Libido Suppressants?

Low or no sex drive?
Wanderlust

Libido Suppressants?

Postby Wanderlust » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:17 pm

I would like to begin by giving a little history of our situation so that everyone can fully understand where I am coming from.

My wife and I have been married for almost 3 years now. My sex drive has always been higher than hers. We were together for almost 4 years before I proposed to her. I was somewhat frustrated as her boyfriend because of the difference in our sex drives. We went to some counseling and she recognized she did not prioritize sex. I went to counseling on my own and realized that if I married her, I was always going to be somewhat yearning for a more active sex life. But I love her. I have loved her since high school – there is no one else for me. Believe me, I’ve had my share of “not the one’s”.

So I accepted that I would not have the sex life I imagined but as long as I had her by my side, I would be happy. After I proposed, she started feeling some discomfort in her side. She went to multiple gynecology appointments and they found nothing wrong. Eventually they did the CA-125 blood test and her results returned elevated. When we went to visit the gynecological oncologist they found 2 large ovarian cysts that could be cancerous. We scheduled the surgery to have them removed and prayed. The day of the surgery came and it was discovered that she had tumor-like cysts all over her uterus, her ovaries, and her abdominal wall. The surgeon said he could remove them but they would just grow back again. He said that he could make sure they never came back with a complete hysterectomy. Now my wife was previously married and they had a son – the most amazing kid ever, who is now my step-son. So it wasn’t such a dramatic shock, because she had been able to experience motherhood. We had spoken about that as a possibility and I was ready to express her wishes to the surgeon, “do what you have to doc, “ and he performed the hysterectomy. The biopsy later showed it was stage 1 ovarian cancer - my wife was 29 at the time.

We continued our engagement and married three months later. I read all the literature and became fully aware that the gap in our sex drives was only going to grow wider. Again, I love her. Because of the frustrations I had with her before we got married, I came to make it a point to not-initiate very often, because I knew it wasn’t going to get me anywhere. I continued this after we married because I knew that without estrogen, there was even less of a chance of her being in the mood. Fast forward 3 years, we have been to marriage counseling, we have had countless discussions about it, she has spoken to the oncologist, and our sex life is still a problem. Frankly, we average about once a month. Which I was fine with until she brings up the fact that she is not happy with our sex life. Even though, 90% of the time I get NO REACTION from her when I attempt to initiate. So she’s not willing to initiate or to accept an invitation, and she’s frustrated that we don’t have sex more often.

We tried making Wednesday our “hump day”. That worked for a month – a year ago. The longest we have gone without sex is 3 months – I counted the days. My wife does not want to take any hormone therapy because of the risk the cancer will return. The doc tells her to try a glass of wine to relax, the therapist said that she can provide sexual satisfaction through other types of intercourse, and I have tried to be as supportive as possible. After 2 years of not really trying to initiate anything and just waiting until it felt like the time was right, which is what has us having sex once, maybe twice a month, I recently decided to start being more proactive. After 10 days of trying to set the mood, which included cleaning and cooking so she wouldn’t have to worry about anything, full body massages, and trying to make her home environment as comfortable and relaxing as possible. I also attempted to initiate every day. Sometimes it was subtle, sometimes it was less subtle – but I made it a point to try. With 10 attempts, I stuck out 9 times. On the 11th day, I brought up the conversation again and let her know I was frustrated.

My wife then told me she was going to share something with me that she had never told me. She said that every time we have sex, it is very hard for her and it takes a lot of work. She said that because of the surgery, she cannot physically perform because of the lack of estrogen in her body. She said she never wanted to tell me before because it was something that she was ashamed of and made her feel like less of a woman. After listening to her, I recommended that we go to counseling again. I don’t think I fully understand what she feels and I don’t want her to feel even worse by me being frustrated, but I don’t know what else to do. I do many things that I don’t want to do because I love her. That’s what married people do. Our intimacy is suffering because of it and, in turn, our relationship. I am 32 years old and once or twice a month is a problem for me. I have started taking some herbal supplements that suppress my sex drive. I’m hoping that maybe it will help me understand where she is coming from a little better while also helping to stop my frustration. I don’t know what else to do.

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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby ledgemoor » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:57 pm

Hi--

So sorry to hear about your wife's hysterectomy. My DW also had cancer and a total hysterectomy, so I can empathize. She went thru menopause without incident, but when she lost her ovaries, it affected her libido, sex was painful due to vaginal atrophy, she got depressed, hair fell out, you name it....

The good news is that this can be treated with bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy. She will need to take two kinds of estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone.

DW did it and noticed improvement almost immediately. It took some trial and error to get the dosages right, but she has never been in better health. She lost weight and got her youthful figure back, her libido has never been better, she makes lots of lubricant when we make love, and orgasms easily most of the time. Sex is better now than it has ever been, and it was good before all this happened.

If you are in the US you can find a doctor at http://www.a4m.com. There is a lot of other discussion here about it (search for bHRT), and I would be happy to discuss it further with you.

I want to address your libido being higher then hers. The man having the higher drive is usually the case, and is not a bad thing. We got DW back on track, then I started having issues. My libido fell to about the same level as hers -- once or twice a week. The problem was wanting it/needing it/being able to perform at the same time. I see the same bHRT doctor my wife sees and got it fixed, and can pretty much do it every day now, as I have been able to do most of my life. That way I am good to go whenever DW wants it.

What about my "excess" need? Masturbation and charity sex. A healthy woman typically doesn't NEED sex every day, but she can whenever her husband wants her. It sounds unfair at first, but it's not. Charity sex needn't take long if she is busy. When she needs it, I go all out, so we probably spend about the same amount of time on each other. And whatever effort we put into each other is not a burden at all. I enjoy giving her long foreplay, including massages. And even if a woman doesn't have an orgasm, sex should still be enjoyable.
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Wanderlust

Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby Wanderlust » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:47 am

Ledgemoor, I am sorry to hear about your wife and happy that all has turned out well. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

My wife has dismissed bHRT as an option because she is afraid of the risks involved with a relapse of cancer. Vaginal sex is painful for her and she's very shy about discussing other options. She says she doesn't want to talk about it because it makes her depressed.

The herbal supplements I'm taking is chasteberry. Are there any other that someone could recommend?

It's funny because she's complaining about her hair, her weight, her lack of energy, her lack of desire, but is set on not being able to do anything about it.

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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby Unfulfilled » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:34 pm

SHE doesn't want to talk about it because it will make HER depressed???but you being hurt and depressed is OK???

Im no dr but having her hormones balanced in a normal sense wouldnt seem like it would increase her odds of cancer. But I certainly could be wrong. Most cancer or any risks with HRT is due to using synthetic hormones instead of bioidentical.

If she is truly serious then taking the time and money to go to a bioidentical HRT dr would seem to be worth the time,money and effort to gain some education at the very least. Getting the informations d education has zero risk of cancer!

She seems miserable, and you seem miserable. And it sounds like both want to solve this issue. But she has to be willing to at least investigate HRT. Or at least learn more.

If you change nothin, nothing will change.

Taking meds and praying and searching for earthly man made remedies to kill your God given gift of sexual desire for your wife seems. Contrary to Gods will.

Seems to me that your wife needs to put the money where her heart/mouth is. That she wants to solve this. And the fact that she FINALLY took the risk and made herself vulnerable to tell you what is truly bothering her is a big step for her. But I think she needs to take another. And it will take huge courage for her to do it.

I think your best bet is to try to encourage her for both of you to truly get honest medical and expert opinion on bioidentical hormone therapy and what the true factual risks are. If any! Maybe if done carefully and properly there will be no risk at all! She may have simply been misinformed.

Just my opinion.

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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby Job29Man » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:38 am

Wanderlust wrote:My wife has dismissed bHRT as an option because she is afraid of the risks involved with a relapse of cancer.

Does she believe this because of reading reliable scientific studies that demonstrate a statistically significant risk with taking bioidentical hormones?
Or is it based on something she heard from a friend, or some other source less reliable than two or more randomized, prospective, double-blind studies published in reputable peer-reviewed Medical Journals?
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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby Wanderlust » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:46 am

You're absolutely right. We need to take the time to consider possible HRT.
It's just that the gyno oncologist let us know that there is a small risk for breast cancer and cancer to develop in the peritoneum. Compounded by a family history of breast cancer, she doesn't consider HRT an option.
I can't force her to consider it either.

It's just that since we've been married, sex has always been a once or twice a month thing. When it happens, it's amazing, but it's just that if I try more often, like maybe once a week, it's ALWAYS in vain, because nothing happens.

I talked to her last night and I told her what I had begun to do. I told her that I was tired of "talking" about it without things changing. I let her know that without her body producing those hormones, it's not going to magically get better or easier. I told her I was taking the chasteberry, along with ligistrum, and valerian. All which are supposed to aid in decreasing the sex drive.

She said that it's not what she wants. She says she wants a normal sex life. But I told her that she's not doing anything about it. I'm done with taking about it, she's hasn't done anything about it since we got married.

I knew our sex life wasn't going to be out of this world before I married her and when the cancer came I knew it would be even less. If she's not going to do anything to change, my options are cheat on her, divorce her, or join her. If I can't or don't want to have sex, then maybe I can at least understand her better and know what it feels like to not want to have sex.

Am I crazy?

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby alaska bob » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:11 pm

Wanderlust wrote:I knew our sex life wasn't going to be out of this world before I married her and when the cancer came I knew it would be even less. If she's not going to do anything to change, my options are cheat on her, divorce her, or join her. If I can't or don't want to have sex, then maybe I can at least understand her better and know what it feels like to not want to have sex.

Am I crazy?

Thank you for taking the time to reply.


Just something to think about - I think I could be perfectly happy with PIV twice a month if it was augmented by a couple of sessions a week of some other type of sexual intimacy. Oral, manual, sensual massage. I know there are bound to be some who disagree, but in my opinion, a person doesn't need sexual desire to give those things to their spouse. In my opinion, you simply need a desire to please your spouse to give those.

Your situation is not optimal, granted, we'd all like a vibrant and satisfying sex life. But I think knowing the medical limitations of my wife, I could make due with and even thrive with an alternative approach.

I think if I were you I'd let my wife know that ignoring the problem and not talking about it doesn't make it go away, it just shows that she isn't concerned enough about your satisfaction to do anything about it.

Taking a suppressant doesn't seem like a viable option to me.

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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:29 pm

alaska bob wrote: I know there are bound to be some who disagree, but in my opinion, a person doesn't need sexual desire to give those things to their spouse. In my opinion, you simply need a desire to please your spouse to give those.

I totally agree. I often live this. But then the question becomes, can the spouse receive it for the gift it is?
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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby ledgemoor » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:11 pm

Yeah, our oncologists gave is the HRT scare talk, and DW's mother had breast cancer, so I know what you are going thru. More on that later.

Wanderlust wrote:Am I crazy?

No, there is logic to what you say, albeit misguided IMO. Putting poisons in your body is not the way to deal with this. Unfortunately the problem is, at its roots, spiritual. A lack of generosity, not hormones. The low hormone and resulting health issues just add to the problem. Others here are better able to help you with the spiritual angle of this, but she may as well be healthy while working thru it. Perhaps the cancer can be a catalyst that will force you to discuss and resolve this. Never let a crisis go to waste :-) She says she wants a normal sex life -- that's a start!

Don't let her cancer become an excuse not to have sex. Even without HRT, there are things that can be done so that she can comfortably have sex again. Ask her oncologist for Estrace cream. It is an estrogen cream that she puts in her vagina. It is formulated so that it doesn't get absorbed into the bloodstream, so it heals the vaginal walls without the alleged cancer risk. DW used it, and it does work. And of course there is always manual and oral :D.

Ok, now on to HRT & bHRT. There was a large study of the effects of HRT on women. There were health issues which caused them to terminate the study prematurely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s ... Initiative
This study is largely why most doctors are opposed to HRT. (Incidentally, one of my wife's oncologists feels that the risks were blown out of proportion by the press, and that the benefits outweigh the risks). However, this study isn't very relevant to women needing bHRT. Here's why:
* The study included some women who had their ovaries.
* The study focused on long-term benefits such as reduction in osteoporosis, not immediate needs such as vaginal atrophy.
* Libido was not addressed or was not a major concern. Testosterone was not given.
* Everyone was given the same dose.
* Most importantly, the hormones were not bioidentical.

Even doctors who will prescribe regular non-bioidentical HRT, are anti-bHRT. The argument goes that (A) the safety of bHRT has not been tested in a large study, and that (B) safety of drugs purchased from compounding pharmacies.

A. Safety of Bioidentical Hormones: Doctors are often uninformed about bHRT and claim that they are untested. The fact is that there are modest-sized studies, all which bear out their safety when used correctly. Check this out:
http://www.holtorfmed.com/pdf/01-Bioide ... debate.pdf
Furthermore, bHRT has been around for about 30 years, and there have been no widespread health disasters as a result.

Common sense tells you that substances that your body need and normally makes itself are safe. However, some hormones, including testosterone and some estrogens, increase cancer growth in laboratory settings. I was questioning the oncologist if there were any known risks of cancer with normal hormone levels in living breathing humans, and couldn't get a straight answer. I asked an oncologist: "If you removed the ovaries from 1000 healthy women, would their cancer rate drop?" She pretended to get upset that I would even suggest such a thing ("I wasn't suggesting actually dong that. I said IF. I tried wording my question other ways and you didn't seem to understand"). Still no answer.

Bottom line, there is no evidence that normal hormone levels are a cancer risk.

B. Safety of drugs purchased from compounding pharmacies: This is the crux of the matter. The NIH opposed bHRT primarily on grounds that they come from compounding pharmacies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219716/
The article claims that compounding pharmacies manufacture hormones. This is not true. They merely mix various hormones that they buy elsewhere according to what the doctor prescribes. Interestingly, this article seems OK with bioidentical hormones that come from major pharmaceutical manufacturers. I discuss this in more detail here:
http://boards.themarriagebed.com/viewto ... 8#p1018648


Anyway, if you are still reading, this will get you started researching it. I hope I have given you enough to convince her not to simply dismiss it based on what her doctor said, and look into it further. There are many books on it.

Why not make an appt with a bHRT doctor to discuss it? She could always try it for a year then decide.

Bottom line, without her ovaries, she will be in poor health the rest of her life. They can treat symptoms, but the only way to be healthy is to take hormones. To me it is a no-brainer.

It is likely that her testosterone levels have been low her whole life. Our sex life has never been bad, but DW's libido is better now than it has ever been. Hormones won't solve generosity issues, but they can't hurt. I would prefer that DW have sex with me because she loves me, but having sex with me because she needs an orgasm is good too!
Last edited by ledgemoor on Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby poetess » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:16 pm

Ledgemoor, I have to comment on this: "Bottom line, without her ovaries, she will be in poor health the rest of her life. They can treat symptoms, but the only way to be healthy is to take hormones."

Menopause is a natural stage of life. Hormone therapy is a rather recent invention, and most women age fine without it. If the benefits of hormones outweigh the costs and the risks for a particular couple, then hormones are great. But the idea that good health is impossible without them seems a stretch.
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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby ledgemoor » Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:57 pm

Ok, we're not talking about natural menopause with respect to my wife or the OP's. Their ovaries were removed. Totally different thing. My DW made it thru menopause with minor inconvenience and was in good health during and afterwards. But things fell apart after her hysterectomy/oophorectomy.

A lot of people believe that ovaries in post-menopausal women do nothing. Not true. They continue to make estrogens, progesterone, testosterone, oxytocin and God knows what else. Also note that the OPs wife lost her ovaries before menopause.

It is true that adrenal glands also make hormones and pick up some of the slack. Perhaps in some people can get back to normal after an oophorectomy. I doubt it though, and DW certainly didn't.
Last edited by ledgemoor on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby Wanderlust » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:29 am

Thank you all for your comments – they are incredibly helpful. We have discussed our sex life over and over. When we went to therapy, the therapist was quite explicit about there being a problem on her end. We had gone three months without anything. I’ve let her know that I’m not happy with our sex life and she has also expressed the same feeling – again and again.She worries that I’m going to cheat on her or that I’m going to leave her. There isn’t a conversation we haven’t had regarding sex.

@SeekingChange
I am more than generous with her – I always have been. I’m a total giver. OS, MS, anything to help a lady out. That has never been reciprocated. I can count, on one hand, the amount of times I have received OS, since we have been together – going on 7 years now. I am appreciative whenever it does happen, but I’m tired of being blue in the face letting her know that I want it more – a lot more.

@ledgemoor
I have been reading and reading all the information that you have recommended. Thank you for that. I haven’t told her that I have reached out to an online discussion board because she would die. Other literature I have read also indicates that bHRT is not regulated where as traditional HRT is, and therefore follows some sort of safety standards. I can only suggest that she look more into hormone therapy but I can’t force it on her.

@poetess
Menopause is a natural part of life but not when you’re 29 and have had a total hysterectomy and oophorectomy. This is the reason that I am taking the libido suppressants in the first place – to try and understand what happens when you lose part, or all, of your reproductive organs at a young age. And regarding the aging process - it is noticeable in her hair, her energy levels, and even her skin. Which is why she bathes in lotion every day to keep her skin healthy and why she has 3 or 4 special shampoos and oils for her hair. Don't get me wrong, my wife is hot and beautiful, and the only reason I have noticed anything is because she has pointed them out to me.

@ledgemoor
“Lack of generosity” hits the nail on the head. I know I can’t fully understand what she’s feeling, but, there has to be some compromise. I don’t know how else to tell her. Maybe a sex therapist would help.

All I know is that the herbal supplements I am taking aren’t doing a thing for me – I guess I need to give them more time to take effect. However, since I told her I was taking them, she seems to be making more of an effort. It had been the usual two week hiatus a couple of nights ago, when she initiated. I was thrilled but, immediately after, I got really sad. All I could think about was that I was going to have to wait another 2 weeks, maybe more, to share this again with her. I didn’t say anything, because of the fact that I am working to suppress my urges, but it was such an overwhelming feeling. Then last night, she initiated again and it was out of this world!

So it’s a start – but we’ve been there before - it lasted a month and then withered again. I don’t want to get my hopes up. And I don't want the pity sex because she knows I'm trying to suppress my libido.

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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby Nvr2Late » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:18 am

Ledgmoor did an amazing job with his post and I agree 100%.

I just wanted to weigh in with my own experience.

I've had cancer twice with at least one near miss. First time was stage 1 of the cervix. Most of my cervix was removed by laser.

In the late 90's I developed endometriosis and a fibroid along with a few small ovarian cysts. I had horrible periods, vile PMS, strange abdominal pains, etc and etc. Finally, had a full abdominal hysterectomy in which they found that the endometriosis had spread throughout my entire peritoneum and the pathology on the ovarian cysts showed pre-cancerous changes as did the fibroid. It took 2 surgeons hours to get it all out.

My Gyn at that time explained why I should never take conventional HRT - at least for about 3 years. So I got a hard and fast introduction to menopause with all the symptoms your wife is having. Slowly I lost all desire for sex, became moody, depressed.

Fast forward about 8 yrs and I developed anal cancer. Squamous cell, very aggressive. During my recovery, I learned about Bioidentical testosterone replacement for women. I saw an anti-aging doctor (who had previously been an oncologist!) for T pellets initially. I was very impressed by the effects. Then, while doing my own due diligence about hormone replacement & cancer, I found out about testosterone for women following pelvic cancer treatment (full chemo radiation) from a paper written by a doctor at MD Anderson. That sealed it for me.

It turns out that my own body will convert some of that testosterone into estrogen in the amounts I need. My libido returned beautifully, my skin & hair look years younger than my peers, and best of all, as long as my T levels are within physiologic levels, my healing from the combined ravages of surgical menopause plus the radiation therapy continue. I literally would not be able to have PIV comfortably without T therapy.

Just food for thought. Happy to discuss it further by PM if you wish! There ARE a lot of variables to be considered and for brevity's sake I didn't go into everything here.
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Re: Libido Suppressants?

Postby My1975 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:49 am

Has anyone tried anything else to suppress??? I've tried chaste berry, I didn't get any real results, I think I mentally still wanted to be with my wife just as much, and no difference physically, the urge was still just as strong , I still need the emotional bond with her, that's she either doesn't want or need. It also made rejection harder as I felt more emotional over it . I'm considering AD meds. Going to dr this week and going to inquire. I've read they can decrease if not kill libido, perhaps some form of numbing to the lack of regular intimacy will make life better.

I did mention the herbal supplements once after a begging for sex with her moment and my drive was a sore subject, I mentioned trying to supress it with supplements, I was scolded for how selfish that was on my part (?)


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