Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

What marriage resources have been helpful or encouraging to you?
User avatar
poetess
Under the stars
Posts: 3129
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:47 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): October 8th, 2011
Gender: Female

Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby poetess » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:14 am

Good encouragement here: http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/03/res ... -marriage/

On the other side of the coin, yesterday I spent a couple of hours watching two documentary-type shows on the lives of teenage parents (a very close friend has a pregnant daughter), including this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMhs7uaDDCY Virtually nothing is said about marriage--in the two shows I watched, one couple ended up marrying and just one or two parents of the girls were themselves married. But there is no hint of a moral problem with teenagers having sex outside of marriage, just the need to avoid having children until "finished with school." The show was set in England, and thus seems like a good hint of where our own nonchalance about fornication is headed. Some of these young parents look like good parents and responsible partners in terms of caring for each other; it just is all totally divorced from marriage, with 14-year-olds randomly deciding they want to have a baby now, and mothers who were 16 when they had their own first child lamenting that her own daughter didn't finish school first.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

User avatar
OldMarriedLady
Under the stars
Posts: 5381
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:01 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): May 7th, 1983
Gender: Female

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby OldMarriedLady » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:57 am

My sister has lived in England for the last 20 years, and that attitude towards unmarried sex and unmarried childbearing has been in place that long, if not longer. It's really sad.
"When you love them, they drive you crazy - because they know they can."
(From the 1987 movie "Moonstruck", written by John Patrick Shanley)

User avatar
VikingJ
Hammock
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:42 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): July 10th, 1996
Gender: Male
Location: Norhtern Europe

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby VikingJ » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:27 am

I live in another even more liberal European country and I remember from high school (more than 30 years back) that we where surprised when we learned that teenagers get pregnant on purpose.
Sexual relations between early teens where common when I grew up but everyone new how protect themselves and where doing that.
Here people live together for years but when they decide to have kids most get married.
Sadly that’s a pretty common attitude even among “Christians”.
I think I was one of a small minority in my youth group who waited until I got married.


Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

neilethere
King bed
Posts: 748
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:27 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): March 18th, 2000
Gender: Male
Location: The land down under ...... where women glow and men ppplllllunder

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby neilethere » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:42 pm

Interesting topic - coming from someone who has just returned from his eldest daughters wedding so I now have 1 married, 4 cohabiting, 1 unwed mother and 1 school aged child.

I found this report interesting https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1123322/

poetess wrote:The show was set in England, and thus seems like a good hint of where our own nonchalance about fornication is headed.


If the US has the highest rate of underage conception in the developed world I would suggest the nonchalance is already set and demonstrated. In saying that, I recognise the report is quite old and that the figures in the US have been dropping due to increased education and availability of birth control for teens (dependent on the flavour of your Government). Like I said, interesting topic.

User avatar
MayDayGirl
Hammock
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:54 pm
Location: The Burbs

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby MayDayGirl » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:04 am

As the ncbi report states, it's not that teens are having more sex in the US and England than in other countries, it's the embarrassment of obtaining contraceptives combined with the lack of education. I still notice how drugstores put their condoms right in front of the pharmacist's window so that a customer never has any privacy in looking/comparing brands, etc. Plus, condoms aren't cheap, and teens don't have the foresight to realize they're still cheaper than having a baby. I think for those who have had any sort of religious background the idea that, 'If I don't plan for having sex, I'm not sinning on purpose' plays heavily as well.

A new series began on TLC last night about teen pregnancy called, 'Unexpected.' I only watched the first part, but one family showed 3 generations of teen moms (15 yr old pregnant was youngest) sitting on the sofa, illustrating the cycle. And then the 15 year old says, "I didn't know it would be so easy to get pregnant." Crazy. :roll:

User avatar
poetess
Under the stars
Posts: 3129
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:47 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): October 8th, 2011
Gender: Female

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby poetess » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:30 am

Interesting to hear the personal experiences of others on here. I once lived in a poor neighborhood for a few years where having babies as teens was more the norm than otherwise, and a friend of mine (two or three years shy of 30 at the time) moved to the South and was stunned to meet a woman her own age who was already a grandmother. So it is definitely a factor in the US, and a growing one (no longer confined to inner cities and ethnic minorities).

My concern wasn't at all in whether or not teens are aware of birth-control options, though. (BTW, I think condoms are kept close to the pharmacy because they are a high-theft item--easy to stick in a purse and of interest to teenagers, and probably also because they're an embarrassing purchase and thus it's tempting to steal them instead.) I think that teens who are encouraged in use of condoms are actually at far greater risk: their risk of pregnancy is not greatly reduced (user error, breakage, and failure to use them at all in the heat of the moment), their risk of STDs is not greatly reduced (they don't offer protection against several STDs, and they don't offer protection against any of them if they break--would you have sex with a person you knew to be infected with HIV with only a condom between you?!), but most importantly condoms do nothing at all to protect against a broken heart or against the sinfulness of sex outside of marriage.

My concern was that when we ignore the clear link between sex and marriage, and for that matter between sex and childbearing, and when we shrug at teenagers and adults having sex outside of marriage as long as they don't get pregnant, this is really the inevitable result. Getting pregnant isn't the problem; it never was. Pregnancy is supposed to be a natural result of a sexual union. But sex is supposed to be a bonding action between married people. In that union, pregnancy is a happy result of sex, even if the timing isn't the couple's first choice. But when we say it's OK for 14-year-olds to have sex (as long as they don't have babies) and OK for 25-year-olds to live together and have babies together without being married, it's a little crazy to be shocked when those same 14-year-olds choose to have babies. If they needn't wait for marriage to have sex or to make babies, it's pretty random to say they should wait to "finish their education" before having babies (especially if you want them to get a higher degree before that education is considered "finished"). If that 14-year-old who wanted a baby had been the daughter of happily married parents, and had she talked with them about her desire rather than talking to her boyfriend . . . things could have been much different if her parents had said, "This is a good desire, and you are a mature young lady. Tell you what--if you are still with this boyfriend at 16, we will support you two marrying. You need to abstain from sex between now and then, and we'll find ways to help you do that. But if you are still sure in two years that you want to be with this young man and have his children, we will support your marriage and help pay for your wedding." But culture would attack such a family, generally, because there is more support for children having sex at 14 than there is for kids getting married at 16.

I myself would have happily had a baby at 14 or 15. It was the knowledge that sex belongs in marriage and that children need married parents that kept me from even considering such a thing. Take away any sense of the morality of the thing and I would have happily made that choice.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

User avatar
MayDayGirl
Hammock
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:54 pm
Location: The Burbs

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby MayDayGirl » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:39 am

Poetess, I'm surprised that you would say you would have been happy to have a baby at 14 or 15. Why? That was the furthest thing from my mind at that age. I was busy doing 14 year old things (reading books, studying/homework, hanging with friends), not thinking about grown up things like motherhood. I've always thought that teens who want to have a baby have something missing from their lives; usually they are seeking the love they do not receive from parents. It is not surprising that a girl who doesn't have a father in her life, such as the ones in these shows, would want to have a baby to love.

I don't think it's random for a parent to say they wish their child finished school. Without a high school education, I'm not sure what future one has, besides welfare? Pregnancy IS a problem because you've got children raising children, and as I previously said, it's just a vicious cycle in some of these families.

I don't think most of us here are ignoring the link between sex and marriage. But when you are dealing with people who don't have the same moral compass as you do, preventing pregnancy would be a first step in stopping this cycle (as well as abortion).

User avatar
poetess
Under the stars
Posts: 3129
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:47 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): October 8th, 2011
Gender: Female

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby poetess » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:02 am

MDG, I would have happily had a baby at that age because I was growing up in a child-friendly large family, already had married siblings and some had children, and I'd already experienced maternal love toward a child. It had nothing to do with this notion that a child is someone to love me, but with the recognition that I can love and raise a child.

I agree that finishing high school is important, though these days having a baby doesn't usually seem to keep girls from finishing high school. (Sometimes girls who are apt not to finish high school are also likely to be drinking, using drugs, and having sex, but for the girl interested in her studies, having a baby doesn't keep her from finishing high school.) Often, though, when we say "finishing school" we mean she has to get at least her bachelor's and maybe her master's and even doctorate. I think children are more important to a woman's life than a master's is, and that getting married is more important than whether or not she has a degree of any sort.

I was actually surprised at the maturity and responsibility of many of the youngsters in the video. The girl who decided at 14 to have a baby, and then had a baby a year (with the same man, who was also dedicated to parenthood) for the next five years--a video can't show everything, but honestly they look like good, devoted parents. I think it was that same video that profiled a different couple, older than 14 but also just teens, who had two special-needs children and then a healthy one, and then they got married--they too looked like loving, responsible parents. The thing missing in their lives is the message "Get married first." But they're pro-family, pro-child, and even committed to each other. It's not clear how much/whether they are supporting their own children financially, and of course that is a major issue as well. But their pro-family stance is actually stronger than that of Christians who marry, wait five years to decide whether they want children at all, and then reluctantly have one or two but are really only willing to accept children if they are healthy, spaced correctly, and born into a home where everyone's education is complete and the finances perfectly in place. Very pro-family . . . but with a complete misunderstanding of the connection between sex and marriage. The vast majority of children born to unmarried teen parents are "lucky" if they end up with even one devoted parent, and it's a horrible way to start a family. Married teen parents are a completely different equation.

I don't think that preventing pregnancy is the first step to resolving the problem partly because premarital sex without babies is very,very little better than premarital sex with babies (babies aren't the problem, though unprepared parents can add to the problem) . . . but also because I think that the more we emphasize "having sex is OK, but having babies is not OK," the more sexual activity we will see, the more STDs and broken hearts, but also the more babies born out of wedlock. You simply can't give carte blanche to premarital sex without some kids deciding to have babies, too, and some kids having babies even if they don't want them. Unwed teenagers are usually very bad parents, so I'm not in favor of encouraging such. But we've trained a few generations now to see that unrestricted sex is good but babies are bad, and that is anything but a pro-family message. These teen parents who are pro-sex and pro-baby are actually more pro-family!
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

User avatar
Leah
Under the stars
Posts: 16007
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:42 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): November 3rd, 1979
Gender: Female
Location: The Volunteer State

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby Leah » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:15 am

It doesn't help when the entertainment industry turns these teen moms into celebrities.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


TMB Copyright and Fair Use

neilethere
King bed
Posts: 748
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:27 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): March 18th, 2000
Gender: Male
Location: The land down under ...... where women glow and men ppplllllunder

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby neilethere » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:22 pm

Correct Leah, although that might in part be a reaction to the demonising of unwed pregnancies in the past.

The partial answer to the financial support question, Poetess, is that England - like Australia - has a fairly generous social security system ....... welfare to you. An unwed mother of 1 in Australia would be receiving something like $250 per week. Not enough to live on but it helps. My guess would be that many of the kids with kids on the shows you have watched will be living with their parents? Or receiving help from them?

The other factor that is different between the US and other developed nations is the concept of a working poor - or if you like a living wage. From memory the minimum adult wage in Australia is about $20 per hour. My 14yo works in a pet shop/vets and makes $15.50. Although the author denies it I would suggest there is a stronger link between colour and poverty (or not working poor or maybe even working poor) in your country and marriage.

MayDayGirl wrote:But when you are dealing with people who don't have the same moral compass as you do, preventing pregnancy would be a first step in stopping this cycle (as well as abortion).


Very true, MDG. It is interesting to a non-American that even the subject of teaching prevention is a political issue over there.

poetess wrote:I think condoms are kept close to the pharmacy because they are a high-theft item


Maybe, but I live in a land where theft is high and everyone gets patted down by security walking in and out of the supermarket (Papua New Guinea) and they have boxes of condoms beside every cash register. Marie Stopes (organisation) does a great job over here of teaching safe sex/family planning to - honestly - people with almost no education in a third world country. Abortion is almost unheard of because they have no money. Condoms in Australia are available in every supermarket, service station and etc. Actually, I don't know anyone who has ever bought them from a pharmacy.

User avatar
poetess
Under the stars
Posts: 3129
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:47 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): October 8th, 2011
Gender: Female

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby poetess » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:29 pm

Neil,

In America, more ethnic minorities (proportionately) are poor, but the out-of-wedlock birthrate is extremely high (above 70% among black Americans). From everything I have read, married fathers in the home are the only crucial variable in poverty. Poverty in homes with an employed, married father is usually only temporary, anyway. Homes that have five children by four different men, with the mother living with a man who isn't the father of any of the home's children, will not be stable. And unfortunately when the government pays for the children in those homes, it discourages mothers from marrying and discourages fathers from needing to care for their own children--which emasculates men and does nothing to encourage them to make mature choices. I wasn't meaning to ask how the teenage parents afforded their children, but whether they were choosing to take financial care for them. If these young fathers are working to provide for their children, then they are being mature and responsible, apart from the nonmarital sex. Teenagers who decide to have children but have no financial responsibility for those children are making a bad, irresponsible choice on top of one to have children outside marriage.

I live in the US, and most of my family is (or at some point has been) working poor. That is, very low income but no government assistance (which is offered very "generously" in America, as well, BTW, between food stamps, free meals at school, health insurance, and many other freebies).

I really don't think that teaching on "safe sex" adds to a nation's health. For one thing, it says that babies are not a good, natural result of sex, but a "danger" of sex. But it also makes sex recreational and separate from marriage. And it doesn't even decrease the out-of-wedlock birthrate or STDs! By increasing the moral acceptance of extramarital sex, and increasing the incidence of such, it ends up increasing all the things that it theoretically decreases (including abortion). And it makes pregnancy seem to be a bad thing, even within marriage. I know that every culture has people committing sexual sin. But make premarital sex the norm and eventually make marriage almost irrelevant, as Europe has done and America is doing, and you have no grounds at all for a healthy culture. And interestingly, it seems that a culture that has lost all of its stigma against nonmarital sex turns around and applies stigmas against virgins, instead.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

User avatar
VikingJ
Hammock
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:42 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): July 10th, 1996
Gender: Male
Location: Norhtern Europe

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby VikingJ » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 am

I don’t understand why christians in the US so often claim or imply that condoms don’t work against STDS.
They greatly reduce the risk and I definitely think that healthcare should really advocate it’s use.
We have to remember that we live in a world that plays with a different rule book than ours and as long as they don’t accept Christ and the Bible they don’t see anything wrong with sexual relationships as long as there is mutual consent. Of course monagomous lifelong relationships are the least risky for STDS but they are not the norm for non believers.
I know a Christian couple I know where one of them have HIV (not sexual or lifestyle related) and I know that they have frequent sex and are not afraid of infecting the other, they use condom and the one with HIV is medicated so the doctors say that the risks are minimal.


Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

User avatar
MayDayGirl
Hammock
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:54 pm
Location: The Burbs

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby MayDayGirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:06 am

VikingJ wrote:I don’t understand why christians in the US so often claim or imply that condoms don’t work against STDS.


I Iive in the US and this is the first I've heard of this, as well as claims that condoms are not a reliable form of birth control. Every study I've ever read over the last 30 years shows condoms to be one of the most reliable. If teens can figure out how to have sex, then can figure out how to put on a condom.

Either we recommend safe sex practices and promote contraception, or we continue to be willing to pay more and more taxes to support the welfare program. Personally, I'd rather not see more kids born into single parent, poor, uneducated families where the kids have little chance to rise above their circumstances and not repeat the cycle. There is a high likelihood for abuse and neglect in these situations, besides drug use and crime. It truly baffles my mind why Christians do not want to take any measures to prevent this.

User avatar
VikingJ
Hammock
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:42 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): July 10th, 1996
Gender: Male
Location: Norhtern Europe

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby VikingJ » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:20 am

Poetess made a comment like that earlier in the thread:
poetess wrote:I think that teens who are encouraged in use of condoms are actually at far greater risk: their risk of pregnancy is not greatly reduced (user error, breakage, and failure to use them at all in the heat of the moment), their risk of STDs is not greatly reduced (they don't offer protection against several STDs, and they don't offer protection against any of them if they break--would you have sex with a person you knew to be infected with HIV with only a condom between you?!), but most importantly condoms do nothing at all to protect against a broken heart or against the sinfulness of sex outside of marriage.

While it’s true that it doesn’t protect against broken heart or sin it greatly reduces the risks of STDS.
I have seen similar arguments around the “True love waits” movement and others.


Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Job29Man
Pay no attention to the folks behind the curtain.
Pay no attention to the folks behind the curtain.
Posts: 8049
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:52 pm
Date of your marriage (past or future): August 2nd, 1980
Gender: Male
Location: Hobby Farm, USA

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby Job29Man » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:27 am

Poetess,
You have touched on the untouchable third rail of modern Western, or Western influenced, post-Christian societies. In my parents generation the Black family in America had a higher rate of marriage than the White family. The rate of gainful employment by Black husbands was almost total. Their work ethic was well-known and respected. Black Americans were for the most part very conservative in convictions and lifestyle. There was virtually NO thug culture. The Black family, and Black husband, father, and wife, mother back then would easily serve as the model of excellence to modern Americans (White, or any other ethnicity) today. Blacks were steadily climbing into a Middle Class life.

The Civil Rights Movement, and Civil Rights Acts I and II, while not able to influence the prejudice of individuals in their hearts, would at least make illegal the open oppression and segregation against Blacks and others.

Things were looking up for Blacks in America. They were going good places, slowly, and the hope was that over a few generations personal racial prejudice would begin to die out, and much greater prosperity and success would accrue to Blacks.

Then something happened, a movement, in America (and most Western, and Western influenced societies).

Most people are unwilling to look, without flinching, squarely in the face, the truth of what caused the downfall of the Black (and now, White) families.


This is a little quiz I give to my children, and to (especially) young Americans (like Millenials and Gen Z) who are bewildered and clueless about things.
Complete the following, by inserting the accurate verb:
The strongest powers of government are the power to _________ and the power to ____________.
Behaviors the government wishes to increase, it _______________________.
Behaviors the government wishes to decrease, it _______________________.


poetess wrote:Neil,

In America, more ethnic minorities (proportionately) are poor, but the out-of-wedlock birthrate is extremely high (above 70% among black Americans). From everything I have read, married fathers in the home are the only crucial variable in poverty. Poverty in homes with an employed, married father is usually only temporary, anyway. Homes that have five children by four different men, with the mother living with a man who isn't the father of any of the home's children, will not be stable. And unfortunately when the government pays for the children in those homes, it discourages mothers from marrying and discourages fathers from needing to care for their own children--which emasculates men and does nothing to encourage them to make mature choices.
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.

User avatar
poetess
Under the stars
Posts: 3129
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:47 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): October 8th, 2011
Gender: Female

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby poetess » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:26 am

Effectiveness of condom use in prevention of pregnancy and disease: First, I am not making this up. If I were writing a book, I'd be citing my sources, but all of this is well studied and is well documented elsewhere. Pushing condoms is not an effective strategy. In fact (I wish I did remember my source on this one), when Africa was becoming decimated by AIDS, most nations pushed condom use as "safe sex" and one decided instead to emphasize marital fidelity--and guess which country had AIDS decline and not grow?

These are some of the facts to which I alluded above, but I will spell them out directly here. Sorry, I don't have time to cite sources, but documentation on any of this is easy to find:

* Condom use has a significant user-error rate among hormone-driven teenagers.
* Sexually active teenagers also have a significant aversion to using condoms every single time. And sometimes one partner simply refuses, no condom is available, or in the heat of the moment they just go ahead without one.
* Even with condom use every single time, condoms sometimes break or fail to prevent pregnancy.
* Condoms do not protect all that well against several STDs--here is an actual source on this one:

Male condoms may not cover all infected areas or areas that could become infected. Thus, they are likely to provide greater protection against STDs that are transmitted only by genital fluids (STDs such as gonorrhea, chlamydia, trichomoniasis, and HIV infection) than against infections that are transmitted primarily by skin-to-skin contact, which may or may not infect areas covered by a condom (STDs such as genital herpes, human papillomavirus [HPV] infection, syphilis, and chancroid). (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, https://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/brief.html )


* A culture that condones sexual activity among teenagers will have more of the same, and with more sexual activity among teenagers comes more pregnant teens and more teens with STDs.
* The rate of STDs among American teenagers is staggeringly high in spite of decades of the "safe sex" message--so maybe adolescent sex really isn't safe after all?
* Sex outside of marriage, regardless the age of the teens, is morally wrong--this is the most important point, and when we focus on something else, we are distracted. Secondly, with or without resulting pregnancy or disease, sex outside of marriage is harmful to those involved and to society.

And here is another point that is well-documented: Planned Parenthood gets most of its consumer money (I can't say offhand how tax dollars play into this) from abortion. They actually plan into their numbers on a certain number of abortions per client as an average. It is in their best interest to sell abortions, and thus in their best interest to sell "safe sex" and know that their young clients won't use condoms well enough to prevent all pregnancies. But when free, unlimited sex is seen as an innate "good" and pregnancy an innate "bad," then you encourage sex and worry about pregnancy later. But it is very well known that teenagers who have frequent sex are probably going to have some pregnancies along the way. And yeah, if you have a pregnancy, then you also have exposure to disease, even HIV. So all the stuff about condoms being effective if used correctly has one big bad "if." If you are married to someone who through no fault of his own develops HIV, then of course you are likely to continue having sex but do the best you can for protection. If you are merely dating someone who has HIV or full-blown AIDS, is it worth the risk of putting that thin bit of latex between you and hoping you've used it correctly and it's actually a quality condom?

I'm not making this stuff up. Selling the use of condoms as "safe sex" means more sex, more pregnancies, more abortions, and more STDs. And it "sells" immorality as a good thing!
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

User avatar
VikingJ
Hammock
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:42 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): July 10th, 1996
Gender: Male
Location: Norhtern Europe

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby VikingJ » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:58 am

My take after reading the entire page you are referring to is that condoms are highly effective as long as properly used. If people have sex outside of marriage anyhow condoms have a lot of benefits compared to contraceptive pills and other methods.
We all agree on that the best would be that everyone where Christians and followed Gods design for us but sadly they are not.
The effect in my country of a couple of articles exaggerating the fact that condoms are not perfect was not less extramarital sex, the result was a spike in STDS and abortions.
I personally don’t think scare tactics and half truths get people to accept Christ.


Sent from my phone using Tapatalk

User avatar
poetess
Under the stars
Posts: 3129
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:47 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): October 8th, 2011
Gender: Female

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby poetess » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:28 am

I personally don’t think scare tactics and half truths get people to accept Christ.


Apples and oranges here. First, we aren't talking about "getting people to accept Christ" but whether a higher rate of marriage is good for culture and how a high rate of premarital sex affects culture. Ultimately, people can be highly moral and without Christ, and they lose. But that is not the point of this particular conversation. We can likewise talk about whether it is or isn't good to have fire insurance on your home, and that is a separate discussion than whether you know Christ.

We're also not talking about either "half truths" or "scare tactics," though. It's a full truth, not a half truth, for example, that condoms provide only limited protection against some kinds of STDs even when used correctly, and when used incorrectly or not at all, they provide little to no protection against pregnancy or the whole gamut of STDs. Selling condoms to teenagers and telling them they can now have premarital sex "safely" is like selling a helmet to a teenager and telling him he can now safely ride his bike on the highway. We've increased his odds of safety over doing the same activity without some protection, but we've also increased his odds of thinking that said activity is now safe, and it isn't. We should instead be pointing him toward a focus of marriage.

Is there any other activity of life in which we say "People are going to do this harmful act anyway, so let's ask them pretty please to do it in a slightly safer way"? Do we say well, children are going to run into the street anyway, so let's put body armor on them; or people are going to drink and drive anyway, so let's caution them never to leave the house without drinking a full cup of coffee first; or my daughter will probably have a relationship with an abuser at some point, so let's go ahead and give her a tattoo so at least it will be easier to identify her body someday? In other categories of risky behavior, we tell people, "This is a bad idea, so do this and this instead" not "This is how you can maneuver this danger with slightly less risk, and we'll go ahead and call it 'safe' so that you won't know it's actually still very, very high risk--and still, by the way, every bit as much morally wrong."

In my list of known truths about adolescents and condom use, I forgot to mention that the use of alcohol or drugs also adds to user error, so parties and teenagers or young adults can be a uniquely dangerous mix.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

User avatar
MayDayGirl
Hammock
Posts: 1189
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:54 pm
Location: The Burbs

Re: Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby MayDayGirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:30 am

Honestly, all this denial about promoting condoms would be like not teaching our kids to wash their hands after using the bathroom because they might not do a good enough job, or that antibacterial soap is not 100% effective, or that major manufacturers wants us to get sick so they can sell us more toilet paper.

User avatar
VikingJ
Hammock
Posts: 1061
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:42 am
Date of your marriage (past or future): July 10th, 1996
Gender: Male
Location: Norhtern Europe

Marriage an Asset to Family and Community Health

Postby VikingJ » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:41 am

Your example of using a helmet while motorcycling is in my view very similar to the condom use.
A helmet is not guaranteed to save you if you crash but it definitely raises survivability.
Of course the safest thing is not riding a motorcycle at all but I like riding a motorcycle and if people try to persuade me to not do it because helmets are not perfect I would perceive that as scare tactics, some people might even skip using a helmet because it might not help.

Sent from my phone using Tapatalk
Last edited by VikingJ on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.


Return to “Marriage Books, Resources, Sites”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users