Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

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Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Redsman » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:45 pm


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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Job29Man » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:38 pm

Pretty much on the mark in our house.
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Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Husband_In_Training » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:34 pm

"We believe that sex is a beautiful, God-given desire that can bring a husband and wife together in oneness. We also believe sex is a thermometer that measures the depth of the relationship—its presence or absence often indicates the level of commitment and intimacy in other areas of your marriage."

Wow - This is a pretty depressing statement for some of us...


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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Job29Man » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:12 am

My Sarah says "Sex in marriage is like the canary in the coal mine. If the canary stops singing, check for problems fast! If the canary dies, so does the marriage."
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.

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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Redsman » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:33 am

"We believe that sex is a beautiful, God-given desire that can bring a husband and wife together in oneness. We also believe sex is a thermometer that measures the depth of the relationship—its presence or absence often indicates the level of commitment and intimacy in other areas of your marriage."

The last sentence about it being a thermometer is so true. If sex is the glue, the stuff that holds marriage together, then wouldn't you want sex often so that the glue always holds? Glue can actually loosen over time, so reapplication is necessary. And I would hope that it would be a joy to reglue.

Red and I have seen a sex-less marriage. I've seen people living as roommates that had more joy on their faces than those in a sex-less marriage.

The website has a place for their top marriage articles. All articles are worth the read.

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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby tjw » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:22 am

Many wives express that they are offended because their husbands are such sexual creatures.


And, I have to admit that I am offended that she is such a relational and familial creature. She only wants the material and emotional security I provide.

I'm not really a part of her family. She doesn't admire nor respect me. She only wants the material and emotional security I provide.
She wants to spend time with her family, and wants me there when she does. But she doesn't want to be alone with me.

She feels that she is a "sex object", I feel that I am a "money object".

The only thing I can't figure out is this: Why, when she visits her family, does she want me to go there? What purpose do I serve there?
It certainly is not that I'm some kind of "trophy" or "showpiece", by how she talks to me, I would think that she'd be downright ashamed to be seen with me.

It's really odd that I feel valued, admired, and respected more by her family than by her. I guess they see my virtues more than my faults, I sure
wish she did.

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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Husband_In_Training » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:06 am

Job29Man wrote:If the canary stops singing, check for problems fast! If the canary dies, so does the marriage."


I really struggle with the "sex is dead, so your marriage is dead" talk. I am required to love my wife as Christ loved the Church per a covenant before God that includes "...for better or for worse...". There are times in every marriage where things are "for worse". When sex is gone it's a particularly painful "worse".

As others have mentioned, as a man we're expected to provide in every way. emotionally, financially, spiritually ... plus be a good father, neighbor, leader, etc. but sex gets to be optional. Unfortunately there is no out clause for a sexless marriage.

Marriage can be a contentious battle or a loving partnership. Once a sex battle becomes part of the agenda, the loving part gets really tough. So we have to make a choice - forget about sex, or be in an angry bitter relationship. How to manage this dynamic is the question where we need help...

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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:03 am

HIT, I agree with you. I have compared marriage to the covenant God made with us.... just because one area in life is a struggle, doesn't nullify that covenant and we are no longer sons.

HIT, this I know, even if nothing seems to change on this earth, God is watching and sees, and you will have your reward in heaven. I also know from my own experience, if a day comes when your wife's eyes are opened, your committed love will humble her. She who is forgiven much, loves much.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Job29Man » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:29 am

Husband_In_Training wrote:As others have mentioned, as a man we're expected to provide in every way. emotionally, financially, spiritually ... plus be a good father, neighbor, leader, etc. but sex gets to be optional. Unfortunately there is no out clause for a sexless marriage.

I understand what you are saying. I've been pondering this question for a few years now, namely "Is 'deliberate sexual refusal * ' within the spirit of the Bible's 'divorce allowed for sexual immorality exception clause' in Matthew 19?'

At first I was pretty convinced that "No. Sexual refusal is NOT included in sexual immorality."

The more I live life, talk with people, counsel, study ... I'm less sure. I think I'm moving over to the opinion that 'deliberate sexual refusal* ' is indeed grounds for divorce. I'm not convinced yet, but moving that direction. Jesus focused on the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law (yes, I know this is not "law" we are discussing. But the principle holds true in this case, I think). It 'seems' to me that a spouse who says

"I could have sex with you. It's just that I choose not to"

is basically saying (in spirit)

"In the practical sense, I now divorce you. But I refuse to do the legal paperwork, because I want to trap you into a platonic relationship that is NOT marriage, but that serves my wants. I have no regard for you. I don't want to be a wife (or husband) to you. And I don't want you to be fully a husband (or wife) to me. Rather, I want you to be my unwilling servant until death do us part, and I am willing to use clever manipulation of the Scriptures and the law to make it so."

Husband_In_Training wrote:Marriage can be a contentious battle or a loving partnership. Once a sex battle becomes part of the agenda, the loving part gets really tough. So we have to make a choice - forget about sex, or be in an angry bitter relationship. How to manage this dynamic is the question where we need help...


Yes. Sorrowfully, I understand, and agree. But when one spouse murders the core of the marriage, and insists on propping up the corpse, like a mummy tied to a chair at the dinner table, then I'm starting to be persuaded that the refusing spouse has already initiated the divorce in his/her heart. He/she is showing the fruit of an unbeliever (by their fruit you shall know them), and has already "left the marriage" and you should "let him/her depart" you "are not bound."

Coming to this conclusion brings me no satisfaction, more like sorrow. But it does begin to give me more understanding and peace about difficult actions some people take to some horrible situations.

[ * "deliberate sexual refusal" : In my humble opinion and thinking it looks like this ... Spouse could have sex but chooses not to. Or spouse has a "physical ailment or limitation" that presently restricts or prevents sex but chooses not to aggressively and sincerely pursue treatment and healing for it. Or spouse has emotional or mental problem/issue, and is able to seek help, but deliberately chooses not to aggressively and sincerely pursue counseling/treatment/healing. Or spouse was truly wronged by spouse, and chooses to remain in marriage anyway, but chooses to not forgive offending but repentant spouse forever (long past a reasonable time of "rebuilding trust" etc), and holds the offense over his/her head as the reason for refusing sex. I am NOT talking about a spouse who protects him/herself from an abusive or otherwise controlling or severely neglectful etc spouse. where temporarily abstaining from sex is a self-protection thing.]
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.

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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Unfulfilled » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:54 am

Husband_In_Training wrote:As others have mentioned, as a man we're expected to provide in every way. emotionally, financially, spiritually ... plus be a good father, neighbor, leader, etc. but sex gets to be optional. Unfortunately there is no out clause for a sexless marriage.

Marriage can be a contentious battle or a loving partnership. Once a sex battle becomes part of the agenda, the loving part gets really tough. So we have to make a choice - forget about sex, or be in an angry bitter relationship. How to manage this dynamic is the question where we need help...

Lots in this post.

The thing that bristles me a bit is the statement that we make a choice between forgetting about sex or be angry and bitter.

NO, there is another choice. The spouse who is negative about sex and TMB can grow and change. And heal the divide and send anger and bitterness to the dust heap of history.

The problem is that the refused spouse has only limited ability to influence the negative spouse. They cannot change their spouse, the negative spouse must CHOOSE to take on the effort and hard work to change. If they do not or will not make this choice, resist or avoid making that choice for themselves, the other spouse has no real choice. They are thrust into a prison of their own making. And they then have to choose as HIT said; between learning to love the prison they are in, with all the positive accommodations and environment and "forget" the fact they are in prison, or be bitter and angry that they are in fact in a prison of those own action (marriage) and they are there for life.

This life sentence can be completely lifted and the spouse sent free and the marriage to thrive. All it takes is a decision on the part of the spouse who is negative about sex to change.

Let us not forget however, that it is entirely possible that the person who feels like a prisoner, may have committed a wrong, that is a root cause of their own "punishment ". That they themselves caused the hurt to their spouse that created the wall between them. And if that is the case, communication and repentance and sincere apologies and confession of those wrongs is required before healing can begin.

In either case, confronting the root sin and sincere repentance and confession to their spouse is the starting point. And in either case it is a CHOICE by the spouse to initiate the healing. And have the courage and willingness to work and change. If that doesn't occur, then the cycle of darkness will continue to prevail.

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Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Husband_In_Training » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:54 am

I'm not necessarily taking about outright refusal per se, but more of a general indifference. "15 minutes of sex once or twice a month is all I can handle" sort of thing. A crumb vs. a meal isn't enough to sustain a person long-term.

Job - I understand your viewpoint on total refusal. Yes some people do deal with absolute refusal, but the bulk of us are actually dealing with an anemic marriage with sporadic and infrequent sex. It still leaves the massive hole of loneliness, self-worth, abandonment. Even if the sex is mutually desirable at the time, a trickle of sex on the rare occasion doesn't fill the gas tank - and just leaves us unfulfilled and lonely.

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Re: Article: How Do Men and Women Differ in How they View Sex?

Postby Job29Man » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:37 am

Husband_In_Training wrote:I'm not necessarily taking about outright refusal per se, but more of a general indifference. "15 minutes of sex once or twice a month is all I can handle" sort of thing. A crumb vs. a meal isn't enough to sustain a person long-term.


HIT,

Yup, I understand. Allow me a little rant please, not directed at you, but as much to talk this thing out of my own heart as anything else?

I believe that under some circumstances this is pretty much the same thing as an outright "refusal" marriage.

Consider the spouse who asks himself/herself the question "What is the absolute minimum I can grudgingly give to be able to say that 'technically' I am not a refuser? What is the absolute minimum I can do to check-off the sex box, withhold as much as I can get away with so as to insure that I don't give grounds for divorce?"

Is this not essentially the same kind of controlling manipulation of the "deliberately refusing" spouse?
Is this not essentially a "letter-of-the-law obedience but your heart is far from me" kind of hypocrisy that is a white-washed tomb full of dead men's bones?

Frankly I'm sick of hearing about manipulators who trickle out sexual favors in order to keep a suffering spouse "on the hook." I'm sick of hearing about these cats who torture the mouse by letting it go, only to pounce again and bat it up against the wall with their paw to daze the mouse and keep it stumbling in circles... these cats with the smug attitude of "Ain't I a good cat? See? I didn't kill the mouse!"

I'm increasingly coming to the position that "you are either in this marriage with your heart, mind, soul and body, or you are out of it. Stop playing manipulative games. Make your choice." The spouse who doesn't actually kill the marriage, but simply waterboards it and makes it want to die is in some ways worse than the total refuser.

God allowed for divorce due to hard hearts, but increasingly I'm thinking the hard-heart He is referring to is the neglectful spouse's hard heart, not the sincere spouse trying to make the marriage work but who has come to the end of his/her rope.

[Caveat: Yes, I understand "It's not always that simple." Yes, I understand "It takes two to tango." yada yada yada. There is no formula. I'm talking about principles here. ]

[/rant]

Sidenote: I bless Sarah's name every day for being a wife who is not a manipulator, and who really cares about truth. She keeps my bed warm and my heart filled, even through the ups and downs of our lives. But that is not supposed to be an extraordinary thing. It is the kind of discipleship and servanthood taught by the Bible for all Christian marriages.
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.


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