I did something really stupid.

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
sunny-dee
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby sunny-dee » Wed May 31, 2017 11:33 am

Oh, oh, also -- there is no "all about him" in a marriage. That actually reinforces the perception in women. In marriage things, it's all about us. It doesn't make it better if it's "all about him." It just feels like he's pushing his wife further away. Like he crossed his fingers when he said the vows.

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Cayenne
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I did something really stupid.

Postby Cayenne » Wed May 31, 2017 11:36 am

TJC wrote:It truly amazes me that this idea persists, that one's satisfaction with sex life with his wife, has anything to do with a man's use of porn. It seems no matter how many times, from how many different men they hear it from, wives cling to this idea. Sorry ladies, his porn use is not about you. It's all about him, and his relationship with God.


I'm not meaning to pick on you, TJC, because I could pick any of a dozen men's comments here to use for this illustration..... you just lended yourself to it wth this comment. :)

I understand what you are saying..... however.... (unless I've got you mixed up with someone else, and if so I apologize) I have seen you post how you are feeling tempted to use porn because your wife is distant, sick, unavailable for some reason.... so, it's not so straight forward as us just believing it's not about us because you say so.... there are mixed messages sent.

Dandelion Lawn, he can't have it both ways. Maintaining both lives might seem to work temporarily, but eventually it will erode him to the point it destroys the life he has with you.
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

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SeekingChange
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby SeekingChange » Wed May 31, 2017 11:50 am

sunny-dee wrote:This is a really binary decision -- it's me or porn. Every time he chooses porn, he is also choosing not me. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Have you ever taken this thought process and applied it to yourself and your relationship with the Lord? On the surface, it seems true, we are choosing sin or we are choosing Christ.... yet, there is one choice that overrides some of those other choices. Yes, I may still sin, but that does not negate the fact that He chose me and I am His. I am not removed from Him and He does not remove the Spirit from me just because I succumb to a sin. I am still the Lord's Bride, even though I still sometimes act in my flesh. I am still my husband's wife, the one he chose, even when he has allowed his temptation lead him to sin. It's the truth (**that which is collectively and objectively correct and right. It speaks not only to action, but also to motivation. It gets to the heart of the matter.) we need to stand on, not the facts (**a correctness that we assign to a situation based on data, science, or observation. That which we can observe or prove). A fact can miss the heart and the motivation.


**Allan Kelsey, Strengths Based Marriage
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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sunny-dee
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby sunny-dee » Wed May 31, 2017 3:26 pm

SeekingChange wrote:Have you ever taken this thought process and applied it to yourself and your relationship with the Lord?


Yes, of course. I'm not saying that's a pleasant experience (it can be really, really humbling!), but of course I have. I do wonder how God feels, from his perspective. Going totally conceptual here, his perspective is perfect (while mine is very much not), so I do wonder if God feels the betrayal or isolation that I do? Or does he look at it with more indulgence, like a parent and child, so the sin impacts him differently?

I am still my husband's wife, the one he chose, even when he has allowed his temptation lead him to sin. It's the truth (**that which is collectively and objectively correct and right. It speaks not only to action, but also to motivation. It gets to the heart of the matter.) we need to stand on, not the facts (**a correctness that we assign to a situation based on data, science, or observation. That which we can observe or prove). A fact can miss the heart and the motivation.


Well, I'm still married, so I don't think that the porn use automatically negates the marriage and that's not a step I have taken or would take at this moment in time.

But I will say this -- I don't think my husband married me for the reason your husband or a lot of the husbands here married their wives. I don't think my husband was in love with me. I don't think there was a romantic or even sexual component to it. I think he married me for comfort and for peace and for stability. I'm like the human version of sweat pants. Within that definition, I think he loves me dearly, but it's not romantic*. I had been questioning that for almost three years when I found out he had been using porn routinely for our entire marriage and while we were dating, while rejecting physical intimacy (and for that matter, physical affection) with me. It made a lot of sense at that point -- you can't force what you don't feel. It's not just that I'm not his sole focus for sexual desire; it's that I am not any part of his sexual desire.

He can't say that the porn use wasn't reflective of how he felt about me or our relationship. You can't parcel out affection by the thimbleful for years and then say that the porn use doesn't mean anything, because it does. The whole thing means something.



* I don't mean flowers-and-chocolates romantic.

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Dandelion_lawn
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Dandelion_lawn » Wed May 31, 2017 3:55 pm

Sunny-dee, my heart just breaks for you every time I read one of your posts. I hope your husband heart changes drastically towards you.

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TJC
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby TJC » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:20 am

I stand by my statement ladies. Does my wife and our relationship affect how much I'm tempted? Of course. That being said, I had an issue with porn before I met my wife, and it did not magically go away when I married. And I struggle against it, not because of how it affects my wife, but because of how it affects my relationship with Jesus. I don't ogle women on the street because of how it would affect my witness as a Christian. Indeed before I became a Christian, I had no problem with any of this, even while married. My wife knew about it and accepted that was just something I was fond of, and that it had nothing to do with our marriage. To my knowledge, she has never taken it to say anything about herself, or the condition of our marriage. It only has concerned her because of how it affects my relationship with Jesus.
This is my beloved and this is my friend. Song of Solomon 5:16

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby doug-h » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:03 am

I'm likely to get real unpopular, real quick, on both sides of this discussion.

First, porn is not a struggle. It is a choice.

That is not to say that a struggle does not exist. The struggle is the one which allows us to shut out our conscience, just one more time. It could be porn, it could be apple pie. The struggle is "I know I shouldn't, but I want it anyways". There are unintentional sins. There is that impulse utterance of a swear word when you accidentally hit your thumb with a hammer. That is not what porn is.

Consuming porn is a very deliberate act. I have never liked the term addiction as it relates to porn, but there are a lot of similarities between it and alcohol abuse or drug abuse. One of those similarities, is that those are also choices. A man under the influence does lose the ability to make sound decisions, but everyone is sober sometimes, and in that sobriety, makes a deliberate choice to have a drink, or take a hit of meth, or to turn on that laptop and start browsing. The reasons for making those choices are many, and often the same ones, whether it is porn, pot or apple pie. Sometimes there is a deep rooted pain that is being medicated, and sometimes it is little more than a selfish pleasure.

For the ladies who are so certain that it is a choice against you. You are right. You are right in the sense that if you have stated objections to it, whatever they might be, there is a choice to, silence those objections in our minds (I am being specific to use the word mind, rather than heart. I'll expand on that later) , and do what we want. There is a choice to put our wants, our desires, above yours. That said, it is not necessarily choosing porn over you. In the vast majority of men, it is choosing porn AND you. In that sense, it has very little to do with you. If you were a runway model, perfect and beautiful in every way, the choice would almost always be the same.

As for the matter of whether the battle rages in the mind, or in the heart, I don't think it can ever be won in the mind. The mind is where justification lives, and for every argument against, there is an argument that says it isn't so bad. The mind says, " it's not about her", or "She should just get over It". The mind tells you that you deserve it. I really believe that it is impossible to win the battle in the mind.

None of this is to say that it is easy to quit. I'm not sure a man is capable of moving the battle into his heart where it can be won. The decision to do so would have to be made in the mind. I just don't know how that would work. Im not sure you can "decide" to be broken to that degree.

You can decide to get in the battle tho, and fight, as many men here have done. There are also men who are not in the battle at all, as evidenced by this thread and others.
You can enlist allies, develop strategies, and take some ground back. The stronger your battle plan, the more likely you will be met with success. I think, as in a physical war, that there will be wins and losses, but you can turn tide in your favor.

The battle will never reside completely in your heart, and it shouldn't reside completely in your mind, so I don't know that a perfect victory is even possible without divine intervention.

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SeekingChange
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby SeekingChange » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:28 am

Why is it a battle and a need to fight if it's not a struggle? If it was simply a choice, that should be an easy yes or no. And that could be applied to any and every sin or lust. And I would like to hear from anyone who says they don't know the struggle against their flesh and sin.

I agree there's a choice involved, but to deny the struggle isn't a benefit for either side of the matter.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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TJC
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby TJC » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:13 am

As SC said, porn IS a struggle against sin, as is any wrong behavior. To deny that, is to deny you have sinful flesh. That does not make it any less sinful, or wrong.But if a wife makes it about how it makes her feel, or what it says about her or her performance as a wife, or their marriage, it takes the focus off what it's really about, which is the man's relationship with God. It's putting the cart before the horse. If a man is only concerned about his porn use because of his wife, he is doomed to fall, because he is not concerned with the one who paid the price for his sin. "If for this life only, we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men, most to be pitied".
This is my beloved and this is my friend. Song of Solomon 5:16

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby doug-h » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:37 am

I don't think we disagree, other than how we choose to express ourselves

I don't have to win a struggle with any temptation. I have to win the battle with myself, regardless of the temptation. In other words, as you stated, I have to win the battle with my flesh. If that battle is won, even for a moment, then Porn has no power in that moment.

I have yet to meet anyone who had a history of porn consumption, that did not also admit that they first justified it, and then consumed. You simply can not go thru the multiple steps to access it without that process, even if it is just a single click on a link that managed to find its way thru the junk filter in your e-mail. The choice is not whether or not to look at porn. The choice is whether or not to silence your conscience.

TJC, if a wife feels that it is a betrayal, and has stated so, then that decision does include her. At that point, you not only have to silence your conscience about right and wrong, you are also choosing to put your selfish desires before your wife's feelings. You are either deciding to do so in secret which adds deceit, or.you are doing so in the open. Either way, it is a choice that has a great deal to do with your spouse.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Leah » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:14 am

Porn is sometimes a convenient drug of choice for men who want sexual release without the hassle of relationship. It's in the literature. And in that case, it *is* a choice against a wife. A wife's feeling of rejection is valid and is something to be understood and dealt with in context. This case is one where there is no lack of willingness on the part of the wife. It is where the husband doesn't want the messiness of having to deal with his wife and her needs.

This is why the objectification of women is so dangerous. It wrecks real relationship.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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bigloop
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby bigloop » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:20 am

ItsJustUs wrote:
TJC wrote:It truly amazes me that this idea persists, that one's satisfaction with sex life with his wife, has anything to do with a man's use of porn. It seems no matter how many times, from how many different men they hear it from, wives cling to this idea. Sorry ladies, his porn use is not about you. It's all about him, and his relationship with God.


Maybe because it's so foreign to me that a man can lust after a woman in porn and have it be completely separate from how he views his wife. I mean, I've heard from a lot of people that basically a wife should make sure her husband is getting steak in the bedroom so he doesn't go looking for hamburger other places. With that being told, how can a wife not see a connection between her husband's use of porn or ogling women in bikinis at the beach as anything but a commentary on his unhappiness with her body or sexual "services"?


IJU - the "truth" will vary from man to man, and can even vary within one man from time to time. Porn does effect the brain like a drug. So that can have the effect of causing false narratives to seem true in his brain. Someone on here can say "it is all about the wife" and another can say "it is all about him." From the perspective of the man, both can be true at times. Perception is reality (truth) to the one perceiving. The key to recovery is the effort to change one's perception. And THAT effort is totally the responsibility of the man in this case. THAT is totally on him. The wife can really do little unless and until he is willing and actively working to change that perception.

Proverbs 5:18-23

It is an active effort.

sricke66
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby sricke66 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:10 pm

@ Kilarin What was the beverage? I would love to try it!


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Kilarin
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Kilarin » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:37 pm

sricke66 wrote:@ Kilarin What was the beverage? I would love to try it!

La Croix was the unsweetened carbonated beverage that I ended up falling in love with. But I've since learned that the cheaper in store generic brands of unsweetened carbonated beverages are just as good. You can also just buy unflavored carbonated water and add a tiny bit of your favorite flavoring (usually fruit juice in my case) and get some very nice results.


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