Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Addiction, wrong expectations, habitual masturbation ...
Pallando
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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby Pallando » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:41 pm

I believe you have every right to end the marriage right here. Your ultimatum is just and reasonable.

However, this would be the end of possibly 95% of marriages. Porn is so addictive, easy and prevalent. Possibly one of the most nefarious aspects of porn is that it is so widespread that it leads to a diluted response.

Your husband feels your response is unwarranted. That is a sign of someone who doesn't understand the dangers of porn.

When I confessed my porn use to DW (then girlfriend), I was fully aware that she could break up with me and never deal with me again. When I confessed the second time, I was sure she would.

While I agree that your ultimatum might have been a key factor in his secretive behavior, if he truly understood the magnitude of his sin, he would own up to it even knowing the consequences.

I'm sorry if this is unhelpful to you. I'm not sure if I have any advice to give. But we hear you. This is a truly wretched position to be in.

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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby Pallando » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:43 pm

To follow up of doug-h's comment: there were times in my struggle with porn that I would search things intentionally, but would not click on any links. This was out of some sort of self-justification mindset where I thought I could limit my exposure to porn, but still take some sort of sick comfort knowing that it was there.

Probably not, but it could be possible that he searched their names and didn't watch any videos. People do strange things to justify their sin.

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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby Leah » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:50 pm

Does your husband want to remain married? Would he be open to meeting with your pastor?

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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby AgentCarter » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:49 pm

Hello, all.

Apologies for the tardiness. I needed a few days to set this aside and decompress a bit. The past few days have been excruciating for me.

Thank you for your responses. I will try to address everyone, or at least most thoughts shared. Pardon what will likely become sporadic.

Re: The "Zero Tolerance" policy, and some clarifications:

I never flat our told him that porn would automatically equal divorce, but that I consider it a very serious offense, that it would totally crush me, and that I would reserve the right to consider or follow through with divorce, dependent upon the circumstances and their severity. Porn use or a real, physical, affair are equally adulterous in my opinion, and therefore are Biblical grounds for divorce. I will never change my opinion on this and I will not turn an eye to sin, particularly when the Lord Himself took such a hard stance.

Many of you have pointed out that because of that "hardline" stance, he may be afraid to be honest with me. I understand that completely, but was hurt by the notion that I was *responsible* for his fear when the first replies were coming in; if he did this, it's his sin and fault, not mine. It doesn't matter what standards I set or what I said in the past since my view is Biblically sound and aligns with Jesus' teachings, and because he said that he understood my view and agreed with it/to my conditions before we married. It is NOT saying one thing and doing another to refuse to tolerate sin while being willing to forgive it. I never said that I would absolutely not forgive a mistake, and he knew that. His fear doesn't excuse any dishonesty, though I could understand any fear he has. In either case, since this has happened, I have told him repeatedly that IF he did it, I would be and am willing to deal with it and work through it together. He said that he understood and seemed to find relief in that.

It was very important to address the "zero tolerance" policy first because I feel that I unintentionally put too hard a line in my original post - I was deeply hurting when I typed that out, perhaps it could have been worded more thoroughly or explained better.

Next, I specifically want to address Cayenne, quoted to make sure that she sees this.
Cayenne wrote:It is fine for a wife to take a stand regarding what she will or will not do. I choose not to live in a house with porn.... that means he has to decide... I never spelled that out further for him, and only said it maybe twice the first day or so. I also made it clear from the beginning that I'd stand by as long as he was being honest, open and working towards recovery. One thing I refused to do was fight about it.


Cayenne, I wish I could hug you. Everything you wrote in your posts spoke straight to my heart, and I am in the same headspace as you were/have the same initial plan going forward as you did. I also read some of your other posts in other threads, one of which was, I believe, how you felt when you first learned of your husband's porn use. You talked about how your husband's character was described by a counselor as "gold," how he helped get rid of porn on church computers, how you trusted him completely, and how you would look into his face, the face you've seen hundreds of times, and still see the gentle man whom you never thought would hurt you, yet you hurt... Everything in that post was exactly how I feel. My seemingly upright, honorable, Godly man is still fiercely loved, but that bit of doubt is heavy in my spirit and the innocence of my love for him is, in a lot of ways, gone. I sent that whole post of yours to my husband last night while he was at work and just asked him to take it in. We haven't really talked about it yet, but I plan to and he acknowledged it, saying that it hurt him to read it and that he was sorry I felt that way. I am so glad for your advice and perspective. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Re: Having Each Other's Passwords:


Job29Man wrote:
THERE MUST BE NO SECRECY IN MARRIAGE. ZERO.ZILCH.NADA.PERIOD.


We agreed from the beginning of our engagement to not keep secrets. When we got engaged, we were living on opposite ends of the country and before I flew home after our engagement weekend, he gave me the numerical passcode to his phone AND put my fingerprint into the password scanning feature of it. He told me that I would always have access to his devices, accounts and anything else I wished, whenever I asked. I know his phone password (new phone) and credit card pin but never bothered with other passwords or accounts because I trusted him and had no reasons to doubt him. Immediately after this recent event, I mean the moment I found out, he offered to go through his history with me - even though that does not offer a definitive answer, the offer was appreciated. He has repeatedly said since this "porn scare" four days ago that I am always welcome to go through anything of his that isn't classified (He works in law enforcement. Most of his classified stuff is on work devices which stay at work, and which have porn filters). He has always told me that I am welcome to his information, but, again, I don't have some of it because I have never had a reason to doubt him and didn’t give it a second thought. The same is true of my passwords - he knows some of them but not all because he trusts me/it has never come up/he's never asked. He knows that he is welcome to them at any time, and there have been times when he has asked to see my computer/open internet tabs/history. I had no problems in obliging. I plan to ask for all of his passwords now, and will prepare a list for him of all of mine. Again, I was comfortable with our level of transparency until a few days ago. I felt that he was worthy of my trust and respect (and I don't mean to imply that those who automatically share their passwords are not).

Regarding his sex drive/stress/other factors to consider:

The Twit wrote:Unless the man has health issues, is homosexual, or has a porn problem I do not see how he would not be wanting physical contact with his wife.


Job29Man wrote: 1. Sexual refusal since the wedding


I posted a thread elsewhere (In the "Lack of Desire" board) this past August about his seemingly low drive and lack of interest, and ultimately attributed it to stress at work/busy schedules. We had talked about our lack of sex every 6-10 weeks or so - when it finally drove me to the point of insanity, about how I felt unwanted and didn't understand why he didn't "want" me. He has always held to the notion that that wasn't true, that he did want me, but that he was just tired/didn't mean to hurt me. He has worked at least 50 hours a week for years and since our marriage has worked 60-70 almost every week until about 3 weeks ago. Since then, he has had 2-3 days off a week due to detail and shift changes.

A few days ago, we worked out that he is more stressed than he realizes because he feels an intense duty to provide and worries about money, especially because I am not working (freelance work online at most, but I haven’t been able to find any steady job at all since moving here/marrying) and because he can’t seem to ever save enough to be comfortable with our financial “safety net.” As a young man, he lived out of his car for a time- he lost his job and was too proud to ask his fantastic, supportive Christian parents for help. I think he works so much because he knows what it means to go without and he doesn’t want me to experience that on his account. He’s very proud and very masculine in that way; he wants to be the white knight and he always has been for me (more below) which makes this all the more painful. We also concluded that because my work is infrequent, I have more time to sit and wonder about our sex life/want sex. That is logical to me, and it seemed to make him feel a lot better to reach that conclusion. I saw the stress leave his face as I was thinking it out loud, even. We have had this “money conversation” a number of times since our marriage, too, but I have reaffirmed to him that it is NOT his job to carry every burden and that I am fine with downsizing, moving, and eating rice and beans if we need to, so long as we are on good terms and he’ll take me to bed from time to time.

Also, In the past few weeks that he has had more time off, I have seen some very genuine glimpses of my sweet, sexy, interested man. There have been a few times during our marriage (after the aforementioned talks) when he promised to "try harder" to meet my sexual needs/said that he never intended to deny me, and now, for the first time, he seemingly is trying harder: Sex during the middle of the day on his days off, throwing me on the couch after a run to the grocery store instead of our standard at-night-when-everything-else-is-done sex, spontaneous hugs or kisses, and a generally softer, more tender, sweeter man. The man I fell in love with, honestly.

Since this "porn scare" 4 days ago, he has said repeatedly that he knows the evidence or lack thereof looks bad, that he wishes he had more of an explanation to give but that he won’t just say that he did it because doing so would be a lie, and that he understands why this is hard for me to just accept. He has made it a point to touch me more, to continue being affectionate (as he was gradually doing/working on improving before this "scare") and to really look me in the eyes when he holds me. We have always put our foreheads together and looked into each other's eyes deeply in the past, but particularly when we were dating and engaged. He's been doing it very intentionally now, while asking me to "hear" him as he does it.

He has been melting my heart in those moments, but the doubt and fear creep in later, particularly at night/after he falls asleep, and especially in the first few days after "discovery." Two days ago, he was being affectionate and I just coldly brushed him off, so he said he was going to go work on his car (in our parking lot) and I, annoyed, showered and left the house without saying anything. The area we live in is dangerous, particularly at night, so he called me as it was nearing dark a few hours later. I hung up on him three times before answering.

DH: "Where are you?"
Me: "Out."
DH "When are you coming home?"
Me: "I don't know."
DH: "Come home."
Me: "I can't even look at you right now."
DH: "Please, just come home."

I did. We talked. We had sex. It was odd for me because I am hurting very intensely, but it was also super hot and seemed so genuine on his part. He’s pulling out all the stops. I can’t decide if it is because he knows he’s guilty, or because he knows how serious my pain is, or both.

He is also making it a point to comfort me more in non-sexual ways. I had a turbulent childhood and am an Army veteran so I’ve seen more death and have more traumatic experiences than most. Sometimes I cry in my sleep as a coping mechanism without realizing it (it does not affect my waking life) and I sometimes wake up to him putting his arm around me, asking if I’m okay. If I am having a particularly bad episode, he holds me while I cry, strokes my hair and promises me that I am home with him and that it’s okay. Lately he’s just been reaching for me in that same way, whether I’ve been crying (I really haven’t been) or not. I don’t think he’s noticed that I’ve noticed him reaching for me.

This section got off into a tangent, but I think they’re all relevant points.

At this point, I still have no explanation for how the porn searches got onto his phone, but he did say that while he was in a training course last week, he left his phone at the lunch table with coworkers to use the restroom a time or two over the 5 day work week. It's a long, loooong shot, but I wouldn't put something like that past hyper-masculine, paramilitary type men who know that he is Christian/anti-porn and that his wife would find find it. I've seen similar things happen in the Army, where porn is normal and rampant among every barracks and soldier.

One last thought: I know we need outside help and have almost sought it a time or two before. I called my mother in law last night and told her every detail of what happened with this porn search thing, and how our sex life has been lacking but improving. I didn’t intend to tell her that much but she was incredibly understanding and supportive. She agrees with me that the situation is odd, but also pointed out that it is out of character for him to lie - his brother has said in the past (in other, more appropriate conversations) that he was never a “porn guy” or one to cover things like that up, too. She is a very strong Christian lady and a powerhouse of prayer and goodness - part of the reason I married my husband is because his whole family is so awesome, but particularly his mom (mine is deceased and my living family is not Christian). She is praying, she is thinking, and she is getting people to pray for us while being discreet and discerning about what to share. I felt so. much. better. after just venting to her and having her affirm my head space.

Thank you for reading. I know this was info-heavy. I will go back through tomorrow to address any ideas or posts I missed.

Paul B wrote:The bottom line is this is way, way beyond the couple resolving. Then need some third party help and they need it RIGHT NOW!


Paul, I have been trolling TMB for a few years (in appropriate ways) and am thankful to see your post/advice. I just want to thank you and Lori for this site. It has encouraged me in my faith and is now proving to be a lifesaver for me. God bless you both.
What now, Miss Carter?

Now, I go to work.

doug-h
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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby doug-h » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:11 pm

Thanks for the update AC.

Only a few things I have to say.

First, thanks for your service, and thanks for your husbands current service in Law Enforcement. You both sound like amazing individuals.

The other might seem a bit trite, but hang in there. You guys are going to get thru this.

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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby AgentCarter » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:23 pm

doug-h wrote:Thanks for the update AC.

Only a few things I have to say.

First, thanks for your service, and thanks for your husbands current service in Law Enforcement. You both sound like amazing individuals.

The other might seem a bit trite, but hang in there. You guys are going to get thru this.


Doug, thank you. I took your posts to heart as well and appreciate your advice.

Having a flag patch on my arm was one of the greatest privileges of my life I and I wouldn't trade my soldiering days for the world. DH loves what he does, too. We both feel purposed to that type of work - I would likely still be doing it if I didn't have an injury roll me out, and he'll do it as long as he can, too.

And no, you aren't trite. I find much encouragement here. Like I added at the bottom of my last post, I am so thankful for TMB and you lovely folks.
What now, Miss Carter?

Now, I go to work.

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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby Cayenne » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:04 am

Given your response now, I think I'd like to add a little to my opinion....

Since it sounds like your husband is generally of high character, morals, and honesty, it wouldn't be unreasonable to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point. Yes, it seems rather odd to find those things in his search, but google isn't infallible... denial and anger isn't 100% proof of anything.... and low drive can be caused by multiple factors.

I would be tempted to do this:

I would tell him that given he's always been an honest man, you are choosing to believe his denial of wrongdoing. Naturally, you will now be much more vigilant - but don't tell him that part. I would ask him if he'd be willing to let you install an app like covenant eyes for a time, just to alleviate your pain and help you heal faster. Since there is no concrete proof of porn use at this point, it could send the reports to you. If it does reveal dishonesty, I'd recommend finding someone else to take over receiving the reports. This would do two things.... if he's doing nothing wrong, you will feel SO much better. If his friends are using his phone, their web use will be tracked with times, so he can prove it's not him. (And if this is happening he'd better change that password). I'd track for somewhere over 90 days. If the app isn't an option, if he has an iPhone maybe he'd be willing to let you turn on the restrictions and keep that password to yourself. Just make sure you let him know this is simply for you and your emotions, not because you think he's lying.

The second part of my thoughts relates to sexual frequency. My preferred frequency is 4-5/week (we have kids and general insanity, or I'd be 1/day). My husband claims to have a 3-4/ week drive... this is close enough to work. However.... what he thinks he prefers and what really happens aren't the same things. When he's stressed it's more like 1-2/wk, and when really stressed, 1-2/month. That's too long. I begin feeling more vulnerable, disconnected and less desired if it's less than 2/wk. so.... my opinion would be to work with him on increasing that frequency to meet you somewhere in the middle... help him understand that the frequency isn't just about sex, it's about that emotional connection (people here can help him understand that too, if you need it). If your emotional connection is strong, you will be less likely to have things happen that cause the depth of pain you feel right now. I've found that even when my husband doesn't seem to be in the mood, there's things I can do to help him get in the mood. This can work in an hour, or can take a day or two, seriously. Sometimes I feel like I'm in some weird libido reversal in this marriage. Also keep an eye on times of day.... for my husband, sometimes first thing in the morning is better because the stress of the day hasn't hit yet. He's like 96% phlegmatic... so, yeah.

If your husband truly is innocent, he's got to feel really helpless and frustrated right now. If he is guilty, he's really bad at covering his tracks, and isn't likely a hard core user. Either way, I'm sure he hates seeing you hurting.


I'm confident that this is going to get better. :)
"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby AgentCarter » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:46 pm

Cayenne wrote:
My preferred frequency is 4-5/week (we have kids and general insanity, or I'd be 1/day). My husband claims to have a 3-4/ week drive... this is close enough to work. However.... what he thinks he prefers and what really happens aren't the same things. When he's stressed it's more like 1-2/wk, and when really stressed, 1-2/month. That's too long. I begin feeling more vulnerable, disconnected and less desired if it's less than 2/wk.


THIS. THIS. THIS. THIS. THANK YOU AGAIN.

When we were engaged and talked about frequency, we agreed to about 3 times a week, +/- 1. That's fine with me. That would keep me satisfied. In reality, it has historically been maybe 2-4 times a month, usually within a 10 or so day timeframe. He doesn't like period sex at all and prefers to wait until the day after it's over, and that's okay with me, but not ideal. He still doesn't believe that he wouldn't be able to tell at all after day 4-5, but that's neither here nor there. Point is, I have been chronically undersexed but never purposefully/blatantly refused/ told, "No."

When we have our every 1.5-2-ish months talk about sex, desire and frequency, I always make it clear to him that it is a full connection thing for me that without some love and some ::xx , I begin to get cranky and start feeling emotionally insecure. As I've said, he has always seemed to understand this, always apologizes when I explain, and has previously vowed numerous times to "try harder." And, again, he recently really has. I think he works too much, and we agreed over this past weekend of 3 days off that when he can put in for his yearly schedule of 40 or 50 hour weeks, he'll go to 40 regardless of what our finances look like, while possibly taking overtime from time to time, if available. This is a huge relief to me. When he's had a good night's sleep and time to drink a soda/play a video game, I see more of the man I know. It's not that he's purposely different or somehow cruel during the week, but 10 hour days are long, especially in law enforcement. He does a myriad of things on any given day, from biking 45 miles to chasing narcotics loads, to dealing with human trafficking.

Having said that,

Cayenne wrote:...It sounds like your husband is generally of high character, morals, and honesty...


He is literally Captain America to me and in a lot of ways, his entrance into my life has been an immeasurable blessing. Sometimes thinking about him makes me teary-eyed from joy. He is one of the greatest gifts I've ever gotten and I truly do think the world of him. He is my rock and the home I never really had. He pulls me out of my darkness and makes me laugh/enjoy life in ways that I haven't since I was a young child. It's also why this seeming porn thing hurts so much.

I called him tonight (he's at work but was able to talk at the time) because I was feeling insecure/thinking about how those search terms got there. I brought up how it makes no sense and how the unknown hurts me. He said something to the effect of, we've talked about it a lot and he can't say anything else to reassure me but that he will continue to keep doing so in person and in speech, and that I simply have the choice to believe him or not. He didn’t sound defensive so much as frustrated. I explained that I'm not on a witch hunt, but just hurting, and he said that he completely understands why this instance is so off-putting, but says that he is offended/hurt because I know his character and I know that he wouldn't do this to me. He's not exactly wrong in saying that, and I told him so/explained that he is a white knight to me, my best friend and my rock. He calmed down and seemed less frustrated after I said and repeated those sentiments. Verbatim, he said, "It just sucks because I've been working so hard to clean things up from before (our lacking sex life/my insecurity, which he has put a lot of work into recently) and now I have to clean this up, too, and I didn't even do it."

I brought up CovenantEyes/filters and made sure to tell him that I feel bad to some degree to ask (I really do), because he isn't a child and I don't want to micromanage him, and that if the roles were reversed, I would feel micromanaged and treated like a child. He said, again verbatim, "Well, it would make me feel micromanaged but if it will alleviate this and make you feel more secure, I am willing to do that, that's fine." I'm going to take another day or two to pray on it and will likely go through with getting a program for his phone. We ended on a calmer note than we started but his service cut out around then. I guess that's the progress report for today. Thank you, Cayenne (and everyone else).
What now, Miss Carter?

Now, I go to work.

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Re: Lack of Sex Since Beginning of Marriage - I think I found the Reason

Postby AgentCarter » Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:39 am

Hi, just an update.

I prayerfully chose to give him the benefit of the doubt about the porn. I choose to trust his character but, moreso, the Lord, who specifically told me that, "You don't have to trust him, but you should trust Me." I feel that it's a twofold issue of submission for me. Obviously I shouldn't submit to sin, but I should submit to my husband and, obviously, to God. We fought a looooot on our honeymoon - shortly after my last post - and have fought a lot since, but we also have been having sex a bit more often (particularly on the honeymoon, because we also had a really good time) and seem to be actually working through our issues now, instead of just not bringing things up and letting them boil over. We have fought like dogs for the past 2 months, honestly. It's been brutal and mean and excruciating at times. I threw my rings at him on two separate occasions. Name calling. Really low blows about each other's character, which are major insults to us both and hurt us both deeply. And I had prayed through all of it, begging the Lord to intervene, to convict us and guide us both, to help me bite my tongue and not attack back. And we just kept fighting, screaming, about things so stupid as a storage pulley system (and the subsequent broken $800 flat screen TV, oops) and seafood gumbo, but then one day it was like we got so tired of fighting that we just decided to hug instead of yell, and that's what we've been doing ever since.

Me: I literally can't do this anymore but we can't divorce and I don't want to seperate. Please, just stop.

DH: I can't do it either. I'm so tired... You are so annoying, woman.

Aaaaaaand, cue the sex. ::alarm

We still tiff and we still bump heads but for about 10 days now, any "triggering" to my admittedly silly pet peeves or his fierce independent streak are simply met with a little rise out of one or the other, a mumbling under our breath, a sadness is the other's eyes (harkening back to those terrible fights), and a genuine hug. If we have time, it turns into other, hotter things.

So that's where our marriage is right now. Thank God. For the first time since we got married, I think it might actually stay this way. I can deal with butting heads and letting go of some things/choosing my battles, especially if there's sex involved. (And I am finally having hot, regular sex!)
What now, Miss Carter?

Now, I go to work.


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