The Story of Cayenne: The Porn Chapter

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
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The Story of Cayenne: The Porn Chapter

Postby Cayenne » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:45 pm

I wasn't going to start out my first post with the full story, but it's just pouring out. I apologize for is its length. I have almost nobody to talk to....

My DH, for most his life, has had a pristine reputation. The vast majority of people love him because of his quiet, calm, kind, and loving disposition. He has been a trusted leader at church for years. He's just a clean cut man, raised in a Christian home by naive parents. When our first child was born, we chose incredibly high standards for our home, which included disposing of nearly our entire movie collection. We wanted to be perfectly pure before God, and focus our family on a more old fashioned outdoor lifestyle.

About 10 yrs ago, DH was falsely accused at work, and his character and reputation were brutally attacked. He was accused of all manner of immoral sexual behavior, of which he was both naive (he didn't even know what all their terminology meant), and innocent. He was mocked in vulgar ways. This episode continued over more than 7 years, with only brief respites, before it finally ended with his innocence intact. The trauma to both of us was significant.

About the same time that episode ended, our family endured a personal attack from a family at church in a totally unrelated matter. This family attempted to create suspicion and distrust between my DH and myself.

The end result? Both my DH and I found ourselves in deep depression. We are aware that we lack coping skills. My response to the depression was locking down emotionally. I found my escape in craft projects, pinterest, news and Facebook. I made the grave error of taking my tablet to bed with me to browse pinterest until I fell asleep. I did not want to have any time to think. My DH turned to one of the very things he'd been accused of for escape. Pornography. But I didn't know it at that time. I thought he was browsing his interests, reading news, etc. This condition lasted nearly 3 yrs.

Last summer, I noticed my husband every so slightly changing. Always a HD person, my drive had nearly shut off, and he eventually quit trying for physical intimacy. He didn't answer when I said, "I love you." Most people would still think him sweet and kind, that's his nature, but I noticed a difference. My depression deepened.

Last October I finally woke up enough to be suspicious of my DHs behavior, and for the first time in our nearly 20 yr marriage, found myself checking his phone and ipad (before this I had trusted him implicitly). I found tab after tab open, most were pornography. When I confronted him, he admitted he'd been secretly looking at porn for 3 yrs. He said he kept hoping he'd get caught, yet there was a lie or two right at first to cover things up. In front of me, he deleted over 240 links to movies and porn, I don't know how many were which category. Obviously, the porn is the big problem. There was more on his laptop. There were pages and pages in his history of cheap websites, filled with celebrities, models, etc. Maybe to most people, these wouldn't be so bad, but with the high standard we'd chosen, plus the secrecy, it's devastating. He's since admitted to watching fully pornographic videos. His sense of shame is tremendous.

Since October, we've had ups and downs. For me, it was like someone flipped a switch, and I came back to life. Literally, it felt like my brain turned on. My HD came back. Inexplicably, while hurt the deepest I've ever been in my life, my depression symptoms dissipated. Him - He's normally a quiet person who avoids confrontation, and he doesn't express feelings well at all. He's been struggling to open up for me, because he loves me and wants to keep me. (I made it clear I will not choose to live in a home with porn). So most discussion we have, I have to ask specific questions or its too big for him to verbalize (this isn't new, he's always been this way).

We do well most days, but others I have emotions triggered in a new way, I have an emotional breakdown, and I have to figure out how to cope all over again. He's always very patient with me.

DH feels his risk factors are mostly caused by loneliness and a weak self concept.... Changes we've made like banning devices from the bedroom (unless for mutually agreed reasons and time period) have improved several areas of intimacy. We've exposed some misunderstandings that were devastating to emotional intimacy. The youngest in the family got a quick transition to her own room.

I've done a lot of reading on Covenant Eyes blog (where I found a link to this website), and intellectually I can understand the psychology of why DH turned to porn, why it was escalating, and why he couldn't stop even though he hated himself for watching it. (Emotional understanding - I'm still struggling with).

DH says he hasn't struggled to stay away from porn at all since caught, and doesn't have trouble with images popping into his mind. He says the normal daily temptation men face hasn't been a problem to resist. This is a little hard for me to understand, but I choose to accept it. However - the one thing I cannot wrap my mind around is his statement that he never, ever M to porn. I'm a goal oriented person, and I can tell you if I was to ever get involved with porn, it would be with O as the objective. Thanks to all the male stereotypes, it's hard for me to accept that he hasn't... Everywhere I've read, until this forum, has said that some men claim to not M to porn, but they are probably lying because what is the point otherwise?

Anyone here who can identify with the kind of person I've described explain this to me? (The absence of M)

Also, if he was escalating, and couldn't stop on his own, how is it so easy for him to just stop with no apparent withdrawals?

I badly want to trust him again, but don't want to be made a fool of.
Last edited by Cayenne on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby doug-h » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:53 pm

First, I would like to say that it sounds like the two are on the right path. That doesn't mean the easy path, tho. For some it is easier, and for others it can be quite difficult. I'm praying it will be the first for you and your husband.

You asked a number of questions here and I will try to address the ones I think I might have some insight on. That insight comes from years as a porn user, but I have been totally clean for a little over 8 months now.

Also, if he was escalating, and couldn't stop on his own, how is it so easy for him to just stop with no apparent withdrawals?


When you say he couldn't stop on his own, would you say that he wasn't motivated to stop? I'm asking that, because for me, the motivation was such that returning to it was unthinkable. Whatever had me going back to it for all those years, was removed from me essentially in a single moment. There was no temptation, no desire to continue. I guess you could say I found my motivation, but I prefer to think of it as a healing touch. Is it possible that is the case for your husband?

As to the question about masturbation, I guess I draw a blank there. It is possible that he is telling the truth, and it is equally possible that he is too ashamed to tell the truth. Since he can't prove a negative, it all comes down to your willingness, or unwillingness to believe him. I guess my question to you is, how important is it for you to know details? Will they bring you any peace?

If you have any specific questions, I will try to answer them as honestly as possible. I am sure others will chime in as well.

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby jokerman » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:06 pm

If ten consecutive men answer "porn sessions always end in an orgasm," are you then going to conclude your husband is lying? Because I don't think that's fair. Every person is different, and maybe he avoided masturbation as a way to make the porn use "not so bad." There is an enormous amount of self-justification or weird qualifiers that people will create in order to minimize the impact of what they're doing.

As for the withdrawals, I don't know what kind of things you would see. It's not like substance abuse, where there's a physical reaction. The fact that he was caught was the shock that he needed to want to do a 180.

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby hifromme67 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:30 pm

My husband and I just had this conversation tonight which ended in an argument. He claims to not have used porn to M which makes no sense to me. If he wasn't desiring me during that time, he wasn't living without a release. I mean for me there was no desire, he would claim he was happy with the way things were and I was practically begging for sex.


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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby SquarePants » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:25 pm

How old is he? What kind of shape is he in? How old was the youngest that you moved out of your bedroom? How many kids do you have? How has his libido been throughout your marriage? Did I interpret correctly that you've are generally the high libido spouse? How are his energy levels for non-sexual things?

I've seen issues in other forums where a low libido husband looks at porn rather than seeking sex with his wife. In my opinion, it often looks like a husband with low testosterone, where real sex takes too much effort. I regards to masturbation, it could also be that it was too hard to find a time and location to safely masturbate. It may have been the case where he could sneak a few minutes here and there to see some images, but masturbation would have been impractical. I've also read accounts (in other forums) which looked like the husband was affected by the Madonna-whore syndrome, where the husband had trouble seeing his wife as a sex object after she had children. There could be a number of factors at play.

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby neilethere » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:27 am

Cayenne,

Doug-h has already asked, but I will ask again.

What difference does it make if he did or didn't masturbate?

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:47 am

doug-h wrote:When you say he couldn't stop on his own, would you say that he wasn't motivated to stop? I'm asking that, because for me, the motivation was such that returning to it was unthinkable.


This is perhaps the case. The bottom line of the misunderstandings was that he'd taken a couple incidents that happened over a period of years, combined with some things said, and interpreted them that I didn't love him anymore. When I explained what I was really thinking, that I do love him very much... even though it was dark in the room I saw the tear slip down his cheek. He says so much could have been prevented if there hadn't been misunderstandings. Its tragic, really. I've asked him if he's doing things now while he's strong, so that he won't go back to porn when he's weak.... He says he doesn't want to go back to porn, but he just doesn't know for sure what he'd do.

I've come realize I am much more important to him than I thought. It's a bit of a twist on my mind, because I've never considered myself to be anything special, but to him I obviously am.

I'm such a practical person, I want to know the odds of this happening again.... ( I might even have a mathematician somewhere on my side of the family). I know that's impossible for anyone to know, but I keep finding myself trying to find assurances... Once was more than enough to go through this!

There are some reasons why I think this way, though. Here's my thought process.

1. His looking at porn is not my fault. No matter how bad I behave, or how bad things get, he's responsible for his reactions.

2. I am responsible for my actions. Because of blah blah blah, I became physically and emotionally unavailable. The consequences of this was dramatically increasing his already traumatized state and loneliness. So you could reasonably say, I created a big risk factor(s) for him. I set the stage for him to look for comfort elsewhere.

3. If I am indeed responsible for causing the major risk factor(s), it stands to reason that I am able, by my behavior, to send him back into those thought processes that took him to porn. Or not.

See, this is where I get stuck. All the advice says it's impossible for the wife to be enough for her husband, that it has nothing to do with her. Yet, if I am a partial cause of the situation (keeping in mind point 1)....

And so I come full circle.

As to the question about masturbation, I guess I draw a blank there. It is possible that he is telling the truth, and it is equally possible that he is too ashamed to tell the truth. Since he can't prove a negative, it all comes down to your willingness, or unwillingness to believe him. I guess my question to you is, how important is it for you to know details? Will they bring you any peace?


How important is it? Well, I had assumed he had for months. As far as emotionally for me, at this point it makes no difference except for the truth. I'm a person who can handle all sorts of awful truth, but I cannot deal with untruths.

Logically, it makes a difference because of the chemicals in the brain. Correct me if I misunderstand, but I thought that the very act of O to porn releases chemicals in the brain that further strengthen the addiction. So, if he didn't M, then the addiction might not be as strong. I guess I'm looking for things to cling to that give me hope we can totally beat this problem more easily. (I know nothing is easy). It also helps me believe that he really can just walk away from porn and not look back.
Last edited by Cayenne on Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby mamame » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:51 am

How much fear do you have that there is more to be revealed?

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:53 am

jokerman wrote:If ten consecutive men answer "porn sessions always end in an orgasm," are you then going to conclude your husband is lying? Because I don't think that's fair.


I agree it wouldn't be fair. I'm mostly believing him at this point, I'm just struggling with what the benefit is to look at porn without it. I'm a girl, there's only so much I know about the male mind. :wink:

As for the withdrawals, I don't know what kind of things you would see. It's not like substance abuse, where there's a physical reaction.


That is a fair question. What would I expect to see? I've never been through this before. I really don't know. Maybe missing porn? He says he doesn't miss it, so maybe the shock of discovery was enough. The mind is such a mysterious thing sometimes.
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:01 am

hifromme67 wrote:He claims to not have used porn to M which makes no sense to me.


I understand this well.

Sometimes I think that even though I never really believed them, the stereotypes of men that are often repeated have gotten deeper into my subconscious than I realize. I never believed that men are 100% about sex, but we are told that in many ways as young girls. I think somehow, deeply in my mind, I've gotten the idea that ultimate goal of men is release in O, and that everything else is a means to that end.

Please understand, I don't believe things are this simple. People are wonderfully complex, multifaceted creatures. I just think that possibly this is making it harder for me understand the true thought processes. So now I'm trying to grasp just what those true thought processes are.
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:34 am

SquarePants wrote:How old is he?

Mid 40s

What kind of shape is he in?

He does mostly office work. Not great shape. Only slightly overweight, but he's been working on losing that very successfully. More than halfway to ideal weight in a few months.

How old was the youngest that you moved out of your bedroom?

5
She was a difficult transition, crying if we moved her to room, and keeping herself just enough awake to resist until we gave up and fell asleep, therefore letting her stay more often than not. When we were successful moving her, she often returned a couple hours later. We finally dealt with a few nights of loud protest.... Locked the door... And now she stays in her room. Hallelujah.

I fully realize we should have done this years earlier. Yet another symptom of the problems.

How many kids do you have?

2

How has his libido been throughout your marriage? Did I interpret correctly that you've are generally the high libido spouse? How are his energy levels for non-sexual things?


He's lower than me, but I wouldn't say he's low. He's never refused me, and always seemed happy to participate. I took meds for a time years ago that greatly increased my libido. As if I needed more. He didn't say much to me about it, but one day I heard him thank my doctor... (we were personal friends with the doctor.)

Energy levels is a different issue. He's having sleep issues too, possible sleep apnea, undiagnosed as of yet. That's making him tired all time. Losing weight is an attempt to improve that issue, and it has been helping.

I've seen issues in other forums where a low libido husband looks at porn rather than seeking sex with his wife. In my opinion, it often looks like a husband with low testosterone, where real sex takes too much effort.


I don't think this is the problem in our case. Both in words and actions, he prefers me to porn.

I regards to masturbation, it could also be that it was too hard to find a time and location to safely masturbate. It may have been the case where he could sneak a few minutes here and there to see some images, but masturbation would have been impractical.


He says he simply doesn't enjoy touching himself, and I don't have reason to disbelieve that.

Time and location could also play a big role. He was watching the porn right in bed with me! He just tipped the screen so I could never see what he was doing, and hit the "x" really fast if I got close enough. I would have noticed that kind of movement, if he'd been M.

I've also read accounts (in other forums) which looked like the husband was affected by the Madonna-whore syndrome, where the husband had trouble seeing his wife as a sex object after she had children. There could be a number of factors at play.


I don't think this one applies to us. He has no problems since I caught him. :)

The night I caught him, I didn't know how I'd ever let him touch me again. By the next night, though, I realized that if I put up barriers, I'd risk never getting them torn down later. So as they say, when you fall off the horse, you get up and get right back on. Our MB hasn't seen this much activity in years. Honestly, since we are also working on the emotional intimacy concurrently, the increased physical intimacy has been really healing to me. For both of us, there is a large emotional component to the physical too.
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Dale » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:22 am

jokerman wrote:Every person is different, and maybe he avoided masturbation as a way to make the porn use "not so bad." There is an enormous amount of self-justification or weird qualifiers that people will create in order to minimize the impact of what they're doing.


Jokerman is right on this. Men compartmentalize extremely well, it's how we are hardwired by God. Pornography and masturbation can often be two separate compartments in the man's mind (not always, of course, but it is definitely possible). The thinking goes that if the man does not masturbate to the porn, then he's not really being unfaithful to his wife and so the porn use is not so bad. In other words, the act of masturbation to release is what makes the husband unfaithful, and since he doesn't want to face that reality, his mind shuts porn and masturbation up in different compartments, keeping the two successfully separate and making the sin seem not so sinful (which is why, most likely, he could look at porn with you right next to him).

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:51 am

Dale wrote:In other words, the act of masturbation to release is what makes the husband unfaithful, and since he doesn't want to face that reality, his mind shuts porn and masturbation up in different compartments, keeping the two successfully separate and making the sin seem not so sinful


Ok, you just made a lot of sense. Especially the last phrase.

This has been a huge spiritual battle for him. He describes initially praying for deliverance. When that didn't come, he began to despair, wondering why God wouldn't answer his prayer. Finally, he go to the point of praying, please God, just strike me dead now because You're going to anyway and let's just get this over with. He says it's really called into question whether he really believes in God's gift of grace, like he thinks he does, or whether he thinks God expects him to be good enough on his own before He will accept him. I don't know if I'm making this thought clear. Basically, he had tied the whole porn thing into his spirituality, and it was destroying him from within on several levels. He had to compartmentalize at least some, just to survive.

At this point, I'm certain he is quite clear that from my perspective, porn is unfaithful, period. He feels very badly for what this has done to me.
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:47 pm

mamame wrote:How much fear do you have that there is more to be revealed?


I've gone round and round on this in my head. I hate being blind sided, so I'm very cautious.

At first, I was very scared there was more. Now, not so much. More cautiously believing this is all there is.

He's really made an effort to be more open with me in all areas. I don't sense dishonesty, after the night I caught him. In fact, that night was the only night I've ever caught him blatently lying in 20 yrs. I don't mean just to me, to others too. If he doesn't want to tell you something, he doesn't lie, he just doesn't say anything at all.

Then to discover he was hiding porn use for 3 yrs.... Obviously that makes me question everything.

In reality, he didn't even try to hide the porn very well. This is a guy who is very technical, very computer literate... He knows how to hide a trail. He made no effort whatsoever to hide his porn use, beyond keeping his screen tilted and closing windows if I got too close.... All I had to do all those years to find out was pick up his ipad (or laptop) and open safari. The history. Everything. Intact. He would not have protested if I looked at his devices, either. I already knew his passwords, we both use the same batch.... The laptop was left unattended at home with me every day. All that kept his secret was my blind trust.

From a strictly practical standpoint, I know where he is at all times. Not because we're controlling each other either, it's just worked out that way. If he's not at work, he's with me. That's just how we've always lived! There's precious little time to get involved in anything..... Except via internet. That's the exception (and I've examined that closely, now that I know, I'm technically oriented too ;) ). Before kids, I worked. Amazingly, it always happened during our marriage that we both worked for the same companies, just different departments. The last 10 yrs, prior to kids, my office was adjacent to his. I mean, same room adjacent. So adjacent, we could talk to each other from our desks, or lean over the Herman Miller walls to see each other. We ate lunch together every day. So, basically, I knew what he was doing and where he was all the time. How do I know the accusations I mentioned in my original post were false? I was there. I know without a doubt. It's actually been hard on us for me to be home with the kids, because we miss lunches together, saying hi in passing, etc all day. We currently have apps that track each other on our phones because we live way out in the country, and when I drive to town with the kids I have to go a distance. If I have car trouble, he wants to be able to find us. So, opportunity for anything else.... Next to nil. I'd know.

Wow, putting this in writing actually makes me feel a lot better.
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby OldBear » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:41 pm

Based on your original post, the title of this thread, and subsequent dialog it seems to me that three issues boil up to the top of your concerns. There may be other issues or these issues, as phrased, may be slightly off point.

1. Your role in your DH's turning to porn.
2. His truthfulness regarding using porn without masturbating.
3. Restoration of the sanctity of your marriage with the certainty that porn stays out of your marriage.

Here's some perspective to consider for each issue.

Firstly, we own responsibility for our behavior. Your DH 'owns' his use of porn. His rationale for what caused him to use porn - past devastating accusations, depression, activity or lack thereof in the marriage, giving into use of porn due to weakness - amount to excuses. Your concern that you may have caused or contributed to his porn use is also an excuse. God wired men to be visual, and men think a lot about sex a lot of the time. As Christian men we must be ever mindful of our tendency to be attracted by the form of a woman (not our own) and be resolute and accountable to not partake in pornography entering our mind through our eyes. Lots of single men use porn and they can't rationalize it because of a specific woman as they have no woman in their lives, so you ought to take comfort that your DH's decision to look at porn is driven by factors other than yourself. Men can rationalize turning to porn because things aren't exactly the way they want it to be in their marriage and marriage bed, but the nature of man (sinful when focused on a woman not his wife, and God-honoring when focus solely on his wife) is to be visually stimulated by the sights and sounds of the form and action of a sexual woman.

Secondly, most men use porn to culminate in orgasm. Do some men masturbate without the use of porn? Yes. Does all use of porn result in masturbation to orgasm or just short of orgasm? No, although unusual and rare. Can the use of porn be no different than reading a book for pleasure? NO Porn has no place in the marriage bed or out of the marriage bed. Porn is porn and not God's intend use for any man or woman. In your DH's case, he claims he never masturbated to porn; that's no justification nor is it honorable. When we use porn, we are committing adultery by virtue of lusting after the image or video of a person not our married mate. He may be truthful about his porn use in not physically masturbating, but he has been visually masturbating. Now what I'm about to say, I do so with sober thought. He deleted 240 web links to porn as you watched him do so. If your DH never physically masturbated to porn given that level of exposure, he is one strong and self-controlled man. Probably not a good analogy, but that's like Bear Grylls claiming he encountered 240 coiled rattle snakes and never got bit once. Though not an encouraging word, it seems to me that you and he may need further honest conversation.

Thirdly, any man that has had to deal with porn (yours truly) needs to recognize that it mirrors classic addictive vices. Rare is the person able to rid themselves of an addiction without the benefit of wise counsel, proven strategies to deal with the addiction, and life long commitment to keep themselves from temptation. Controls are essential (Internet blocks, open share of family devices, etc.) but they are not sufficient. Verifiable accountability is necessary. That's worth a conversation with your DH. Now that he's indicated his disappointment in porn use and confessed to you, he ought to be fully open to be accountable (to someone (a Godly man) other than you).

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:42 pm

OldBear wrote:Firstly, we own responsibility for our behavior. Your DH 'owns' his use of porn. His rationale for what caused him to use porn - past devastating accusations, depression, activity or lack thereof in the marriage, giving into use of porn due to weakness - amount to excuses.


He makes no excuse, no rationale. He said he did it, it was wrong, and he's sorry. He has never once said I did anything to cause it. Not once. He points to a weakness in his own character as the cause.

I am looking at the whole picture, and looking at what moved his psychology from a man who habitually resisted temptations, which is normal daily life for men, to no longer resisting and seeking it out. I see the stress, depression, etc as things that create risk factors. They don't cause the behavior, no, but they weaken the mind. There's whole lists of risk factors counselors have, and these are some of the items on that list. Risk factors don't make you do anything, only choices can do that. But a counselor can look at your risk factors, and say you are more likely to self medicate, escape, whatever, based on them. I'm struggling a bit with saying it's an excuse. I personally see it as trauma, which he was trying to medicate somehow, and he chose the wrong thing.

Your concern that you may have caused or contributed to his porn use is also an excuse. God wired men to be visual, and men think a lot about sex a lot of the time.



My concern is that when he was emotionally weak, and I knew it, I made obviously stupid choices that weren't helpful to his general state. I bear no responsibility for his choice to give in to temptation. I did not cause it. But I did make mistakes that contributed to his pain. I knew that he had nobody else to turn to, and I turned him off (and no, he couldn't find someone.... The term is gag orders). There's a whole list of positive ways he could have approached his problem instead. There's nothing in my mind that could possibly justify him self-medicating with porn. How do you suggest I view my own mistakes, that absolutely contribute to the whole picture, in a way that you would not consider to be an excuse? How do I own my behavior, without being an excuse to his? Flip side of the coin, he isn't responsible for my choices either.

I can't change the porn part of the picture.... This is what I was given, I had no choice in it. Yet, I must cope with it somehow. I could leave him, but what good would that do? Every man faces the same set of temptations!

In your DH's case, he claims he never masturbated to porn; that's no justification nor is it honorable.


He has never said it was either of those things. I asked him if he had, the question made sense in context, and his answer was no. I said, "you realize most men would say you are lying?" He said, "I know. But I didn't." That was it. He had nothing further to say. He has not once tried to justify his behavior. He is deeply ashamed of himself.

He deleted 240 web links to porn as you watched him do so. If your DH never physically masturbated to porn given that level of exposure, he is one strong and self-controlled man.


He deleted the links the night I caught him, I was pretty distraught, and didn't check the contents at all. I asked him what they were a few weeks ago. He said most were to mainstream movies. I asked if they were sex scenes. He said most were not. They had things in them like "Support Your Local Sheriff", "Maverick", etc. I assume you are familiar with titles of old western comedy. He said some were indeed porn, but he didn't recall exact numbers. He said he typically didn't go back and rewatch things, even though he linked them, mostly looked for new content. Yes, that number has given me pause more than once, but unless someone can direct me how to retrieve deleted favorites on an ipad, I don't know how to check how many were what, I'm a android girl. I did ask him why he deleted them if they were "ok" movies. He said because it was time to walk away from all that. (We don't watch movies or TV in our home, if that's worth anything to help with context. We may see an occasional movie elsewhere.)

Now that he's indicated his disappointment in porn use and confessed to you, he ought to be fully open to be accountable (to someone (a Godly man) other than you).

I understand and agree. He's been doing the 40 days app through covenant eyes, but that's not accountability either. He has tried a filter for our internet, but I'm not satisfied with it and he's agreed to look for something else. He's struggling with finding someone he can talk to. The incident mentioned left us both not trusting anyone at all. Totally and completely isolating. The second incident furthered the isolation. I can't elaborate, too many identity revealing details for my comfort. We have many casual friends, but almost no close ones. I have a couple women I can talk to and the only man he would consider close passed away a couple years ago. He will have to make time to find a support group, because he works, eats, and sleeps.... And that's about all he has time for these days, or he won't keep his job. Can't afford an intensive right now.

In this area I don't know what to do. Besides, its his problem to figure it out! :)


Everything I stated above is my understanding only, and not meant to convey that I'm any sort of expert. I am not. I simply speak confidently, lol.
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby decals » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:12 pm

Sounds like he is as close to perfect as any man, and better than most. If he is that good to you, time to forgive and move on. One flaw is not that bad, I am sure you have one too. Come to an agreement as how to monitor him in the future and get back to living. :=)

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Cayenne
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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:17 am

decals wrote:Sounds like he is as close to perfect as any man, and better than most. If he is that good to you, time to forgive and move on. One flaw is not that bad, I am sure you have one too. Come to an agreement as how to monitor him in the future and get back to living. :=)


I've been thinking about your comment since you posted it yesterday. I don't know if you are male or female, which might help give some context to your perspective, so I've considered your comment from both sides. I'm no stranger to forums, but I haven't been on this one very long, so I don't know if you've ever posted before and removed the posts. At this time, it does appear that you've been a member here for nearly 10 yrs, and the only post I see on your profile is this one. I appreciate you breaking your silence to affirm what a wonderful man I married.

I've wondered if I was looking at DH through the "rose coloured glasses", so to speak. Maybe he isn't really that great of a guy. So I will tell you a quick story. Two days ago, I walked into the post office. It actually is significant that I walked into the post office, and up to the counter. I haven't walked up to this particular post office counter.... Ever. And we've received our mail there for years. My DH has always taken care of anything I needed there for me, because he is in town for work every day anyway. So the lady at the counter was a kindly older lady, she began to help me. Then she spotted my last name on the envelope in front of me. She stopped, and said, "are you ____ ____'s wife?" I answered, "yes!" She instantly replied, "oh, he is just the nicest man!" She proceeded to tell me how she'd seen him many times at his place of employment, and how he was always so kind to her and her family. Now, of course, she sees him at the post office. I walked out, wishing people would speak that well of me, and thankful to know that I am not the only one that thinks he's the nicest man. Maybe it's not my imagination.

It's this very image I have of him that makes me almost have to pinch myself sometimes to believe that this is real. Most of the stories from wives of porn users speak of their husbands unkind, even demeaning, selfish behavior. I cannot relate. He has always been very good to me, even when I behave badly.

Now to actually respond to your comment.

The first thing you mentioned that I want to comment on is forgiveness. I am going to state right up front that I already forgave him. It was the first 24 hrs after I caught him. I had been praying what to say to him over and over throughout the conversation, when suddenly I knew. I forgave him, and had to tell him so. I am generally a forgiving person, but I will tell you that I am completely sure that this forgiveness was a gift from Above. How you find forgiveness your heart when it had just been broken the worst yet in your life? Yes, you could say I am blessed, and that things can and may get worse - and you would be correct. But at the moment of the new lowest of the lows, you feel nothing else but the current loss. Forgiveness was a Gift.

Several weeks ago I read an article written by the mother of the man that shot and killed the Amish school girls a number of years ago. She spoke of the forgiveness of the Amish community for her and her husband, even though they had just lost their daughters. What really struck me was the statement that these Amish parents had made the CHOICE to forgive. It didn't mean they weren't grieving. It didn't change the scope of their loss. But they were choosing forgiveness. This really spoke to my heart. It put to words the feeling my in heart that while I have made the choice of forgiveness, and I am free from bitterness and hate, I still struggle with grief and all the other psychological consequences of his porn use. I still struggle with my new reality. I have experienced a new loss in my life, and that won't change with the choice to forgive.

Now, that said, where do I go from here?

Yes, I have flaws. Many. I've always thought I had more than him. He has many flaws too. It just so happens that most of his flaws are compatible with mine. This flaw, if it even fits into the "flaw" category, is bad. It is not compatible or acceptable, it is 100% wrong. The moment he stopped resisting the temptation to look, and chose to seek out more, it became immoral. I will not reside in the same house should it continue to be indulged. I hope I do not have to make the decision to take that step, because it will break my heart. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do. I'm hopeful it won't come that.

Move on. It sounds very easy. Unfortunately, it's not.

You might argue that my case is so much better than the typical. Maybe so. But just like every other wife in this situation, my self esteem just took a huge blow.

Do I feel that my husband brought other women into my bed, even if only visually? Yes.
Do I see my sagging, post baby belly in the mirror, and cringe because I can't look like those women the screen? Yes.
Am I keenly aware of the effects of time and calories on my body, and know I can never compare to photos taken with perfect make up and lighting? Yes.
Do I now stand in the checkout line and wonder if he's looking at the magazine covers? Yes
Do I, out of the blue, get hit with the horrible thought... I hope this isn't a trigger that will send him back? Yes
Do I ever just look at him, and wonder, if he loves me, how could he have done this to me? Yes.
Do I cry myself sleep some nights because I want the pain to stop? Yes
Do I wonder how long it will take before I can trust again? Absolutely.

I know those thoughts are from emotional side. I know things aren't that simple from the man's perspective. I am more visual, higher drive, and value logic more than most women I know, and I know what an impossible divide that can create for understanding between me and other women. I can imagine how much bigger that divide is between men and women. But that understanding doesn't erase the emotional side of me. The side that comes out when I am tired. These days, I am very tired.


Keep in mind, the same things that traumatized him.... Traumatized me. He had been fighting depression, so have I. He has been isolated, so have I. It could have been me that acted out immorally. ( I don't say this as an excuse for him. I know my heart and my temptations. The things that tempt me are limited by opportunity. He crossed the unacceptable line before I could.) His coping skills are weak, so are mine. We both need healing. Just from different sides of the issue. This takes time. The initial problems of trauma and depression still have to be addressed. Porn is yet another item on the list.

Quite simply put, we've both forgotten how to live.

But, by the grace of God, go I.
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Medic » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:38 pm

Cayenne wrote:I understand and agree. He's been doing the 40 days app through covenant eyes, but that's not accountability either. He has tried a filter for our internet, but I'm not satisfied with it and he's agreed to look for something else.


May I recommend Ever Accountable software? It has REALLY helped me. In my opinion it is VERY easy to get around any sort of blocking system, as I did when I was a teen, and so I think accountability software is the better route. This works on phones and computers. It tracks app usage and everything that is looked up. It also tracks the "private browsing/disguise mode" on browsers also. The results can be sent to up to 3 people. Anyways you can check them out online if you want to learn more. :D

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Re: Pornography without Masturbation (and my story - its lon

Postby Cayenne » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:44 pm

Medic wrote:In my opinion it is VERY easy to get around any sort of blocking system, as I did when I was a teen, and so I think accountability software is the better route.


It took me less than a minute to circumvent OpenDNS. Not only that, but I checked a number of websites from his history.... It only blocked 1/6.

I'll check out your suggestion.
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."


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