Page 1 of 1 and more...again

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:17 am
by 3kidzmum
I apologize up front for the length. I will try to cover our history quickly, but if you want to know more you can go read my other posts from a few years ago.

I was a widow with three young kids and married my husband after meeting him at church. My friends and spiritual mentors spent a lot of time with us and loved him, too. On our wedding night, I noticed he seemed sad when ML to me. We had three short days for our mini-honeymoon and he never initiated sex. Over the next few weeks, I quickly realized that he never initiated. I asked him about it and was told that he was uncomfortable with the kids in the house. Over the next few years, I found that I initiated 95% of all sex. I was also turned down most of the time. I would be very clear about my intentions. I would also tempt him all day, then tell him that I hoped he'd seduce me that night. He would either stay up playing video games most of the night or go outside and talk with his best friend on the phone for hours. When I would address this with him, he once claimed that his ex had turned him down so often that it shut him down. He said that he didn't like planned sex, only spontaneous sex and that when I expected it, it turned it off. Yet, he very very rarely initiated spontaneous sex. Another time he said he had many problems with sex in previous relationships and had learned to just not care about it. And, yet another time, he has said that he used sex as a way to "get back at" women after his divorce by sleeping with a lot of women and that he now felt a lot of guilt and didn't want to use me in the same way.

Almost a year after we married, I discovered messages between him and an ex-girlfriend. They never became sexual in nature, but were all about how they had lost each other and life would never be the same. How they would go on and try to live as best as they could without the love of their lives, etc. I was crushed. I felt like his consolation prize. He told me that it was all her. She had a horrible life. And, he just said all of those things to her to make her feel better about herself. Years went by. He would promise to stop saying things like that to her. He refused to cut contact because he didn't want to hurt her. He did promise to let me read all messages. And, he would often come to me and show me when she messaged him. Then he'd stop and I'd find more messages and confront him. The cycle would repeat a couple of times per year. He hasn't told me about any messages in well over a year and I haven't asked. You can imagine the kind of damage this did to me. Yet, I still decided to tread on and keep working on our marriage and sex life.

Early in our marriage I also discovered a ton of porn on his laptop, which he denied with a LOT of anger. That's what most of my previous posts were about. He gave up his laptop and stopped taking his phone into the bathroom with him. He has always resented that I believed it was him and not some virus. But, I could use the same laptop for hours upon hours with nothing inappropriate showing up in the history. Yet, leave for a bit and it would be there during the time he was home alone. It didn't take long for the phone to return to the bathroom, where he stays for long long intervals while he knew I was waiting to have sex. One night, I prayed that if he was viewing porn God would do something. He walked out shortly after and his phone had suddenly stopped working. It didn't take long and the filters that he had approved of on his phone were an inconvenience at work and blah blah. I've always suspected that he still uses porn. I have found ejaculate on the floor in the bathroom many times, which he says is saliva. But, when I have walked in there and say, "What is on the floor?" He hurriedly comes running saying that it's saliva and he'll clean it up. I know the odor. I'm not stupid. I also caught him M in the shower once, which he said was "cleaning himself" and it may have looked like M. Again...I'm not stupid. He runs up tons of itunes charges, saying they are charges that his games on his phone does in the background and he isn't aware when it happens. This has gone on for years with $300-500 per month in charges. He says he has deleted the games that do it, then they are there again the next month. He will say he is going through all of those apps and deleting them, only for the same to happen the next month. I have considered that this is porn, but I didn't think itunes had porn????? I have found searches in his history for "sexy girl games for iphone" and "iphone games for adults only."

During my pregnancy with our 3yo, he refused to have sex with me for fear of hurting her. I think it was during that time that everything pretty much changed me.

On top of all of this, the man that was so great with my kids before we married and showed me so much care, patience, and love disappeared the day he moved into our house. He brought his game system into our bedroom, drug a chair right in front of it, and that is where he lives. He literally comes home from work, showers, and sits down. On weekends, he sits. The kids are now teens and have no respect for him. They will tell you he is simply the guy that lives in the bedroom. They feel he has no say in their lives because he shows no interest in them. You can imagine how that plays out when he decides he needs to refuse their requests or enact consequences for something. He says no one wants him around, which has become the truth. But, in the beginning they were excited to have him in their lives. They met him at the door each day when he came home. They asked him to do things with them and take them places. But, no. He would half-heartedly return their hugs and turn down their requests to do things with them. This is the same with me. He is a loner. He refuses to ride in the same vehicle with his family. If we are all going somewhere, he will drive himself whether it is across town or if it is hours away. If someone asks to ride with him, he refuses. Why? Because he doesn't want to stop when they need to. He doesn't want to talk. He just wants to drive and listen to his own music. Truth is: I think he smokes and lies about it. I can smell it a mile away. He lies about a lot of things, but there's no need in calling him on it because he will just get mad at me and deny it.

I feel like a single mom. He is financially irresponsible/unaware. He doesn't do things around the house. He doesn't help with errands or running kids to events. He rarely attends their events. He does very little for our 3yo, and then gets resentful when she wants me. He shows no interest in me or my life. He doesn't go anywhere with me. If I ask him to come sit with me when everyone else is asleep, he stares at his phone while I chatter. Our conversations are just the necessities of living. I have asked him over and over through the years to ENGAGE! On the rare occasion that he does, the kids love it. And, yes, there have been times. It is just extremely rare.

A couple of years ago, I think it all just finally destroyed my sex drive. I have no interest. This has resulted in a lot of anger and resentment from him. He gripes that I am not interested in him anymore. Yet, he shows no interest in me. He still never comes to bed with me. He now goes to the gym most nights then stays out half the night in the driveway talking with his friend. If he does anything, it's grabbing at my boobs, which just makes me feel used. No hugs. No kisses. No interest in me as a person or our family most of the time. He stopped going to church with us a few years ago. He refuses to discuss it with me, but basically says that you don't have to go to church to be a Christian. This causes a lot of resentment in me because as the spiritual leader of our family, he has led us right to the point that two of my kids refuse to go to church because they shouldn't have to if he doesn't.

The kids have asked that he leave. He is a jerk that they avoid most of the time. They tell me that they have given up hope of having a father figure. My 12yo daughter is seeking inappropriate attention from boys. My 14yo will do anything to NOT be my husband's ideal of "masculine" to the point that I am concerned about him. I am actually okay most of the time. I have tried to focus on seeing him through God's eyes, responding how God would want me to, being the wife I should be. Yes, I reach out and try to be more sexual for him even though it almost makes me sick. But, overall, our home life is suffering.

So why this post? Well, about a week and a half ago, I found porn on a tablet that is synced with his phone so that his history shows up on the tablet. He has no idea that he set it up this way. Most of the time, it is deleted quickly and rarely shows anything. This particular day, he had been home alone while the rest of us were out for several hours. I didn't ask him about it because I knew he'd deny it. Then two nights ago, I walked in and caught him M in the shower. I just walked out. He has always denied M, ever. I checked his history and there was porn viewed just minutes before, so while he was on the toilet, which is closed off by itself. He hasn't spoken to me since, nor have I spoken to him. He doesn't know that I know about any porn other than that which he denied years ago. I checked his history last night and found searches for "music for when you're [ticked]." Ha! He's [ticked]!?!?!?!

I'm at a loss. He has refused counseling in the past. He WILL deny the porn. He will blame the M on my lack of interest in him, despite the fact that he hasn't tried to seduce me in months. He still expects ME to be the catalyst of sex in our marriage.

The only person I have ever told any of this is his mom. My mom passed years ago, and I don't share with my friends or sister because I have hidden who he is from others. The kids no longer hide it, though. His mom has been very loving. She sees how he is destroying our family. She has been a witness to a few of his tantrums. She knows he lies and that he is withdrawn. We have discussed that he seems to have a fear of loving someone and allowing them to love him. She has told me that she and my father in law will support any decisions I make. Of course, they would like to see healing, but they see spiral we are in. She encourages me that God can heal all, but she also supports that I must make some tough decisions about what is the lesser of two evils for our kids.

I just don't know what to do. I don't want my marriage to end. I don't want my 3yo to grow up without both of us in our home. I don't want my kids to see that you give up when things get hard. They already have a lot of self-esteem issues because they don't feel worthy of a father's love. At the same time, I don't see him changing and I see porn as adultery.

I don't know what I'm looking for. Prayers for sure. Advice??? I just don't know!

Re: and more...again

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:17 pm
by MayDayGirl
First, I'm sorry for your situation as well as the loss of your first husband. It sounds like unless your DH has a 'come to Jesus moment,' I'm not sure your marriage can survive. Personally, I think you need to consider the welfare of your children first. Can you and your kids get counseling from your pastor? Also, do you have close friends that you can turn to? and more...again

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:19 pm
by Pallando
I hate to say it... But repeated unrepentant sexual sin... this should lead to separation if not divorce.

You are not the one giving up. You are not the one leaving. He is the one who has already left, who has given up, who hasn't even fought for your marriage.

The fact that this is affecting your children should be the final straw. It's one thing for children to have no father figure, it's something completely else to have such a negative model of manhood. And every second you stay with this man reinforces that there is some acceptability to his actions.

I do not say this lightly to people, but if I personally knew you, I would say leave today.

He is more than just lying to you. He is gaslighting you. He is forcing you to live in a different reality where he isn't a lazy husband and father and isn't continually cheating on you in your own home.

As it is right now, he know that if he gets defensive and angry, you won't do anything. You caught him in the act and didn't confront him. This needs to change.

He thinks he has the power, but he doesn't. You do. Call his bluff. Leave. Like you said, you aren't stupid. He needs to know that he can't simply deny an accusation and it goes away. Make him face the truth.

I say this with full hope that the Spirit can intervene in his heart and bring about change in the face of absolute destruction of his soul. Staying with him is not the loving thing to do. It allows him to continue in this slavish existence with little consequences.

You can love and forgive him for what he's done and still leave him. This is not the easy way out. It is probably the hardest thing for you to do.

I hope I am not alone in this recommendation, and I am truly sorry. I'll be praying for you.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:05 pm
by Cayenne
I agree with every single thing Pallando said.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: and more...again

Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:16 pm
by Leah
You say you met at church. What does your pastor say?

Re: and more...again

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:05 am
by 3kidzmum
MayDayGirl wrote:First, I'm sorry for your situation as well as the loss of your first husband. It sounds like unless your DH has a 'come to Jesus moment,' I'm not sure your marriage can survive. Personally, I think you need to consider the welfare of your children first. Can you and your kids get counseling from your pastor? Also, do you have close friends that you can turn to?

A "come to Jesus moment" is what I've prayed for for years. It saddens me when I look back on my prayer journals through the years. It is all the same about our relationship and his relationship with the kids. Nothing has gotten better. His heart is prideful because I know God is faithful to help him be the man He calls my husband to be.

Pallando, your post actually pointed out a couple of things to me. You're right, as the kids have grown, I find myself making excuses for him in so many ways.

Leah wrote:You say you met at church. What does your pastor say?

We went through premarital counseling with our pastor. He never had any concerns. Though I'm sure he notices my husband's absence and I have counseled with him about my teens, I have not discussed any of this with him.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:29 am
by doug-h

I'm so sorry for all that you are enduring. That is a lot to endure, even for a little while.

I dont know if a separation, or counseling, or anything would help, but it might. The truth is he may have to hit bottom before he can begin to change.

I want to be clear here, I am not accusing you or blaming you for anything. Your husbands actions are his alone, and he is very wrong in his behavior.

Still, something must be behind it. You are describing a man who on the surface anyways, bears more than a little resemblance to me. Closed off to the world, angry, blaming others, etc. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Do you know of anything in his past, either involving you, or even before he met you that has possibly hurt him deeply. It might even be something that he hasn't even acknowledged to himself.

You both need help. It might be that he is not ready to get help for himself, so you need to look towards your own long term welfare, and that of your children. You can encourage him, but don't limit your own healing if he doesn't seek it out for himself.

Please go talk to your Pastor or another trusted person. TMB is a good safe place to open your heart, but it has limitations. You need someone to walk alongside you with this.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:16 am
by 3kidzmum
He says that his first wife cheated on him and aborted their baby without his knowledge of the pregnancy. I'll be honest, I have my doubts this is true. As I've known him longer, there are things in his story about this and more that just don't match up. Things he's told me that now just don't sit right. And, after being married to him, I can see why his ex had become the witch he describes her to be.

His parents agree that there's something in him that pushes people away. They say he's always shut out those that care the most. Before we married, he was great with the kids. But, when it came to really developing a relationship with them, he became a jerk. He expected them to initiate the relationship, quality time, conversations. Just like he does with me. Only thing, he typically denies your efforts. If he does participate, everything must go as he likes. We have to play the game he prefers or he won't play. We have to go where he wants or he won't go. We have to watch the movie he wants or he won't watch. He rarely does anything other than tell them to do something or gripe at them. When I have brought up that he doesn't do anything with anyone, he responds that they haven't asked or they don't like to do what he likes. Hello! You're the adult!!!! While he is better with our 3yo, it's still there to an extent. It's like he's afraid to let people get too close. He doesn't want to need anyone. And, deep down, I think he feels unworthy. I can't explain why, but that's the best description I have for him...that he feels unworthy. I have thought that porn may be the reason for this.

His parents are great. They will say that his dad was the typical dad that worked a lot. He wasn't always the most affectionate. He went to church, but didn't know how to be a spiritual leader. But, he was always there. At every game. Every event. And always involved. They butted heads a lot because my husband is the type that has to test every boundary several times. He has a rebellious prideful heart and knows it. He adores his parents now, as I do. But, he still keeps them at a distance. He visits weekly, by himself because he just walks out the door without asking if anyone would like to go. But they've told me that he stares at his phone while they talk. And if they try to give him any guidance, he gets mad and leaves.

He has one friend that seems to be a good guy. Yeah, he isn't perfect but is my husband's only friend with a family and he was just made a deacon in his church. They talk in the phone a lot!!!!! Otherwise, my husband refuses to get to know people in our church. He enjoys hanging out with his younger brother, who thankfully doesn't live close. They party. None of them have kids. This was a huge source of issues with his first wife. They lived in the same town and he often left his wife at home to go out with his brother and friends. Even his BF above has mentioned to me that he doesn't understand why my husband still likes this atmosphere. When we are at family events, he has always left me and the kids with his parents while he goes out with his brother or cousins.

He was this person from the beginning of our marriage. We're there glimpses into this before we married? I really don't think so. I've tried to look back and see if I missed some signs. I don't. So, he was this person starting almost the minute we left our wedding. But, I can say that it has been worse since our daughter was born. I've blamed that on the fact that this was also the point when all the parts of me that had begun to die added up. But, it just occurred to me that our daughter and I almost died in delivery. He actually spent about 20 minutes not knowing if we were going to live.

Anyway, deep down, yes he's angry and bitter about something and blames all failures on everyone else. I can't pinpoint what it is.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:22 am
by Leah
3kidzmum wrote:
Leah wrote:You say you met at church. What does your pastor say?

We went through premarital counseling with our pastor. He never had any concerns. Though I'm sure he notices my husband's absence and I have counseled with him about my teens, I have not discussed any of this with him.

This would be your next step. Have a chat with your pastor.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:24 pm
by 3kidzmum
I just returned from my inlaws' after dropping off our 3yo. My mother in law knows most of our history. I shared with her what has happened in the last couple of weeks. She encouraged me to tell him that I am ready for healing and that I am not giving up on our marriage, but that I love him and will stand by him through healing. All of that is true...if he chooses healing. I told her my plan is to tell him that I discovered the recent porn, and based on our continuous cycles of the past, that I am done talking and never pursuing healing. My plan is to walk the path of healing for the kids and I. My hope is that he will join us. It is time for heavy counseling for a long while. If he chooses to not go down this path with us, then HE is turning against his family.

She had told my father in law some things, but never the full extent of it all. He had also seen much of it in his son. She asked me to share with my father in law so that we could all be working together. I did. When I finished talking, he simply told me that if my husband refuses counseling, then I need to tell him to leave. He told me that the kids and I should not have to live the way we have been, and that he was somewhat aware of the atmosphere of our home. My mother in law didn't like the fact that it was clearly stated, but she knew deep down that this is what I am saying. "Choose healing, or you have already chosen to leave."

My hope is that we will talk tonight and he will be repentant and ready to move towards allowing the Lord to heal our complete family. I do not expect that from what I have seen. His internet searches from last night were still based on anger and fury. My hope and prayer is that this will be the wake up call he needs to allow God to grow him into the man he is called to be, and to allow us all to move forward as a family.

Please pray for all of us. Ultimately, I know he is God's child, falling into the pit of sin, and needing rescuing. He can be forgiven and restored. However, he has to reach for the life preserver. I, too, am a sinner. I have taught my children that the mental and emotional abuse is acceptable. I sin in other ways. The truth is, my husband is not my enemy. But, despite whatever reasons he is acting the way he is, he must be willing to draw the line in the sand and accept a different path...our family or his own demise. I refuse to let him drag us all down the path of demise with him.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:26 pm
by 3kidzmum
Leah wrote:This would be your next step. Have a chat with your pastor.

I just spoke with his parents who fully support me in my decision to confront him and ask for him to start attending counseling. If he refuses, then they understand and support my decision to move forward without him. I'm not moving toward divorce, but a separation may be in need in order to see what he is going to do after he cools off.

I will also be speaking with my pastor next week.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:57 pm
by doug-h
I may not be the right person to speak up, but I do think that you have a good outline for going forward. Yes, it is likely that your husband has some wounds that he is carrying around, but you do have to protect yourself and your children.

You didn't break him, and you can't fix him. If he is willing to seek help, which so far seems unlikely, then support him as much as you can, but insulate the rest of your family from further injury.

For now, know that you all are in my prayers.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:34 am
by 3kidzmum
I talked with him last night. He gave me the indignant huff and giggle at first and acted like he had no idea where the porn in his recent history came from. But, he did agree to go to counseling. He later admitted that he had been using porn for a few months, which he said he hates, but that he is in physical pain and needed release. Basically, that's the response I expected, if he would even admit to it at all...blame. Thing is, I'll fully admit that I have little interest in him at this point. However, I have NEVER refused his advances. He simply has not made any beyond occasionally grabbing my breast.

As for the rest of the conversation, he admitted that he has walls up and always has. He said that he likes doing things alone and I should just accept that I will do most things alone. He admitted to being selfish and a jerk most of the time. Yet, he said he doesn't need to be healed. He's okay. He says he's good with God. He doesn't think he needs to go to church because he says people just go and act fake and get their church box checked off their social card for the week. Basically, that some of that is just who he is and we shouldn't expect him to be otherwise. Most everything else, he blamed on others. While I see that most of our issues existed from the very beginning and have simply gotten worse with time, he feels that we made him the way he is. He feels that I keep score against him and that all of the things in the past should be forgotten. While I agree that we can't change the past and it should be forgiven, I feel that the damage it does still exists and without repentance and healing it is hard to just let it go. He did make some good points, and while I don't necessarily see things the way he does it was good to hear how he feels.

Overall, he said he wants the perfect marriage and family life, but he doesn't "believe" in counseling and said he has little hope that we can make it work. He did state that if we are going to do this, we both have to not just go and listen, but we have to be committed to do the work and he says he's willing to do that. And, he asked me to hold him accountable because he knows his tendency is to try for a couple of weeks and then settle back into his old patterns. Yet, in the next breath he would say that he is who he is and we just need to deal with it. As for his relationship with the kids, he still sees this as their responsibility. He basically says that if they can't be someone he enjoys being around, he shouldn't be expected to make the effort. He doesn't understand loving them through immaturity and growing. He expects them to act, think, and reason like mature adults, or he writes them off like he does other people. I'm not sure how to even address this, but I will be once we are in counseling. He says that the fact that I am considering the needs of the kids instead of the needs for our marriage irritates him. I agree that marriage should be the most important relationship in the family. But, when it becomes toxic to the kids, then other measures are needed.

I'm thankful that he agreed to counseling and has a desire to work with me. However, I am at a loss as to how to deal with how he sees some of his own faults, yet feels that everyone else should just have to deal with them.

Re: and more...again

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:05 am
by doug-h
I think you both have a lot of work to do. From some of his responses, I tend to think that he honestly believes that he has made advances, and either you did not understand them, or were turned off by them. Certainly, he could do a better job, but it might be helpful for you to watch for them more closely.

Something as minor as turning away from him in bed, or removing his hand from your breast, may be interpreted as a rebuff by him, when you didn't even know that he had made a sexual advance. I know that my mind works that way sometimes, and I have a tendency to look for offense. In my case, I am at least somewhat aware, and able to reframe my thoughts some of the time, BUT I am the first to admit that even with that understanding, sometimes it leaves me frustrated and staring at the ceiling. In the past, I would have had an immediate response to turn to porn.

I would not be surprised if there was a similar thing playing out with the two of you. It might be beneficial to reframe what an advance might consist of in your mind, and have a conversation about that with your husband. Some of your issues there may be misunderstanding each other.

Anyways, it is good that you talked. Im glad he agreed to counseling. I hope it leads to more in the future.