unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

What's supposed to happen on the wedding night? Will it hurt? What if I'm not a virgin? ...
jerem
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unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby jerem » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:48 pm

context.

ill try to be as coherent as possible
we are now six months out from our wedding, I am a virgin she is not and she recently said that in the first few weeks/ months that she would like me to be in complete control of our sex life, until she is comfortable with and confident in her own nakedness with me. her main reason being that she has "been there, done that" and wants to let me find things out for my self, an not go straight to 10 as she would think she is inclined to do.

my experience is pornography, and its effects may never leave me, though i hope that the love i share with my future wife will replace them, god willing.

there fore my question is, in the mean time, is it healthy/ unhealthy, right/wrong, etc to use what i know from pornography, for want of a better phrase, to better love and pleasure my wife?


thanks

Jerem
Last edited by jerem on Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

av8r75
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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby av8r75 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:01 pm

I would probably start by getting away from the idea that porn has "taught" you anything. As is discussed at length eslewhere on TMB, porn is not about sex so much as it's about generating particular images to maximize stimulation. That's why so many here (and increasingly elsewhere, too) speak of porn using the language of drugs and drug addiction: there really is no meaningful difference between them.
I suspect that you're worried that you won't be able to please your more experienced FW. That's natural, I suppose, but to me her desire to let you lead in the beginning suggests that she does not share your concern, or at least that she is more concerned with starting your marriage out right.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby jokerman » Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:00 pm

So if you've seen people doing oral sex in a porn film, you're going to now avoid doing it?

You saw what you saw. It's in the past. Don't let it ruin your sex life going forward by drawing artificial limits.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby ledgemoor » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:02 pm

av8r75 wrote:I would probably start by getting away from the idea that porn has "taught" you anything.

Exactly. Forget about whatever you think you learned from porn. Sex isn't like that at all -- specifically, what the actresses pretend to enjoy isn't what real women enjoy or how they enjoy it. Real sex between two people who love each other wouldn't make a good spectator sport. It would be boring to watch. It takes a long time, with a lot of nothing but cuddling for long periods of time. But it's great for the people doing it!

Read some books on female sexual response. Go to your library and whatever they have will be better than porn. A couple recommendations at the top of my head are "Sheet Music", and "She Comes First" (free on ISSUU btw).

While it is good to go into marriage as a man knowledgeable about women's bodies, remember that while certain things are generally true, no one else is exactly like your wife, so just use the books as a starting point. You will need to experiment and communicate. It's perfectly OK to ask "does that feel good?". "What do you want me to do?". Questions you would be asking whether or not your wife was experienced or not.

You are shooting at a moving target too, btw. What works tonight might not work next year or the next day .

And don't sweat the first time. Just have fun discovering each other and being together. We both had orgasms our first day together, but no PIV until the next day, and orgasm from PIV 10 years later. Still not frequent. And, DW just mentioned that I'm getting really good at sex. After 30-some years :lol:
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jerem
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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby jerem » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:45 pm

i understand that, more my question is, in the mean time, is it healthy/ unhealthy, right/wrong, etc to use what i know in my imagination from pornography, for want of a better phrase, to better love and pleasure my wife?

thanks

mamame
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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby mamame » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:11 am

If you didn't do anything you saw in pornography what would that leave you with?

Maybe you need to be more specific. Are there specific acts that you are concerned about? Scenarios?

So little of what is in porn translates to actual married sex.

Let's talk about oral sex for example. Real life is not much like porn at all. Your mouth will be in contact with her vulva but that's about it.
I don't want your confidence to take a hit because things don't work the way you expect. Porn can give you a false confidence about sex and then yank it out from under you.

Instead read something like "she comes first" I think it might be more helpful.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby av8r75 » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:59 am

jerem wrote:i understand that, more my question is, in the mean time, is it healthy/ unhealthy, right/wrong, etc to use what i know in my imagination from pornography, for want of a better phrase, to better love and pleasure my wife?

thanks

I'm just going to say it: yes, I believe it would be wrong and unhealthy to do so. By holding those images, and mentally referencing them during sex, you are pulling your focus away from your FW and placing it on another. The general consensus here seems to be that fantasizing about another during sex (and make no mistake, that is what you would be doing) constitutes adultery.

How about this: will you be disappointed in your FW if she does not do the things you have seen girls do in porn? If she doesn't DT, DP, beg you to finish on her face? If no, then why assume she will be disappointed in you? If yes, then there are much bigger issues at play here.

Again, porn is not an instruction manual. You can't unsee the things you've viewed, but you can understand them for what they are: extreme visual stimuli designed to elicit a very visceral response, but in a way that leaves the viewer unfulfilled and needing more...another hit.

Give your FW the benefit of the doubt. It's a good habit to get into ;) She is choosing you. She believes you will make a good husband, which naturally includes fulfilling her sexually. She wants YOU to pleasure her, not some amalgamation of men from porn videos. Have faith in her and yourself.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby jokerman » Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:44 am

jerem wrote:i understand that, more my question is, in the mean time, is it healthy/ unhealthy, right/wrong, etc to use what i know in my imagination from pornography, for want of a better phrase, to better love and pleasure my wife?

thanks


No, its not wrong.

If you saw a woman getting a swat on the bum on film, and you try it out in your own sexual life (and your DW liked it), it's not like that act is tainted for all time. In my thinking, you would have figured it out eventually on your own.

This reminds me a bit of musicians who have come out of a debauched lifestyle and who know are trying to figure out how to use what they know for entirely different purposes. Some people drop their instrument altogether. Others realize a technique is just a technique, and that the best thing to do is to devote their bag of tricks toward something good (even if those tricks were learned in a much darker environment).

I agree with mamame that this conversation is suffering from generalities.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby ledgemoor » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:19 am

jerem wrote:...is it healthy/ unhealthy, right/wrong, etc. to use what i know in my imagination from pornography....

Knowledge, no. "Imagination", that makes me uncomfortable. Do you mean picturing what you saw in porn in your mind and using it as a how-to guide? I think it is wrong to picture another woman, even fully clothed, while you are making love to your wife. Or to think about work, what you plan to do afterwards, etc. for that matter. She deserves your undivided attention.

BTW, I don't think that you will find imagining other women while making love to your wife to be a temptation. She is real and right there with you, complete with delightful smells and tastes and textures, a level of reality that film cannot come close to. Would you be imagining an ad you saw for Outback Steakhouse while eating at Outback Steakhouse? Of course not.

And again, I don't know what you have seen in porn that could be particularly useful, given all the other resources that are available. If you need help with, for example, a particularly complicated position that looks fun, there are plenty of pen-and-ink drawings of every position imaginable that are easier to follow than a photograph.

I really appreciate that you are thinking this all thru and putting this much effort into the success of your marriage. But I think you are overthinking this aspect of it. Go, and have a good time!
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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby jerem » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:48 pm

Just to be sure the memories now are all the particular acts ive seen with no particular other woman, or man for that matter in mind, if i ever fantasy about making love to a woman, it has been only my future bride as the focus) which of course ive found even more hard to resist as she is real, like as been said. but is also a small re assurance to me that my conscience is committed to her and she is IT for me, resting my anxiety many times. .

Ive never really thought about it as an advert versus being there, logically i see that working, but i am very anxious by nature( something else im working on) I do over think everything. . .

Thanks ledgemoor, ive never really though of this as an effort into making marriage a success, but again i can see tat too, cheers.


Imagination? probably the wrong word. . . more whats now in my memory, thanks to what i have watched, and accepting the fact that those memories are now there. how to best turn that memory from something potentially devastatng into something useful and thereby nullifying its worse effect. but i think ill stick with my own ideas. you are probably right that i have over thought this aspect, which is feeding the fire so to speak. . .

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Postby Job29Man » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:57 pm

I assume you've stopped porn right? Say yes. The only correct answer is "Yes. I'm done with that poison!" And now you need to swear it off for the rest of your life.

Next. Dive deep into a life of prayer, holiness, service to God, Church, and society. Ask God to clear your mind of all the old filth, and now you fill it again with things that are good, lovely, of good repute.

Next. Forget about the porn. It's as real as the TV Pro Wrestling. IOW it's all fake. Real life isn't like that. Maybe you get the idea to "try something" unusual from porn... but the marriage bed is a holy place. You can do whatever you want int he marriage bed if you have pure motivation. If your motivation is to put your wife in the place of a porn-actress and pretend she is the porn-star, then don't do it. That's lust.

The most harm I think you could do to your marriage through porn is to let it shape your expectations. Do not expect your wife to respond the way the porn actresses "respond." They are faking it. They aren't "responding" at all. They are acting. You don't want DW to "act". You want her to receive your love and pleasure, right? Be happy with *her* response!

Another thing. Don't set a goal of "trying everything" you've ever seen done on porn. Especially not soon. I'd suggest you learn to love "the basics." Can I just say that "regular" sex will blow your mind? I'm talking about just straight up man-on-top missionary position intercourse! Seriously, it is "Oh-My-God" kind of stuff! Learn to love it. If you do nothing but that, and maybe two other positions for your first several years your sex-life can be super-amazing awesome! If you focus on deepening your spiritual connection with God and each other, and just doing PIV without all the sex position charts, etc. it'll be great!

Save some things for later. My goodness. There's stuff that DW and I never even thought to try for 15, 20, 25 years! :lol: And our marriage bed was good and fulfilling all that time. Give yourself somewhere to grow.
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unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby landschooner » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:28 pm

There is no rule that says you can't use what you know. But what you don't know is your wife. Like JM said, if the thought of a swat on the bum would never have occurred to you, but you try it and she likes it, then great! I would never have known to French kiss unless I'd seen it on tv. Probably would have figured it out soon enough. My wife only likes it for a bit because it gets too sloppy for her so I adjust to accommodate my wife and what she likes. But I'm not dropping French kissing cause I saw it on "The Love Boat"

That being said, I think there's a lot if wisdom in Jobs post about not going for everything all at once etc.

LS


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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby mamame » Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:32 pm

Things are going to be new for your FW too. She's never had sex with YOU - her HUSBAND. It's a whole different ballgame. You will both have to figure this out together.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby partydelights » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:34 pm

Hi Jerem,
First of all congratulations!
Many had good answers worth following and I'll try not to repeat.

jerem wrote:there fore my question is .... to better love and pleasure my wife?

1) To show love to your wife, seek out what she expects from you as a husband, inside and outside the bedroom.

I always believe the best sex experience happens in the mind and hence the most powerful sex organ is the brain. You ability to stimulate and pleasure her mind throughout the day is the best foreplay, IMHO. (And you don't find any of these in porn.)

2) Sex may join your bodies, but love making join your souls.

Porn may show how a woman is well pleased by her man by mere "sexual adventure". But in reality, PIV alone usually do not bring a woman to O, neither will she be pleased with mere physical manifestations of sexuality.

In fact, sweet talks (from your heart of course), demonstration of your care, concern and love for her means much more. (Sounds unromantic to you? Indeed. I learn this the hard way myself.)

3) Believe in the old fashion methods.....
Yes, speak with flowers (works soooooo well for me), gifts (need not be expensive, but thoughtful), and (very effective for me) a short holiday (budget holiday works well too, in my case). Of course, date nights works very well too.

And I believe, no porn EVER taught you these.

4) She not experience. No, your FW has nailed her past to the cross. It was covered and will NOT be brought to mind again.

She never have sex with you, have she? So she's inexperienced with you.

More is required of her than just have sex with you. I'm sure she does not know how to please you 100% the way you likes her to. So she too has much to learn, from you, about yourself, your needs. So engage her. Communicate with her.

And porn doesn't teach you this as well. No women know how to please her husband completely the first night of their marriage. So porn was, and still is, and will continue to be WRONG, to show an apparently "experienced" woman with abilities to put her man (usually not married) to the third heavens.

(And BTW, even after more than 17 years, I am still on earth when making love with my DW. The pleasure is no doubt great, but still earthly though.)

So to conclude, as with the replies before mine, [Reset] your brain ASAP and become as babe to porn. Learn the real techniques of love making, foreplay and do not use porn in any way, definitely not bring any to your marriage bed.

PS: The way women experience "good" sex is quite different from men. Thus, that which arouses and pleases you could be totally opposite from hers (e.g. you may crave to see her naked and deem that view as pleasurable, but she may find you in your tux sexually arousing).
I love my wife, that's why I crave to have sex with her.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby tender twig » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:35 pm

Jerem,
To your direct question, I think it is okay to do anything between your wife and you, and that's whether you learned it one way or another. Just do it in love.

As far as any holdover of porn images on you, focus on the good stuff in your life, between whats in you and your wife's relationship, and things that you want to develop that grow into more beauty and honor.

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby jerem » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:17 am

hello all
apologies for delayed response, i have been reading them and thinking over
the last few weeks. thanks for your response. i think its clear now

jerem

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Re: unhelpful knowledge put to good use?

Postby AlpacaMan » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:04 am

Jerem, I think tender twig has got it right. The reality is, as Solomon observed 3000 years ago, there is nothing new under the sun, and most of the things we try in bed, we heard about somewhere else first. We may have heard from friends, parents, books, magazines, web sites, porn, or elsewhere, but in no case does the source of the idea to try something really matter. Job29Man and others have rightly cautioned you against expecting your DW to respond like the women you've seen in porn.

If you search the Bible carefully, you'll find that it has nothing of substance to say, pro or con, about any particular sex act*. Any sexual sin described in the Bible is defined by the participants, not by the act itself. Incest is sin, and that's defined by the family relationship between the participants. Fornication is sin, and that's defined by the participants being unmarried. And so forth. Any particular act, though, is a matter of freedom, and so long as you and your DW agree on it, and it involves only the two of you, it is permissible. You and your DW will need to determine, though, whether it's beneficial for you (see 1 Cor. 10:23 and others). You will also need to be careful not to violate your, or your DW's, conscience--if either of you believe an act is wrong, it is sinful for you, even though the Bible may be silent on it (see Rom. 14:23).

To give an example, oral sex is perfectly permissible between a husband and wife--there is no Biblical prohibition against it, and no general principle that would counsel against it either. Many, many couples find it very enjoyable, and find that it draws them closer together. If you find, though, that you have flashbacks to pornographic images when your DW is performing OS on you, that would not be beneficial for you, and you should refrain from OS, at least for a time. If you find that it interferes with your intimacy (perhaps because you aren't face-to-face), you should refrain. If your DW finds it degrading, that's something that should be worked out, but in the interim you should refrain.

* Yes, Song of Solomon can easily be read as describing oral sex between Solomon and his beloved. However, "Solomon did X", or even "Solomon enjoyed doing X" are not the same as "X is good", much less "you should/must do X".


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