Help

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
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poetess
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Re: Help

Postby poetess » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:45 am

I can't speak to "triggers" and having a husband with porn issues. But I do have something to add on the subject of thoughts going down well-worn, undesirable trails, and that is to look at what Scripture says. One passage in particular comes to mind (from 1 Corinthians 10):

Bible
10 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul, who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! 2 I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. 3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.


In other words, we don't have to be prisoner to false thoughts and emotions. Your husband does not; nor do you.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

hifromme67
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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:30 pm

Thank you for the encouragement. It is much needed today, especially now. DH wanted me to come to work with him since he had to work this evening. While I love this city, it has a lot of triggers as this is where he was viewing porn. Each time we come here I am triggered. I am reminded that this is where it was happening in his work van and parking structure. Pray for me please.

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Re: Help

Postby doug-h » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:51 am

Hifromme67,

First, let me say that I read your update when you posted it. I am praying that things have let up somewhat. I was tempted to open my mouth and offer some insight, and found that I had none. I was way to busy re-lIving some of my own old hurts and disapointments, and trying to get myself clear.

A few people who suspected reached out and I know they only wanted to lift me up out of the muck I was in, and I resisted. I told everyone I was fine, and withdrew into my shell so I could suffer in private.

A few persisted, and I ended up actually sharing my heart, and so much of the burden was lifted. In just a few days, my outlook really turned around.

If you are struggling, talk to someone. Let someone lift you up. Find a group, or even one person, and talk about what you are struggling with. I know you will probably tell me that you don't have someone like that, but there is someone. That is why regular attendance at a group is so important. It does take time to build those trusting relationships where you can feel safe opening your heart. Sharing here does help, but it is nothing compared to sitting with someone.

Please take the time to look for what God has already put in place for you. I know it isn't easy. I knew what was there for me, and I still resisted, so I guess you could say that I am being a bit of a hipocryte. On th other hand, when I let someone else in, I know I was better for it.

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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:06 pm

I do have a session with my therapist on Thursday. We had a session with his almost two weeks ago and it was a disaster and I ended up walking out at the end. I felt as if I wasn't even being heard, insulted by her and felt as if she downplayed many things. I started the session wanting clarification ONLY as to what was appropriate/not appropriate stuff on tv or in general. From there dh exploded telling me I was accusing him of watching porn, that I don't know the difference between porn and tv stuff and most insulting was that I "used" to watch all these movies on tv before and it never bothered me. His therapist did not bother to intervene and explain why it didn't bother me before and why they are triggers for me now. She then told us "You guys are on completely different pages on what porn is." But do you think she bothered to stop us and ask us both our thoughts and feelings on each? No. It escalated to the point he said he was done.

Prior to this I did tell her I felt it unfair that we cannot have joint sessions. I told her she is his therapist and I get the confidentiality but it isn't fair to me at all. I brought up some stuff I had wanted to discuss (triggers and what/how will he be dealing with them to avoid slip-ups or relapses) but was shut down by her. She said we have discussed that ad nauseum. I felt insulted as a woman to be talked to that way by another woman and to be dismissed. When it was just completely out of control I left. I have been betrayed and violated by my husband and don't need it by another person.

Last night on our way home, I said "Can I ask you something?" And he said yes. I very calmly and gently asked "Did you watch porn because I wouldn't do those things?" He completely lost it and told me I can't leave things alone and I always have to bring it up. He said he is fighting his problem and I am making him think about it. I said "wait, you tell me you have no triggers then you tell me that when I talk about it it triggers you." Knowing my husband, he says whatever is convenient for him at the moment. He will say he has no triggers because he doesn't want to talk about them, but then use it as a means to not discuss anything else because he is being triggered. Does that make sense?

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Re: Help

Postby Leah » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:17 pm

A therapist is not a referee, nor is the session supposed to be about beating up your husband with guilt.

Do you think it is fair to make your husband responsible for your feelings? Isn't some of that your responsibility? Talk to your therapist about that and see if you all can't find a way to manage some of your trigger feelings.

Just my experience. Your mileage may vary.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:37 pm

I know she is not a referee but the entire session was that way and she did nothing to calm it. I am in no way beating him up with guilt. Why do I have to tip toe around him, his feelings and his addiction because it is porn? If it were alcohol or drugs it wouldn't be this way at all. I won't take responsibility for the damage he has done nor how he has made me feel. I am the one in therapy driving 1 hr away go fix the damage he has caused. I am the one reading every book possible and every online article. Is that fair to me? Did I cause this? Absolutely not. I won't tip toe around him and sweep things under the rug. That's how we dealt with things for the last 30 years....under the rug. I'm sorry he feels bad or embarrassed, but he did it to himself and to us and he has to face it as hard as it is. I will talk to her on Thursday but it's so hard when we can't have joint sessions. He won't go to mine so I'm forced to go to his. That isn't fair to me at all.


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Re: Help

Postby Leah » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:59 pm

Again, from my experience, you are jumping through too many hoops. I did that for five or six years. I don't see that as healthy, and you might discuss that with your therapist. You also might want to ask if your therapist recommends any other form of support for you. The reason I suggest that is you may never get what you want from your husband. What are you going to do in that case?
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:27 pm

I honestly just feel that he is being handled with kid gloves because it is porn. If he was man enough to watch it and destroy our marriage, he should be a man and step up and deal with it. Why should I have to deal with it on my own?


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Re: Help

Postby doug-h » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:47 pm

Hifromme67, I have supported you from your first post, and I will continue to do so, but your remarks right now are hateful and mean spirited, and they have nothing to do with anyone healing. Do you honestly think it is helpful or even right to question your husbands manhood? I know you are hurt, but that can only make things worse.

Your husband did not "destroy" your marriage. He looked at porn, he betrayed a trust, and there is no question that he damaged trust. Your marriage is intact as long as both of you are taking steps to put this in the past and leave it there. It might not be fair, and you might not like it, but at this point, you have as much responsibility for healing your marriage as he does.

You say he is being treated with kid gloves. Is he in recovery? Is he taking steps to ensure that he deals with this? If he is, he is honoring you and your marriage. What are you doing? Are you seeing any help at all for yourself? You have harped about what triggers him and how he addresses those triggers, and yet you make excuses for yours. I know you are wounded, and I am loathe to say something that would hurt you further, but you need truth spoken to you. You were triggered today, and you did nothing to deal with it. You allowed yourself to spiral deeper and deeper into your pain until you said some really mean things.

I really feel bad for both of you. I hurt for you for the betrayal you have suffered, but I also hurt for your husband, because I am not sure that he'll ever be able to do enough to satisfy your demand for justice.

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Re: Help

Postby Leah » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:14 pm

hifromme67 wrote:I honestly just feel that he is being handled with kid gloves because it is porn. If he was man enough to watch it and destroy our marriage, he should be a man and step up and deal with it. Why should I have to deal with it on my own?


Because it is your responsibility to deal with your own side of the equation. Of course his therapist is going to advocate for him. That's his/her job. Just like your therapist is there to advocate for you. If you don't want to go to the couple's session, don't go. Work with your therapist until you are in a place to handle your own feelings in a healthy way.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:18 pm

I DO want to go to joint, he refuses because he doesn't want to start all over again, is embarrassed and feels she (therapist) will rip him a "new" one (his words.). Honestly he makes excuses as to why he doesn't want to go. It's too far, he commutes all day and then will have to drive 45 minutes to see her. Well I have to do it so why not him?

So I am stuck only joining his sessions which are always one-sided. This isn't good for us because our marriage is not being dealt with. The ONLY thing being dealt with is the porn and NOT the damage it has caused to the marriage or to me. According to my therapist (who is a CSAT) porn addiction therapy should always include the addict, the victim and the marriage/relationship. None of these are being addressed. It will be almost a year of therapy for him and he still acts like he has no clue on things.

Please keep in mind that when I discovered the porn, we had already been in joint counseling for almost two years due to broken trust on his end. We were seeing his now therapist. She of course after about 4 months into his treatment decided she can no longer see us in joint sessions. So once again something is taken from me and I pay the price of having to seek another therapist and drive almost an hour out and triple the cost of the current one.

So forgive me for being angry or resentful but you really don't know all he has caused in the past.


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Re: Help

Postby Leah » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:57 pm

Maybe not, but I know what my own experience was, and there was plenty to address from my side of the equation. I needed healing and support, and I moved forward with that.
Leah

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Re: Help

Postby doug-h » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:34 pm

hifromme67 wrote:So forgive me for being angry or resentful but you really don't know all he has caused in the past.


You see, that's the thing. You are asking forgiveness for your anger and resentment, but they are only hurting you.

I don't know how to say this. I really wish I had the words. I am very much your husband, and I am also you. I have offended, and been offended. Nothing my wife does is going to heal me of my hurt. Sometimes, like you, I even decieve myself into believing that some acknowledgement of it would somehow diminish it, but I know that is a lie. I know the only way forward for me, is to ask forgiveness for my own sins, and to forgive hers unconditionally. That means I give up any right to anger, or resentment. It is in the past, and she can't undo it, any more than I can undo my own sins of adultery and pornography, and your husband can no more undo his sins than you can yours. You can commit to move beyond them.

I am not telling you that joint sessions are a bad thing, but I don't believe two unhealthy people can benefit in them until they have some baseline into their own issues. You say that your stuff is all his fault.

I am going to challenge you with a thought, and I don't want an answer, but I want you to think about it. If it is all on your husbands shoulders, then how did my wife forgive me? What is different? It isn't that your husbands betrayal was worse than mine. Far from it. The difference was my wife's heart, not my sin. I could no more earn her forgiveness than I could earn the forgiveness of Christ. I'm telling you that so that you can look to the real source of your pain. It is inside you, not your husband, and YOU need to understand that, because there is nothing in this world your husband, or a counselor can do to remove it. It has to be your desire. It has to be your work.

Yes, I know that seriously sucks. There is nothing fair about it. That doesn't make it any less true.

Anger and resentment are worse than dead ends. They slowly kill you from the inside out, and then they start destroying every single relationship, starting with your relationship with God.

I'm really sorry, Hifromme67. I don't know that I have anything else to offer, other than my prayers. I hope you know I am only speaking what I absolutely believe to be true, and not as an attack on you.

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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:33 pm

I am beyond frustrated and confused. DH is in individual therapy for porn addiction and I am in individual therapy as a result of his addiction. In the beginning he agreed to go to joint counseling and said he would do whatever it took. He is now refusing to go to joint (with a counselor other than his own) and I am at a loss.

I just want to give up. He gives various excuses as to why he doesn't want to but ultimately I believe it is because his therapist won't be there to protect or enable him. How will our marriage ever heal like this? I'm disgusted by his entitled attitude and literally want to puke on him.

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Re: Help

Postby Leah » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:52 pm

Hon, you've been here for almost a year. According you your OP in this thread, you have disabled internet at home and done what you can about the phones, but you are still in the same place you were in January.

What does healing your marriage really look like to you?
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:03 pm

I want to be at a point where we are able to discuss things, primarily his addiction and what it did to our marriage and how are we going to get over that. We go up and down on getting along and what not. Because his therapist has put it in his head that he doesn't have to discuss anything, we don't. I can only join his sessions which of course are with his therapist and I don't feel that is fair.


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Re: Help

Postby Leah » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:25 pm

Why does his addiction need to be discussed? Again.

What do you plan to do if you don't get what you want? It's been almost a year. If a discussion was going to happen, it seems like it would have happened by now.
Leah

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Help

Postby hifromme67 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:55 pm

Leah wrote:Why does his addiction need to be discussed? Again.

What do you plan to do if you don't get what you want? It's been almost a year. If a discussion was going to happen, it seems like it would have happened by now.



Leah, I am here for advice, to vent and mostly for support as the posa. I am not here to let someone make me feel bad or guilty for my feelings as you usually do.

As a reminder, I am NOT the addict nor did I betray my husband and our wedding vows. I had enough of that from one person and I really don't need it from a stranger in a forum. If you are simply going to continue to make me feel like nothing I feel or say is valid, I would respectfully ask that you no longer reply to my posts. Keep in mind that not everyone is the same and what may be good for you is not good for me and visa versa.


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Re: Help

Postby Leah » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:12 pm

I don't know how anything I said would be about feeling guilty. I just know that for almost the whole of this year I have noticed that most of the advice and counsel offered in this thread has been ignored. In all this time there have been some questions asked of you that have not been answered.

What are you and your counselor talking about and how have you progressed?
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: Help

Postby hifromme67 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:29 pm

Leah wrote:I don't know how anything I said would be about feeling guilty. I just know that for almost the whole of this year I have noticed that most of the advice and counsel offered in this thread has been ignored. In all this time there have been some questions asked of you that have not been answered.

What are you and your counselor talking about and how have you progressed?



Please keep in mind that because "our" counselor became "his" addiction therapist, she was no longer able to see us as a couple (after about 5 months into his recovery) so I had no choice but to find a new one. I have only been with her for about a month and a half. His therapist had been our therapist for almost two years prior to discovery.

My new therapist is a CSAT (certified sex addiction therapist) and feels that his therapist is practicing out of her expertise when it comes to sex addiction. She doesn't believe in 12 step, sponsor, meetings, etc. It also isn't just about the porn addiction, he has many, many issues which I don't have enough time to go into here. That was just the tip of the iceberg.


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