Prostate Health

What science can tell us about sex.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby OldBear » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:17 pm

With age, the prostate experiences changes and challenges. In my case, it's enlarge and incontinence is an issue. Although I refused to believe my Dr, I've now learned that caffeine is off limits. By eliminating caffeine my bladder is less stimulated and incontience is virtually eliminated.

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Re: Prostate Health

Postby be64 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:31 pm

I don't envy any man's prostate issues. However, incontinence is not my problem, the opposite is my problem, getting going and emptying out. Also I often feel like I need to go all the time even when I don't really have a need. 5mg Cialis daily has helped me quite a bit with most of these symptoms. Sometimes I even forget I have any prostate issues.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Nvr2Late » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:16 am

be64 wrote:Polycythemia is the overproduction of red blood cells that is measured by an increase in hematocrit and hemoglobin.

Topical gels are said not to cause polycythemia as much as infrequent, larger injections of T Cypionate. Also, there's an easy and win-win remedy: donate blood on a regular basis. Like every month to 6 weeks. Helps you, helps the community.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby be64 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:31 am

If gels cause less increase in red blood cells, something I haven't heard before, a likely reason might be that it's almost impossible to get a high testosterone level with them. Injections on the other hand can easily give a high testosterone level.

Daily injections such as I do also do not cause testosterone spikes. However I still need to give blood. Something I do every eight weeks.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Nvr2Late » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:43 am

be64: I believe it could be an overstatement to say "almost impossible".

Have you ever read Dr. John Crisler's book? This site has quite a bit of information found in the book: http://defymedical.com/resources/health-articles/319-my-current-best-thoughts-on-how-to-administer-trt-for-men to give you a sample. You have to scroll down the page a bit to the section called TESTOSTERONE DELIVERY SYSTEMS.

As a doctor who has observed this condition in his patients, he has the results to back it up. I agree that it might be more difficult to achieve higher levels of Free T with transdermal gels than injectable, but there are also other variables to take into account.

That said, don't forget that my husband IS getting weekly injections of T cypionate. We keep studying and reading to stay on top of the most recent information so we can make better decisions for him.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby be64 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:00 am

If you go to Dr. Crisler's forum you will see that a large number of men who start on transdermal testosterone end up switching to injections due to the fact that many men just don't absorb testosterone well through the skin. Also, transdermals can also have the effect of increased estradiol conversion.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Guybrush » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:33 pm

be64 wrote:Guybrush's post feeds on the old saying "steroids kill". Testosterone has been given a bad rap. Testosterone is not a medicine or drug, it's a naturally occurring hormone that all humans have circulating within them. It seems a foolish notion to think that a youthful testosterone level is a health risk. The heart attack, stroke, and blood clot risk is due to not monitoring for elevated hematocrit and hemoglobin levels which thicken the blood, the treatment for which is to give blood regularly.

As far as prostate cancer, it's old men with low testosterone and high estradiol who have prostate cancer, not young men with high testosterone and low estradiol.

Speaking for myself, I've been on testosterone replacement for many years and have seen the benefits. I'm 51 years old and I'm lean and fit, low libido and ED are a thing of the past. I've begun learning taekwondo along with my 14 year old son. After working out with weights my entire adult life the taekwondo workouts I'm doing are by far the most intense workouts I've ever done and I'm keeping up with those less than half my age. I would never want to have low testosterone again.

If you think that testosterone is dangerous look at the list of potential side effects of any pharmaceutical drug and decide for yourself what you think is most dangerous.

Rather than put down my queries with anecdotal stories, which can't be labelled as hard fact, can we look at the science, rather than merely quoting personal experience? Surely this would be useful when offering advice about taking drugs? If you think we're not talking about taking drugs, then we may as well say that the likes of Lance Armstrong should still have some medals.

I simply stated that modern clinical evidence, whilst not strong enough to state definitively that older men on testosterone replacement therapy are at appreciably high risk of the side effects of testosterone therapy, what we do have does suggest that there may be some health issues.
I'm not sure how relevant an old saying about 'steroids kill' is to what I shared, other than the fact, and it is a fact, that anabolic steroids have been shown to have caused the early deaths of bodybuilders, personal trainers etc from heart disease. Guys as young as their 20's have died from coronary thrombosis - heart attacks.

I can also mention that to my knowledge, in any of the hospitals I've worked in since 1986, we have not used the 'treatment' of "regular blood transfusions" for fixing the problems of too much testosterone. We shouldn't need to bleed our circulation if a treatment isn't controlled properly! Otherwise we'd need to acknowledge that testosterone therapy should be closely monitored for everyone on it.

With due respect to your fitness be64, and being the same age as me you're clearly much fitter than me, but being lean and fit is no protection of our coronary blood vessels! You'd need a coronary angiogram to check out that your coronary arteries haven't furred up.

All I'd say is that taking any drug is a life choice that may have some negative health bearing later on. You pay your money and take your choice. Simples.

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Leanness + Exercise

Postby Job29Man » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:47 pm

A lot of this conversation is going over my head, but I'm thinking that body mass index (BMI) plays a role (especially from some of y'alls's comments).

The more I learn about this stuff the more I thank God for my wife who has adjusted our/my diet to a very healthy diet, and my BMI has been staying under 21. That plus lots of very vigorous exercise... and I'm not seeing (thank God) some of the problems I could see.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Snuggle Muffin » Sat Feb 27, 2016 5:54 am

My 2 cents about saw palmetto:

At 34 I told our family doctor that ED - diagnosed in a relative by another doctor as "not psychological" - runs in the family (with onset at 36-37!), and although I wasn't experiencing that yet was there anything I could do to fend it off?

He said: eat lots of leafy dark greens. But if you don't eat yer leafy greens, then take saw palmetto. He said he doesn't take saw palmetto because he eats his leafy greens.

I've been taking saw palmetto ever since.

Fwiw...

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Re: Prostate Health

Postby be64 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:15 am

This discussion on testosterone is off topic and out of respect for the OP I will not continue it here except to reply to this post. Perhaps the discussion could continue in a new thread.

Guybrush wrote:Rather than put down my queries with anecdotal stories, which can't be labelled as hard fact, can we look at the science, rather than merely quoting personal experience? Surely this would be useful when offering advice about taking drugs? If you think we're not talking about taking drugs, then we may as well say that the likes of Lance Armstrong should still have some medals.

Did Lance Armstrong use bio identical testosterone or a drug that mimics testosterone?
I simply stated that modern clinical evidence, whilst not strong enough to state definitively that older men on testosterone replacement therapy are at appreciably high risk of the side effects of testosterone therapy, what we do have does suggest that there may be some health issues.
I'm not sure how relevant an old saying about 'steroids kill' is to what I shared, other than the fact, and it is a fact, that anabolic steroids have been shown to have caused the early deaths of bodybuilders, personal trainers etc from heart disease. Guys as young as their 20's have died from coronary thrombosis - heart attacks.

Here you are talking about guys using drugs which mimic testosterone in doses as much as ten times that which would be used in TRT. Overdosing on any "drug" will likely result in unwanted outcomes.
I can also mention that to my knowledge, in any of the hospitals I've worked in since 1986, we have not used the 'treatment' of "regular blood transfusions" for fixing the problems of too much testosterone. We shouldn't need to bleed our circulation if a treatment isn't controlled properly! Otherwise we'd need to acknowledge that testosterone therapy should be closely monitored for everyone on it.

TRT patients do not use blood transfusion, but rather phlebotomy and the problem is not caused by too much testosterone but rather is merely a side effect of testosterone use. You are correct in saying that those on testosterone should be closely monitored. As I said earlier, most of the unwanted effects of testosterone use are due to doctors not properly monitoring their patients.
With due respect to your fitness be64, and being the same age as me you're clearly much fitter than me, but being lean and fit is no protection of our coronary blood vessels! You'd need a coronary angiogram to check out that your coronary arteries haven't furred up.

While I have not had a coronary angiogram, I have had a couple of echocardiograms, and there is nothing in my health history such as high cholesterol, high triglycerides, or in my family history which would indicate that I have risk for coronary artery disease.
All I'd say is that taking any drug is a life choice that may have some negative health bearing later on. You pay your money and take your choice. Simples.

It is interesting that drugs such as statin drugs are being pushed onto people who don't even need them, as a precaution even though they can have devastating effects on the patient, yet testosterone, which is totally natural and if properly monitored is totally safe and effective is viewed as a dangerous drug which should be taken off the market which again I believe is linked to the old "steroids kill" mentality.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby be64 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:29 am

Snuggle Muffin, how long have you been taking saw palmetto and have you noticed any effects from it?

I think I'm correct in saying that the mode of action of saw palmetto is that it acts like finasteride in reducing the conversion of testosterone into DHT. While this may have some beneficial effects on the prostate and on hair loss, low DHT is a major cause of ED and low libido. While a man is young and has lots of DHT perhaps these effects may not be noticible but as a man ages I believe saw palmetto may be a cause rather than a cure for ED. There is nothing in anything I have ever read that would suggest that saw palmetto does anything to ward off ED. In fact some of the literature suggests that impotence is a side effect of its use.

One of the major causes of ED is narrowing of the arteries that supply the penis. If there is a family history of ED at a young age I would look into whether or not there was a family history of coronary artery disease or diabetes.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Crown of Iron » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:32 am

For me, I've been taking saw palmetto since the fall of '92; I'd been diagnosed and suffering from BPH since the young age of 22-23, where the urologist said I had the prostate of a 55 year old man. Now, at 55, I have the prostate of a 30 year old man. On Wednesday of last week, I ran out of saw palmetto, and then finasteride on Thursday. Before Friday, I noticed significant loss of flow, and a much weaker stream. Since I couldn't get to the Rx until Saturday, I picked up an inexpensive bottle of saw palmetto on Friday, and started popping capsules by the fistful, which made my stream much stronger. Now that I'm back on my regular regimen, the stream is a little weak; maybe I need to up the saw palmetto a bit.

Regarding ED and saw palmetto, I'm not quite sure. But it does improve the intensity of your O's, and if I remember right, the erections did seem harder and sensations more intense. Hope this is helpful.

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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Snuggle Muffin » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:51 am

be64 wrote:Snuggle Muffin, how long have you been taking saw palmetto and have you noticed any effects from it?

I think I'm correct in saying that the mode of action of saw palmetto is that it acts like finasteride in reducing the conversion of testosterone into DHT. While this may have some beneficial effects on the prostate and on hair loss, low DHT is a major cause of ED and low libido. While a man is young and has lots of DHT perhaps these effects may not be noticible but as a man ages I believe saw palmetto may be a cause rather than a cure for ED. There is nothing in anything I have ever read that would suggest that saw palmetto does anything to ward off ED. In fact some of the literature suggests that impotence is a side effect of its use.

One of the major causes of ED is narrowing of the arteries that supply the penis. If there is a family history of ED at a young age I would look into whether or not there was a family history of coronary artery disease or diabetes.

Hey thanks for that reply! Also, it made me realize I'd remembered wrong. That doctor's words about saw palmetto were directly in response to a question about *decreased urine flow*, not ED.

I misremembered because the ED question *was* discussed in the same doctor visit, but I don't think he had any concrete recommendation for me specifically in response to that (since I was only asking about a potential problem), other than to repeat about daw palmetto and general health maintenance. At least all I took away from the discussion was that I need saw palmetto.

I honestly don't know if urine flow concerns were legit or just in my head; I definitely wasn't experiencing what the doctor described as prostate related urine flow issues.

I've been taking some form of saw palmetto capsules since that conversation, at the end of 2012 (then age 33). Currently Super Prostate Extra Strength One Per Day from Webber Naturals (320mg, plus 480mg pumpkin oil and some other stuff).

Everything still works, more or less, but not quite like when I was 23. Maybe that's just how aging is. Or maybe there's a magic supplement out there that will make me wake up hard every day again! ;)

I never considered that the saw palmetto could be detrimental!

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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Snuggle Muffin » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:04 am

Crown of Iron, what's your normal saw palmetto dosage, like in mg?

Has anyone heard of saw palmetto dangers, other than what's already been mentioned? I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to try and double my intake for a months, just to see what happens.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby be64 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:18 am

Snuggle Muffin,

I can't say of this is a cause and effect, but this is the order in which things have occurred with me. In my thirties I started having urine flow issues. By my late thirties my doctor had recommended taking saw palmetto. I took it for years. In my early forties I started having ED. I had a hard time getting an erection and would sometimes lose my erection during intercourse. I also began having a hard time reaching orgasm. Sometimes it was nearly impossible to climax. Sex became a take it or leave it event. In my mid forties I started having breast/nipple pain which was traced to high estradiol. I took the drug Arimidex to lower my estradiol. At this same time it was discovered that my free testosterone level was low. I started testosterone replacement. I started having hard nighttime and morning erections. I don't remember when they stopped, but it had been so long since I had them that I had forgotten they ever happened. My ED went away, penis sensitivity increased and orgasms again became easy and explosive. Libido is through the roof, I simply can't get enough sex even though we are having it every other day. At 51 I'm having the best sex of my life.

I can't say that saw palmetto had anything to do with the course of events, but I now know that saw palmetto can lower DHT. A certain level of DHT is needed in order to have good libido and erections. Testosterone can convert to DHT or estradiol. If the conversion to DHT is blocked then there is more testosterone available to be converted to estradiol. High estradiol causes loss of nighttime and morning erections and breast/nipple pain in men. For men DHT is esentially the sex hormone and estradiol is the anti sex hormone.

I don't know with certainty that saw palmetto caused my problems, but I believe it is likely what triggered the cascade of events in my sexual health. I still use saw palmetto, but now due to the testosterone replacement I know I have high DHT and it wouldn't hurt to lower it somewhat.

What I am trying to get across is that saw palmetto has hormonal effects and should not be used without knowing your hormonal status both before taking it and during its use.

While it has been said here that saw palmetto makes orgasms more intense, I have not read any such reports any place else nor is it a listed side effect. The mode of action of saw palmetto would tend to have the opposite effect. A certain level of estradiol is also needed to have good sexual function. Perhaps if a man had low estradiol then taking saw palmetto may increase it and give a libido boost.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Nvr2Late » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:25 pm

be64 wrote:If you go to Dr. Crisler's forum you will see that a large number of men who start on transdermal testosterone end up switching to injections due to the fact that many men just don't absorb testosterone well through the skin. Also, transdermals can also have the effect of increased estradiol conversion.


Hey, great news! That's the beauty of being able to evolve with practical experience. I'm glad Dr Crisler is continuing to learn from his patients. Once a book is written, it's done and not usually updated. Thanks very much for letting me know, and we will definitely have to check out his forum. I knew of it, but haven't had time to really peruse it.
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Re: Leanness + Exercise

Postby Nvr2Late » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:30 pm

Job29Man wrote:A lot of this conversation is going over my head, but I'm thinking that body mass index (BMI) plays a role (especially from some of y'alls's comments).
Sorry for my part in the rabbit trail, Job.

The more I learn about this stuff the more I thank God for my wife who has adjusted our/my diet to a very healthy diet, and my BMI has been staying under 21. That plus lots of very vigorous exercise... and I'm not seeing (thank God) some of the problems I could see.


No doubt about it. Estrogen is stored in fatty tissue, especially belly fat. That you are so diligent about your level of fitness should help you enormously.
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby be64 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:40 pm

Nvr2Late wrote: Hey, great news! That's the beauty of being able to evolve with practical experience. I'm glad Dr Crisler is continuing to learn from his patients. Once a book is written, it's done and not usually updated. Thanks very much for letting me know, and we will definitely have to check out his forum. I knew of it, but haven't had time to really peruse it.


I believe that Dr. Crisler still promotes transdermal testosterone. It is the men on the forum that don't like them. I think the reason he promotes transdermal is to have daily dosing however since he started promoting sq injections I think he has leaned more in that direction because of the ease of administration.

His forum can be accessed at allthingsmale.com
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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Crown of Iron » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:24 pm

Snuggle Muffin wrote:Crown of Iron, what's your normal saw palmetto dosage, like in mg?

Has anyone heard of saw palmetto dangers, other than what's already been mentioned? I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to try and double my intake for a months, just to see what happens.


Sorry for the delay (been busy rewiring house), but I just started an experiment with upping my dosage to six (6) tablets a day, along with the finasteride. As mentioned before, I've been on Saw Palmetto for about 23 years, and so, it needs to be upped every now and then. Lets see: Each tablet contains 48 mg of Calcium, 7.5 mg of Zinc, 35 mg of Selenium, 500 mg of Saw Palmetto Berry Powder, 80 mg of Pumpkin Seed Meal Powder, and 1 mg of Lycopene.

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Re: Prostate Health

Postby Elevation » Thu Mar 31, 2016 5:24 am

*BUMP*

Any new insights?


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