Unconsummated Marriage

Erectile disfunction, premature ejaculation, delayed orgasm, etc.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby gymaddict » Mon May 01, 2017 9:51 am

Your Quote: Even if I can’t perform IC, if I could just sexually pleasure her in some way, that would be a huge improvement.

Bro. In the same way that she is getting you off, you can do her manually with attention to all her erogenous zones (nipples, g-spot, clitoris, lips, kissing her lady parts, etc.) Make love to her body as if your life depended on it. You need to know this stuff anyway, so I would recommend you go at it in pleasuring her short of intecourse. In my opinion, you have perfomance anxiety and you must learn to relax and go with the flow of her arousal as you get aroused and continue to relax deeply.

I am sure that someone in this thread has stated this, but available to you to drive your wife wild is oral sex on her.

A must read for all of us men deficient in the fine art of oral sex for our wives is She Comes First by Ian Kerner Ph.D. Get it and put that book to use and your prayer to pleasure her in some way will be answered. Dont let squeamishness rule in this area of oral sex on both of you. Squeamishness seems to have stymied you and her alot.

Blessings.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby JD91 » Mon May 01, 2017 11:11 am

Well, I have been trying all that. I've read a lot about how to pleasure your wife, including how to start slow with massages and not just jump to genital touching. I'll definitely look up your book recommendation, though, because I guess I just need to keep trying to learn more. I'm pretty much out of ideas. I've tried everything that is supposed to "drive her wild" according to the books and it just has no effect.

I think there's a psychological barrier to her experiencing sexual pleasure. I think everything about me having this fetish and not being able to consummate is weighing on her to the point that she just can't get aroused no matter where or how I touch. The only time I saw her have an orgasm was on our wedding night, just from kissing, and that was before we knew we were going to have so many issues. So it makes sense to me that her main problem is psychological/emotional. If we had been able to consummate that night or within the first week, we probably wouldn't have this problem.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby Romantic Husband » Mon May 01, 2017 11:26 am

I'm glad you're seeing a professional. I agree with your suspicion that this is a psychological issue for you. I wish I could say I had an easy answer for you, but I don't. My suggestion is that you keep up the prayers, keep seeing the counselor, and keep being intimate with her every way you can. I agree with gymaddict's book suggestion. Don't give up, the reward is worth it in ways you can't imagine.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby tjw » Mon May 01, 2017 11:33 am

JD91 wrote:I’m feeling less and less masculine not being able to pleasure my wife, much less have IC.


This is a man's common response to sexual troubles. We all feel "less masculine" when our wives aren't "pleasured". But please, don't give this difficulty this kind of power in your life. There's another person who has to respond sexually in order to be pleasured. It doesn't seem like your wife is responding as one might expect. It has nothing to do with how "masculine" you are. Your wife never learned to pleasure herself. If she can't do it, then nobody in the world can. Nobody knows what brings her to orgasm better than HER. And, apparently, she doesn't know.

JD91 wrote:I keep wondering, aren’t there other guys out there with fetishes like mine? How are they able to have IC with their wives?


Yes, there are plenty of other guys with fetishes. And, many of them have successful IC with their wives. Personally, I don't believe your fetish has one thing to do with this, anymore. That would have been long gone by now, and you would have retrained your responses toward your wife, unless something is "blocking" that, interfering with the normal sexual learning process.

JD91 wrote:What is so different about my situation that after six months I still can’t give my wife the sexual life I owe her as her husband?


I wish I could answer that question for you, but I can't. A qualified professional sex therapist is required. I'm glad you're going to one. Something is clearly different, and I don't think it's your fetish.

Also, be careful about "owe". Yes, there are things that you and I, as christian husbands, "owe" to our wives. To be patient, longsuffering, understanding, helpful, protective, and willing to participate in sex with her to the degree and within the limitations we can. Those are the things we "owe", and they are things we can ALWAYS DELIVER regardless of circumstances.

For many of us, the sex equipment doesn't work so good or so reliably anymore. This is usually accompanied by older age and the disease processes which are common to many people. The basic truth is, we cannot always please others. It is a very bad thing to require that of ourselves, because it
makes us responsible for results which we CANNOT control.

JD91 wrote:I think there's a psychological barrier to her experiencing sexual pleasure.


I also wouldn't be quick to blame yourself or your fetish for this, either. There are many other contributing factors, which may include you, but those have to be worked out by her. At some point, it will be appropriate to bring her to your therapist as well. Follow your therapist's lead on this.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby SeekingChange » Mon May 01, 2017 12:06 pm

Is she working as hard on her own sexual plesure as you are? They say the biggest sex organ is the brain, and I believe that is especially true for women. Sometimes it's not about mechanics but the mind. If she could tap into her imagination and if she could allow for her thinking to get erotic and passionate, in a good and holy way, that could be what might get her body past that invisible barrier you all seem to be hitting with her.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby ledgemoor » Mon May 01, 2017 8:35 pm

Thanks for the update. I don't remember, has your testosterone been checked?
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby JD91 » Tue May 02, 2017 3:33 am

Yes, they did a whole bunch of blood tests and everything came back normal. Incidentally, my insurance keeps refusing to pay the $2,000 bill for those tests, so now I'm trying to get that sorted out. It seems like it should be covered since the tests were to diagnose a potential problem. And if they're really not covered, I think the doctor should have warned me that these blood tests would be costly and I'd possibly have to pay out of pocket. So that's been a big headache, but at least I've ruled out any physiological causes for ED.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby JD91 » Wed May 03, 2017 3:47 am

tjw wrote:Your wife never learned to pleasure herself. If she can't do it, then nobody in the world can. Nobody knows what brings her to orgasm better than HER. And, apparently, she doesn't know.


Right, exactly. She's tried to figure out how to pleasure herself, but without success. It would be so helpful if she could just tell me what to do and what feels good, but that's apparently not possible right now, and it's not her fault either. She's doing everything she can and really wants to make it work just as much as I do.

tjw wrote:Yes, there are plenty of other guys with fetishes. And, many of them have successful IC with their wives. Personally, I don't believe your fetish has one thing to do with this, anymore. That would have been long gone by now, and you would have retrained your responses toward your wife, unless something is "blocking" that, interfering with the normal sexual learning process.


I hadn't considered that maybe this isn't all because of my fetish. That's actually kind of a relieving thought, since I had been feeling so guilty about it. I have to say, though, the fetish desire is still as strong as ever. She's allowed me to satisfy it a little bit using soapy water with her in the shower. That's all she's comfortable with right now, as we're taking it one step at a time, but even that is extremely arousing for me. I probably desire to see her very messy just as much as a guy typically desires IC. I think the desire builds when it's "forbidden" as it sort of is now. Maybe once she's okay with fully participating in the fetish, it won't be as enticing as it is now and will become more of a "secondary" thing. And on the other hand hopefully once I've experienced normal IC, our desire for that will grow, since that's the way God designed it.

tjw wrote:Also, be careful about "owe". Yes, there are things that you and I, as christian husbands, "owe" to our wives. To be patient, longsuffering, understanding, helpful, protective, and willing to participate in sex with her to the degree and within the limitations we can. Those are the things we "owe", and they are things we can ALWAYS DELIVER regardless of circumstances.


This is true. We are both definitely doing everything we can to participate in sex with each other, and that's the best we can hope for.

SeekingChange wrote:Is she working as hard on her own sexual plesure as you are? They say the biggest sex organ is the brain, and I believe that is especially true for women. Sometimes it's not about mechanics but the mind. If she could tap into her imagination and if she could allow for her thinking to get erotic and passionate, in a good and holy way, that could be what might get her body past that invisible barrier you all seem to be hitting with her.


I've asked her there are some kinds of erotic and passionate thoughts she could tap into, like to meditate on whatever she was thinking about when we used to kiss before marriage, but she's just not been able to do this as much as she's tried. She had never experienced any sexual feelings before she met me at age 26. It's weird for a guy to imagine, but I guess it can work that way with women. Praise God that she didn't "awaken love" until the proper time! But now that it's the proper time, it's just a matter of re-awakening it.

One final note I hadn't mentioned is that I figured out how to have a sort of "IC" with her thighs. It's not particularly comfortable for her, but at least for me it's good to experience O while in a sex-like position and without her hands. We've only gotten that to work twice, but it's the closest thing I've experienced to actual IC. I only wish she could get pleasure too.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby ledgemoor » Wed May 03, 2017 7:43 am

JD91 wrote:Yes, they did a whole bunch of blood tests and everything came back normal.

Could you post your free and total testosterone, and estridiol numbers here? A common problem is that the tests come back in the normal range according to the lab reports, but are in fact low. Unless the doctor specializes in bioidentical HRT for men, they won't catch this. I agree that you have more going on than hormone problems, but may as well rule out the simple stuff.

Yeah, the tests are expensive. Be glad you aren't a woman, or they would be even more expensive. My first tests were $800, and DW was $1200. We have since been using mail-order labs and it is a lot cheaper. If you can't get insurance to settle up, you can negotiate with the lab on what you owe. They will usually accept a partial payment rather than risk getting nothing from you. I can advise further if you need to do that.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby JD91 » Wed May 03, 2017 10:19 am

ledgemoor wrote:Could you post your free and total testosterone, and estridiol numbers here? A common problem is that the tests come back in the normal range according to the lab reports, but are in fact low. Unless the doctor specializes in bioidentical HRT for men, they won't catch this. I agree that you have more going on than hormone problems, but may as well rule out the simple stuff.


I don't see anything called estridiol, but my T level came back as 636.4 ng/dl, and it says the normal range is 123–814. So according to that I'd be on the high end. Let me know if that sounds low from your experience.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby ledgemoor » Wed May 03, 2017 11:18 am

Ok, I'm not TMB's foremost expert on testosterone. Hopefully SquarePants or someone more knowledgeable will be along. I would say that 600 isn't horrible, but it looks lowish to me. Definitely not optimal. I keep myself at around 750 (which is considered conservative) and have been over 1300, and I'm nearly 60. I have a friend in his 50's who keeps his levels at around 1000.

I notice when I get low is that everything is seemingly coming along OK during foreplay, but when it comes time to enter, I lose my erection during the little time it takes to get into position.

Excess estrogen can prevent a guy from orgasming. If you have no fat accumulation around the breast area, you are probably OK, but given the difficulties you are having, it would be wise to check it out. DW is ordering our tests today in fact. We used to use discountedlabs.com, but these guys are cheaper. Ok, less expensive :-).
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You can do a lot of this stuff yourself -- order the tests yourself and discuss your levels with us guys here on TMB, and know more about it than most doctors. But given the difficulties you are having, it would be smart to consult with a doctor that specializes in male hormone issues. Finding one is easier said than done. I had a great doctor but he retired. The guy I am using now isn't that great, but is getting the job done seeing my problem is pretty simple. A lot of guys here are using Defy Medical and are very happy with them. Read some of the stuff in the low testosterone forum.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby JD91 » Wed May 03, 2017 11:31 am

Hm, well this is interesting. What can you do to raise your testosterone? Like when you say you keep yourself around 750, how do you control that?

I definitely don't have fat accumulation around the breast area. I've always been pretty thin. Right now I'm about 5'10", 150 lbs.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby ledgemoor » Wed May 03, 2017 12:12 pm

Weekly testosterone injections.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby Job29Man » Thu May 04, 2017 3:17 am

JD91 wrote:I guess I just have to keep avoiding the temptation to look at WAM stuff when she’s not home, which I’ve been pretty good about. We just have no idea how long it’s going to take, and now it seems like it’s mostly my problem rather than an issue with both of us.


With respect JD, it is important that you not be "pretty good" about not looking at WAM, but to really remove that as a problem you are going to have to extinguish that allure by being 100% flawless in not looking at it ever again. I think the thoughts need to leave your mind totally, and if you only cut back on WAM by 99% then that 1% is just enough to keep it alive in the back of your mind.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby JD91 » Mon May 15, 2017 10:22 am

Job29Man wrote:With respect JD, it is important that you not be "pretty good" about not looking at WAM, but to really remove that as a problem you are going to have to extinguish that allure by being 100% flawless in not looking at it ever again. I think the thoughts need to leave your mind totally, and if you only cut back on WAM by 99% then that 1% is just enough to keep it alive in the back of your mind.


Yes, I think you're absolutely right, and this has proven to be a lot more challenging than I had thought. Fortunately, we're about to make some major life transitions where I will no longer be working from home two days a week, which is when I'm tempted most. I'm taking a new job at a big company starting in June, and we purchased our first house this past weekend. She's leaving her teaching job after this school year, and will look for part-time jobs near where we'll be living, since with my new salary she won't need to work full-time. When we have kids, we want to homeschool them. So overall, I'll be alone at home much less often, if ever. I see this as an additional gift of God's sanctifying grace, in the midst of the huge blessings of a new job and house.

I had another session with my counselor, and I decided I need to find someone else. He has clinical degrees and licenses, but he hasn't given any advice at all except to simply pray and "imagine the face of Jesus smiling" on us in the bedroom. And I told him absolutely everything about our situation in detail, hoping to get some real advice and psychological help. This counseling center is a Christian ministry, and I think at this point we need to find an actual sex therapist or any medical professional who can help us beyond just encouraging us to pray about it. As time goes by, I'm realizing more and more how serious of an issue we seem to have.

I bought a penis ring recently, but I haven't been able to get enough of an erection with DW to try it—lately not even at the beginning.

I did have a thought recently about what may be playing into this issue for me. I realized I'm very afraid of having kids. I want them, but I have no confidence in myself to know what to do as a parent. I feel awkward around kids. DW on the other hand is fantastic with kids. She has taught kids of all ages, and babies are pretty much her favorite thing in the world. I think this is somewhat typical. Most men are nervous about having kids, but that's why God wired our wives the way he did. And I know I'll never be fully prepared for parenthood...it's just something that you have to learn as you go. And I'm sure I'll feel totally different about a child who is mine than I do about my friends' children.

Nonetheless, I think part of me is somewhat content in this stage of not having intercourse, because it means we can go on with our flexible lifestyles without the possibility of having a child just yet. Part of me fears having a normal sexual relationship, because even if we use contraception, we'll then be at the point where getting pregnant is actually possible. And any day at that point she could and would say she wants to start trying. And I would feel guilty if I were not willing to try, knowing how much she's always wanted to be a mother, and knowing that God's purpose for marriage is procreation. So as I think introspectively, I suspect that part of me is content in this sexless marriage state because abstinence is the best form of birth control.

I know that fear of pregnancy is not an uncommon barrier to sex. I certainly don't think this is the only issue in play, but it might be part of it. Additionally, I just don't experience hardly any arousal at the idea of having IC. And I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to, especially as a guy. That's why I lose erections as soon as we attempt penetration. It becomes all about the mechanics, and suddenly there's nothing sexually arousing about it at all.

At this point I don't really know what to do other than seeking a better clinical counselor and praying desperately every day for the strength to resist the temptations that come when I'm alone. It's kind of a vicious cycle right now because not having sex, the temptations are stronger. But until I overcome the temptations, I can't have sex. I've become tangled in a web woven by my own sexual sins. Even though a regenerate Christian should feel conviction rather than guilt, I really still feel tremendous guilt. I need to continue repenting and believing the gospel; that Christ has taken all the guilt on himself at the cross, and clothed me in his righteousness.

At least I'm hopeful about our new home and job situation, and thankful that God has not been willing to leave me in situations where I'm repeatedly tempted.

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby tjw » Mon May 15, 2017 12:02 pm

JD91 wrote:we need to find an actual sex therapist


Yes. It is unfortunate that often times, "christian" counselors are not very knowledgeable, other than in the bible. While it's wonderful that they have biblical knowledge, it is not sufficient to be a competent sex therapist. You need someone who specializes in sex therapy to get to the bottom of this.

JD91 wrote:Most men are nervous about having kids, but that's why God wired our wives the way he did.


Many years ago, I thought this same thing. While it's true that our wives are "wired" toward kids and family, it's not the best move we can make to have kids early in marriage. Looking back, I should have put 10 years instead of 10 months between marriage and fatherhood.

You two are having problems in your marriage. While I believe that these problems can be worked through and a good sexual marriage achieved by both of you, I implore you, please don't add kids to the mix until you have your marriage on solid footing. Get established in your career, become solid financially, save up goodly amounts of reserve funds, and have abundant and joyous sex with each other on a regular basis. Then, have your kids. IMO, at least 7 years from now. You two are both far too young for a family.

You both have sexual problems. Bringing a newborn into your home is going to stop any progress on this dead in its tracks for YEARS to come.

JD91 wrote: I would feel guilty if I were not willing to try, knowing how much she's always wanted to be a mother


satan is having a field day with you..... he is feeding you lies, and you are accepting them as truth. Yes, God promises a "way of escape" for us to avoid temptation. And, it is altogether good for us to avoid it whenever that is possible. However, I hope that you can become convinced that your past can be placed "under the blood" and can have no "hold" upon you. Yes, your wife may want kids immediately, but it is YOU who is the LEADER of this family and you need to exercise wisdom, especially on parenthood.

Not wanting to become a father yet is a VALID reason for "performance anxiety". It may be the PRIMARY reason why you lose your erection upon the beginning of PIV. You are a VERY YOUNG man, far TOO YOUNG to become a father. Inside, you know this. Please do not allow false guilt to cause you to make a train wreck out of your life. You have ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to feel guilty about being apprehensive about fatherhood at your age. It is entirely APPROPRIATE that you feel this way, if you were 35, and your wife "passing her flower", then I would be advising differently.

I don't think I am going to read that anyone here is telling you, at 19 years old, that you should "learn as you go". You sure won't hear that from me.

Getting some reliable contraception may help you solve your problem. Yes, I know that no method is 100% reliable other than abstinence, however, some get into the high 90s, and if you combine two methods...

JD91 wrote:I've become tangled in a web woven by my own sexual sins.


Well, you may be choosing that web. However, if you are "tangled", it is not by God, it is not by the Lord Jesus Christ, and it is not due to some external factor which is giving you just recompense. Besides, it's a non-truth....because even if you are "tangled", you can be "untangled" in a millisecond of time by God.

Please understand that God has made us in His image. God "speaks", and matter obeys. The Lord Jesus told us that we could "say to the mountain, be moved...." and that it would happen. Please do not speak things like this anymore. The Lord Jesus also told us that what "comes out of the man, it is that which defiles him....". Speak only truths about yourself, and the truth is, that you are NOT "tangled", and there is not any "web woven" by your past sexual sins.

There are countless, countless of us who have committed sexual sins, and have not lost any sexual abilities as a result. While I do not condone and do not encourage you to continue in your fetishistic behaviors, they are not the root cause of your ED. When you get a good diagnosis from a qualified professional, and follow his/her treatment plan, your fetishes will be cast by God "as far as the east is from the west".... just like the bible says.

JD91 wrote:I need to continue repenting and believing the gospel;


This is a half-truth, and one that does not serve you very well. If you BELIEVE the gospel, then you will not "continue" repenting. You will repent once, and leave it with God, and because of your belief, you will know that it is gone, and start to speak forth that it is.

I'm not one of these "name it and claim it" guys. I know that the gospel principles WORK, and it takes time and effort on our part to make it work. I am willing to accept our own responsibility and time for our efforts to prove fruitful. It's not magic, but it is God's promise....

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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby poetess » Mon May 15, 2017 12:55 pm

I'm going to disagree vehemently with tjw here. While I think the most important thing here is to figure out sexual love, I also think that coming to terms with parenthood being a blessed gift from God and a good part of marriage is important . . . and it's likely you won't get there fully until you actually experience the blessings (along with the sacrifices) of fatherhood. I'm not saying "Have children right away," but I'm saying it's the reluctance to be a father that is a bigger problem (biblically). No married man is "too young" to be a father, and you are not. Figuring out how to consummate a marriage successfully is not in itself a reason to prolong having children, though lessening the "risk" of pregnancy for a season may help you get there. But along with lessening the risk of pregnancy right at this moment, I'd work at telling yourself the truth that children are an honor and a blessing from God, and while nervousness is normal, nervousness is not "the final answer" on the question. You were probably nervous about other life milestones, such as starting a new school, learning to drive, leaving home, and getting married. Nerves aren't a good enough reason to avoid a good thing!

Oh, and the gospel has nothing to do with time and effort on our part. The gospel is totally and completely a gift of God's grace.
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby Romantic Husband » Mon May 15, 2017 1:24 pm

It appears that tjw is under the impression that JD91 is only 19 years old, but in his first post he indicates that he is 25. Knowing this, perhaps tjw's advice might be different?
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Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby JD91 » Mon May 15, 2017 1:26 pm

I think there's a bit of miscommunication here.

tjw wrote:I don't think I am going to read that anyone here is telling you, at 19 years old, that you should "learn as you go". You sure won't hear that from me.


You might be confusing me with a different poster, but I'm 25 and my wife is 27. So we're definitely not too young to be parents. But I agree with the principle that we should have a sexually healthy relationship before having kids. At this point, though, "trying or not trying" to have kids is a non-issue, since we simply haven't been able to come anywhere near completing the full conjugal act. I'm just considering some of my rather normal anxieties about parenthood and thinking that maybe they play into part of me feeling strangely content with not having intercourse. Even though another part of me does want to know what it's like; what God intended when he said "one flesh."

And by repeatedly repenting and believing the gospel, I'm not talking about the initial repentance and faith that was a means of my justification. I believe in God's full sovereignty over salvation, including the preservation of the saints, so it's not as though I could ever lose my salvation. I'm just talking about living a lifestyle of humility and trust in the finished work of Christ, confessing sins and relying on him, and choosing to believe the gospel every day rather than the lies of the world, flesh, and the devil.

poetess wrote:I'm not saying "Have children right away," but I'm saying it's the reluctance to be a father that is a bigger problem (biblically). No married man is "too young" to be a father, and you are not. Figuring out how to consummate a marriage successfully is not in itself a reason to prolong having children, though lessening the "risk" of pregnancy for a season may help you get there.


Right, that's what I meant about feeling somewhat guilty for my apprehensions about fatherhood. But I also know that those apprehensions are fairly normal, and I also know that once God does bless us with a baby, my whole perspective will change and it will be an incredible joy!

But right now, it's kind of impossible to have children before figuring out how to consummate the marriage, isn't it? At least apart from artificial insemination or adoption, which we're not considering.

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Gender: Male

Re: Unconsummated Marriage

Postby tjw » Tue May 16, 2017 3:16 am

I am confusing you with someone else. Sorry for that error. You're not "too young", but I still think your relationship with your wife has to take priority.
The fact still is, there is no good reason why you should feel guilty. Despite your chronological age, you have just gotten married. There is plenty of time ....

JD91 wrote:I also know that once God does bless us with a baby, my whole perspective will change


That is a complete antithesis to having ED because you don't want to conceive a child. If you truly believe that, then your ED has nothing to do with impending fatherhood. My guess is that you are trying to convince yourself.

I'm going to add one more statement. I tried to convince myself. It didn't work. Yes, I tried to be a good dad. Yes, I made the needed sacrifices. I don't regret that I did... because it was the right thing to do. But, even at 65, the "want to" never came. There's a big part of me that wishes I could go back to being 21 and prevent my involvement in it.

Please do yourself a big favor. Get a REAL therapist. Get this all sorted out in your own heart and your own mind. I am not unaware that the gospel is a gift, given by the grace of God. But, I stay with my statement, like the bible instructs us, to "work out" our own salvation. We have a part, and yes, it may take TIME.


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