I did something really stupid.

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
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Dandelion_lawn
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I did something really stupid.

Postby Dandelion_lawn » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:09 am

Last night dh kept losing his erection. This has happened a few times since he's given up porn ten months ago, though I don't think it happened before that. I never really know what to do when this happens. I don't want to make things worse for him. I've tried to keep things going when this has happened, and have tried os to resurrect things, but that hasn't worked. Last night, it didn't seem like a horrible idea to me to pull up a short porn clip from the Internet to have playing beside us to see if that helped. On one hand, it worked like a charm. He got a great erection and managed to reach o quickly. Of course, that's the only good that came of it. Now I'm wondering why he isn't attracted to me. Clearly everything works for him physically. Isn't quitting porn and trying harder not to oggle women supposed to make him more attracted to me, not less? I had figured the porn clip might help a bit, but don't know what to think of just how well it worked.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby doug-h » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:52 am

DL,

First, don't beat yourself up. Second, don't give in to the direction that your mind wants to take you. It is a lie.

As a man, and a former porn user, I will tell you that sometimes I do have trouble with maintaining an errection. My wife and I have not had sex in 6 weeks until yesterday, because of a separation while she was caring for her parents. All I could think of, as the time drew close, was having that connection with her, and guess what. Things just didn't work the way I had built it up in my mind. We had a great time, but things just weren't working the way I had built up in my mind. We even waited a day longer than we had to so we could be rested. It wasn't easy for me to wait, but it was worth it to me.

I can assure you that there was nothing or no-one else that I wanted more, and things took a downward turn (pun intended) at the worst possible time. Then, I woke up early this AM, and everything was as it should be, so I know the equipment works fine.

I can categorically rule out equipment failure, and a failure to desire completely, as the source of the problem. Cant remember too many times when I wantwd her more.
Mostly, it was most likely performance anxiety, because I had been building things up in my mind. It is also quite likely that my body was still fatigued from the last week as well.

I know that you are questioning things because he did respond to the porn, but our bodies don't always get to choose a lot of the time, even when our hearts are set a certain way. It doesn't mean what you are trying to tell yourself it means. I have enough experience with porn to know that it will have an effect, even when you might be hating yourself for looking at it. It can and does short circuit a lot of the normal responses. It was certainly a bad idea to bring it into the bed, but I can understand the reasoning. It isn't something that can't be overcome tho. Talk to your husband, show him my post, and see what he says.
Last edited by doug-h on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Drob » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:55 am

It might have been your attitude of being "naughty" rather than the porn that made the difference. I suggest you work that angle and see if it gets the same results

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby ledgemoor » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:18 pm

I agree. Do you have any videos of the two of you having sex? If you want to be really "naughty" next time, show those instead :D. Or surprise him with a new video of you exhibiting the wares.

Isn't quitting porn and trying harder not to oggle women supposed to make him more attracted to me, not less?
Not necessarily. There is something inherently sexual about a picture of naked people. It could be considered a common fetish. It's not that they are prettier, but that they are in a picture.
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby SeekingChange » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:59 pm

My heart breaks for you and falling into sin never is the answer, yet, I know that I do it over and over in different areas :( I was a wife who has led her husband into temptation, without having a clue on the true impact it would have on him.

Have you confessed, repented and sought forgiveness from God and your husband? That alone will help you begin in your healing, and I will even go as far to say that it is absolutely necessary for your healing. It may not seem like it at the moment, but God will use this for good.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Kilarin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:28 pm

A true story:

I used to drink a lot of very highly sweetened beverages. First drinks that were mostly sugar, and then later switching to artificially sweetened drinks. I finally decided to try and reduce my dependency on "sweet" stuff, because neither the sugar nor the artificial sweeteners are good for you in large quantities. So I purchased a 12 pack of some totally unsweetened carbonated beverages.

I got out the first can, opened it, took a swig, and came within a hairs breadth of spewing it out of my mouth. That was some of the most nasty tasting stuff I had ever had in my mouth! But, the can was opened, and I WAS very thirsty, and I really wanted to reduce my dependency on drinks being so sweet, so I forced myself to finish the can. It was still bad at the last swallow.

But I still had 11 cans. So I kept working my way through them for the next week. The second can was bad, but not as bad as the first one was. The third can was a little unpleasant, but not actually bad. The fourth can I felt pretty neutral about. By the fifth can, I was beginning to notice that there were some very interesting subtleties to the flavor without all that sweet getting in the way. And the sixth can, I actually LIKED. By the time I got to the last can in the 12 pack, I was in love with this new unsweetened drink and I couldn't imagine why on earth I had ever thought it tasted bad.

Drinking highly sweetened beverages doesn't just give you a temporary boost of sweet, but it affects the way your brain processes everything you eat or drink. Your mind becomes accustomed to these very high levels of sweetness and has a difficult time processing anything else, for a while.

Porn is a lot like that. Porn, especially modern internet porn, affects the way your brain works. Check out this TED talk for some interesting information about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU

Modern porn provides constant variety, a stimulus that changes every few minutes (or less). Note the study in the talk I linked above on how providing constantly changing new ewe's to a ram keeps his sexual interest spiking. Modern porn doesn't have to waste any time on buildup, people can fast forward right into the hottest part of the action. Most Internet porn doesn't slow down for personalities, or emotional closeness, but just dives directly into closeups of body parts grinding.

So once someone has gotten addicted to internet porn, they have taught their brain to EXPECT that kind of stimulation. Their mind associates arousal with an experience where the people and acts involved change constantly, where there is no time wasted on preliminaries, and the action jumps from peak to peak with hardly a moment to slow down between. Even the world is acknowledging that we are developing a serious problem because people who have trained their brains on internet porn are finding that they can no longer respond sexually with real human beings!

So, why is your recovering porn addict husband having a hard time responding when making love to you? In my admittedly uneducated opinion, It's because your most important sexual organ is your brain and he's trained his brain to respond to internet porn, not you.

This is not a reason to get discouraged, insulted, or give up hope. It's like me with that first can of unsweetened beverage. At the first taste my brain said: "What IS this? I was expecting sweet. And I don't mean just a hint of sweet, I'm expecting sweet to hit our tongue like a sugar coated sledge hammer. This, whatever it is, it isn't sweet. Not even a LITTLE sweet. What am I supposed to do with this? Huh? Go buy a can of Fresca man!"

I had to retrain my brain. And it took a little bit of time, but eventually my brain learned that drinking wasn't all about the sugar sledgehammer, and after a short while, it started really appreciating flavors in a way it hadn't been able to for a long time.

You can't retrain your husband by going back to the porn crutch. Totally understandable that you did, but its taking you in the wrong direction. You need to spend time refocusing his attention onto you. Retraining his erotic responses to recognize that YOU are the source of arousal and pleasure now. And it may take a while, but it will be SO worth it.

And when he has gotten his brain back to focusing on real sex with his real wife, he is going to look back on the porn with disgust and wonder how he ever got by on that shallow and crude stuff when there was such a wealth and true depth of erotic pleasure waiting for him right there in the marriage bed with his wife!

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby 2pack » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:39 am

All of this is true so long as he wants porn out of his life but if I remember correctly he doesn't see it as a big deal. I think your bigger problem is that actions speak louder than words and you just conveyed to him that all that anger and hurt you experienced wasn't really justified, and maybe porn isn't such a big deal. You'll need to go to him with your feelings​ and tell him why you did that and how much you hated it. He might be tempted to further include it in your life together.
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Paul B » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:25 pm

It's not the woman in the porn, it's how porn is packaged. If it had been you in that clip it would have gotten him going just the same.

When I was looking at porn in the late 60's and early 70's, there were plenty of women willing to get half naked for what centrefolds looked like back then. Because there were plenty of women willing, only the most beautiful got chosen.

HOWEVER, for full nudity, and especially for anything hardcore, there were very few women willing. This meant the pornographers had to take what they could get, and many of those women are a long way from beautiful. But the porn still sold, and it still got men [physically desirous]. Having a "beautiful" woman makes porn a bit nicer, but it's a minor thing. The power of porn is the focus on sexual body parts and sex acts.
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:46 pm

2pack wrote:I think your bigger problem is that actions speak louder than words and you just conveyed to him that all that anger and hurt you experienced wasn't really justified, and maybe porn isn't such a big deal. You'll need to go to him with your feelings​ and tell him why you did that and how much you hated it. He might be tempted to further include it in your life together.

I think this is very important and I had the same thoughts. I believe including confessing, repenting and seeking forgiveness is part of showing him that you are not okay with this and you recognized the sin in it and you are taking responsibility for it. And, you are being a very clear example to your husband on what walking out the gospel and following Christ looks like. This models to him, on how he should handle his own sin and stumbles.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Pallando » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:06 pm

10 months seems like a long time, but if his heart and mind aren't in it, it's probably not enough time to rewrite his brain.

A friend of mine recently came to terms with the fact that he didn't think marital sex was sexy. That realization changed everything for him, as he was then aware of a sinful heart attitude and he could begin to rely less and less on the forbidden or deviant for sexual pleasure.

If your DH isn't there yet, perhaps that's a starting point. Does he admit that his own lust for deviance is what is the source of his performance problems?

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby bigloop » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:23 pm

I can agree and second everything said so far. There are subtleties that will be different for every man, but in general, all that has been said should be considered and taken action upon.

BUT - there could be more.

Look not only at how you act in the bedroom, but look at how you act in the kitchen, living room, on the porch.... basically how do you relate to him otherwise. It has been my experience that my wife can have much more of a negative effect on me in the bedroom by things she does out of it than the things she does in it. For me, this has a lot to do with how I perceive her in the bedroom. My perception of her in general tends to drive my desire for her sexually. (Seems I've heard many women say about the same thing about their husbands... :wink: ) This refers to how you respond to him verbally when he talks about mundane things. Do you constantly override him? Do you second guess him? Do you complain more than offer adulation? Are you positive or negative towards him - things like that. Not just are you acting slutty around him.

With that in mind, your acting sexy outside the bedroom can be a good thing and will likely do as much or more than anything you do in it. What you did with the porn clip, not by intention we know, was to give a detoxing druggy a hit to get over the DT's. Simply put, don't do that again. I would apologize for it in short but sincere terms and then move on to the grander scheme. Nothing wrong with ramping up the sexy in the bedroom, but don't let that be the only place of action.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Dandelion_lawn » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:51 pm

I am constantly astonished at how very hard this whole porn thing has been on our marriage. I used to be pretty confident, happy, positive, and emotionally level. While I am seeing steady improvement and healing, I feel so broken and crazy sometimes. I feel like when we ml, that I need to have everything perfect so that he'll be interested. I feel like I'm competing with his past porn life, and like sex with me will be really boring after having great sex with me plus porn for all those years. When he touches my body, I have to fight the feeling that he's comparing me to all the others that he's enjoyed viewing and imagining himself with. So, of course, an erection failure feels like a bigger deal than it should.

While I've tried to keep things positive and loving with dh, and put most of my fears and negativity in my journal, or on this site, of course he knows a lot of what I'm going through. He knows that I view his lack of erection as lack of attraction to me. He says that's not true at all, but that knowing I'll feel that way puts more pressure on him, which makes it more likely to happen. I totally get that, which is one reason I tried the porn.

I do believe that my dh is attracted to me, and that he really loves me and is horrified by how he's hurt me. He's been patient and is doing all that he can to work through this with me. He has told me that he sometimes misses the excitement of porn, and that its just pictures and masturbation and that I put too much importance on masturbation. He says he was raised to think that porn and ogling women was normal and that all men fantasize about other women sometimes. He doesn't tell me that like a jerk, just while trying to explain to me his thinking on this vs mine.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby bigloop » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:13 pm

noticing the date of your marriage at you avatar and it occurs to me that you and your husband are likely somewhere close to me and my wife's age - mid-late 40's I'm guessing? IF that be the case, you should not discount the effect of age has on many of us men starting around that time. Physical irregularities are not that uncommon even for men with normal T levels of that age. Throw the kicking of the porn habit in there with that and it's no wonder things don't work as expected sometimes. It's likely as frustrating for him as it is you but he may not be willing to share that with you for fear of making you feel worse. All of that can cause anxiety and anxiety is an erection killer. Porn is often a preferred "anxiety drug."

It takes time. I disagree that 10 months is a long time. If he has been viewing and using for years, particularly if it started young, 10 months is just a good beginning. Most people who have seen the other side will tell you it takes 3-5 years to regain normalcy. I agree with that timeline. I didn't like the sound of that when I first heard it myself, but one of the most common causes of relapse is trying to hurry the process and "skip steps."
And you have your own recuperation to attend to as well. So don't rush it. Keep the faith, maintain the slow steady pace, expect a stumble or two, but don't quit. Encourage him the same.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby Dandelion_lawn » Tue May 30, 2017 4:34 pm

Not surprisingly, my dh is hoping to watch more porn with me. He says that although he loves me and finds our sex life extremely exciting and satisfying, there is nothing like the excitement of porn, that sex and other women are like crack to him(just an expression, he hasn't used crack). He says he totally can't understand the idea of sex and love being all together, to him they are completely seperate. Although he has had and enjoyed some video of us together, he misses the variety of seeing many other women. He still attends church, but says he doesn't really believe much of the bible. We used to have the odd glass or two of wine together, but he's been drinking a lot more in the past year increasing steadily.
Other than that, our marriage is incredibly good in all areas.
Of course I don't plan to watch porn with him, and he is still not using it either. I also realize that this is his issue to fix, not mine, but I would like to help him to retrain his brain.
https://thexycode.com/2017/05/01/every- ... x-lives-2/ This post about the two sex lives of every man totally makes sense here. Although my dh is incredibly happy with his sex life with me...he still has this well tended mental sex fantasy life. It's like he's trying to merge the two, he's just going about it wrong. I imagine he totally doesn't see why he can't continue to enjoy both lives seperately since he doesn't think they affect one another.
What do you suppose happens if a man just keeps both lives?
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby ItsJustUs » Tue May 30, 2017 6:57 pm

I can't answer your question other than to say it will destroy him and those who love him. From a secular point of view, I think that living a double life sexually will lead to frustration on his part and yours. He will never have with you what he fantasizes about and the fantasy sex life will never satisfy him. From a biblical view, you can't serve two masters and God doesn't like the double minded. By clinging to his mental sex life, at best a man will remain a spiritual infant. (Applies to a woman too). Of course it sounds like he has pretty much decided not to follow God.

I am struck by your comment that other than his drinking more you have a good marriage. I feel like you're selling yourself short here. "Except for his mental infidelity and his drinking, things are great." Optimism is a great quality to have, but putting a brave face on a terrible situation doesn't help in the long run.

I don't know how truthful he is about his happiness with your sex life, but that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the men here can help, but it seems to me that a man doesn't keep seeking out porn if he really is happy with his wife.

Praying for you and him.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby neilethere » Tue May 30, 2017 11:44 pm

ItsJustUs wrote:I don't know how truthful he is about his happiness with your sex life, but that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the men here can help, but it seems to me that a man doesn't keep seeking out porn if he really is happy with his wife.


Nup, easy to be happy and view porn.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby TJC » Wed May 31, 2017 9:18 am

It truly amazes me that this idea persists, that one's satisfaction with sex life with his wife, has anything to do with a man's use of porn. It seems no matter how many times, from how many different men they hear it from, wives cling to this idea. Sorry ladies, his porn use is not about you. It's all about him, and his relationship with God.
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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby SeekingChange » Wed May 31, 2017 9:58 am

TJC wrote:Sorry ladies, his porn use is not about you. It's all about him, and his relationship with God.

Amen. It's a sin thing.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby ItsJustUs » Wed May 31, 2017 11:01 am

TJC wrote:It truly amazes me that this idea persists, that one's satisfaction with sex life with his wife, has anything to do with a man's use of porn. It seems no matter how many times, from how many different men they hear it from, wives cling to this idea. Sorry ladies, his porn use is not about you. It's all about him, and his relationship with God.


Maybe because it's so foreign to me that a man can lust after a woman in porn and have it be completely separate from how he views his wife. I mean, I've heard from a lot of people that basically a wife should make sure her husband is getting steak in the bedroom so he doesn't go looking for hamburger other places. With that being told, how can a wife not see a connection between her husband's use of porn or ogling women in bikinis at the beach as anything but a commentary on his unhappiness with her body or sexual "services"?

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Re: I did something really stupid.

Postby sunny-dee » Wed May 31, 2017 11:26 am

TJC wrote:It truly amazes me that this idea persists, that one's satisfaction with sex life with his wife, has anything to do with a man's use of porn. It seems no matter how many times, from how many different men they hear it from, wives cling to this idea. Sorry ladies, his porn use is not about you. It's all about him, and his relationship with God.


Yeah, but that's like saying that a husband committing adultery isn't really about his wife; it's just a sin thing. I mean ... yes, that's true. But on the flip side, it's a sign of how little he values his relationship with his wife. There may be really good reasons for that; there may be no reason for it whatsoever (aside from pride and sin). But either way, it's a reflection on his relationship and perception of his wife.

I honestly think if my husband had truly loved me and valued me as a person and us as a unit, he wouldn't have been looking at porn. There is just no way, to my mind, that he would do that if we had a solid, loving relationship. That doesn't mean it's my fault or that I'm to blame or even that he hates me or wants out -- but it means that that is how he valued our relationship (not a lot), so it's about me.

This is a really binary decision -- it's me or porn. Every time he chooses porn, he is also choosing not me. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


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