Don't Enjoy Sex

[poetess]

Since no one else has answered this piece of counsel, I guess I will:

Move in together, keep separate bedrooms, and masturbate alone with your door closed.

I disagree with this. There are circumstances in which it is OK for men and women to live in the same household (family members or a boarding-house situation), but an unrelated man and woman living together, just the two of them, isn't one of them. Even if there is no sexual temptation, it still isn't wise, and it definitely would not give the right impression to others who saw it. And there is the possibility of sexual temptation or other kinds of l intimacy that also aren't appropriate outside marriage.

[NotYourAverageGuy]

^^^ I agree. I would not want to live together for the very reasons you cite. We are to avoid the appearance of evil and most people would assume you are more than roommates. We could be good friends and live in separate homes.

[Job29Man]

Poetess, I agree with you and the following post that any marriage I had with this woman would be far less than a Biblical marriage. I seriously question my ability to *ever* be emotionally fit enough for a proper marriage...

Your thinking seems clear enough on this. It seems to be confirmed by TMB members. So... what conclusion are you coming to?

[NotYourAverageGuy]

I am thinking we should not get married. I know she will be hurt though. She seems determined to get married no matter what. She is such an optimist. No matter what I say to open her eyes she just finds a reason to believe. I think it's going to take me putting my foot down (lovingly) and just saying no. I don't see another way. We don't have the right basis for a marriage and I know I would hate having to have regular sex for her sake.

[sd595]

I think one of the reasons we are here is to learn and grow into the beings that God desires us to. There is no doubt NYAG that you would have some challenges and growth that need to occur to have a marriage God is pleased with. You have a choice here, continue foster this relationship into something more where it might mean marriage and require growth, hard praying, doing things you don't feel like, or backburner this relationship into a friendship that has finite limits so you can be content to stay where you are. What is better for you spiritually? For her? For His kingdom? These are the things you should be praying about. There are a lot of factors to consider, and perhaps many things that should be done to grow before considering marriage, but if given a choice between stagnate and live out your last few decades and grow with struggle...I say grow. On the other hand, if you feel you are better spiritually as a single and can do more for God as a single, then be obedient to that.

Honestly, if one can enter into marriage saying, "Lord I accept what you say about marriage in the bible. I am committed to meeting the responsibilities and role you have assigned to me as a husband whether I am feeling it that day or not." you will be doing far better than most people who enter into marriage with no idea what they doing.

edit to add;

I know I would hate having to have regular sex for her sake.

Hate is a very strong word. If you really feel this way then I agree, don't get married.

[NotYourAverageGuy]

When you physically feel nothing special during sex and emotionally you are not connected then the whole thing is just strange. It's like someone raving about some food and saying how much you are going to love it and dying in anticipation for you to try it. So you do and it does nothing for you. In fact you don't really even like it. They are looking at your expectantly face alite ready to be gleeful when you echo their praise of the food but instead you have to gently let them down that it was ok but nothing special (but really thinking you didn't like it at all and don't need to ever try it again).

[ledgemoor]

There are circumstances in which it is OK for men and women to live in the same household (family members or a boarding-house situation), but an unrelated man and woman living together, just the two of them, isn't one of those.

I actually don't disagree with you. An unrelated man and woman being housemates is not a sin, but not wise.

But, given the hypothetical option of a sham "marriage" or sharing a house, I say share the house. If sexual temptation arises in the OP, praise the Lord! Get married and share a bed.

[SeekingChange]

SD595, you act like if he stays single he is choosing to stay stagnant and the only way for him to grow is getting married, This is not an either/or situation. He can grow being single AND he could stay stagnant getting married, which seemed to be his mindset, therefore the reason for the advice on not pulling another person into it via marriage.

[sd595]

Well, it is a way for him to grow in an area he has had difficulty. That isn't to say it is the only way he can grow. He can certainly grow as a single person, but being single may not present the same type of issues to grow through. That may be fine, in his own words, he doesn't enjoy sex, but at the same time admits that he has a physical need. That makes me question if growth and healing in the sex area would be a blessing to him vs. not for the remaining decades of his life. I'm not trying to push him to marry, but at the same time be open to the idea that it could be a blessing, one that God may have put into motion for a reason.

When I hear "this is the way that I am" and I hear it from many folks so I'm not picking on NYAG. It is the way someone is _right now_, but that doesn't mean they should always be that way. I often hear "I refuse or can't change or grow". We should all be open to alignment to the Lord, and often He calls us to grow in a way that is difficult or not our first choice. With that said, we do have a choice in things and I think there are multiple choices we can take.

Ultimately I think he should pray and ask God for how to proceed. We can give advice all day, but the HS can lead if we are willing to follow.

[ledgemoor]

Do you enjoy anything?

I would say I enjoy photography (I am a professional photographer on the side), cycling, skiing, reading, and watching movies. However I rarely use the word "fun" or "excited." I can't say I get excited much except in my faith. I just don't have strong emotions. I don't even use the word "happy" much. I strive for peace more than happiness. I don't think there is anything wrong with righteous pleasure. Not at all. God wants us to experience life to the full. I am just not that into pleasure. I like good hard massages that make you squirm or bike rides that leave me wasted at the end. I've often felt a good bike ride beats sex hands down.

Enjoyment is not the same as pleasure. I enjoy bicycle racing very much. Is racing fun? Yeah, a little I guess. Is it pleasurable? Not at all. Uncomfortable seat, branches and thorns slapping you, either too hot or too cold, and covered in mud. The enjoyment in this and the other things you mention is in the accomplishment of it. And that's good. We need to push ourselves and grow throughout our lives. Otherwise you die (metaphorically speaking).

But that doesn't make godly pleasure in any way inferior. That is just as much a part of life as the challenges we face and create for ourselves. Ride your bike just to have fun sometimes. Ride someplace scenic when the weather is perfect just to enjoy the sites, the mystery of being able to balance on two wheels, the breeze over your face. Get a massage sometime just for relaxation and pleasure. Enjoy the sensation of an expert touch and the feel of someone else's hands -- especially lady hands.

You sound very disciplined. Were you a good student? Not knocking that, but suggesting that you focus some of that discipline on living a more balanced life -- one that includes relaxing a bit and just enjoying life. You work hard and play hard all the time, you will burn yourself out, and a symptom of burnout is feeling nothing.

The medications you are on. Stick with the testosterone and tyroid (although I recommend injections as opposed to testosterone cream. They are more effective long-term and easier to control dosage). The other stuff: Some drugs do affect libido and more. There is a TED talk where they speaker says that long-term SSRI usage interferes with pair bonding chemistry. I don't know if any of the stuff you are taking are SSRIs or not, but bottom line is they affect the mind. We don't know exactly how they effect YOUR mind -- everyone is different. The opinion the professional giving this TED talk is that they are fine the get you over a rough spot, but are not good for long-term use. Sounds good to me. There are a few people who need psychiatric medication on a permanent basis, but I think they are overprescribed and not needed by most people to get thru the normal trials and travails of normal life. Why not talk with your doctor about the possibility discontinuing them on a trial basis?

Anyway, friend, you sound frustrated and ready to give up. I can't understand what you are going thru, and it's easy to for me to say "don't give up", but I'm going to say it again anyway.

Maybe take an hour this week to do nothing but try have fun and enjoy pleasure. You may not succeed at first, but like everything else we attempt, you will get better at it. Small steps, vs. no steps, OK?

[NotYourAverageGuy]

First thanks for your thoughtful response Ledgemoor. I do have days where I am out riding or skiing and I am just feeling the breeze, noting the scenery, etc. I used to race but gave it up in part because I did not enjoy racing. It was pressure even if self-imposed. I was not motivated by bettering others or testing myself against them. I really didn't care how good I was compared to anyone else. I am very self-disciplined and don't need a lot of motivation to workout hard. I just enjoy the feeling of pushing my body hard. I am actually very non-competitive. I was a very good student but honestly did not work that hard at it. It came pretty naturally. I do well at my work but I am not career oriented. I put in my 40 hours and that's it. I've had many opportunities for promotions and passed them all up because they would involve more responsibilities, more time, and move me farther from what I really love which is being a hands-on engineer. Plus I like largely working alone and all of the promotions would have meant more meetings and less time alone.

In many ways I have a very balanced life. I work my 40 hours, workout 5-6 days a week, I ride road bike, mountain bike, ski, hike, travel, read, and do professional photography on the side. I am more diverse than most people I know and seldom the least bit bored. When not dating I would usually go from Friday after work to Monday morning at work and hardly say a word to another soul and be fine with that. Years ago while still married we went to a Friday night study at a families home. I did not care for it as the pastor was big on singing and tried to force everyone to learn to sing in parts and his "Bible studies" were weak. Then it was a long aftermath of socializing. Due to the location it did not make sense for me to drive home, collect the family, and drive back so I met them there after work. I would often get sick to my stomach in anticipation of going to the study. Sometimes it was bad enough I just told my wife I was not feeling well and was going to just go home. When I did go I would quietly slip out the back as the social time was beginning and since I drove separately I could then go home while my wife and kids stayed another hour. So I am not very comfortable in social situations and even at home I need time to myself. It's almost like I can't get enough time alone. I crave it. I think it's because it is relaxing to be alone. That is how introverts recharge. The problem is when you are in a relationship wanting to be alone a lot does not work very well.

As for my meds I have weaned off the mood meds before but my body does not react well and I start getting panic attacks and such. This is after a very slow withdrawal. I just don't feel as well off them. Maybe when I retire I could try it again and then give it a long time and not have to worry about functioning at work and see if I eventually settled down but right now it would be hard. It's very possible that overtime the SSRI's have affected me but at the same time I have been this way since childhood and did not start the meds until my mid-40's. I can't say I am any different today than I was 20 years ago so it's hard to blame it on the meds.

I get massages and do relaxing things but nothing relaxes me more than simply being alone. I love having the house all to myself. Just having someone else there even off in another room is not the same. My fiance was gone for 4 days around last weekend and I honestly did not miss her a bit. I loved being alone. It's not that I don't care for her but from my perspective it was only four days and I don't get that emotionally attached to where time apart is going to affect me.

No easy answers. I would not say I have given up so much as I am accepting who I am and trying not to worry about being someone else.

[NotYourAverageGuy]

Just to close the loop on this thread, my fiance and I have discussed it and decided that we are both fine with little or no sex in marriage. I want none and she wants just a tiny bit maybe once a month or less. I've pledged to be there for her when she needs it. The rest of the time we will still be affectionate just not sexual. Neither of us have much of a libido and both have been married before so we know ourselves pretty well by now.

I agree sex should be a beautiful part of marriage but we are all damaged from sin or past hurts. I grew up in an alcoholic family and that and other life experiences have left me emotionally numb and incapable of deep intimacy (emotional). My fiance knows that about me and is ok with it. She feels like her emotional needs are being met. We don't need the pressure of a sex life. If it happens in time then so be it but we both agree it is not essential for us to have a loving marriage. It may be a bit unorthodox but so long as neither of us is missing it then I think we are good.

[poetess]

Thanks for letting us know.

[Alistair]

Thanks for letting us know!

Feel free to come back an chat after the marriage if there is anything on your mind.

[NotYourAverageGuy]

Thanks all. It feels a bit odd not being comfortable with sex in a world saturated with sex and knowing God intended sex to be a beautiful and meaningful part of marriage. Something very special. I realize though for me the damage runs deep. It's more than just an aversion to sex. It's a whole intimacy issue. My biggest debate has not been sex but marriage at all but we do love each other and she feels her emotional intimacy needs are being met and she has very little physical intimacy needs so we might just be that rare couple for whom this arrangement can work.

[Nvr2Late]

Good to see you post again. I've thought of you and your fiancee a few times and wondered how you were doing. I wish you both the very best.

[NotYourAverageGuy]

Good to see you post again. I've thought of you and your fiancee a few times and wondered how you were doing. I wish you both the very best.

Thanks! Not sure I'll be on here much given the nature of this site and the fact that sex won't be much a part of our marriage but I know other discussions go on.

[poetess]

I will say one thing that may or may not have been said earlier (I read this whole thread as it was unfolding, but didn't read it again just now): If and when you marry, your sexuality is no longer your own. If you mutually choose not to have intercourse very often, I guess that is your decision. But solo masturbation instead of mutual engagement will work against marital unity, and I wouldn't recommend it. And if one of you ever decides that more frequent sex is necessary, the other can't say "we agreed to it being rare." If that is acceptable within marriage at all, it is only acceptable by mutual agreement, not if it becomes only one of you deciding that.