eileeninthebr wrote:This extremely long, well thought out list seems to only justify one's sinful pleasures...
If women were to refer to this list as a means to answer pornography questions involving their husbands, I am sure they would feel that they were to "shut up, and bear it, men are just men"
This list pretty much diminishes the need for any mate!
Thank you for your direct response. I especially appreciate that it comes without personal attack. And I appreciate the opportunity to clarify some things I may have left unclear in my original post ("12 Reasons Men View Porn")...
1. I was not seeking to "justify" men's visual sins. And I do not endorse pornography.
Perhaps this got obscured – esp. since this thread has had so many replies – but I was originally (in my long list you quoted) replying to another member’s question:
sunny82 wrote:Pardon me if this sounds like a silly question but I really want to understand....can anyone tell me the real reason that guys view porn?
Obviousely they are aroused by it but is there a deeper underlying reason why
So, I was mainly trying to add to her understanding of why men do such an offensive thing…then to turn it around to show how married women could use that understanding to encourage their husbands.
2. I oppose "objectification" of all sorts – whether treating women as merely sexual creatures (eye candy for men’s fantasies) or treating them as only marginally sexual creatures (e.g., seeing them as mere caregivers, mothers, housekeepers, etc.).
God made women beautiful. God also cautions us about the relative value of physical beauty (Prov. 31). He also protected women by providing “covenant,” under which terms alone a man should have unfettered access.
3. Recognizing that God has made something "good" (in our nature) is NOT an endorsement of a misuse of those good gifts.
God made many things good, which men have misused and even perverted. That does not change their essentially good nature. (For instance, the penis is good. The clitoris is good. But many misuse them. So it is with beauty and visual desire.)
4. Women should NOT just sit back and endure men's failings, but should also not retreat into a "do the opposite of glamour models” approach. This is reactionary and does not do honor to men as God made them (before sin entered the picture).
Merely tolerating that visual nature is not honorable, either. What IS very good is seeking to serve it…just as a man ought to seek to serve his wife’s need for comforting, teasing, progressive and climactic touch.
5. Female beauty should not be abstracted to some “impersonal” thing for men to “use” – but we should all understand that men are attracted even by “female shape” (be it a cartoon or those cheesy mud flaps). It’s like an “icon” for the real thing.
So, for instance, I can appreciate the curve of my wife’s elbow (as I do) AS a beautiful shape, yet I do not reduce her to it. In fact, in the middle of the night, while admiring it – when suddenly I hear the scream of our baby – I get up to change his diaper, recognizing that she, as a mother, needs rest, and I should not selfishlessly admire her beauty to the exclusion of other duties! Appreciating her as a holistic woman (and my own dear wife) must trump my fixation on her graceful elbow.
6. It remains true that “Whosoever looks on a woman (not his wife) to lust after her hath committed adultery in his heart.”
While there is debate over whether that means a man may never “appreciate” another woman’s (or cartoon figure’s ) beauty, it must remain strongly in our consciences that another man’s wife is not ours to desire. Jesus Christ expressed that in visual terms, and that seems significant.
7. I believe God made marriage not merely for procreation nor for sexual pleasure...but for companionship (see Jay Adams' good work on the subject).
A man will be unfulfilled and "alone" without a wife. (Of course God ordains exceptions, as the Apostle Paul makes clear.) Airbrushed pictures and mattress-holes will not suffice. Pity the man...
But God also gave us bodies...for touching (and tasting & smelling & hearing) & gazing. AND displaying! Unfortunately, most Christian books spend much time on the "touching," with barely a sentence here and there suggesting that women "leave the lights on occasionally" or "wear something revealing now and then."
8. Once we acknowledge that man’s nature is God-made, we can – rather than running from it – appeal to it properly. Wives don’t need to know every trick in the book to out-perform “loose women.” But they are unwise to try to ignore the nature of men, pretend it doesn’t exist, or despise it.
9. Finally, much as a woman wants to be touched, a man wants to look. When we ask why a man looks at porn, we are not seeking to justify it any more than asking why women let men (who are not their husbands) touch them.
For instance, recognizing that a woman felt emotionally supported by her counselor, and melted into his arms, does not justify her affair with him. Nor does recognizing a woman’s (lesser) retreat into “romance novels” to satiate her need (or fantasy).
In recognizing woman’s nature & needs, we simply understand why & how distortions, misuses & sins emerge. That neither justifies their sin…nor does it render their need (itself) sinful. Women need to be touched. They must seek a proper outlet (and God gives it to them – I Cor. 7). Similarly, men need to be blessed with female beauty. They too must seek a proper outlet. And God gives it to them.
Elsewhere, I have argued that men should spend hours reading, studying, and talking with their wives about her needs. AND practicing meeting them.
In my original post (after writing my long list of reasons men resort to porn), I argued that wives would be wise to do the same – practice meeting their husband’s visual need. To reluctantly appease…or to wear lingerie once or twice a year…or to assume that your husband’s visual needs are completely met by having sex every night is unwise.
Many women who mean well – even many who are extroverted initiators – miss this important point. Yes, a man will generally be flattered and thrilled when you pursue him. But you could pursue him 7 days a week, satisfying his orgasmic desire and his need for intimacy, yet leave him relatively un-touched visually.
This is man, as God created him. Enjoy it, as God intended.
God made woman beautiful on purpose. He made men visual on purpose. He made that work sexually with good reason. Work with it. Play with it. Play up to it!
P.S. And having the lights on (though a good step) is not enough.