SHEET MUSIC by Dr. Kevin Leman

What marriage resources have been helpful or encouraging to you?
sambo
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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby sambo » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:24 am

While Sheet Music is a little "tame" and yes maybe stereotypical at times, I did find it a good refresher after having read it the first time several years ago. I think that over time, especially if you are searching for something new and exciting, the basics may get shoved to the back. My reread did a lot of good in bringing some things back to the forefront. We were kinda like, "well, hey I had forgotten about that and you know what, it feels really good!"
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phillipians 4:13

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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby horsedoc » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:30 am

Well if we are all saying that this book is good for young couples, what would be good for us couples married for 10 years and in a rut?

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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby sambo » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:45 am

Well that is kinda the way I felt. LIke I mentioned in another post, I reread it just before we went away for a getaway weekend. I really think it helped. I went into the whole weekend with the mindset that we were going to be like newlyweds again, so I guess that may have had a lot to do with it.
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Phillipians 4:13

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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby jokerman » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:57 am

horsedoc wrote:Well if we are all saying that this book is good for young couples, what would be good for us couples married for 10 years and in a rut?



It depends on the nature of the rut. If both partners are game for good sex but have just gotten busy, then maybe a book or a game on new positions would be good. If there are deep-rooted relational issues, try Passionate Marriage. Several TMBers have spoken highly of Intimate Issues, Boundaries, Love and Respect.

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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby Made4N » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:16 pm

We liked it. It was the first book we read after we got married so maybe that had something to do with it.

due_benevolence

Re: "Sheet Music" = Pornography?

Postby due_benevolence » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:56 pm

It's definitely not porn.

I have this book and have read it and i do not see how anyone who as actually read it could make this remark. I have to say that i am slightly disappointed in that he doesn't use a lot of scripture in the book. But considering that he is a marriage counselor and that the book is focusing on marital intimacy, i didn't expect it to be as theologically deep as something from R.C. Sproul, for example. And you may consider that many reading it may not even be Christians themselves.
That being said, i don't find any part of it to be pornographic. In fact, he speaks against pornography. It may be that many are put off by his sometimes frank language and are simply not used to seeing/reading/hearing such topics discussed openly.

My wife and i have been reading it a chapter at a time and discussing what we are getting from it. If nothing else it can be a great catalyst for you and your spouse to start openly discussing your needs to each other and understanding how to be more intimate with your spouse.

Vanna

Re: "Sheet Music" = Pornography?

Postby Vanna » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:59 am

Just another example of how we need to be discerning and find balance in the Christian community concerning God's plan for MARRIED intimacy. Nothing wrong with a healthy MARRIAGE bed.

These same people barely bat an eye when someone is engaged in pre-marital sex in the church... and there's tons of that going on. ::huh

So, now we have to go out into the secular world to find out about marital sex. Sorta sad, but sorta telling. That's what our kids do too. After all, if you can't learn it on TV, then where can you? ::arg

Glad to say that I found both "Sheet Music" and "Red Hot Monogamy" at my Family Christian Bookstore. Praise the Lord.

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Re: "Sheet Music" = Pornography?

Postby padsnd » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:46 am

Dadtoall wrote:
Shipguy wrote:I would have been really tempted to go get a Bible from her shelves, bring it back to the counter and open it to Song of Solomon and exclaim "Whew!" If she asked, I would have said "I was glad to see SoS here. However, If you think Sheet Music is pornographic, then if you have a razor, I will help you remove SoS from your Bibles. Shall I fetch the rest while you cut?"


Yeah, but I suppose you would have gotten the "that's figurative, not literal" line.


If I recall correctly, "Sheet Music" has a section on anatomy where there are figures. Kevin talks about those figures, so one could argue that his book is figurative too. :)
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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby TilWeHaveFaces » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:17 pm

Bumping an old thread here, but I just got this one over the holidays. About 2/3rds through right now (told DW I'd vet it before recommending it), and while I get the objections voiced here (stereotypical, basic) it is -- I believe -- precisely the medicine our 12-year marriage needs. We are in many ways the stereotypical couple: exceedingly important to me; maybe #22 on my DW's list. Just about everything Leman describes in terms of what "men" like, I think "preach it." And he nails most of our sex killers and bad attitudes. (Fwiw, I agree and resonate with his dismissal of AS.)

On top of that our basic framework is "desperately asked / begrudgingly given" and there's not much in terms of variety. I take what is given because it's better than nothing, and rarely find it a worthy enterprise to rock the boat.

But guess what? I'm about to start some boat rocking. Pray for me/us, if you feel so led!

It may be basic, but it's basics we need. I'm a little envious of those of you so far beyond what is, apparently, our "101" level after all this time.

Secondly, I have a question -- are there any study questions by chapter either here on TMB or online anywhere? That'd be very helpful to us. Not that I couldn't create my own, of course, but I'd prefer a "neutral" third-party source.

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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby facetoface » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:43 pm

I read it after I'd been married for about 20 years. I wish very much that I'd known about it much, much sooner. It was very helpful to me. Now, if I had TMB earlier in my marriage, that would have been helpful too. Really helpful. :wink:

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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby Sergeant Bob » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:52 pm

I'm reading it now and though I haven't come across any new revelations (married 14 yrs) I like his writing style and candor. I'm about 1/3 of the way through and I wish I'd have read this first 3rd before my wedding night.
-Sarge
Putting God at the head of your marriage and using His Word as your marriage manual - those are the secrets to a long and happy marriage!

tallmommy

Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby tallmommy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:06 pm

I was recommended this book when I was struggling to consumate my marriage because of Vaginismus. The book made me cry because he said something to the effect that engaging in intercourse is easy.

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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby ukFred » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:51 am

After 27 years of marriage, it did help us start to go in the right direction. I have to agree that it is a primer, not an advanced study. But then, I don't think it was written to be an advanced study.
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JSJoplin
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Re: SHEET MUSIC by Dr. Kevin Leman

Postby JSJoplin » Fri May 06, 2016 10:53 pm

Hopefully I can resurrect and old thread here:

I've not read "Sheet Music" but for those that have, I could use some advice. I'm married to a woman who was once very sexually open and adventurous with me, but was also sexually abused as a young teen by her stepfather. Getting married caused all the hurt/anger/fear/betrayal to surface, and she spent the first handful of years of our marriage in counseling. Simultaneously I developed a porn habit and almost had an affair. As she was healing, I was getting worse, and as she was opening up again. I confessed everything, she closed back down, and it was my turn for counseling...which we did together and separately for a couple years. In a lot of ways the counseling helped...but it had holes in it. Then my job sent me on the road for 16 months...and when I got back, she wanted to have children. 4 years and 1 miscarriage later, we are still trying, but our intimacy has become about making a baby and little else. No matter what, we're committed to each other, love each other, and want the best for our marriage.

But we really struggle when it comes to talking about sex. My wife has gone from sexually open/adventurous to finding a lot of very vanilla sex "gross". And because the 100% of the counseling we received was Christian, the focus was very heavy on what not to do ~ porn, affairs, etc ~ and nothing about what to do with each other. No matter how gently I bring it up, my wife will often shut down sex discussions because she says she feels "forced" or that there is "pressure" in the discussion. But there isn't. When we were young and dumb, there probably was pressure I put on her at times to try things. But we've been married 16 years, and together for almost 22. And I've not been the "pressure" guy for many many years. But we're also stuck and something has to change.

So my question is this: I've read through this entire thread, and it seems like the book is solely written from a male perspective. Am I reading that correctly? It also sounds like women are possibly made out to look like "the ones that need fixing"... Correct? Is there anything about sexual abuse in the book? My fear is that if we were to read this together, she'd just feel condemned and pressure...and that another man is telling her she has to service her husband. That isn't going to be helpful if this is the case. Any thoughts on this? Any suggestions for other books that might also address intimacy issues from a woman's perspective as well?

Thanks ~

JJ

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Re: SHEET MUSIC by Dr. Kevin Leman

Postby Hiswifeagain » Fri May 06, 2016 11:43 pm

Intimate Issues by Lorraine Pintus and Linda Dillow. Sheet Music was too much for me early on in my awakening.


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Re: SHEET MUSIC by Dr. Kevin Leman

Postby 2pack » Sat May 07, 2016 3:41 am

It was too much for my wife too. She hated it, it set her back some honestly. Haven't read what HWA said but I'd trust her. Intimacy ignited may be good too. Not sure on the abuse part. Is your wife open to coming here? She could find a lot of support.
I'm a moth flyin' into the light of it's doom - You wrap me up in your love cocoon...

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Re: SHEET MUSIC by Dr. Kevin Leman

Postby JSJoplin » Sat May 07, 2016 11:10 am

Hiswifeagain wrote:Intimate Issues by Lorraine Pintus and Linda Dillow. Sheet Music was too much for me early on in my awakening.


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Really good to know. I'll check out Intimate Issues...thanks for the tip.

JJ

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Re: SHEET MUSIC by Dr. Kevin Leman

Postby JSJoplin » Sat May 07, 2016 11:17 am

2pack wrote:It was too much for my wife too. She hated it, it set her back some honestly. Haven't read what HWA said but I'd trust her. Intimacy ignited may be good too. Not sure on the abuse part. Is your wife open to coming here? She could find a lot of support.


My guess is that we're going to need some sort of balance with whatever we do, and something that could push her even further back won't be good for us at all. Thanks for the input. As for my wife coming here...no. She'd never even consider it.

BTW, well done with the "Love Cocoon" lyrics in your signature. Saw VOL/Bill play numerous times over the years.

JJ

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Re: SHEET MUSIC by Dr. Kevin Leman

Postby ledgemoor » Wed May 11, 2016 2:37 pm

Hi JJ--

I have a copy of Sheet Music, and like it for the most part. I don't think it is any more male-oriented than any other book written by a man. It is more of a "beginner's" book, a great first book for engaged or newly-marrieds.

I have also recommended it for people who have hangups about the goodness and blessing of sex in marriage, or who have hangups about certain acts. Yes, nice mainstream Christian people do enjoy sex, have oral sex, etc etc. I read the chapter where Lehman suggests that women masturbate to learn about their bodies to my wife. It didn't go over well. I don't think any book is going to help someone who doesn't want to change.

A book she might read that has been helpful to our marriage is For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn. It isn't so much about the nuts and bolts of sex, but does explain men's sexual needs, not just that we have to ejaculate, but how it is our #1 way of expressing love to our wives.

We have made good progress at every one of the few marriage seminars we have been to. You invariably have an authority figure telling you to talk about this or that and respect the other person's opinions, so you can say things that perhaps would not go over so well if you brought it up out of the blue. There is always some discussion of sex which is good.

We have been going seminars Jimmy Evans of marriagetoday.com. He is very practical and down-to-earth. It isn't a marriage-and-sex seminar like Joe Beam used to do my any means. He deals mostly with the spiritual aspect of sex, which is important. The actual conference is held in the Dallas-Ft Worth area, but it is simulcast to churches around the country. It costs almost nothing. The last one had Henry Cloud (the Boundaries guy) as a guest speaker who is suprisingly is quite entertaining, as well as a Christian comedian. DW enjoyed it. The ones we went to were close enough to drive home for the evening, but we get a hotel and make a date of it. The next one is in August I think.
Last edited by ledgemoor on Wed May 11, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vanna
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Re: Anyone else feel a little disappointed by Sheet Music?

Postby Vanna » Wed May 11, 2016 10:41 pm

SolomonsApprentice wrote:Don't get me wrong, great resource, will recommend it to every couple getting married (maybe will some caveats), but...the stereotypes were just a little unsettling, and there was nothing "new" for me except now I know what the more arousing scent is for women (licorice, cucumber, lavender, baby power combined). Also his absolute dismissal of anal anything as an option was ... well, uprising, in a disappointing way.

He spent an entire chapter on premature ejaculation, and about a paragraph on delayed ejaculation. And only then to say I will have to worry about this in my late 40's or 60's! I'm 30, and dealing with it now! (sorry, little frustrating).

Anyone else feel this way? I'm sure some of the women here were screaming at the book after all the times it blatantly said that men think about sex more, that men want sex more, that men need sex more, etc, etc, etc. I wanted to put it down half the times I read those just because of all the posts I've read here on TMB by wives who have refusing spouses.


This post pretty much summed up my feelings, for those who recall this dusty thread which contains one of my few surviving posts from forever ago. I was one of two ladies who tossed the book in frustration, and one of several who gnashed their teeth on the stereotypes.

(Cucumber... Baby powder... Umm, I'm hot now. Shame hubby is sleeping.)

All I can say is: if you are a gal in the HD boat, blessed with a hubby in the LD boat, it's not going to do much more than make you roll your eyes. I would recommend it to brand new couples, but if I were buying a wedding gift, I'd get them Intimacy Ignited or Passionate Marriage.
After 28 years and six kids, through the good and bad, by the grace of God, things keep getting better and better. ::wed


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