HPV Vaccine Marketing

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InGodsGrace
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby InGodsGrace » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:36 am

poetess wrote:I'm not anti-vaccine, but it seems to me that if parents are so confident in the vaccines, they should be confident in them even if their kids are around unvaccinated children--or children who have the disease against which they are vaccinated.

Tell that to cancer patients, people with auto immune disorders, and babies who can't get vaccinated.

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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby padsnd » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:16 am

Agreed. There is a place for vaccines that require herd immunity, but that still does not negate the patent vs. public health issues. One cannot logically explain how a company can be granted a privileged monopoly for an item that the same government says is vital to public health.
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby poetess » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:57 am

Yes, I get why cancer patients et al want people around them to be healthy . . . but that has nothing to do with whether government has the legal or moral authority to require vaccines "for your own good" or, um, not even your own good but somebody else's. I'm not anti-vaccine, but I think many are oversold (e.g., the flu shot) and their risks played down, and it's hard to make a case that most "required" vaccines should in fact be required. The one under question should clearly not be. You don't get the disease by being in the same room with an infected person.
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby The Twit » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:20 am

How odd this topic came up last night as my wife an I were going to sleep. She had to pick up something at a church that is where a homeschool group we belong to is going to meet over the next 6-7 months. This church offers many things during each week and yesterday was free lawyer who day. DW started talking with one of the lawyers who is an acquaintance in homeschooling. This lawyer and my wife was talking about my daughter and her health problems. Side not we have chosen not to give our children the HPV vaccine for many reasons. This lawyer said that her law partner has many cases pending right now involving young women and families who have had the HPV vaccine and developed very serious complications. So the first thought from the lawyer was our daughter developed her medical issues from getting the HPV vaccine. As I noted she had not gotten the vaccine. But my wife and I found it interesting from the discussion that some, not all of the symptoms my daughter has are being seen in those who have had the vaccine and that there are lawyers prepping for large lawsuits that could lead to class action lawsuit.

Another thing that came up in our discussion was that our children's Doctor told my wife that yes the primary way to pass on the HPV is sexually but even kissing is a high risk. Odd way to scare people into doing something that is not really needed when you teach your kids right and wrong and stress monogamy with only one person totally in your whole life. We also stress do not go out with someone unless they will ultimately become a spouce. Neither my wife or I believe in "playing the field" or exclusive dating unless it is your intended spouce. No making out, no anything unless you are engaged and ready to be married. Same thing with the person you plan on marrying.

As for the "herd" concept. I am highly offended in calling human beings "herds". Also if you surround yourself and your family with like minded people to for a tribe and guess what? Your clan/tribe will not have certain diseases affect you unless someone in the tribe wonders off and violates the rules of the tribe. So if everyone in our tribe is of the same mindset and we teach our kids the same thing and on top of that when we look around we see that 90% + of us lived the way we want our children to live and look at our parents and grandparents and we all see the same attitudes then no, this vaccine is not needed. I look at those who have grown up and are starting to get married and we are seeing them carry on with the same monogamous relationships and same attitude of the saving all forms of intimacy with the person they marry. So the modeling is there.

This then leads to a discussion of is this another item developed in order to promote the guilt free sin attitude we have in our western society? The attitude that discourages any form of guilt associated with any form of sin. Such as the concept of bringing shame on oneself or family. Such as not willing to accept the consequences of premarital sex such as pregnancy. Or even the consequences of contracting a disease after performing sexual act forbidden by God - think of the primary way of getting AIDS. We have a whole industry trying to rid us of our consciences. I see out side of the church and unfortunately I see it creeping into the church and church community all under the guise of acceptance.


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Re: RE: Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby seeking perspective » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:25 am

The Twit wrote:Another thing that came up in our discussion was that our children's Doctor told my wife that yes the primary way to pass on the HPV is sexually but even kissing is a high risk.

I've never seen anything saying that kissing is a high risk, but kissing can transmit HPV. I don't know if it is the same variation that causes vaginal and penile cancer, however.
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby Unfulfilled » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:06 am

^^^

You do not need to advertise when the government FORCES every single child or adult to get the chemical injected into your body and you have zero choice what "they" deem should go into YOUR body or the body of your child!

As far as HPV. Can people who have this virus be treated for it? In other words go on offense to test and cure the people who have it. Rather than defense by giving a vaccine to those who might possible someday in the future come in contact with a person who has it and has sexual contact with them.
Last edited by Unfulfilled on Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby Job29Man » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:09 am

Let's keep this discussion close to the OP topic please. The topic was "guilt & shame marketing." Discussion of the rightness or wrongness of vaccines, and even mandatory vaccine laws begin to trail away from the topic.
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby happilymarriedkate » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:16 pm

This is a a big frustration of mine. Have you heard the whooping cough vaccine commercial appealing to grandparents? "Your newborn grand baby can get this..." the other one that gets me is the flu vaccine. Our grocery store pharmacies in the area are advertising that if you get the flu shot there they will donate a free meal to a food bank. The manipulation is ridiculous.
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby neilethere » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:10 am

For what it is worth my seventy year old mother is still suffering the after effects of a nasty bout of whooping cough - the hundred day cough with interest - and still avoids kids knowing well that she would rather die than pass it on to an unvaccinated baby.

I havent seen the ads but i dont understand why people have a problem with the flu vaccine.

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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby MayDayGirl » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:02 am

neilethere wrote:I havent seen the ads but i dont understand why people have a problem with the flu vaccine.

Because Americans don't like the government telling us what to do or what's good for us. And conservative Christians like it even less.

Surprisingly, our emigration rates are quite low. :lol:

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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby happilymarriedkate » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:39 pm

I have no problem with advertisement stating facts- but manipulating grandparents to tell their grown children to vaccinate their babies? Or appealing to our hearts by offering free food to the poor? Why don't you educate us and then we can make an informed decision?

And of course- there are sad but true stories about the effects of these diseases in people who are not vaccinated. There are also sad but true stories about those who did become vaccinated. We could share those for days.

Again this is about the marketing...
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby poetess » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:09 pm

I havent seen the ads but i dont understand why people have a problem with the flu vaccine.


It may seem a little off subject here but . . . each year the government guesses which strains of flu might be around this year and makes that year's vaccine based on those guesses. When they guess wrong (like they did last year) they don't tell people "Don't bother to get it this year, since it won't do any good." I know people who insist they only get the flu the years they get the shot; for those people it's worse than useless. For me it is simply useless, since I don't get the flu even if I don't get the shot. Basically, they play up the usefulness of the vaccine and play down the reality that vaccines have very serious side effects in a portion of the population. It simply isn't true that everyone should get a flu shot (or any other kind of shot). If you're at a high risk of a certain disease, and you think the benefits of the shot outweigh the risk of the shots, then get the shot. If you don't, then don't. For me personally, unless you're a person for whom the flu is likely to be life-threatening or you're a caregiver for someone in that category, the costs and the risks of the shot outweigh the benefits. Different people will have different risk factors; some are more susceptible to the flu than others, or might be harder hit by it. So, what I resent is the pretending that it is a worthwhile vaccine for everyone and also that it's "just a flu shot" as though it's no more serious than a Band-Aid. And not being open about it the years they guess wrong as to which strains to vaccinate. If they were more open about the reality of a cost/benefit analysis being necessary for the flu shot, then I'd be more likely to believe then about other preventive care. But I think it's wiser to see it as medical care and discuss it with a doctor than to believe either the advertisements or the government hype. The flu shot is a handy example of "why" one should do their own research and talk to their own doctor and not just believe everything they hear about a certain type of treatment.
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby MyWifesMan » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:36 pm

Kate: I have no problem with advertisement stating facts- but manipulating grandparents to tell their grown children to vaccinate their babies? Or appealing to our hearts by offering free food to the poor? Why don't you educate us and then we can make an informed decision?


We all have to remember that these drugs are heavily marketed to produce the best bottom line on every Big Pharma's quarterly reports. It is hugely profit-driven. Early in my communications career, I worked for quite a few pharmacists and learned a lot about the industry. It is enormously competitive and the quest for the newest money maker is tremendous! I also quickly learned that doctors mostly know about new drugs what they learn from the manufacturers' literature. Pharmacists know far more about drugs, their effects, their interactions, than doctors do. But once Big Pharma cranks up the marketing machine, it is driven by the desire to position such drugs to make the maximum profit, and doctors and pharmacists are the middle men. Lines get crossed in advertising. I am not a conspiracy follower, and I do realize the enormous good modern drugs have made to our health. But I am also hyper aware of the excesses such companies can go to in trying to market their wares. Think about any drug that can be positioned as a coming of age "safety net" - you just can't imagine what such a new drug's profits would mean. Viagra floated a whole lot of corporate boats (and other things :D ), and the financial impact truly was gigantic! So, such companies, while touting their ethics, can sometimes skirt the edge or go over it, in the desperate chase for dollars and quarterly dividends. And the pressure in all such companies to impact the bottom line is intense. Always beware the marketing message of potentially dangerous things!

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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby blondie » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:17 pm

Funny this came up. Last night a mother talked about a letter from the school that her daughter had to hand to her. It was virtually saying your daughter needs the HPV vaccine as she might catch cervical cancer if she has sex. She is twelve years old and the mother comes from a culture where they do not sleep around before marriage. Her daughter shares that culture. She has declined the vaccination but was a bit angry at the wording of the letter suggesting "when her daughter has sex"
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby Job29Man » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:35 pm

poetess wrote:But I think it's wiser to see it as medical care and discuss it with a doctor than to believe either the advertisements or the government hype.

We do this but also we don't believe everything our doctor says if we determine that he is solidly in line with the AMA and Big Pharma. Most physicians we have known do not have a healthy, strong skepticism of Big Pharma nor the AMA, AHA, etc
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby poetess » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:37 pm

Job, I agree to take the doctor's advice under counsel, too. For one thing, many doctors jump to medication as the very first answer to something.

Thing is, in my forty-some years I have seen multiple times when medical reality is twisted to make a point.

A friend who died of the side effects of chemotherapy was considered to be a cancer survivor who died of heart disease. (Well, um . . . not exactly.)

A non-smoking friend who died young was listed as a smoker on his final medical records because he died of a heart attack and thus of course he had to be a smoker. A man who died in his mid-eighties was also listed as having died as a side effect from smoking though he was in fact old enough to have died of a heart attack anyway (and he had stopped smoking). I'm sure that smoking actually is bad for people, but exaggerating how bad it is doesn't lend me confidence in researchers.

I know several people who trace serious illnesses to the flu shot or other immunization, but because medical authority "knows" such shots to be safe, it is assumed that the real cause was something else and thus it isn't even noted in the medical records as a possible reaction. (Do that enough times and you will keep the percentage of side effects artificially way low.)

I know people who swear by a vegetarian diet . . . but two of the three vegetarians I have known personally have died of cancer. (That's hardly statistical proof of anything, but it is another example of how numbers can be used to "prove" anything and another reason I personally am skeptical of "eat this and you'll live to old age.")

And of course we know that medical wisdom needs the birth control pill because one of the biggest blights on society is the danger of pregnancy when people have sex . . . so it is treated as a super-safe medication even though it is in fact a highly toxic one.

A sentence that starts "Doctors know . . ." isn't always proof that the rest of the sentence is going to be factual. It may well be skewed to fit a person's worldview.
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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby OldBear » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:44 pm

Leah wrote:Again, it is the marketing that bothers me.

. . .

I do not like it when drug marketers use guilt to try to get people to give their children drugs or vaccines that have high risks of side effects. The choices of a teen or young adult play a role in that person's health, too.


Marketing strategies are based on maximizing sales while minimizing costs. Two fundamental marketing strategies are FAB and FUD. FAB - explaining the factual Features, demonstrating the competitive Advantages, and conveying the satisfying Benefits - is positive marketing. FUD - engendering Fear, creating Uncertainty, and increasing Doubt - is negative marketing.

FAB strategies work well to sell things that satisfy a need. E.g.: A well designed, protective motorcycle helmet provides assurance of safety. FUD strategies are designed to create a need to be satisfied. E.g.: Failure to buy a well designed, protective motorcycle helmet will lead to major injury, even death.

The FAB of making the choice to abstain from sexual intimacy until a monogamous marriage relationship is consummated is self evident. The FAB of choosing to be sexually intimate with more than one partner or to be unable to resist sexual intimacy with someone outside of marriage is not self evident. Thus, FUD marketing works more effectively to convince (guilt) people to take the HPV vaccination.

FUD marketing of HPV vaccination is presumptive (daughters will have sex with partners that have had sex) and patronizing (Mom, did you know?).

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Re: HPV Vaccine Marketing

Postby blondie » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:04 am

I think most of the advertising industry, when there is something to sell, uses deception. You have someone who looks good, smiles like mad and looks as though they have found the answer to life because they have a certain product. Really?

With regard to pills some Doctors admit to giving pills to some patients because the patients's confidence in the pill makes them feel better when they know that the actual pill does nothing much and can even slowly poison in the long run.

We get the word pharmacy from the greek word pharmakeia which in greek means sorcery, so one does wonder. Most of these pills manage a sickness but don't heal it. Not to be legalistic about it but most of scripture exhorts us to go to God for healing. I try to do that if I can and have the faith although I think operations and care etc. are good practical things if we need them, but I am very careful what I put in my body.
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