Newlywed O Help

Can't orgasm, pain during intercourse, etc.
BronClay
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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby BronClay » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:58 am

I'm willing to work at it!

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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby convicted » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:02 am

Have you considered the idea that you watching her was in itself highly arousing for her and that heightened arousal helped facilitate her "ease" of achieving an O?

Your personal "insecurity" (not saying it's bad) tells me you wouldn't be as comfortable and therefore it would be hard for you to get your head around that voyeuristic bit as tripping her trigger.
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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby BronClay » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:12 am

txtwindad wrote: It is very common that a person, man or woman, can masturbate more efficiently than their spouse can bring them to orgasm.

I agree on the efficiency statement. Nothing is better than ML with my wife, and she loves to ML to me, as well. We BOTH prefer this over MB.

DW no longer has the desire to masturbate out of enjoyment--so our convictions are the same. It eventually got to the point (without me even saying anything) that when she would MB early on in our relationship before marriage (almost a year ago) that she would feel guilt and we would experience a separation of closeness. I would preach grace to her, but the convictions remain for both of us--as she doesn't like it when I MB, as well.

On the topic of inadequacy...it's not that I don't want to try, it's that I literally cannot reproduce what she does when she MB. If I could, I would do it over and over and over! It's not a matter of want, but can't...at least for now. I planning on practicing on her quite often! And she seems okay with that :wink:

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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby BronClay » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:14 am

convicted wrote:Have you considered the idea that you watching her was in itself highly arousing for her and that heightened arousal helped facilitate her "ease" of achieving an O?


I actually didn't ask her if it aroused her to have me watch. But I'm not sure if it did since she had her eyes closed. A good question to ask...but still...those insecurities remain.

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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby seeking perspective » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:35 am

BronClay wrote:On the topic of inadequacy...it's not that I don't want to try, it's that I literally cannot reproduce what she does when she MB. If I could, I would do it over and over and over! It's not a matter of want, but can't...at least for now. I planning on practicing on her quite often! And she seems okay with that :wink:


You could try a gradual change, with your wife self-stimulating while you become increasingly involved in what she is doing--kiss her, kiss/fondle her breasts, touch her inner thighs, add your hand to hers, take over briefly, etc. Gradually add your touch into her self-stimulation. This can help train her brain to associate the sexually pleasurable sensations with you and not just with her hand. Even after it is mostly you doing the work, she can be adding her own touch in now and then. Sexual intimacy includes sharing the giving and receiving of sexual pleasure, not just giving each other orgasms. It doesn't need to be either her or you providing the stimulation. Do it together.

I've been married 24 years, and while it usually takes my husband longer to get me there than it does me, it is far, far more satisfying when it is him rather than me providing the O.
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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby convicted » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:37 am

BronClay wrote:I actually didn't ask her if it aroused her to have me watch. But I'm not sure if it did since she had her eyes closed. A good question to ask...but still...those insecurities remain.

insecurities are normal. the thing is to get in front of them. If it is a turn on for her, how might that inform your perspective?
Lets take the stigma out of it for a second.

You like to cook for your bride and have settled on eggs being your thing. the problem is you continue to crisp the egg white edge and the yolk is just a little runny. it drives you nuts as your ideal is not crisp and the yolk just this side of firm. You apologize, she tells you they're fine, you plod on. Finally you have a run of perfect eggs, after about the 7th time she laments about the softer yolk & crisp edge. What?!? yep that was her thing. she loved your eggs before they were "perfect".

You have a pair of socks with a hole in the right foot big toe. Having her see you in them makes you uncomfortable and insecure, childish. then she reveals she finds it sexy in some way, she giggles and peeks cause she likes the visual, it is a turn on.

How might that new info inform your perspective? What might you do to retrain your insecurity?
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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby BronClay » Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:41 am

seeking perspective wrote:You could try a gradual change, with your wife self-stimulating while you become increasingly involved in what she is doing--


Not a bad idea...I like sharing!

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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby Txtwinmom » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:15 am

SeekingChange wrote:It sounds to me like you are both in agreement, so keep trying as you are. Don't write it in stone, and leave it open for discussion and tweaking later. If she's still not able to O in months or years she may want to look at diferent options.


I'm sorry, I just couldn't let this one go...months or years??? Why should someone even consider waiting months or years before trying to incorporate something (self stimulation in this case) into your lovemaking to help one of the spouses reach an O?
To the OP:
Let's not confuse self stimulation during love making with solo masturbation. I have been married for over 30 years and have never been able to reach O with PIV alone. I have always needed extra stimulation. Sometimes this has been provided by my DH, a vibe, me or a combination of all of the above. I understand your conviction about solo masturbation, that is your decision. But you need to be generous here and do what it takes to help your wife have a fulfilling sex life.
"Sex is not the answer, Sex is the question. "Yes" is the answer!". Swami X

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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby SeekingChange » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:29 am

My point was, right now she doesn't want to. That's her choice and they are in agreement. After her not being able to O after several months or years (if that's the case), she may be singing a different tune, and he needs to be willing to be open to that.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby BronClay » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:35 am

Txtwinmom wrote:I'm sorry, I just couldn't let this one go...months or years??? Why should someone even consider waiting months or years before trying to incorporate something (self stimulation in this case) into your lovemaking to help one of the spouses reach an O?

I wouldn't wait months or years...and I believe I have a good idea of the difference between solo and self-stimulation. I don't mean to sound defensive, but your post isn't really helpful...in tone or in instruction and it's definitely not encouraging. It's not only myself that has that conviction, it's BOTH of us. And we had those convictions before we talked about what our marriage bed would look like.

I'm open to suggestions, but there are things that we are not open to, as well. And that doesn't mean that I (or we) are wrong, it just means we do things differently. Keyword: WE. I would never forbid my wife not to do anything. I believe I'm being very generous in all of my attempts and actions, and DW would agree. I know that an O may not happen through PIV alone...and that's why I often stimulate her with MS or OS. Please read ALL of the posts before you reply.

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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby epithumetes » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:56 am

BronClay wrote:The problem is, the intensity at which she would MB...I cannot reproduce. She could make herself O in under 2 minutes...sometimes even a minute. I tried MS with my hand from the same angle and speed/intensity, but couldn't even last 30 seconds at that rate.

In fact, this is not a problem at all. The real problem is that she conditioned herself to O in under 2 minutes. That's very unhelpful in a married sex life and that has to change.

But this is the normal problem with MB. You train yourself to do it fast. But the 'good' way to MB is to train yourself to do it slow. In that way MB is a good training for real love play with a spouse.

So, I know MB is against your convictions. But please consider this. Your problem with MB does not have be the MB itself, but the way your DW (and you) did it until now. But if your DW would try to MB in a new, slow way, it could help both of you tremendously. Of course, it does not have to be solo. You can be present and join in.

In any case, get rid of the idea you have to provide the same kind of stimulation your DW provided herself with while MBing. Far from it!

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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby BronClay » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:05 pm

^^^ Interesting thought...we're still not set on MB being a training tool. Or used at all during our ML sessions. I'm not 100 percent opposed to it...but it's pretty high...like 97 percent.

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Re: Torn On Yes

Postby txtwindad » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:17 pm

BronClay wrote:
I don't mean to sound defensive, but your post isn't really helpful...in tone or in instruction and it's definitely not encouraging.

Please read ALL of the posts before you reply.


I assure you she did read all the posts before responding. Her response was directed toward the Seeking Change's suggestion about "months and years". Which is why she quoted it to make that clear. I hope you find what you are seeking.
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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby George B. » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:21 pm

BronClay wrote:^^^ Interesting thought...we're still not set on MB being a training tool. Or used at all during our ML sessions. I'm not 100 percent opposed to it...but it's pretty high...like 97 percent.


and that's fine. It may take a bit longer, but really not a lot longer. My wife and I went many years before we began to incorporate any kind of self-stimulation into our marriage bed. We learned all kinds of ways to stimulate one another and how to give each other great orgasms. Like others here, I encourage you and your wife to continue to examine your convictions (just like I would any Christian brother and sister) but I don't want to counsel you to go against your convictions, particularly if you have reached them through your conscience giving you "a check," as we say.
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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby poetess » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:35 pm

Before I married, I never really came to terms with what I believed about masturbating, and any half-hearted attempts I made never amounted to anything anyway. (And for the record, I was in my 40s when I married.) But then as I was preparing to marry, I came to grips with two things: (1) the Bible never forbids masturbation, never says anything about it at all and (2) virtually all men do it, and many or most single men actually need to do it at least sometimes. I figured if it is a biological need for at least some men, and not forbidden in Scripture, then it's pretty hard to see it as sin.

Frankly, I was at a disadvantage going into marriage not having learned to masturbate. That's because I never really learned my own body, and didn't have anything to tell my husband about what works and what doesn't. I also didn't have much help from hormones by the time I married. I love sex anyway, but I'd go back 10 or 15 years if I could, and learn to masturbate. My husband and I agreed when we married that he would not masturbate, that he would give me "the right of first refusal" and only masturbate if I was unavailable (if one of us was out of town for several days, for example). But we specifically did not apply that limit to me, partly because for a man, ejaculation can be limited--doing it solo might mean he isn't up to it for hours or even days. That isn't the case for most women; more sexual touch is better. Also, my learning my body is better for both of us.

My husband is also older; though he has been married before (widowed) and thus had sexual experience within marriage, he also has the benefit of knowing his own body. In our first few months of marriage, sometimes I would give him manual sex but not do it very well, or my hands would get tired. After a while I would put his hand on his penis, nonverbally telling him "You do it for a while." After 20 or 30 seconds I'd take over again. Sometimes I have to leave the bed for a little while (to get a wash cloth, for example), and once again, he can keep himself hard while I'm gone by self-stimulation, so I move his hand there, tell him, "I'll be right back" and go get what I need. Over time I've done this less and less, simply because I have gotten better at doing it myself.

Honestly, though, the definition of masturbation usually used on here is "self-stimulation to climax." Stroking oneself in the presence of one's spouse is not necessarily masturbation, nor does it have to be one-sided. I have never understood the concept of two people lying in bed masturbating next to each other, but both of you touching both of you is not even masturbation, it seems to me; it's simply sex. Women work differently. Don't stress about it, just learn each other's bodies, love each other, and appreciate whatever orgasms you get.

I may be wrong, but it sounds as though she agreed not to masturbate more because you were convinced it was wrong than because she was, and even now she is trying to follow your lead. So, before you forbid it, be careful and be sure you have biblical justification that it is actually sin. Because right now it seems you'd both be better off accepting that part of the two of you learning each other is letting her be included in touching her body as you learn how to do it better, just as my husband's ability to do so helped us and my inability hurt us.
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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby BronClay » Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:30 am

Thank you for your input, poetess. It's truly helpful insight. I have discovered over the last few days that some of my convictions were all based out of fear and insecurity. It's heartbreaking. I never knew I could be this insecure about not being able to please my wife.

I was sexually active before I surrendered my life to Jesus, and one of the hardest things for me to deal with is that my wife is the first woman that I've had trouble with giving an O.

We talked about A LOT of the past couple of days, and yesterday while ML, I asked her to self-stimulate. She asked if I would be bothered by it or intimated if she went at full speed. I said no and so she proceeded. Once again, she was able to O within less than 2 minutes. It was actually arousing and not as intimidating since we were together ML when it happened. But for some reason, I can't shake all of these stupid insecure questions that keep rising in my head...

Questions like "Does she actually want/need me there? Am I the source of her arousal when she's doing that? Does she still want me to try to give her an O since we can now ML and she can have one by self-stimulation?"

She said that I have an advantage in that when I do make her O, it is much more intense. However, it's so intense that I can't keep going and the O is much shorter than if she were to self-stimulate. So it's like...better orgasm or longer? While neither one of those is a BAD choice, it is a tough choice.

I don't want to be insecure. I hate the way my brain thinks about this stuff. I feel so guilty for wanting to be the one to give my wife an O every time. And she said she wishes it could be me, too. But realistically, right now that won't happen. And I need to face that. But it hurts. It really does. It hurts because of the insecurities and fears that rise up and say "You're not needed."

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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby George B. » Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:58 am

Thank you for your honest and humble post, BronClay. I think you're beginning to see breakthrough here. I remember a friend of mine who got married after having been sexually active and having repented. His new wife was the first woman with whom he had trouble having sex. They had several problems early on, which led him to a place of greater brokenness and humility and ended up resulting in an incredible marriage and marriage bed. Out of the place of insecurity, he learned more dependence on God and God's good gifts, including his new wife. It helped complete a transformation that had already begun.

As far as your wife's orgasm goes, I would say that you're not stuck with one or the other. I think she can learn to orgasm without self-stimulation, as she already has with you. And at times, self-stimulation can be part of your making love. This doesn't mean that you're less of a man at all, in any way. Eventually, if you are patient, you can learn to give one another incredible orgasms. In fact, as you grow in your years as a married couple, it will become easier as you get used to one another. Since you can't duplicate the speed or intensity with which she masturbates, then you're going to have to figure out other ways, but you'll get there. The number of ways that my wife reaches orgasm are myriad now, not just one. She used to masturbate one way but never does that anymore. She self-stimulates another way, has orgasms with me during intercourse another way, and I give her manual or oral orgasms other ways. You are a man, her husband, and God has given you good gifts. He would say to you: "Eat and drink your fill, O lovers." Enjoy all His gifts!
On sex: "Neither men nor women will be asked to throw away the weapon they have used victoriously. It is the beaten and the fugitives who throw away their swords. The conquerors sheathe theirs and retain them."-C.S. Lewis

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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby seeking perspective » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:46 am

BronClay wrote:She said that I have an advantage in that when I do make her O, it is much more intense. However, it's so intense that I can't keep going and the O is much shorter than if she were to self-stimulate. So it's like...better orgasm or longer? While neither one of those is a BAD choice, it is a tough choice.


Why do you think it is a tough choice? Has she indicated that it is, or are you making an assumption?

I don't want to be insecure. I hate the way my brain thinks about this stuff. I feel so guilty for wanting to be the one to give my wife an O every time. And she said she wishes it could be me, too. But realistically, right now that won't happen. And I need to face that. But it hurts. It really does. It hurts because of the insecurities and fears that rise up and say "You're not needed."


It is good to dig in to understand our own issues. Although orgasm is a big deal, it is not the only important aspect of sexual intimacy. When we are orgasm-focused and goal-oriented, we miss the journey--and the journey is part of what helps build intimacy in marriage. I can have an orgasm with or without my husband--but there is absolutely no comparison between a solo experience and an experience I share with my husband. His presence gives me an emotional connection and helps me feel more whole than what I can experience alone.

If he were completely unable to use any part of his body to stimulate me, I would still choose to lie in bed next to him. His very presence makes the sexual experience more profound and all-encompassing. If I am having an orgasm in his arms, that matters far more than whose hands are doing the work.

You're needed because you are part of the sexual intimacy that your wife needs in your marriage. Even if you aren't the one who pushes your wife over the edge to have an orgasm, if you have stimulated her at all for arousal, have told her how much you love her as she has touched you, have breathed heavily or vocalized, have simply held your wife in your arms while she stimulates herself to release, or have let her have a good look at your erection, you have been a key part of her sexual experience.

Try to think of the entire experience, not just the orgasm, as your shared sexual intimacy. Meanwhile, push memories of previous sexual experiences away. A married sexual relationship is about so much more than the orgasm, and comparison doesn't do anyone any good.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby BronClay » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:50 am

^^^ There's some great stuff above. Thank you. I try not to compare and allow my insecurities to live, but there's a major battle going on in my mind and for my heart right now. I wish I didn't think these things at all, but it seems as if I cannot stop them. I wish, more than anything, that I could.

I admitted to my wife last night that when I was single, or even when we were in a relationship, that my greatest insecurity was myself, and now it is the ability to please her. I don't meant to be goal-oriented. The way my brain is wired I really can't stand sometimes, but it's part of the rubble that God is helping me to sift through.

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Re: Newlywed O Help

Postby epithumetes » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:38 am

BornClay, I think you are showing some great self insight. In the long run, this will bring you far!

BronClay wrote:She asked if I would be bothered by it or intimated if she went at full speed. I said no and so she proceeded. Once again, she was able to O within less than 2 minutes.

I was wondering why your DW wanted to go full speed. You said you talked a lot, so I guess you also talked about my suggestion for her to slow down and learn how to reach an O at a lower speed. Am I correct? So, I was wondering, what are her thoughts on this?

Anyway, I would repeat my earlier advise. The fact that you cannot bring her to O easily probably has to do with her being conditioned to O quickly after fast and intense stimulation. She has to learn how to O after a slower, less intense, stimulation. This is learned easiest if she tries it herself first. When she herself knows how to do this, she can then teach you. Or even if she does not teach you anything, at least your stimulation will have more impact on her, because she has been reconditioned.

And the advantage is, an O like this builds slowly, and therefor might be much more intense! It's a like postponed gratification IYKWIM. Also, it's just more fun to have a longer ride to your destination, because the ride itself is worth just as much as the destination itself, as others have said already.


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