Don't Enjoy Sex

What's supposed to happen on the wedding night? Will it hurt? What if I'm not a virgin? ...
NotYourAverageGuy
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:32 pm

Bear wrote:Another thought: would your FW consider joining us here on TMB?


I don't know if she would get on here. Maybe in time.

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landschooner
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby landschooner » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:38 pm

NotYourAverageGuy wrote:She said once a month of less would work for her. I am fine with doing it when she needs it. I will enjoy serving her which is reason enough. I just won't get anything out of it sexually but that is ok.

Actually it isnt ok. Not for someone looking to GET married. I just don't really see the point here. If you two are friends, then be friends. Why marriage? I'm not saying you're a bad guy or anything, but if I was advising her, I'd tell her to look for someone else to marry. Especially for women, being DESIRED is a big deal. Even if they dont want to have sex that much, being DESIRED and feeling DESIRABLE is huge. You can "perform" for her but at this point, you can't give her DESIRE.

I forget who said this but here's a quote. "The man desires the woman, and the woman desires the desire of the man."
I wont say that's the totality of the truth, but there is a lot of insight in that observation.

Again, I'm not trying to criticize you but I'm trying to be blunt. Why would you recommend to her to go into a marriage when its starting out already half broken? I'm not sure I understand that. Earlier you said you would "sacrifice" and have sex with her when she wanted. Does she really want sex with her to be a sacrifice? If you were already married, and it was a sacrifice for you, then yah, you'd have to sacrifice, but why willingly walk into that? Should talking with my wife really be a sacrifice. "Ok, I'll sacrifice and talk to you for an hour" . I mean, if it IS a sacrifice to talk to your wife, then you need to do that, but I'd tell any engaged woman to "run!" if the guy considered talking to her a 'sacrifice". See what I mean? ...And how is it going to be 10 years down the road when your STILL sacrificing? Will you have the energy? I mean, sex FIRES me up man. Even when I'm dragging and its the last thing my body wants, I'm BURNING for her once I think about having sex with her. No exaggeration, and I've been married for 23 years. Whats she going to see from you. Excitement or resignation?

I think this marriage is highly unadvisable. I really do.
Sorry to be a downer. I dont mean to give you a hard time.


LS

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SeekingChange
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby SeekingChange » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:20 pm

Another perspective to think about... if you guys decide to get married under this arrangement, and by some miracle, you experience an awakening and all of a sudden you have a sex drive, you enjoy sex, and you want sex, but your now wife says, "Nope, that wasn't the agreement, sorry.", would you want to be in a marriage until "death do us part", unable to explore your new found freedom and desires? This is a covenant you are entering into, it's not something to take lightly.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:24 pm

SeekingChange wrote:Another perspective to think about... if you guys decide to get married under this arrangement, and by some miracle, you experience an awakening and all of a sudden you have a sex drive, you enjoy sex, and you want sex, but your now wife says, "Nope, that wasn't the agreement, sorry.", would you want to be in a marriage until "death do us part", unable to explore your new found freedom and desires? This is a covenant you are entering into, it's not something to take lightly.


That would not be our arrangement. It would be that I am always available for her but she would not expect me to "perform" or totally give up solo sex (as needed).

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby poetess » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:25 pm

That would not be our arrangement. It would be that I am always available for her but she would not expect me to "perform" or totally give up solo sex (as needed).


But didn't you say that part of your arrangement is that you won't initiate? IN other words, you are almost promising her that she can have as much sex as she wants (if any) but no more. If you decide you want it twice as much as she does, or she decides she never wants it at all, tough luck.

Look, I've always been a proponent of the marriage of convenience. I think companionship is a good, not a bad, reason to get married. Two people in the same apartment complex think they could save money and be less lonely if they move in together (in marriage), then fine. Do so.

Problem is, even such a marriage (as opposed to a heady romantic relationship) has to, for Christians, operate according to Christian principles. That means (as a partial list) if they are young enough to bear children, they need to be willing to do so. That means the husband needs to be the head of the home, actively loving his wife as Christ loved the church--his relationship with her, and his care of her, needs to be his number one human priority. That means, if the marriage is anything more than a legal one "on paper" (to grant her citizenship rights, for example, but unconsummated), that sexual relations are a normal, regular part of it--and that masturbation instead of sex is a rare part (used in times of separation, health problems, and the like, not simple preference). It also means a lifetime commitment, with no possibility of divorce except under really extreme circumstances. It means you give up most of your privacy.

Fluttering hearts are an optional part of marriage; two becoming one is not. If you want to remain two separate people living two separate lives, even sexually, then marriage isn't what you're looking for.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby Nova » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:36 pm

I suppose the analogy that comes to my mind is that of a husband and wife being a reflection of Christ and the church. Imagine if Jesus didn't really want intimacy with his people, and his people weren't really interested in intimacy with Him. They're both there for each other, but there's no passion to be one with each other. And sometimes Christ just does His own thing, even though the Church is willing to be there for him.

I might be stretching the analogy a bit, but I trust my point is made. Far be it from me, a random stranger on the Internet, to tell you what to do with your life, but based on what I've read here, it doesn't seem like you're emotionally fit for marriage.
Please don't think I'm being aggressive just because I use strong language. If I'm posting on your thread, it's because I care.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:48 am

Poetess, I agree with you and the following post that any marriage I had with this woman would be far less than a Biblical marriage. I seriously question my ability to *ever* be emotionally fit enough for a proper marriage. At best we would be some kind of hybrid roommate/spouse type of relationship with occasional sex. The kind of emotional intimacy most couples achieve would be beyond my capabilities. That's not to say I would not try. If I initiated sex it would either be because I had some kind of breakthrough or because I simply wanted to do it out of love for her so she did not feel she always had to initiate. I know though from my past marriage that because my emotions don't engage sex is really just another form of masturbation. It happens to involve another person but it does not involve any special emotions or feelings of oneness. At least for her I would want more.

Then I think of the beautiful new song from Casting Crowns "Broken Together" and even though I know that song is about sticking to a broken marriage I also think part of the message is that two people in a marriage are both broken to some degree. We may never, this side of heaven, be complete. We strive for a marriage like that of Christ and the church but we fall short. In a way we are two broken people trying to be complete but falling short. Perhaps my fiance and I are just more broken than most. I know she is broken in some ways. If she were not I don't think she would be this serious about me. I'm not saying we should be married. We should probably both stay single and just be good friends.

Thank God though you do not have issues like mine. Imagine a lifetime of guilt over having to masturbate. If I had the "gift of singleness" then I would have the self-control to not need that. In reality I don't have that gift yet I am too broken to really have a proper marriage so being married and have sex with a wife is not really an option either not to mention my aversion to sex. So I live with guilt always asking forgiveness. I pray that I could either have that gift or be healed enough for marriage. It just is not yet happening.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:54 am

Have you sought God to the true reason for your emotionlessness and healing from that?
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:52 am

SeekingChange wrote:Have you sought God to the true reason for your emotionlessness and healing from that?


Yes in many a tearful prayer, in counseling, in His Word, and with trusted friends.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby poetess » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:21 am

Thank God though you do not have issues like mine. Imagine a lifetime of guilt over having to masturbate. If I had the "gift of singleness" then I would have the self-control to not need that. In reality I don't have that gift yet I am too broken to really have a proper marriage so being married and have sex with a wife is not really an option either not to mention my aversion to sex. So I live with guilt always asking forgiveness. I pray that I could either have that gift or be healed enough for marriage. It just is not yet happening.


NYAG,

I'm not the typical poster on these boards. I didn't marry until I was in my forties, and I'd never had a "serious" romantic relationship until I met my husband. So I'm very, very familiar with singleness. And, know what? I'm very familiar with brokenness. Not the same sort you've experienced, but with plenty of my own. In my twenties and thirties I would not have been a very good wife (partly because I had little to no libido then, but other reasons too). That did not make me a less valuable member of the body of Christ. There is a real place in the church for singles, even "broken" singles. God has brought much healing in my life; I think I am mostly a healthy adult today. But I still have areas of weakness, areas of brokenness, plenty of areas where I don't feel like I "fit in" with regular society. I have come to realize over time that most people have areas like that. That's OK.

I don't know if there is such a thing as a lifelong gift of singleness; I do know that God gives us grace for wherever he has placed us. For me, for many years I was a contented single--more content to be single than any other single person I knew! Now I'm a very happily married woman. It isn't necessarily that you have "the gift" of singleness or you don't; it's that God can bring contentment in any stage. Ask Him to show you the benefits of singleness as long as He keeps you single, and choose to be content whether it's in singleness or marriage. Singleness is a great time to focus on God, and to minister to others without worrying whether you are taking away from time with your wife. It too is a blessed state.

BTW, I don't think that having a biological need to release semen periodically has anything to do with whether or not one is best suited for singleness. The Bible doesn't say it's wrong to masturbate, and it can be a good release for a single man. The problem is when a married man (or woman) is masturbating instead of engaging in marital union. You don't need to feel guilt over masturbation, as a single man. I believe that is an unnecessary guilt.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:38 am

Thanks for your thoughtful response. At one time I did a lot of teaching at church. I also did extensive writing and played a big role in confronting the whole heresy around Paul's teachings a number of years ago. I have close to an MDiv through self-study and keep a Christian blog. I believe I have a gift for teaching and writing and that is my best way to minister. Obviously I am not that social and don't like big groups so I am less likely to get involved in ministries that involve a lot of people contact. Still the church needs teachers and those who can spot error and confront it with the Word.

I agree masturbation in and of itself, in singleness, is not a sin. The problem is men are very visual. I know there are some who can keep clean thoughts and masturbate. I need some kind of stimulation to hope to succeed. I'm not talking hard core porn but something. That is what I feel guilt about. My imagination alone is not enough.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby happilymarriedkate » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:11 pm

I can't help but to feel that there is much more to your story... But now you have added that you involve porn in your masturbation. I am not the one to talk about that, but there are many, many on here who are equipped to do so. I do, however, feel that I can say that there is very much a sense of giving up that runs through your words- something more intense than a mere "settling for less." At first, I suspected Depression, but then I came across your post about your counselor saying that your personality is in the way. Have you been told that you have Personality Disorder? If so, which one?
~HM Kate

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:04 pm

Honestly I have never been told I have a personality disorder. I think what my counselor meant is that my personality is now pretty fixed due to a lifetime of causes. She feels like I have tried all the various approaches to heal and nothing has worked for me. So she feels that maybe my best course is to accept who I am, quit worrying about changing, and live the best life I can serving the Lord. The only thing close to a personality disorder I've been told is social anxiety.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby landschooner » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:42 pm

NotYourAverageGuy wrote: not to mention my aversion to sex. So I live with guilt always asking forgiveness. I pray that I could either have that gift or be healed enough for marriage. It just is not yet happening.


I think this is your answer brother. I really am sorry.

Blessings to you,

LS

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Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby ledgemoor » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:41 pm

Hi NotAverage:

One thing that struck me is when you said that you don't enjoy food either -- it's just fuel for your body. Do you enjoy anything? Christianity has pagan Asceticism in its roots. I know people who aren't happy unless they are miserable. They generally have a holier-than-thou attitude. You don't seem like that at all. I don't know if that is an issue or not. However, it might be fruitful for you to examine your beliefs on the place of pleasure in the Christian life.

I agree that you should not get "married" at this point -- it sounds like neither of you are ready. (I put "married" in quotes because marriage involves passionate sexual love between a man and a woman. To attach that term to any other relationship shows disrespect to the institution of marriage. There is no such thing as a sexless marriage. Occasional intercourse without passion does not make a marriage either).

I get wanting female companionship. But you can have that without getting a marriage license. Move in together, keep separate bedrooms, and masturbate alone with your door closed. Hopefully you both will work thru this, get the hots for each other or someone else, and get married. But neither of you are there yet.

Really, get another counselor. Saying you can't change is nonsense. God answers prayers and wants to change you. I think the real hurdle will be doing the work and suffering the discomfort of change. But never give up, OK?

You are in my prayers my friend.
Everything you ever wanted in life is just outside your comfort zone (Jamie Lee Curtis)

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:50 pm

landschooner wrote:I think this is your answer brother. I really am sorry.

Blessings to you


Thanks brother

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:25 pm

I agree that whatever I do it should be of faith. I am able to fairly successfully stop masturbating but it comes at the expense of further reducing my already low libido. Right now I have nearly no libido. I don't even think about sex. Things that should be arousing do nothing for me. Frankly I don't know the cause since I've had extensive blood work regularly for the last 2 years and am on testosterone and my level is very good. So the cause does not seem to be physical. Plus I have had times when my libido was very strong with low-T and very weak with high-T. So my testosterone level does not seem to be much of a factor.

I understand what you wrote about sex with a loving woman being so much better but I'm not sure that is true for me. The best way to describe me is to say I am "emotionally numb." I don't *feel* emotions very strongly. It's not that I have none whatsoever but I tend to feel sadness more than gladness. Very little excites me. Very little bothers me. I am stuck in emotional neutral. I suspect it was growing up in an alcoholic home. Becoming numb was a protective reflex. My marriage reinforced that. Now I can't seem to change that. So I don't experience emotional intimacy. At best it is more of a close friend kind of feeling. I can kiss and the other person is finding it very meaningful and pleasurable and to me it's doing nothing for me. I also hate receiving and being the center of attention. I would much rather be the giver. Receiving pleasure is difficult for me both because I don't like being the receive and because I don't find sex all that pleasurable. It's pretty ho hum. My profound lack of emotional intimacy is no doubt to blame.

I just shouldn't marry. Better to face all this on my own and not involve someone else.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:58 pm

ledgemoor wrote: Do you enjoy anything?

I would say I enjoy photography (I am a professional photographer on the side), cycling, skiing, reading, and watching movies. However I rarely use the word "fun" or "excited." I can't say I get excited much except in my faith. I just don't have strong emotions. I don't even use the word "happy" much. I strive for peace more than happiness. I don't think there is anything wrong with righteous pleasure. Not at all. God wants us to experience life to the full. I am just not that into pleasure. I like good hard massages that make you squirm or bike rides that leave me wasted at the end. :lol: I've often felt a good bike ride beats sex hands down.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:05 pm

Some people have wondered about the meds I'm taking and if they might be contributing to either my lack of libido or my lack of emotions. Mind you I am 54 years old and was not on any of these meds until my late 40's. My lack of emotions goes back really to childhood and has always been exactly like it is now. So I doubt they are the cause but who knows...

Here's what I take:

Viibryd - for anxiety
Wellbutrin - for mood
Lipitor - for high cholesterol
Doxazosin - for enlarged prostate
Armour - for low thyroid
Testosterone cream - for low T

Those are the regulars. I also take Xanax as needed but I don't need it much and Trazadone to help me sleep when I have restless legs. I am not on particularly high doses of any of those and both Viibryd and Wellbutrin are know for having few sexual side effects and I have had periods of high libido while taking them.

I should add that while I believe some of my libido was natural some was stress induced. In other words when I got really stressed in the past my libido would go up. I guess it was a mechanism to get me to MB for relaxation.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby Job29Man » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:08 am

Dear Not Average,

Since you asked; I'd say that it would be a bad idea to get married under these circumstances. Remember too that marriage is not just about what we want marriage to be, but it is more importantly about "What does God want for marriages? What is God's design for marriage?"

Ephesians 5 teaches that marriage is a mystery in that it represents Christ and the Church. God wants marriage to be intimate, to be fruitful, to be one-flesh and deeply intimate sexually and otherwise. The marriage you are describing sounds not like that at all. I don't see how it would be God-pleasing to set a personalized different standard for your marriage than what Scripture teaches.

It sounds to me like you have the gift of singleness; embrace that.
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.


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