When can we not use condoms?

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TheHubby
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When can we not use condoms?

Postby TheHubby » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:15 pm

My wife recently went off the pill and we started charting, BBT and CM,although have not been very diligent about it. We are using condoms but neither of us like them. At this point we cannot afford to get pregnant. Are there times it is safe to intercourse without a condom, I can withdraw, and we won't get pregnant?
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby thisbejoe7 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:39 pm

It really depends on your wife and how her fertility cycle works. If she has a regular cycle and can reliably track her fertility then you can find out which days should be "safe days". My wife and I used this natural method for years before I had a vas in 2005. Its not a bullet proof method of birth control and you have to be careful, but it worked well for my wife and I for several years.

Arogen

Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby Arogen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:34 pm

Anytime you will be OK with it if a child is conceived. For DW and I it seemed anytime we took a chance God sent us a gift. We didn't take a chance unless we were ready to accept the possible consequences so it wasn't that big a deal. They are not accidents, they are passion babies.

A diaphragm might be a better way to go, you don't lose that person to person intimate contact that way.

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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby ledgemoor » Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:43 pm

We did it unprotected only during her period and never got pregnant. It is not foolproof -- it is possible that bleeding from ovulation or other causes could be confused with a period.

Second the diaphragm. DW eventually became allergic to the spermacide, but it worked great while it worked. It wouldn't hurt to use it without spermacide as a backup to FAM etc. No studies have been done, but it is theorized that it is an effective barrier by itself.
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby TheHubby » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:18 pm

I'll check out diaphragms but not sure if the wife will go for it. Is there a time after her period ends that its safe to not use a condom? It works for people using NFP so there must at least be a time, right?
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby George B. » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:03 am

if you rigorously and diligently use the fertility awareness method (FAM) plus condoms, that works very well. It's a method my DW and I used for many years and it worked very well.

from my understanding of the way that a normal male reproductive system works, you should be able to also have bareback sex without a condom until you're ready to ejaculate, as long as there isn't any viable sperm left over in the urinary tract from a recent ejaculation. However, this requires a good amount of self-control on the part of the guy and a good awareness of his impending orgasm. I don't normally recommend it for those reasons.

Anyway, this can be very effective, especially if you use one of the fertility awareness method cycle tracking computer programs out there. Take Control of Your Fertility (TCOYF) is the one we used for a long time and it's the best in my opinion.

Hope that helps.
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby George B. » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:09 am

TheHubby wrote:I'll check out diaphragms but not sure if the wife will go for it. Is there a time after her period ends that its safe to not use a condom? It works for people using NFP so there must at least be a time, right?


there is generally a time after her period when she's infertile, but you need to monitor it carefully after you've established a history of her cycle. Feel free to PM me if you want specific information on this. It's a bit complicated, but if you want to avoid pregnancy, you have to be rigorous with it and not fudge the system. She'll need a basal thermometer to chart temps and if she uses the mucus testing method, it's even more sure for charting when she's fertile and infertile. The computer program I mentioned will help you figure out what "safe" days there are for having unprotected sex. Generally those are just after her period and also just before it, but you HAVE to chart faithfully to know when those days are. If you don't do the charting, you may end up missing an ovulation and you will end up with a surprise pregnancy. If you follow the system, it is very effective, however.

Hope that doesn't overwhelm you, but I want to be helpful.
On sex: "Neither men nor women will be asked to throw away the weapon they have used victoriously. It is the beaten and the fugitives who throw away their swords. The conquerors sheathe theirs and retain them."-C.S. Lewis

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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby ledgemoor » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:53 am

I did a little searching on using a diaphragm without spermicide, and found that I was wrong in saying no studies have been done. Some studies show it to be more effective when worn continuously without spermicide, than traditional usage where it is inserted, with spermicide before sex.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8403903

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaphragm_(contraceptive)
under Risks references a study which showed a 24% failure rate. Read the link to the abstract of the study --it is interesting.

All women were given a 60mm diaphragm instead of being properly fitted. Assuming the study was done on an American or European population, that is way too small for most. Diaphragms come in sizes from 50mm to 100mm, and even back in the day when diaphragms were popular, very few pharmacies stocked this size.

What objections do you think your wife will have to it?
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby TilWeHaveFaces » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:02 am

There's generally a period of about 7-10 days smack in the middle of a cycle that are the risky days, generally around days 9-16 -- but to do that with a calendar ensures that you *will* have an unexpected pregnancy. :lol: Still, those are the only days on which you actually need a condom.

Instead, if you take daily basal waking temperatures and internal observations, and can spot the onset of cervical mucus (which indicates the onset of fertility) and can properly diagnose a sustained temperature rise (which indicates the end of the fertile window) you'll be able to pinpoint the days to take extra precautions with something like 100% accuracy. It's really not difficult to understand, but you have to be diligent about practicing.

Personally, I think TCOYF is for everyone, not strictly for those practicing FAM or NFP.

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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby TheHubby » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:14 am

I've been meaning to read TCOYF but haven't yet, I'll have to get on it. I have an app to track the data t need to be collecting everyday. My wife doesn't seem to be totally into charting and only takes her temp if I hand her the thermometer in the morning, she is not a morning person. I would rather withdraw than wear a condom, especially during her non-fertile time.

I think my wife would be weirded out by having to place a diaphragm inside herself. She won't check her cervical mucus, I do, which I don't mind :D , because she doesn't want to stick her finger in her vagina. I'd be happy to insert the diaphragm for her though.
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby tentsofpurple » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:49 am

We use something called the lady comp (you can google it) to track my fertile times. Its a little computer that you use to take your temp every morning (it has a built in alarm) and it tracks your cycle calculates your fertile days (indicated by a red light) and your infertile days (indicated by a green light). Its got a pretty high effectiveness rating and while it was expensive it was worth it for us to not have to worry about writing things down, keeping track on my own, interpreting data etc. We've been using it successfully (we have sex like normal on the green days and he pulls out on the red days) for over a year and are pretty happy about it. Its another option worth researching imo.

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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby TheHubby » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:16 pm

The ladycomp sounds cool, but we can't afford an expensive gadget. I don't mind charting the way we do. I do wish it was more of a priority to my wife though, so we didn't have to rely on condoms.

Tents, are you using withdrawal only during your fertile times?

Are you ok with getting pregnant?

I'd love to use withdrawal, but it makes me nervous. I'd like us to at least use it during her non-fertile times.
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby George B. » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:55 pm

TheHubby wrote:The ladycomp sounds cool, but we can't afford an expensive gadget. I don't mind charting the way we do. I do wish it was more of a priority to my wife though, so we didn't have to rely on condoms.

Tents, are you using withdrawal only during your fertile times?

Are you ok with getting pregnant?

I'd love to use withdrawal, but it makes me nervous. I'd like us to at least use it during her non-fertile times.


You can go ahead and ejaculate inside her during non-fertile times, but you should have a good handle on her charts and when she's fertile and not fertile. Using more than one method (temp plus cervical mucus) makes things more sure.

Technically, you should be able to use withdrawal on fertile days, but you have to be extra careful. If you've ejaculated within the last 24 hours or so, then there might be sperm in your urethral tract, which could be introduced during intercourse even before ejaculation. Also, you have to withdraw well before ejaculation, not right when you feel yourself ejaculating, as there might be a small spurt of semen that occurs before you realize it. We had good success with withdrawal during fertile times, for us, we used condoms during fertile times because I wanted to ejaculate inside her. So, we would have bareback sex until I was ready to come and then we would put on the condom.

If you as the man do kegels for yourself, that will help a ton with knowing the sensations associated with orgasm and ejaculation as well as being able to control it better in general.

Hope all that makes sense.
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby tentsofpurple » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:14 pm

Yes we do use withdrawal only during fertile times the rest of the time he finishes inside me. We know its not completely fool proof and would be ok with a surprise pregnancy but so far its worked for over a year. He does have to have good self control and self awareness. Also from what we've read if you pee after ejaculating that should flush out any sperm remaining in the urethral tract.

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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby George B. » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:16 pm

tentsofpurple wrote:Yes we do use withdrawal only during fertile times the rest of the time he finishes inside me. We know its not completely fool proof and would be ok with a surprise pregnancy but so far its worked for over a year. He does have to have good self control and self awareness. Also from what we've read if you pee after ejaculating that should flush out any sperm remaining in the urethral tract.


we concur. That's worked for us, too.
On sex: "Neither men nor women will be asked to throw away the weapon they have used victoriously. It is the beaten and the fugitives who throw away their swords. The conquerors sheathe theirs and retain them."-C.S. Lewis

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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby TheHubby » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:56 pm

Thanks for the advice. I've brought up withdrawal with the wife but she was afraid we would get pregnant and therefore said no. I'll try to bring it up again since I read that using condoms perfectly is 98% effective and withdrawal is 96% effective.

When am I suppose to withdraw, well before ejaculation or right as the feeling comes on or something else?
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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby George B. » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:38 pm

TheHubby wrote:Thanks for the advice. I've brought up withdrawal with the wife but she was afraid we would get pregnant and therefore said no. I'll try to bring it up again since I read that using condoms perfectly is 98% effective and withdrawal is 96% effective.

When am I suppose to withdraw, well before ejaculation or right as the feeling comes on or something else?


You should withdraw well before ejaculation, especially at first as you get used to the method. I would also start doing kegels on yourself (PM me if you want more details on how to do them properly) so that you can achieve better self-control and also be able to recognize the sensation of approaching orgasm better.

As others have said, make sure that you don't enter her if she's fertile and you've ejaculated recently until you clear your urethral tract by urinating.
On sex: "Neither men nor women will be asked to throw away the weapon they have used victoriously. It is the beaten and the fugitives who throw away their swords. The conquerors sheathe theirs and retain them."-C.S. Lewis

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Re: When can we not use condoms?

Postby HeatherF » Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:21 am

TheHubby wrote:I've been meaning to read TCOYF but haven't yet, I'll have to get on it. I have an app to track the data t need to be collecting everyday. My wife doesn't seem to be totally into charting and only takes her temp if I hand her the thermometer in the morning, she is not a morning person. I would rather withdraw than wear a condom, especially during her non-fertile time.

I think my wife would be weirded out by having to place a diaphragm inside herself. She won't check her cervical mucus, I do, which I don't mind :D , because she doesn't want to stick her finger in her vagina. I'd be happy to insert the diaphragm for her though.


During her non-fertile time (after the egg is gone, before her period starts) you can have unprotected sex inside of her all the way to the finish with 0% of pregnancy. There is nothing to be fertilized, no way to get pregnant. Mistakes only happen if you make a mistake reading or charting the signs. So you don't have to practice withdrawal during her non-fertile times. (I would not advise using it during fertile times though...)

I agree with what everyone is saying about Taking Charge of Your Fertility, it's a great book!

Also, your wife does not need to put her fingers in her vagina, she just has to wipe with a tissue at least 3 times a day and examine the results. So she will need to come in contact with her own fluids, touch them, stretch them, and so on. But she really should start doing that, eventually she will get over any "ick" factor she feels, it will just be normal. It will be good for her to think of her vagina and her fluids as normal and not "icky."

I think it's very sweet of you to hand her the thermometer, my sweet husband also reminds me to take mine in the morning, otherwise I would forget :o)


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