Ken Nair's Books

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Ken Nair's Books

Postby KyWildcat » Wed May 10, 2006 9:51 am

I'm not sure I should be posting this in this forum on the board b/c I'm not sure the word "good" should be used in describing Mr. Nair's books. I've heard some pretty bad reviews but wanted to ask here to see if anyone had read Discovering The Mind Of A Woman and what you thought of it.

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KW
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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby The Duece » Wed May 10, 2006 10:02 am

KyWildcat wrote:I'm not sure I should be posting this in this forum on the board b/c I'm not sure the word "good" should be used in describing Mr. Nair's books.<snip>


You are right it should NOT be part of any list that included the words "good" and "book" in any kind of close proximity to one another. It is part of the whole matriarchial cult idea. It suggests that all the problems that can be and ever are part of any marriage are the fault of the male in the relationship in one way or another. It teaches that if a man will just get a better understanding of a woman's mind, everything will be fine. What it fails to do is recognize that women, just like men are fallen sinful creatures and capable of the same class of depravity observed in the male half of the species. It places the goodness of a woman's heart up on a pedestal next to God.
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Postby KyWildcat » Wed May 10, 2006 10:38 am

Found a review.

KW

[Edited to fix link to book review.]
Last edited by KyWildcat on Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Duece » Wed May 10, 2006 11:39 am

KyWildcat wrote:Found a review.

KW


An excellent review. It really is good to see a well notated treatment.
Thanx,
The Duece
John 13:35 - By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

honandint

Postby honandint » Thu May 11, 2006 2:15 am

Oh, yes. The old "assume everything is the man's fault" story. I stopped reading when I got to the part where he uses I Cor 7 to justify a woman saying "I have authority over your body, and therefore I can say you will not have sex with me". Pfffffft!

jedevane

Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby jedevane » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:52 am

I have read the book. I also spent 3 years in a discipleship program Ken Nair helped create designed to help Christian men become more Christlike. This is the key to a better marriage. It is a key to a being a better parent and everything else. The program uses the Bible as authority and nothing else. When I first started the program there were nearly 50 people. At the end, less than 15. While the emphasis is on men being Godly leaders, the program never lifts a women's goodness on a pedestal, as a previous post stated. Nor is it ever taught that the man is 100% at fault for issues in the marriage. What is taught is that God has called men to a position of leadership in the marriage. That is God's design, but it is hard to accept because our flesh wants to make excuses and blame others. Men are called to be the leaders in the marriage, we are therefore responsible. The President may not do or even have knowledge of everything in his administration, but he is ultimately responsible. The same is true of the husband in a marraige. The woman is created to respond. A wife responds to her husband and his leadership. It is never taught that the wife is perfect and never sins. Only that she will respond to his leadership. Leadership in the flesh disguised as holy will result in a fleshly wife. To say this is a non biblical or twisted teaching is to also say that men such as J Vernon McGee and H.A. Ironsides are wrong because they taught the same thing. Husbands are the leaders and the wife responds.

I was basically a good religious person until God convicted me of my true sinfulness at the age of 23. I was a good kid, a virgin, and never got drunk or did drugs. I was also sinful and it took the Holy Spirit's convicting to help me see my need for Christ despite my self percieved goodness. After 11 years of marriage I knew I was not happy, but mostly blamed my wife for not submitting the way I wanted. It took the Holy Spirit to convict me of my sinfulness again, despite my self percieved goodness. I married as a virgin, never strayed, never got drunk or gambled, stayed home and helped with the kids. I thought I was a good husband, and by most standards, I was. By God's standards I was not. I stopped blaming my wife, took responsibility, and learned how to recognize my flesh. My wife now brags I am a totally different man than I was 5 years ago. I had to swollow a lot of pride, but I am more a man now than I ever was before when I assumed leadership meant telling my wife that I was the boss and we are doing things my way. I think 1 Cor. 7 is often misused by men. I know I did. It took the Holy Spirit to reveal to me that if my wife didn't have the freedom to say no, then when she did say yes, it wouldn't mean a thing. Doesn't Christ give us the same freedom to choose? Isn't that how Christ loves us? As a man, should I not love my wife as Christ loved the Church?

The honest truth is I occasionally found certain verses where I disagreed here and there, but the overall philosophy and teachings of the book and discipleship program are biblically strong. As a spritually gifted teacher, I wanted to use every mistake to justify quitting or attack just as some of these previous posts did, but I am so grateful I didn't quit. God used Ken Nair to convict me and change my life when I was finally willing to surrender to God and stop listening to my flesh. http://www.lifepartners.org

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby KyWildcat » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:33 am

jedevane wrote:This is the key to a better marriage. It is a key to a being a better parent and everything else.

Whenever I see these types of recommendations about a book other than Holy Scripture itself I immediately wonder what the poster is selling.

I have no doubt that Ken Nair's books have helped depraved husbands to return to their good willed wives. The problem I have with Mr. Nair's books and those of his ilk is that they totally ignore the flip side and that is that scripture teaches that women can be as equally depraved while having good-willed husbands. I have even seen the book used on boards like this one to justify the depravity of wives b/c if their husbands would just be more Christ-like then they would be as well. Horse hockey.

Anyone who claims that 100% of the problems in 100% of marriages belong to the men is 100% wrong and has a poor understanding of scripture to the point at which I wonder if they can even read.

$0.02 from someone that hasn't read the book.

KW
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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby KyWildcat » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:59 am

jedevane wrote:Nor is it ever taught that the man is 100% at fault for issues in the marriage.
...
The President may not do or even have knowledge of everything in his administration, but he is ultimately responsible. The same is true of the husband in a marraige.
...
The woman is created to respond. A wife responds to her husband and his leadership.
...
Only that she will respond to his leadership.
...
Leadership in the flesh disguised as holy will result in a fleshly wife.

Seems to me you're having it both ways.

The man isn't 100% at fault for the issues he's just 100% responsible because his wife is an auto-ma-bot that can do nothing but respond to his leadership.

jedevane wrote:To say this is a non biblical or twisted teaching is to also say that men such as J Vernon McGee and H.A. Ironsides are wrong because they taught the same thing. Husbands are the leaders and the wife responds.

I think you aren't understanding the difference between scriptural servant leadership vs husbands leading and wives only responding to his leadership.

If anyone teaches something that wasn't Biblical, like what Ken Nair teaches, then I'm going to say so regardless of who they were or are.

jedevane wrote:I was basically a good religious person until God convicted me of my true sinfulness at the age of 23. I was a good kid, a virgin, and never got drunk or did drugs. I was also sinful and it took the Holy Spirit's convicting to help me see my need for Christ despite my self percieved goodness. After 11 years of marriage I knew I was not happy, but mostly blamed my wife for not submitting the way I wanted. It took the Holy Spirit to convict me of my sinfulness again, despite my self percieved goodness. I married as a virgin, never strayed, never got drunk or gambled, stayed home and helped with the kids. I thought I was a good husband, and by most standards, I was. By God's standards I was not. I stopped blaming my wife, took responsibility, and learned how to recognize my flesh. My wife now brags I am a totally different man than I was 5 years ago. I had to swollow a lot of pride, but I am more a man now than I ever was before when I assumed leadership meant telling my wife that I was the boss and we are doing things my way. I think 1 Cor. 7 is often misused by men. I know I did. It took the Holy Spirit to reveal to me that if my wife didn't have the freedom to say no, then when she did say yes, it wouldn't mean a thing. Doesn't Christ give us the same freedom to choose? Isn't that how Christ loves us? As a man, should I not love my wife as Christ loved the Church?

So you were an immature selfish person and you matured and learned that you wife was a more mature and less selfish than you already and you finally caught up with her.

Glad it worked out for you and thank God you were married to an unselfish mature wife. The problem is, not everyone has a unselfish mature wife.

jedevane wrote:The honest truth is I occasionally found certain verses where I disagreed here and there, but the overall philosophy and teachings of the book and discipleship program are biblically strong. As a spritually gifted teacher, I wanted to use every mistake to justify quitting or attack just as some of these previous posts did, but I am so grateful I didn't quit. God used Ken Nair to convict me and change my life when I was finally willing to surrender to God and stop listening to my flesh.

I am truly glad it worked out for you and your wife.

Here's the thing though. Not every husband is a immature as you and not every wife is a mature as your wife was.

You are making the same mistake that the review claims Nair makes. You wrongly believe that every marriage is just like your own and that what fixed your marriage will fix everyone's.

You are mistaken and if you stay around for more than just this one post you may find that out. I doubt we'll hear much more though.
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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby notaugustine » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:36 pm

jedevane wrote:I have read the book. I also spent 3 years in a discipleship program Ken Nair helped create designed to help Christian men become more Christlike. This is the key to a better marriage. It is a key to a being a better parent and everything else. The program uses the Bible as authority and nothing else.

Nair uses part of the bible as a substantiation for his program. There are some very questionable interpretations that he holds on some verses (to say the least). Nevertheless, Nair takes clear aim at the husband and the entire ministry of lifepartner is about improving the character and Christlikenes s of the husband. Nair, nor anyone else at lifepartners for that matter, address the responsibilities or contributions to the marriage of the wife. For all intents and purposes, the health of the marriage is a function of the character of the husband. If the husband is Christlike, the wife will respond in kind and the marriage will be wonderful. If the character of the husband is fleshly, the wife will respond in kind and the marriage will be problematic. Ultimately, what I find interesting is that Nair makes the husband more responsible for the character and well being of his wife than he would theologically place on Christ for the well being and character of the church.
Just read through the blog at Lifepartners and you will get a feel for how it goes.
The husband's responsibility is to become more Christlike by heeding the concerns of his wife concerning his character.
The wife's responsibility is to help her husband become more Christlike by vocalizing her concerns to her husband.
If the marriage is suffering it is because the husband is sinful.
If the husband is acting sinfully it is because he is a sinner.
If the wife is acting sinfully it is because she is hurt, her sinful husband has wounded her heart.
The wife might be a sinner too, but nobody talks about it and for all intents and purposes, it is purely theoretical point that isn't to find its way into any practical discussion about the wife's behavior in the marriage whatsoever.
Ultimately then, the admonition of Christ to "get the log out of your own eye" is applied only to the husband while the wife is encouraged to continue to look at the speck in her husband's eye.

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby jokerman » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:23 pm

Note to self: Don't buy the Ken Nair books.

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby Leah » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:25 pm

And there, in a nutshell, is why I have called much of the Christian writing about sex and marriage false teaching.

I have no problem telling a Christian s/he is 100% responsible to be the best s/he can be. That's what the Bible teaches. But it is wrong to make one Christian 100% at fault because there are problems his/her relationships.

Good to see you notaugustine. :wave Don't make yourself such a stranger.
Leah

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby plainsofabraham » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:25 pm

since the link posted by KyW has expired, and this thread is resurrected, I found what should be that review.
http://www.svchapel.org/resources/book-reviews/13-family/393-discovering-the-mind-of-a-woman-by-ken-nair

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby notaugustine » Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:47 pm

Leah in Mid-South wrote:And there, in a nutshell, is why I have called much of the Christian writing about sex and marriage false teaching.

I have no problem telling a Christian s/he is 100% responsible to be the best s/he can be. That's what the Bible teaches. But it is wrong to make one Christian 100% at fault because there are problems his/her relationships.

Good to see you notaugustine. :wave Don't make yourself such a stranger.


Thanks.

Good to hear from you as well.

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby Seekryt » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:32 pm

So is this guy like Mark Driscoll? I can't open that review for some reason.
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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby boonies » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:46 pm

hey gang...great to see the disinfectant of sunlight being shone on this guy's "work"...here is a review of the book from a guy on Amazon.com calling himself "St Dubricius"....said commentator claims he personally heard Nair @ a seminar say "I just dont like men" Hmmmm. He also points out Nair had NO men in his life as he grew up, only mom and sis and so on. Could be a reason for his twisted view of human nature....enjoy!

"Though much of Nair's books contain good scriptural truth, he does not "declare unto you all the counsel of God." I have attended his seminar and his counsel is one-sided and his viewpoint of women is condescending, unrealistic, and unBiblical.

1. By implication, Ken teaches the only reason wives sin is because their husbands are not being Christlike.

2. In his books and presentations, Ken freely applies Scripture to the responsibilities of husbands, but does not apply them to wives or even address their Biblical responsibilities except to teach the only job a wife has is to berate the husband when he is not being Christlike.

3. Ken condemns husbands for their sins, but allows wives to freely indulge in those sins:

Ken says that women "are the historians of the family and always remember past offenses." Even though in 1 Corinthians 13:5 reliable translations tell us that true love does not keep a record of wrongs, Ken encourages wives to do the exact opposite.

Ken says, "outbursts of anger are the only way women can get men to listen," and yet, Ken encourages such anger ignoring James 1:20 and Ephesians 4:31-32 that such behavior is sin.

One walks away from Ken's books and seminars wondering if women are truly capable of sin unless their wayward husbands drive them to it.

4. Worse of all, Ken is guilty of only quoting partial verses. 1 Peter 3:7 says, "You husbands likewise, live with your wives in an understanding way, *as with a weaker vessel, since she is a woman; and grant her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.* The section between the asterisks is omitted from Ken's workbooks and presentations changing the emphasis of the verse. This is not the only verse Ken only partially quotes.

5. Ken knows he stands on shaky ground and manipulates those who question him by accusing them of being carnal and "fleshly."

The bottom line is that Ken is correct when he instructs Christian husbands "ought to love their wives as their own bodies." However, he does everybody a grave disservice when he fails to instruct a wife to "respect her husband."

Those struggling in dysfunctional marriages will do better with certified Christian marriage counselors or the writings of James Dobson or other qualified Christian counselors, but I cannot with clear conscience recommend Ken's books and his expensive seminar and his very costly, three-year-long discipleship course."

PS My wife read 1\2 of the book and said with a puzzled look "what's WRONG with this guy?" and hadnt even reached the part where women dont form independent thoughts as much as react to her mate, Stepford like.

plainsofabraham

Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby plainsofabraham » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:35 am

Thanks Boonies. I think guys like Nair do a great disservice to marriages.
boonies, quoting online reviewer wrote:4. Worse of all, Ken is guilty of only quoting partial verses. 1 Peter 3:7 says, "You husbands likewise, live with your wives in an understanding way, *as with a weaker vessel, since she is a woman; and grant her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.* The section between the asterisks is omitted from Ken's workbooks and presentations changing the emphasis of the verse. This is not the only verse Ken only partially quotes.

What I am wondering about this here is, how does skipping part B of this verse affect Nair's application? To me, it only really reinforces what he has to say.

A lot of these guys have a measure of truth in their teaching. That can't be denied. It is whether there is enough truth to outweigh the bunk, and if the bottom line premise is built on real truth.

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby The Duece » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:46 pm

I haven't been on the boards in FOREVER, but I happened back by today and found this thing was brewing again.
It appears that a thorough job has already been done of speaking to the falsity of the teachings in question. I'll only add that for EVERY story offered of how wonderfully these teachings have proven to be the salvation of a marriage in trouble, there are several marriages that haves been destroyed by the very same precepts. This fact was alluded to by the PRO KN poster when he told us of how many people started the course relative to the number that managed to finish the program.
There is poison in this well brethren. DO NOT DRINK IT!
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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby Leah » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:50 pm

The Duece wrote:I haven't been on the boards in FOREVER,


How wonderful to see you! How are you doing?
Leah

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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby Mark 9:24 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:58 am

jokerman wrote:Note to self: Don't buy the Ken Nair books.


Ditto.
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Re: Ken Nair's Books

Postby danman » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:28 pm

The old idiom.......COP OUT!

Let me clear up all the smoke in here. A friend sent me a link to this site and I feel a reply is needed:

Simple--------> 100% of the spiritual condition in the home.................NOT---NOT----NOT----NOT----NOT NOT NOT FAULT!!! Thus the use of the word "Cop out"

That is what Ken is saying. We also spent much time with him and the staff.....So I do know what I am saying. There are some things I do not agree with this is not one of them.

Nice avoidance though....u know popping with the convenient phrase, "oh it's all the mans FAULT again" lets all blame the man...............rather we should look in the mirror (our wife) and take a good look @ what is going on.

It may not be your "fault", but, and, or, never the less the spiritual condition in the home is still on your/our/mans shoulders......not the woman. Never in the Bible is the woman instructed to Love the man...only the man is instructed to love the vessel that is not as strong. Like 1Pet says.....to live with her in an understanding way so your prayers will not be hindered.

100% of spiritual condition........ not fault!!!!


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