly to this thread, maybe others. He's been free from addiction for seven years now. Their marriage has recovered. It took a while. The final paragraph is very important. It is his story, so I'll let him tell it:

I was a SA (sex addict) from the time I was 10 or 12, and a PA (porn addict) from 13 or 14 thru my early 50s. My wife and I were married for almost 30 years before I got sober, and I told her about my struggles about a month after being sober. It was devastating to her. We agreed that we'd be celibate for an indefinite time, with me not even bringing it up for 6 months. At that point she still felt the same way, so we put it on hold for another 6 months. During that time we had a lot of talks and she went thru many stages of coping, some of them many times:

Anger: she rightly felt that I had betrayed her, that I had lied to her and manipulated her. She was very angry a lot-either yelling or silent. There's nothing the RA (recovering addict) can do at this stage, just listen. Making excuses, giving apologies, asking why she just can't "get over it" are guaranteed to make it worse. We've hurt them, surely we can stand to hurt a bit for them?

Sadness: this is harder for both of us, I think. She'd cry, or just poured out her heart about how this was not what she'd imagined our life would be like. Again, there's nothing I could say or do that would fix it, just be there and be supportive, and listen.

Suspicion: This takes a MUCH longer time to fade than anger or sadness. Think about it, I lied to her and manipulated her so she wouldn't catch on to how much I was lying for almost 30 years. Suddenly she's going to believe I've changed? I was able to make some accommodations for this: never use my computer where she can't see the screen, give her access to my NPSupport account, give her access to my men's support group, leave my wallet and keys behind when I went for a walk. But, of course, there's no way for me to prove to her that I'm not lying. This still comes up once in a while and I still have to bow my head and acknowledge that I can't prove I'm living like I say I am. The only thing I have to offer is that I've changed from the self-absorbed, rather cruel person I was at times, and if I were to go back to porn/MB I'm pretty sure that guy would come back.

Self-doubt: I guess I could self-justify to meet any of the above feelings, but there's nothing that breaks my heart more than my wife's feelings of inadequacy. How she failed me in some way or another, how this could be her fault. You addicts know that this is all on us, but our partner's can't understand why they don't have the power to help us. It's worth spending a lot of time trying to reinforce your partner's self image, because it's been torn down to the ground. And this can take a LONG time to get better.

PTSD: by definition this is reacting in non-helpful ways to our environment as a result of trauma we've suffered. Being lied to, cheated on, and especially if our partner's see some of the stuff we've been looking at can leave lasting scars. This can result in poor sleep, free floating anxiety, headaches, depression, lack of motivation and so on. This, more than any of the other problems may benefit from some counseling or even medication. If your partner is suffering, please try and get them some help.

I'm sure there are things that I'm missing. And I'm sure that the partner's have way more insight into this. For the SA, I've just gotta say: be patient and kind, this is a long term process. And for the partner's: be gentle with yourselves, get the help you need, understand that you can't rush recovery, don't be afraid to speak your truth and set boundaries that your SA has to follow.


Recovery for both sides looks different for every individual. Much like the often published "stages of grief"- not everyone will go through all 5, or 7 or 9 according to who writes about it....see the variability? And not every stage will look the same across persons. Same with recovery - from pornography or any addiction - for both sides. The consistent thing though, my friend has learned, is communication with compassion must be practiced - and it is often the unnatural thing to do. But you must be intentional about it anyway.

hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:43 am

Bigloop- Thank you so much for that. That feels like me to a t.


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hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:45 am

Cayenne- Thanks for the link. I have read that one before. Every bit helps.


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bigloop
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Re: Help

Postby bigloop » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:08 pm

hifromme67 wrote:Bigloop- Thank you so much for that. That feels like me to a t.


Maybe you could print it off and show your husband. If you PM me, I will share with you(him) the specific website - even this specific guy. He's willing to offer help to anyone.

hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:34 pm

Question for the spouses and those recovering. My husband and I have fought about this twice which leads me to believe he is not grasping treatment, bucking treatment or this has not been addressed.

He is been in treatment since February. He has stopped watching porn and our sex life is back to normal. We have had two instances where we have fought about his choice of movies on tv. The first movie was Central Intelligance. Although I didn't know if there were would be nudity or sex, I let him know I didn't want to watch because usually those raunchy movies have garbage. He said he wanted to watch because it was funny and said to fast forward parts I felt were inappropriate. I told him I did not want to be responsible for that. We watched half way and it was fine. I fell asleep and woke up when it was over. He told me it was not what I thought it would be. So as we went to sleep, I very carefully asked if they had discussed boundaries/triggers in therapy because based on him not thinking about the movie, it made me wonder. That turned into a huge fight and we didn't talk for almost a week. He feels because it isn't porn then what am I not understanding.

I felt concerned over all of this and I emailed his therapist and former therapist. I explained my concerns and told her that I was needing clarification for myself as far as keeping myself safe. I told her exactly what happened and felt he was pushing boundaries. So he went to his session and when he returned he told me we needed to talk. He was very humble and told me he understood what I meant and that he needed the therapist to explain to him. He said she told him that when it comes down to it, he is in the position he is in because of what he has done and he needs to take responsibility for it. So that was fine.

So last night I walk into room and a movie is starting. The first thing he says is before I say anything, there is "nothing" on tv. The movie was Just Friends with Chris Klein. Now it isn't porn or even sex scenes but it can be raunchy and some nudity. Once again he became mad because I felt it was porn. I know it isn't porn and I at no time said it was. I have told him before, porn addicts should not even be watching stuff that may trigger. He was mad and said obviously you don't know what I was watching because this stuff does not even arouse me. So I look up the movie on IMDB which always gives you parental section. I was in the other room so I sent it to him and told him I'm sure his therapist wouldn't think moaning and pretend masturbation was such a good idea. Of course I was being sarcastic. He just doesn't get it because it isn't porn.

I am at the end of my rope and don't know what to do. Last night when he was arguing with me and trying to justify I told him I did not need to worry about him and to do whatever he wanted to do. My problem with watching those is the obvious. Triggers and how the heck do you think that makes me feel? Are you honestly that stupid and have zero common sense? I have learned so much about him this last year that I am beginning to dislike him as a person. That says a lot for me. Sorry for the long post but just feel like I want to quit.

This is the portion from IMDB that I sent him. Tell me if a recovering addict should be watching this?

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Re: Help

Postby SeekingChange » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:51 pm

No matter how "right" you are, when one feels like they are being treated as a child and being demeaned, it overrides any "truth" you may be saying. For many, they will fight back or reject, just because of the principle of the matter. It reminds me of 1 Cor. 13....without love, it is nothing.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

My Story

hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:01 pm

So what do I do? Leave as is? What good does treatment do? That's like an alcoholic saying as long as I'm not drinking whiskey, I can get drunk on beer because it isn't whiskey. Makes no sense to me at all.

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Re: Help

Postby SeekingChange » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:05 pm

Speaking from experience, have you stepped back, trusting God with your husband, while you pray for him, including for the Holy Spirit to convict him?
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

My Story

hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:13 pm

I have stepped back alot but only out of anger and the fact that I need to worry about myself. In the end I know that what he ends up with it, whether alone, divorced, married, etc is because of his choices. I'm just really tired of everything.

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Re: Help

Postby doug-h » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:46 pm

HiFromMe,

You are right, that the content is not appropriate, and he probably should not be watching it(based on what you posted, probably nobody should be). That said, he was likely being honest about not being aroused by it. I'm not familiar with it, but it sounds like it was supposed to be a comedy. Not something I would watch, but I never have understood that sort of comedy anyways.

I get that you are upset, but do you really want to set yourself up to be his conscience? If you have a strong conviction, then state it, and why you feel that way, and then leave it be. You can influence him, but you can not change him. Mothering him is probably one of the most damaging things you can do, and while it is not sexual in nature, it is every bit as corrosive to a marriage as anything else. Please do not take this wrong, but you have enough to work on within your own heart. You are angry, and resentful, and I get it, but it is not helping you or your husband. I wish I could make you understand how damaging it is to your own heart. You have dealt with, and described the exact same things that I struggle with. The anxiety, the chest pain, and more, are things that I have dealt with off and on for years. It has interfered with all my relationships, but the person that paid the highest price for it was me.

I wish I could tell you how to just let go of it, but I'm still working on it myself. Still, I would have you experience the peace that is often denied me.

hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:22 pm

I understand what you are saying. I just feel as if things continue this way he will think everything is okay and he can get away with it. Who is to say that just because he feels other things are not porn, they are okay to watch behind my back knowing exactly how I feel? I can't live like that and don't think I should have to suck it up just like I did for the many months I have of his recovery. I have to remind myself I DID NOT do anything.

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Re: Help

Postby doug-h » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:34 pm

HiFromMe,

I am going to be very blunt here. I really hope you don't take offense, because none is intended. I am very much on your side. That said, If I do offend, I apologize, and I ask your forgiveness. I am going to take that chance, because I think what I have to say is worth some risk.

I really don't think that the shows you described are likely to be triggers for your husband, but it is obvious that they are triggers for you. I really wish you could see that. They are triggering anxiety and hurt in you, and I wish he could see that as well. Maybe if you were able to re-frame your conversations in such a manner that they are not adversarial, but seeking support in your own struggles, they might be better received.

Now, here is the blunt part. Understand that I am not blaming you, and I am in no way implying that any of this is your fault. What I am going to say, might lead you to believe otherwise, and I assure you that is not the case. Your behavior could well be a trigger for your husband. If he really believes that he has made real change, for you and your marriage, and the message he constantly receives is that it is not enough, that you are looking for fault, he may reach a point where he not only quits trying to do right, but wonders why he is bothering in the first place. It is a very small step from there to resuming old habits. I'm not saying he would be justified in those thoughts, and he certainly would not be justified in returning to porn. On the other hand, I have had to deal with that same thought process myself a few times. I had a lot of support, and was able to lay those frustrations down, but I'm not sure I could have done so without a lot of loving support. If your husband does not have that, he has a greater vulnerability than I.

I know that what gets posted here is often a vent, and not the whole story. In light of that, I am sure there is a lot of good that happens quietly that you don't post here. I hope the overwhelming message is one of encouragement, and loving support. I don't know where he is in his recovery, but I'm going to go out on a limb and assume it has been positive. If that is the case, I hope you are mindful of it.

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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:15 pm

Doug- I do understand that he may not be triggered by such "mild" things considering what he was probably watching. It is very triggering for me and makes me cringe every single time there is sex or anything suggestive on tv, when we see sexy chicks in publi, etc. I am sure you and your wife have gone through all of that. I tried to explain to him last night that it wasn't that I felt it was porn but was he thinking about my feelings? When he gets so angry and entitled, he won't listen to anything. Most of the times he is mindful of things on tv or in public so he can't say he doesn't understand where I am coming from. The therapist has told him many times. So why is it so freakin' difficult to get it through his head? I told him the other day (when we were not fighting but he had a smart [rear] attitude) "If I had done something like that I would be a little more humble and do what it took to make things right." I honestly just believe it is in his poor character and not something that will ever change. He's always make poor decisions and knew nothing of boundaries with people. I think I am just now starting to really see that and I don't like it. So that part is my fault for putting up with it for so many years.


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Re: Help

Postby doug-h » Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:05 pm

I understand,

Just keep at it. You seem to be in a much better place than when you first got here. I know you will continue to work thru things. Just don't let setbacks define either of you.

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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:04 pm

Do triggers for the partner ever end? I've been doing really good and there are days "stupid" things trigger me. Once I am triggered, it's a spiral downhill from there. Today we went to Church (husband initiated this) and there was this woman there who wasnt even attractive. The only thing I noticed from the back was her ratty, straw like bleached hair. I guess the bleached hair triggered me for whatever reason and I have felt down since then to the point of just feeling sad and wanting to cry. I want there to be a time when I am no longer controlled by my husband's past addiction. It will be a year for d-day in February so I'm assuming it is normal.


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