Igniting Female Desire

What science can tell us about sex.
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landschooner
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Re: women and being desired

Postby landschooner » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:03 am

I've read articles that have studied desire and arousal etc, that "seem" to agree with that. They questioned why straight women would become aroused by looking at a sexy dancer up on stage(or something like that) Did they desire that woman sexually? NO. They were aroused by the the thought of BEING that woman (or being desired like that woman) who was BEING desired by the men looking at her.

Basically, the men watching the woman were aroused by her visually and WANTED her. The women watching her were aroused at the thought of being DESIRED just like her.

Guys definitely DO want to be desired, I certainly do, but at least for me, maybe half of that is not just to feel desired myself, but also kind of seeking evidence that my wife is interested in having sex. If she NEVER initiates, then its always her just doing it for me. Does she really ever WANT to or is she just putting up with me? (unfortunately the answer I received for most of my adult life has been the disappointing answer)

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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby bballs » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:33 pm

Let's take out Christian aspects of this topic for a second (sorry if this offends anyone). Let's talk about carnal desire. This desire is usually easy at the onset of a new relationships. There are many authors that discuss how intimacy kills eroticism. I think that "intimacy" is the wrong word here because itimacy is needed in a long-term relationship to get past the natural carnal desires that were so easy at the onset of a relationship than it is to realize these desires and take the risk to act upon them in a long-term marriage. I know a lot of this is already stated in this thread, but I want to digress a little into human physiology, and the culture we currently reside.

THIS IS MY OPINION ONLY
In a way, I think that some of what we are discussing has changed over time, and will continue to change. Whether you have been exposed to a lot of porn, or just a bunch of trashy sexually charged commercials on TV, our brain unconsciously battles reality and fantasy. I have long read medical journals and science trying to understand the "mystery" of female sexuality. It does dead-end at some points. But the mystery itself is sometimes needed for female eroticism to unleash. Some women want it to remain a mystery because if they try to figure it out, they may feel "dirty" or ruin its appeal. Because of culture and physiology, men are somewhat simple. And we are allowed to be simple and accepted to be simple at a very early age (ex. it's natural to like boobs, it's natural to have wet dreams, it's natural to have random erections, etc.). Most women, not so much. Years of culture at an early age is hard to break for all of us (men and women). If we all acted on our animalistic desires we would be "sluts." I will speak as if the wife is LD and the husband as HD since I am closer to this point of view.

Us men are aware of our sexuality because we were given this reasoning that we are allowed to discover it (even if in our heads) because men have this insatiable testosterone urge that can't control us. This is somewhat true to the immature male, but I can tell you from experience, that even with a testosterone level over 1000, it's not testosterone that always drives this. Inherent brain neurotransmitters in both males and females are different to a degree, and our learned behaviors can either add to this, or even take the inherent biology over (good or bad). My LD wife does not read anything related to self-help or sex on that matter, but one day she sent me the NY Times article on "wanting to want" and said this is how she feels. The thing is, at the time, it wasn't how she felt. And today, I realized that all my readings were trying to put all females into the same bucket. I think males to some degree can be put in the same bucket, but females can't. Upbringing and culture are a huge component! So is the fear of facing your own carnal desires.

Hormones do play a component. However, I believe they are only qualifiers. Adequate testosterone is needing by both sexes. More is not better. In a female, hormones such as estrogen and progesterone which fluctuate throughout the month is what separates females from men. If you are a man with HD, the same type of sex mentally probably stays constant. For women, it most of the time changes (even though Testosterone levels stay somewhat constant throughout a mentrual cycle). The iconic sexual female in history is desired by many many men. It's rooted in ultimate feminity and beauty (breasts and hips). This is estrogen in its best form, and increases dramatically during ovulation. You combine adequate testosterone leves and a whopping increase in estrogen (during ovulation) and you have a women that feels sexy and deep down wants to be desired by every man that sees her. The same men that can't control their own carnal desires. Lust in it's truest form. I will not digress into hormones and neurtransmitters for now, but hormones trigger neurotransmitters (like dopamine, oxytocin and prolaction) and neurotransmitters affect hormones.

Whether it be hormones, culture, upbringing, genetics, etc. - I believe one thing holds true in the case of a LD wife and a HD husband over the long-term. I will use my marriage as an example (a work in progress). Being "desired" is not enough. My wife always new I desired her because I constantly pestered and pressured her to have sex. In the early stages of our relationship, I brought her out of her Catholic shell and she masturbated for once and learned her body. I gave her her first orgasm. After introducing her to other new things, and then years of getting to know each other's personality on a deeper level, both of our ideals were not met emotionally. This is where fantasy comes in. This is where eroticism disappears. For my wife, desire from me meant nothing. It was one man that was trapped in a monogamous relationship and needed to use a live body to have an orgasm. My ego needed to be stoked so I always wanted her to have an orgasm also. I wanted more eroticism, but it was porn that fueled it. I assumed I had to lead her into eroticism because she still held on to Catholic guilt or that fear of "only sluts do that." This went on for years.

But let's get back to basics - carnal desire. The frequency of sexual thoughts might be gauged by testosterone, or in women by associated response through dopamine, but the carnal thoughts are there. In my wife's mind, she fantasized during sex on the theme of sexual confidence. A man (me) that's insatiable and constantly wanting to "try new things" looks to my wife like a man she can't satisfy. So why would I desire her unless she was just an object. Like others have said, in fantasy every thing is perfect. I think this is more important for women than men. Fantasy for my wife allowed her to explore some VERY erotic scenarios where multiple men desired her feminity and skills. This was an extension of what she didn't feel in real life. And I believe my situation is not alone on this (again taking out Christainity for this hypothesis). Eroticism in it's most private taboo fashion is hard to come to real in a typical female that has not been allowed to think that way her whole life. But thoughts or fantasies are secrets. My fantasies were about women that thought I was so good in bed they had to have it every night. So yes, we want to fantasize about what we don't have. The next thing you have is a female that finally wants to leap out of her head and "do it" in real life but can't imagine experiencing it with their husband. Or this could be both spouses feeling this way.

So in my wife's case, "wanting to want" was not magically going to happen (and it's not completely there yet today). I can look into my wife's eyes and say "I want you" in the most carnal way and it would never bring the arousal that a fantasy man would bring her (same can go for men). This is our carnal natural physiology. I know many of you - this is old news. I think my wife slowly learning that this is our natural human instincts is slowly merging with reality. Hot sex is not going to magically happen. She can't wait around to be horny like she was when we first met. That horniness, in her case, was not about sexual confidence and performance, but it was new (virgin) and I was new (desire for her over the hot cheerleader).

In sum I truly believe this carnal desire and uncertain eroticism lies in all females. And because of everything I listed above (at least in my wife's case) was "safer" and maybe even more "proper" to remain in her head forever. Or the perfect time. A time that will never exist. It points me to a study I once read that LD wives are more likely to have affairs than HD females. Eroticism and true vulnerability are much easier to be had with a stranger. Whether it's the husband or wife that is LD, it is the LD spouse's responsibility to at least find out what's holding back that carnal desire. It might be hard to find because after many years sexual thoughts might have been suppressed because it only resulted in sinful fantasies about others. There is a risk for the LD spouse to expose themselves. This is where mental arousal and physical arousal can meet. In this process in my life, I saw recently the sexual confidence of my wife come to light. I said, "tonight, don't care what I want or if I will like it or not....be selfish. Have it the way you want. Your own unique self." The sex wasn't anything fancy, but it was the biggest turnon I had ever seen. She was glowing. She felt "desired." Why was this desire different. Because she acted in a way that was erotic to her without caring what I thought. I thoroughly enjoyed and she could tell....the result was said by her, "I felt desired."

If you are a LD spouse, or a deadfish in bed, and can honestly say your erotic mind is exactly how you act in real life, I won't call you a liar. But if what I am saying is true, and these erotic thoughts are so deep and secret that you have trouble finding them (because you gave up years ago), then stop and think how to unleash it without giving a **** about how your spouse will respond to it. And remind yourself that you are a sexual being because you are human. And you do not have to define your sexuality by your HD spouses definition. Chances are, your uniquie eroticism will be the thrill your HD spouse needs (because an HD spouse will feel loved by you sharing that uniqueness). If it's truly something specific that your spouse is doing to keep you from unleashing what YOU want out of sex, then it's time to talk with them. Just remember that if you have been playing the "I am not into sex" card for 15 years to be humble in your discussion as it will be a shock to the HD spouse. I'll leave the hormone discussion for another time.

JUST OPINIONS OF MINE - AND STRICTLY SPEAKING ABOUT THE PRIMITIVE PART OF OUR BRAIN (NOT MORALS)

bballs
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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby bballs » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:55 am

As an addendum to my earlier LONG post about eroticism and carnal desire:

The topic of sex finally came up in our marital counseling last week. Since then, my wife seems to be "awakening"...I hope. We have had a lot of great sex since then.

In the session, the counselor asked my wife "what she wants out of sex?"....she paused for a long time because she didn't have an answer. She had never really though about it. She finally said "to make my husband happy." He said, "that's not for you, that's for him..." and he asked the question again. I believe this has really made her think hard. He wouldn't let her use the word "pressure." It was almost like he was giving her permission to want sex for the sake of her. He asked her if she wants to feel sexually attractive....or if she is worried about me not finding her attractive. She said no. Her homework assignment is to figure this out.

So this brings me to the theory of women wanting to feel "desired." I think the confusion (I know for me) is that this means telling our wives how "hot" they are, etc. But for my wife, feeling "desired" I believe means more about her sexual performance. Her ability to seduce me in her own way to the point I can't resist her. In the past, I never let her do this because it didn't need to be done...I always acted insatiable. She really has liked at times where she catches me off guard and literally does have to seduce me. It's about confidence. It's about being the ultimate in femininity that men can't resist her (in theory). This is how she feels "desired." In fantasy, we can create the person we don't think we are. We can face our anxieties and fears. In her case, her ability and confidence to be able to seduce me. So in many women's fantasies I can say it goes a step farther than feeling attractive to that feeling of being desired or ravished. It's the confidence to be sexual and men finding you irrisistable because of your ultimate feminine sexual power.

Prisc
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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby Prisc » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:36 pm

^^^Too true. My fantasies are defenitely geared around my ability to seduce and my husband unable to resist me. This is true power and that is the ultimate libido enhancer.

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melinda
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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby melinda » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:21 pm

Robbed Seahawk wrote:I think couples need to take a step back from one another and realize how much of what they pursue in marriage is really a quest for equilibrium, which in turn translates directly into sexual inertia. Relational security is good, but complete avoidance of risk, surprise, adventure kills relational vitality and life. The risk-averse person is almost always the low-desire partner. There's a reason for that.


Again I find that I am the exception that proves the rule. In my marriage outside the bedroom I am not risk averse, in fact I'm the one that wants to go to new places, see new things, eat new food, ect. DH is very content to go to the same places we've always gone and order the same thing every time. And it's not that I'm risk averse in the bedroom, but that most of what everyone considers "spice" I find not all that titillating. I am game for most anything DH wants to try, but that has nothing to do with my own desire to try those things. I am willing because it makes him happy. After all, the lingerie, candles, ect are all just window dressing.

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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby workerbee » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:24 pm

jokerman wrote: He describes couples where one partner may have pushed harder than the other to get married. Years later, the partner who pushed -- and is also typically the HD partner -- is wondering if the other spouse has ever truly wanted or desired them.

Exactly where I am. And it's a hard place to be. I am the HD wife and I pushed for the marriage. He is in every way the best man I've ever known. But the LD issue is hard to deal with and I believe it stems from my being the pursuer originally and now in the marriage bed. He is not a refuser but his lack of pursuit of me hurts immensely.

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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby Unfulfilled » Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:54 pm

That ^^^^ working theory does make sense. However in my situation it absolutely does not and has NOT worked AT ALL!

My wife didn't like sex early in marriage and 26 years later she still has no interest even after kids are plenty grown. And has no interest in me leading her either. In fact that makes it worse. Leaving her lead leaves the LD wife in control and results in LD frequency and all that goes with it as she is completely happy with low drive and low frequency. No win situation.
Last edited by Unfulfilled on Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

workerbee
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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby workerbee » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:41 am

I know this is an older thread but keep returning to it. I find so many enlightening posts. So much is in our attitude ABOUT desire. It's not enough to "act" correctly it's the heart behind our actions. The attitude translates to the spouse....at least I "think" it does.

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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby workerbee » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:04 am

Seekryt wrote:I don't think it's machismo or unpredictability, or even romance. It's the feeling, maybe, that you are the center of his desire.

On his shoulders? Well, I don't know. I would guess that depends on the relationship. Of course, I can't figure out how to make me feel like I'm being pursued if he doesn't do it, so maybe it is.

I can't speak to every woman's desire, but if we're talking "lover" as a title rather than "skillz possessed as", then maybe.


I think this really nailed it for me.

I know there is give and take in the marriage bed and both deserve to be desired. ...but in general it IS the man's role to peruse his wife. That ESTABLISHES the desire....that he chose me and is chosing me again.

If there is no pursuing it translates to lack of desire.

There are so many complicated dynamics involved in a marriage. Many of the men here report their wives do not persue them and I do not mean to diminish how bad that must feel for you. But I cannot help but feel it's harder for a wife that doesn't feel desired.

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Re: Igniting Female Desire

Postby Unfulfilled » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:10 am

^^^^ Define pursuit!

Would not pursuit include seeking to touch, big or otherwise be in any way showing his desire for her and also include seeking to make love to his wife? If yes, than why do so many of us husbands get our hand batted away like an annoying fly. With any or all of these attempts

I will go DAYS without a single touch from my wife. And if I go to hug her she is like a free most of the time.


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