Don't Enjoy Sex

What's supposed to happen on the wedding night? Will it hurt? What if I'm not a virgin? ...
NotYourAverageGuy
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:12 pm

I have told her I am always willing to have sex if she wants it. I just won't typically initiate (unless I was pretty sure she was in the mood). So yes I am willing to sacrifice for her. Given her very low libido I don't know that stopping MB is a realistic option. My needs, while low, are still more than hers. I just don't feel comfortable having sex though so it doesn't matter how high my libido is. Unfortunately for me sex is not a form of intimacy. At best it is a way to serve my wife and get relief but I will never experience it as anything intimate (emotionally). When you can't connect like that sex doesn't even make the list of the best things in marriage.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:20 pm

sd595 wrote:WHY don't you want to have sex with her?


First my aversion to sex is not about her at all. I just feel awkward and strange as it sounds it does nothing for me. I am all for pleasing her and that would bring me joy but it does nothing for me. I get no more aroused kissing a breast than kissing an elbow. All the things most people enjoy about sex don't apply to me. I find being physically with another person distracting. I have a very hard time getting aroused and often I feel as though my sex organ is feelingless. I have feeling yes but not near enough to build to anything. By the way that can happen in MB as well so it's not that I am too used to MB and the different feeling. Kissing is fine for about a minute. Anything beyond that is boring. See my emotions are not at all engaged and never have been. Hard to give a good analogy but rubbing knuckles with your wife might not do much for either of you. It would not be sexually arousing nor emotionally engaging. Now imagine that same thing but with sex organs.

So for me the challenge is that I am almost never happy having sex. She said once a month of less would work for her. I am fine with doing it when she needs it. I will enjoy serving her which is reason enough. I just won't get anything out of it sexually but that is ok.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby beautyfromashes » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:08 pm

Have you ever been tested for the autism spectrum? I don't mean that as an insult. A lot of what you say about touch and feeling disconnected sounds like someone with high-functioning Asperger's.
Deep intimacy always requires work, acceptance, and forgiveness. Lots of it. ~~ Linda Dillow

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:42 am

beautyfromashes wrote:Have you ever been tested for the autism spectrum? I don't mean that as an insult. A lot of what you say about touch and feeling disconnected sounds like someone with high-functioning Asperger's.


No offense taken. :)

I have never been tested but have seen enough psychologists that if they had suspected it I'm certain it would have been mentioned at some point. In addition, my own reading of the symptoms of the spectrum of autism and related disorders leaves me convinced I have none of them.

I believe I was born well adjusted but at the age of 3 my mother became an alcoholic and the next 14 years were spent growing up in a highly dysfunctional home. My Dad did not know what to do and in those days the options were not as good so he just made the best of it and us children suffered for it. I was the youngest and thus lived with it from the earliest age and for the longest period.

By high school I was having a lot of problems with stress which included being around girls. At that age interacting with the opposite sex can be awkward particularly if you have an interest in someone. Add to it a serious issue with stress and it quickly becomes too much. I broke up with my first female friend because I was too nervous to hold her hand and felt after awhile it was expected and I simply could not do it. I had one date in high school.

I did have my first true girl friend in college for 6 months. That worked because she took all the initiative. After her though I went out on 5 other dates in college then from my graduation until the age of 28 I did not go out on a single date. That's six years in the prime of my 20's without any real social contact with women. I did have some male friends but overall was comfortable being on my own. I finally met and married at age 29 (5 days shy of 30) to a similar woman. I was a virgin and so was she. What I soon discovered though was that she hated sex and only wanted to have children. When we had sex it was very boring, she was non-participative, and just wanted it to be over as quickly as possible. She just wanted to get pregnant. Once pregnant sex was off to 10 months or more even though she actually tolerated pregnancy pretty well. Oral or hand sex were out. She would not do or receive those things. She was unable to have children after our third was born and not surprisingly she would not have sex anymore.

The last 8 years of our 19 year marriage had absolutely no physical contact. Toward the end she would not dress or undress in my presence or be near me when I did. She took showers with all the lights off in the bathroom. There was a lot of emotional abuse from her and yet I hung on as long as I could both to honor my vows and to support our children. I finally got physical symptoms so severe they thought I had MS and took an MRI of my brain. After 9 months of seeing a neurologist and being tested for all sorts of things he concluded it was all stress. I was put on meds and told I had to get out of that pressure cooker.

I still waited another 5 years and then finally divorced with the full support of my elder board. She though quickly went to work on our children and took them to a very controlling church and convinced them I was a sexual pervert and now it's been 8.5 years and 2 of my children I have not laid eyes on in 4.5 years. The are all over 18 now so I have no court appointed time with them. 2 will not even return emails. They have been lied to and manipulated. My ex had a serious issue with sex. She once (seriously) accused me of showing pornography to our children by watching the movie Spiderman with them. She felt the character of M.J. "dressed like a hooker" and that upside down kiss of spiderman in the rain was x-rated as she believed she could make out the outline of M.J.'s nipples through her sweater.

Trust me the story goes on and I've left out a lot. However you get the idea. I've had a pretty strange life and little contact with women except as friends. My marriage was anything but a God honoring marriage. It has affected me in major ways. maybe not Aspergers but it's been serious. So I do have a lot to overcome.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby seeking perspective » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:47 am

It sounds like you have a lot of healing to do before you should consider remarrying.
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:19 am

seeking perspective wrote:It sounds like you have a lot of healing to do before you should consider remarrying.


Yes perhaps. I am nearly 55 though and despite years and years of counseling nothing much has changed. It's just too deeply ingrained.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby txtwindad » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:28 am

seeking perspective wrote:It sounds like you have a lot of healing to do before you should consider remarrying.


I agree. Please don't marry. At least not in your current situation.

Your comments earlier about married couples in their 50s really not having sex as an important part of their relationship is just not true. Of course there are far too many sexless marriages, but they are not by any means the norm. Those marriages that are sexless are often painful at least for one of the pair.

If you want a friend and companion, have that. If you want a wife, you need time for some serious work and healing.
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby sd595 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:43 am

I see both sides of this. You can't grow yourself into a Godly marriage if you aren't married, and at the same time you may be a very difficult husband for a wife. I'm not going to say don't get married, and I'm not sure some of the work you need to do to grow could happen outside of marriage. What does the woman you are thinking of marrying think about all this? Have you discussed with her the things you have been through and the places you are worried you will fall short and need to grow? How does she feel about that? I am one who believes that if two people focus on Him and are committed to doing right by Him, that they can grow and heal and have something beautiful. Note that this doesn't mean "I'm going to get married, but our plan is just to give up and I'll MB and we'll plan on having a sexless marriages where both parties aren't interested and willing to push themselves to grow." If your attitude is that "I refuse to try to do right", then I do advise don't get married, but if your attitude is "Lord, I know I am broken as we all are and I want to honor you in all that I am. I have struggle here, but I know what I should do as a husband, and I am willing, even if it is difficult for me" then I say try and work hard on growing together. You may not even realize what you have not had and it could be a huge blessing to you both. All of this has to be up front and honest - she can't go into it with an attitude of she isn't going to grow and try either.

I am sorry to hear that your ex wife was so awful to you. I am saddened that she turned your children against you.
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby Leah » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:53 am

sd595, I see what you are saying, but as a 50something, I would not marry a man who valued his alone time more than his wifey time. It is just too big a risk to have the relationship defined in this way. If the attitude was more, "I had a rough go in the first marriage, but I am determined to be intentional in the second," that would be a different thing.
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:15 am

sd595 wrote:What does the woman you are thinking of marrying think about all this?


We have discussed this numerous times. All she asks is that I come to her first when I feel the need (if practical) and be a willing partner when she has a need. I am fine with both of those. Like I told her last night, I truly wish I could enjoy partner sex. I won't quit trying. Sometimes though my body just won't cooperate and frankly I am at a loss. I've had everything checked out physically and I should be fine. My testosterone is nice and high yet I have no libido and even when I MB it is often very hard and sometimes I just have to give up. I don't have ED so drugs like Viagra don't help. I've found some herbal pills that help but they get my heart racing so hard my hands shake and I feel like my heart is going to beat right out of my chest. It's downright scary. Yet any less of a dose does nothing to help me.

So it's complicated. However I can bring her pleasure and that is enough for me. She says she is ok with it not doing anything for me.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby Hiswifeagain » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:00 am

NotYourAverageGuy wrote:So it's complicated. However I can bring her pleasure and that is enough for me. She says she is ok with it not doing anything for me.


This is a great attitude, but seems like a set up for resentment. Seems like you might want to try singleness. Marriage is hard even without sexual difficulties. Going into with that many handicaps seems unwise at best. Sorry for your struggles.
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:30 am

Leah wrote:sd595, I see what you are saying, but as a 50something, I would not marry a man who valued his alone time more than his wifey time. It is just too big a risk to have the relationship defined in this way. If the attitude was more, "I had a rough go in the first marriage, but I am determined to be intentional in the second," that would be a different thing.


I value both. I will always have some separate activities I enjoy as does she. We spend a good amount of time together but also apart. We each support the other in our separate interests. For example, I am a professional photographer as a side job. She has joined me at times and totally supports me but she is not into photography. We both workout but she prefers to do a home routine and does some minor running and bike riding. I workout at a gym and ride. My riding though is much different than hers. I used to race so I do much harder and longer rides than she could do. Once in a while we do something together but 5 miles on her cruiser bike on a bike path is her type of ride. I am going 20-50 miles sometimes with as many as 15 miles of climbing. I do both on and off-road. So we enjoy the things we do together and then have our separate activities.

I am not that social though and do like time alone.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby MotoX » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:45 am

So still don't understand, why do you want to get married?

Not trying to be rude but just wondering why.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:16 pm

Mostly for companionship. I know it may not seem like I want much but I do want some. You might think just having some friends would do but that has not worked well for me. I have moved a number of times and some of my best friends are now out-of-state. I've made some friends here but most are married and have little free time so getting together with them is difficult. Plus a lot of married couples socialize with other couples not single guys. I am NOT a group person. I won't join a club just to be around people. I have to really want to be a part of that club. I don't do men's groups at church or small groups. I like hard core Bible study and most small groups are more about socializing than serious Bible study. So if I am not married I will pretty much be on my own. I've had to take taxis to medical procedures because I had no one to drive me. It's nice to have someone to talk to and be a best friend. Being under the same roof facilitates conversation and life sharing. If they were a friend living somewhere else I would be much less inclined to spend time with them.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby sd595 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:55 pm

NotYourAverageGuy wrote:We have discussed this numerous times. All she asks is that I come to her first when I feel the need (if practical) and be a willing partner when she has a need. I am fine with both of those. Like I told her last night, I truly wish I could enjoy partner sex. I won't quit trying.


I don't see this attitude as bad in any way. You can't make yourself feel what you might or might not, but always being willing and committed to doing the right thing is the right place to be.

NotYourAverageGuy wrote:Sometimes though my body just won't cooperate and frankly I am at a loss. I've had everything checked out physically and I should be fine. My testosterone is nice and high yet I have no libido and even when I MB it is often very hard and sometimes I just have to give up. I don't have ED so drugs like Viagra don't help. I've found some herbal pills that help but they get my heart racing so hard my hands shake and I feel like my heart is going to beat right out of my chest. It's downright scary. Yet any less of a dose does nothing to help me.


A lot of married folks have physical struggles. The difference is that when married, the struggle is both of yours to share and help each other with. If you don't finish, you don't. That doesn't mean you didn't have an important time together despite that. Since you don't have ED, you should have all options available to please her.

You may find that your past has you so frustrated that you don't see partnered sex as a blessing and you need to rewire yourself. IMHO marriage with a Godly wife could help you with this.

The bottom line at least in my way of thinking is do you both know what the bible says about marriage. Do you agree on what it says. Are you both willing to do what it says, even when it is not easy. If you have all that and put the Lord first in your lives, then great. Paul had a lot to say and early on he thought Jesus was coming back much sooner and I think some of his advice was biased to that thought. I don't argue against what he is saying when he says it is better to marry than to burn with passion, but I don't take that as the only valid reason to get married either, though it is a core one. If you both have the right heart towards each other and are willing to meet the responsibilities that scripture sets even if you aren't always feeling it, I think that is fine. If you connect every 2 weeks and you are both happy then that is your choice. That is just my thinking, others may feel stronger about it. Whatever you choose, I hope it is a blessing to you and her and that He blesses you both.
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby Nvr2Late » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:05 pm

I can see wanting to be married mostly for companionship's sake. Although I could not be happy in a mutually-sexless-by-consent-marriage, I suppose some can be. I sort of agree with most of what sd595 has pointed out.

Still, my advice would be to seriously, thoughtfully and deeply explore this with your fiance and with a caring professional. I can't help but feel that what you are describing is "settling" for so much less than God intended for marriage. "Roommates with occasional benefits". I also asked myself several times before posting, "why do you even want to marry?"

I wouldn't rush into marriage under the circumstances you have divulged, because I don't think lack of libido is likely to be your biggest issue in the long run. Given your dysfunctional upbringing and abusive previous marriage, sex is the least of your worries. If I'm reading you right, you are by nature a loner. You are by all rights, damaged by what you experienced in your previous marriage. Marriage is hard work under the best of circumstances. I wonder what the crucible of marriage might stir up in you? Are you both prepared to deal with that possibility?

I've had to take taxis to medical procedures because I had no one to drive me. It's nice to have someone to talk to and be a best friend. Being under the same roof facilitates conversation and life sharing. If they were a friend living somewhere else I would be much less inclined to spend time with them.


This puzzles me somewhat. Even if it were this woman friend? Would it be possible for you to live near one another such as in the same street or apartment building?

You know, we tend to agree to things in the light of a dating relationship that we find onerous in the practical working out of day to day married life. The fact is, people change, their needs change, their hormone levels change. What your fiancee might consider acceptable now, might be misery later in the actual living out of it.

Just throwing some random thoughts out there for your consideration.
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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:51 am

Thank you for your thoughts! Much appreciated.

I have not given up on partner sex. Should we marry I intend to truly try and learn to enjoy it. I would always be available for her. I would love to be able to enjoy sex.

As for emotional intimacy that is a tougher one. I might suggest we remain friends for a longer period of time and see how things go. I don't want her to settle. I hope I can grow and heal during that time but regardless time will help bring clarity.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby IM_a_Farmwife » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:24 pm

NotYourAverageGuy wrote:I would love to be able to enjoy sex.


What are you willing to do to get there? Perhaps counseling would help you right now?

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby NotYourAverageGuy » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:59 pm

I have been in counseling weekly for nearly 2 years now with a Christian counselor who also does a lot of sex counseling. I really like her and think she is very good but nothing she has tried with me has helped much and she is not the first counselor I've seen. She now feels that a lot of my personality is the way it is and is not going to change. She's tried to help on the sex end but there are obviously limitations when you are not yet married. I might ask her about my fiance coming with me and doing something as a couple.

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Re: Don't Enjoy Sex

Postby Bear » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:14 pm

NotYourAverageGuy wrote:She's tried to help on the sex end but there are obviously limitations when you are not yet married. I might ask her about my fiance coming with me and doing something as a couple.


THAT is a great idea! Your counselor knows you well, it's a perfect arena to get all your concerns on the table WITH your FW. It gives you both, but especially her, a chance to process the possible future together with solid third party input.

Another thought: would your FW consider joining us here on TMB?
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