Not sure what to make of this

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Not sure what to make of this

Postby av8r75 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:01 am

I have long struggled with porn...essentially since the birth of the web as we know it 20 years ago. DW, of course, has not. She is not a particularly sexual person and does not at all understand the appeal porn has to me.

So for other reasons at the beginning of the year I began to note every time we made love. Results thus far are:

J - 1, F - 2, M - 2, A - 2, M - 2, J - 6, J - 4, A - 2

A histogram would be striking. Without exception she initiated (I don't initiate anymore). What happened?

On June 2 we began Game of Thrones and proceeded to binge all 5 seasons in 6 weeks. Without debating the merits, or lack of, of the program, there is no question that there is a good deal of nudity and sexuality in the show, something that rarely, if ever, crosses her eyes. To me the impact is pretty clear. Nothing else correlates. Since ending the show in late July we have returned to twice monthly.

I want to approach her with this, not as an excuse for my porn use, but simply to show her that she is suceptible as well. I should say that I draw a sharp distinction between seeing sex and nudity together in a show that both greatly enjoy, and privately watching something (even the same show) against the other's wishes. I understand that opinions here will vary, and for this thread at least that's beside the point.

So I'm torn. I want to bring it up, as a way of suggesting that she can be more intentional, but it also seems like a jerk move.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby Leah » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:38 am

Since you don't want to debate the merits of the show, I'm going to suggest you just appreciate what you have there and not try to explore motive or intent.
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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby doug-h » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:03 am

I'm not going to discuss the merit of the show, but I find it curious that you make the connection that more nudity/exposure, makes your wife more amorous, and yet you state that you do not initiate.

While I am sure that there are a number of factors that come into play, I would be willing to argue that as long as you are satisfying yourself on the side, you are less inclined to seek satisfaction where you should be. I know that you will probably respond that you have given up trying, but for myself, when I gave up porn usage, I was not about to give up sex, and where I might have given my wife a pass on her behavior before, I was a lot more inclined to have difficult, and fruitful discussions about our sex life. What is more, she saw it for herself, and became a lot more willing to be there for me, when she truly believed that I reserved my eyes exclusively for her.

You can make the argument to your wife if you want, but I can only see it backfiring. It is much more likely to be perceived as you justifying your porn use, than anything else.

I really don't think opinions on this subject will vary as much as you might be telling yourself.

For my part, I do believe it would be a Jerk move.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby av8r75 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:15 am

I guess I should have included that I am porn free for several months now. I can't really claim the two are related...I just sort of decided to cut it off again.


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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:00 am

I'm trying to understand exactly what you are hoping will come out of sharing with her.... that she would be more understanding to your struggle? That it will be a light-bulb moment, so she will seek out that kind of stimulation to make her more intentional with you? What is your hope the conclusion would be?
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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby Pallando » Mon Sep 05, 2016 11:15 am

I think I can confirm your suspicions in my experience (DW is more amorous after watching more risqué movies or shows (usually on accident)) but as with others, I fail to see what your point or motive is in pointing this out.

I don't think it's healthy, despite the positive aspects you have noted.

I think it will come across as an attempt to lessen the blow of your porn addiction. Yes, it is frustrating for her to not see it in herself.

I don't think this should be addressed unless it's in conjunction with "I don't think we should watch this show anymore."

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby Hiswifeagain » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:30 pm

That's the same sort of response a lot of women get after watching Fifty Shades of Grey from what I've read. I've also read that the spike is short lived which makes sense to me because short cuts usually are short lived. Watching other people having sex doesn't really grow true intimacy. Pintus and Dillow of Passion Pursuit call it counterfeit intimacy. I think that's a fitting description.

I can't see any reason to bring it up with her that is really in her best interest or the best interest of your marriage. JMO.


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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby av8r75 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:51 pm

I guess I have two thoughts:

1. Being made aware that she is also suceptible to sexual imagery might at least help her understand my struggle, as opposed to her current belief that there is just something fundamentally wrong with me.

2. That it could work as a springboard to encouraging her to be more intentional in her own sexual thoughts. I go into my head all the time with images of her and us; she can do the same with benefits for our married intimacy.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby seeking perspective » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:13 pm

These reasons strike me as being more about helping you (being understood and getting more sex) than about helping her (just my perception as a wife who spent years perceiving everything as my husband's attempt to get more sex).

I used to get a similar effect from reading trashy romance novels--and there is no way that helped me be more intentional about thinking about my husband and me. I was aware of the effect and felt kind of guilty about it. When I would try to put my husband in my mind instead, I saw all the ways he was not as wonderful as the men in the novels. So although you might think this could be transferable, that might not actually be the case.

While it is good for her to understand that there is nothing wrong with your desires (even if there is with the way you have sought the fulfillment of them), pointing out that she is the same way (which will likely be interpreted as meaning she is just as bad) may well have the effect of putting her on the defensive and getting her to work harder to suppress her sexual thoughts. I don't sense that is what you want. Many wives don't respond well when they discover their husbands have been tracking sex, either.

Given what you say in your prayer thread and your wife's feelings about having been lied to, perhaps this is a time when you should be extra gentle. Next time she initiates, enjoy--and sometime later, ask her what led to her feelings of being amorous.

In addition to tracking sexual encounters and Game of Thrones, are you also tracking her monthly cycle? And is the effect from the show you were watching, or is it possible that it stems partly from the fact that you were watching something together? My husband and I bingewatch some shows together, and I always feel more connected to him during that time. There is something about sharing the experience of being slugs on the couch together, trying to figure out what is going to happen, and eating junky food together that helps me feel more like loving--whether we are watching show with a lot of sexual scenes or something like Fuller House.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby doug-h » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:23 pm

av8r75 wrote:I guess I have two thoughts:

1. Being made aware that she is also suceptible to sexual imagery might at least help her understand my struggle, as opposed to her current belief that there is just something fundamentally wrong with me.

There is something fundamentally wrong with you, just as there is something fundamentally wrong with your wife, and all the rest of us. Knowing that we have weakness and struggles does not give us a free pass. Maybe if you understood your own brokenness, you would be more willing to see your wife's, and try to work within it and help her overcome it. The action you are considering is not in the interest of overcoming, but seeking acceptance. It is little more than two kids quarreling in the back seat, and using the misdeeds of their sibling to justify their own.

I'm not saying that I am good at that. It is a daily struggle for me. My wife and I have a pretty good thing going now, but there is a lot of history that would probably be impossible for me to reconcile without just saying we are just broken, have always been broken, and will always be broken.


av8r75 wrote:2. That it could work as a springboard to encouraging her to be more intentional in her own sexual thoughts. I go into my head all the time with images of her and us; she can do the same with benefits for our married intimacy.

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Take this for what it is worth, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.

I am curious. You said you have been clean now for 2 months. That means that your wife has had a husband who has been porn free for 2 months. Have you ever confessed and repented, and asked for forgiveness, or did you just say you were not going to do it any more, or did you say nothing?

Brother, I am in your corner here, and I was where you are now a year ago. The truth is, I was probably worse. All I can say is that it has been 2 months, and that is not a lot of time for her to trust in your commitment. I can promise that if she suddenly started having sex with you 3 times a week, it would take longer than 2 months for you to believe in the change.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:55 pm

I can understand wanting to be understood, and desiring more from her for the sake of your relationship. This is probably not the best way to do it. There are books, articles, blogs, etc. that would do a much more thorough job on helping her understand you and your struggle, if she's open to that. It's especially a bad idea on the tail of your recent revelations, unless it's obvious that the Spirit has led you two to this kind of conversation.

I have no doubt there was a connection to what you were watching, and her actions.... as SP pointed out, just reading certain style books can do the same thing. I agree that it's a counterfeit intimacy. I don't want to discourage you more, but I want you to see that this is not something you want to settle for. When I would read or watch something that would cause me to initiate something with my husband, it really had nothing to do with me wanting to connect with him, I just had a sexual want/need/desire I wanted fulfilled and my husband was a way to get that desire met. Although our bodies were connecting, my mind was in another place living a fantasy. I wasn't present. That's not true intimacy, and that not what you want.

Keep praying that God works and brings you guys together in your current struggles. Pray that you will live a life of integrity. Even pray that He stirs a godly passion in your wife for you. I have been praying for you two since your prayer request. I have been where your wife is, on the other end of deception...and I can totally agree that the lies are much worse then the actual act that was being hidden. It takes time to work through it, but if you guys keep working, you can get to better place in your marriage....don't lose hope, don't grow weary in doing good.
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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby av8r75 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:49 pm

Thank you all for your input, and for reminding me why I thought to bring this here first.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby farmer1 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:02 am

av8r75 wrote:2. That it could work as a springboard to encouraging her to be more intentional in her own sexual thoughts. I go into my head all the time with images of her and us; she can do the same with benefits for our married intimacy.

Figuring out how to encourage her to be more intentional in her own thoughts is certainly a legitimate discussion to have at some point. However, as others have pointed out I would leave out the porn comparison. You could say something like, "I noticed when we were watching X together really good things were happening in our bedroom and I absolutely loved it. Now how could I help you/us do that on a regular basis without the negative external trigger?"

Many of us get exactly where you are coming from on this point. When you are sharing life with very low drive/no libido spouse sex is most fulfilling on the rare occasions when the ld spouse is interested in it for themselves/really turned on and not just trying to pacify you. My wife is wonderfully willing to have sex. We have it at least a couple of times a week. She wants a happy husband and is amazingly good hearted about it. But I can count on a couple of hands the times in the last few years when she was really fired up for it. Once after we had read a certain chapter in Schnarch's book Passionate Marriage. Those who have read it will probably know which one I'm talking about. :lol: Another time after she had watched whatever that popular Vampire movie is. And similar to your story a couple times after watching steamy episodes of the Americans TV show. I'm sure if I pointed these times out now she wouldn't know what I'm talking about, but believe me I noticed. :D

Please anyone who has figured out how to consistently trigger a low drive spouse into positive intentional behavior without using external negative influences let us all know!!
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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby Job29Man » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:49 am

av8r75 wrote: June 2 we began Game of Thrones and proceeded to binge all 5 seasons in 6 weeks...there is a good deal of nudity and sexuality in the show


av8r75 wrote:..I am porn free for several months now.


:? ::huh
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Re: RE: Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby av8r75 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:01 am

I addressed that in my original post. Happy to talk about it in PM or a different thread.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby Job29Man » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:04 pm

av8r75 wrote:...I should say that I draw a sharp distinction between seeing sex and nudity together in a show that both greatly enjoy, and privately watching something (even the same show) against the other's wishes.
If I'm understanding correctly, you are saying that it's not really pornography if you watch it consensually together, but if you sneak it alone it is pornography? I'm just trying to understand here.

av8r75 wrote:I understand that opinions here will vary, and for this thread at least that's beside the point.
Well yes, opinions may vary on this, and it's good to be clear about definitions. So seeing as this is not a "protected" forum (like "Those who say no" or "Refused") we get to ask for clarification of statements, and even to challenge the premise of the thread.

I'm not being hostile, just wanting to make sure I understand. Seeing it together, willingly, makes it not porn, and allows that you are still "porn-free?"
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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby av8r75 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:50 pm

For my purposes, if I intentionally hide that I'm watching something from my wife, it is porn. I except Game of Thrones (and Titanic, or Flight, or Forrest Gump, for that matter) for these purposes because I am not hiding anything (we're watching and enjoying the show or movie together) and because sexual arousal is not the sole, or even primary, purpose of any of them. So while I know that people here would disagree with that position for now that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby seeking perspective » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:15 pm

av8r75 wrote: . . . and because sexual arousal is not the sole, or even primary, purpose of any of them . . .


Consider that perhaps it is important to consider not the purpose but the effect. I am not going to debate your definition of porn, but I think this speaks directly to your OP--not beside the point at all. Your wife watches these shows and ends up feeling sexual desire. You've determined that the nudity and sexuality in GoT arouses her.

Is that really what you want? This isn't just a matter of "awesome, my wife is turned on." It's a matter of "my wife got turned on by something/someone other than me." This is not real intimacy. Two people who have just gotten turned on watching something and then have sex are not having sexual intimacy. They are letting their bodies have sex with each other while their minds are tuned in to someone from the screen. When your wife has sex with you, don't you want her to be with you? If you watch something and get turned on while watching a good story (sort of like seeing the centerfold while reading for the articles), your arousal is connected to those images regardless of whether or not arousal was your purpose in watching.

What you describe isn't intimacy at all. I have to wonder what porn and other sexual imagery has taught you about what intimacy is.
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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby Vanna » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:30 pm

I wonder if it doesn't have as much to do with the amount of increased quality time and shared interest from binge watching together?

Some gals really respond to extra connection time.
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Re: Not sure what to make of this

Postby av8r75 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:01 am

Vanna, pretty much every evening is shared, quality time. We are pretty strict getting the kids into bed and letting them know that it's "our time"n amd that it's important. A lot of times we're watching one thing or another, when the weather is nice we'll sit outside with a beer and a fire. That connection time is a stable constant, and has been for most of our marriage.

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