Ready to give up

Low or no sex drive?
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Hobri
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Ready to give up

Postby Hobri » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:12 am

Hi all. I am hoping I can get some advice. I hope this is the correct place to put this.

My husband and I have been married for almost 8 years. We just had our 4 child 3 months ago. My sex drive dropped after we had our 2 child. Shortly after I had our daughter, I caught him looking at porn, and it hurt me very deeply. I did not want to be intimate with him after finding out, but I was so worried that he would go back to porn that I forced myself to have sex. The more I did this the more I grew to resent having sex with him and hate it. Now 5 years later I still have sex only to keep him good. We have sex 2-3 times a week usually, but it has been more 1-2 times a week since having our 4th.

Another problem is I get no pleasure during sex. I can not orgasm from penetration, and my husband rarely worries about my orgasm. He hasn't given me an orgasm in over a year. Every once in a while he will ask me if I want one, but he will ask after kissing for 5 minutes and I'm not even turned on yet. I have told him what I enjoy during foreplay, but he only focuses on the parts he enjoys. I'm so frustrated.

I have tried talking to him about our sex issues, but he will ignore me and say absolutely nothing. It's like talking to a wall. I get so hurt by this that I have learned not to even bring anything up. So, now I am ready to just stop sex all together and let our marriage end. I tired of feeling like I mean nothing but something to put his penis inside. I don't know what to do anymore.


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Re: RE: Ready to give up

Postby love2 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:45 am

Hobri -

I'm sure there are other members that are more seasoned than me that might have more advice but I do recommend forgivenwifes website (google search for it). She goes a long way to explain that sex is how men bond and how they feel connected so she dispels the idea that women are just semen garbage cans to men.

For a short period of time, I had a similar problem with my husband not caring about my orgasm which really was a problem because I am the HD spouse. This led to me flat out saying that if I don't get an orgasm husband doesn't get one either. Since then, I have an orgasm every time we have sex and we also don't have 'quickie' unless there is enough time for me to orgasm.

To that end, I think (personally) that the wife needs to take charge of what brings her pleasure and not be afraid to use her own hands, toys, request certain positions. I think it is a mistake to expect the husband to 'give me an orgasm' and be mad when he doesn't. At the same time, an attitude of laziness can develop on the part of the husband where he gets sloppy because he knows a toy can get to the job done so he doesn't do a lot of OS or MS. Ultimately, I think my marriage benefits the most when I make my pleasure my responsibility instead of being resentful at him.

I also sense that there are a lot of unresolved issues in your marriage about the porn use as well as your lower drive. Also it doesn't seem like either one of you are comfortable talking to each other about sex or sex issues. I might suggest you start small by talking about what you liked during a certain sexual encounter and what you would like to do more of - you can bring up a 'suggestion' but keep it positive for the most part. The purpose of this is to get both of you more comfortable talking about sex. Then, hopefully, you can work up to talking about some of the bigger issues and getting them resolved. I think that you are both hurt but in different ways.

Finally, I have said some really dumb things as a HD wife such as 'I just want sex' (no emotional connection) or 'i don't really feel connected to you during sex' etc. 'why can't we just have sex' and I think some of this was hurtful to my husband because it implied that I just wanted sex and that he, as a person, wasn't really that important [I know - shocking role reversal, right?]
Reflecting on this now there are probably two reasons I said some of these things: 1. I couldn't understand why something that should be so simple was so complicated - I want sex, you are my husband, you should want sex too and I am married to you so what is the problem?; 2) I hadn't reflected very deeply on what sex actually meant to me beyond just to be really upset when I was refused.
I say this so you don't have the expectation that you husband will say things like 'my soul wants your soul' or 'i just want to experience your love' etc. Because although these feeling are there (they are and were for me) it can be difficult to verbalize them but it can happen over time.

Bless of luck to you!

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:50 am

How about bringing in a mediator or a third person to help you guys communicate and work through this, like a mentor couple or counselor? Don't give up. Your marriage is worth fighting for. Be praying for the Lord to open your husband's eyes and ears and that he will be teachable.

You could try some different things that might help make IC more pleasurable and might help you to O. A bullet vibe tucked between you during IC my give your clitoris the stimulation it needs. It's common for women not to be able to O from PIV alone.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: RE: Re: Ready to give up

Postby love2 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:31 am

I've never been able to orgasm from PIV alone and I've been married over 10 years - I consider myself very normal in this aspect. Generally, we use a small vibrator during sex to get me to orgasm.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby Hobri » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:39 am

Thank you so much for your response, love2. I have actually read some of forgivenwife's website. I try to believe that I mean more than just sex to him, but it is hard to believe sometimes. Most of the time I feel he wants nothing to do with me unless he is getting sex.

I do sometimes use a vibrator during sex, but afterwards I feel so guilty for only focusing on me. I feel selfish if I focus on my pleasure and not his. It can be difficult for me to orgasm, so when I use the vibrator I have to focus on the sensation and nothing else. Then I worry that he isn't enjoying it at all because I can't actively focus on him. So, it has gotten to the point that I'd rather just use the vibrator when I'm alone so that I can enjoy the orgasm.

I also feel bad if I ask him to give me oral. If I have to ask him I feel as if he doesn't want to be doing it and so I can't enjoy it anyway. I want him to want to give me an orgasm not me force him.

I agree there are unresolved issues about the porn, but he does not like discussing it because it is in the past. We do not have the best communication skills. I do not know how to approach him with issues without him shutting down. I have gotten better at walking away when he shuts down instead of getting angry, but I think now he knows he doesn't even have to try to talk. If I let it go nothing gets resolved in my mind, but everything is fine in his I guess?

I just feel like I have hit a wall, and either I play nice and give him sex without bringing up any issues so that he is happy, or I just give up and maybe he will wake up and see there is a problem.

SeekingChange wrote:How about bringing in a mediator or a third person to help you guys communicate and work through this, like a mentor couple or counselor?

I'm not sure who to ask to help us. I don't know if he would even talk to someone about this. I have brought up marriage counseling before, but that won't happen.

I agree the marriage is worth fighting for, but I feel like I am the only one fighting! I'm worn out.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby Hiswifeagain » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:03 am

Hobri, I'm sorry this area of your marriage is so hard. I've been there too. Have you read the book "Boundaries"? I think that might help you so that you can enjoy what he's willing to do because his feelings about it fall into his area of responsibility. If you need to take turns with what you're focusing on so you can orgasm, then do that. It doesn't have to be either/or, it can be both/and. The resentment about the porn is likely the biggest factor in making sex unpleasant for you. The great thing about that is that it's completely within your control. It's not easy to let go of resentment on our own, but God is faithful to help us. Your dh has things to work on too, but you can't force him to change. You can pray for him and likely will inspire him with your own changes. When you feel led you can respectfully address things you'd like to see different in your marriage bed. Keep reading Forgiven Wife. Many of your dh's selfish behaviors may be due to his hurts that you've not been aware of. That's not an excuse for them, but it helps to understand where they come from. We're here to support and sometimes gently challenge you. Those in this forum have been where you are and we care! Blessings, HWA
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Re: RE: Re: Ready to give up

Postby love2 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:10 pm

I think it's interesting that you are concerned about seeking your pleasure and not being able to focus on your husband when you also assert that he only seeks his own pleasure and doesn't care about your needs.

Why do you expect him to value and prioritize your pleasure when even you don't value or prioritize it yourself?

At this point, I'd suggest that you do a his night (focus on him), a hers night (focus on you) and a couples night (you both try to go for a mutual sexual experience doing say PIV with a toy for your clitoris).

The Jay Dee (pen name) that posts for uncoveringintimacy.com is very much against either spouse masturbating on their own without it being a mutual or shared experience. Reading some of his posts on this might be good food for thought. I know the handful of times I did masturbate solo while married my marriage was at a rock bottom low so his theories seem true.

Anyway, its not usual to need to focus on the sensation solely and not offer a lot to your spouse during that time but incorporating a toy regularly in LM might help to change that over time. Also, I have found that having different stimulation such as nipple, anal, etc. during clitorial stimulation can help decrease the amount of time it takes to have an orgasm.

Finally, asking for OS is the only way I have found to prevent resentment from building for all the times I give oral sex but it is not reciprocated. The only way I have been able to orgasm from OS is when I also use a clitorial vibrator. So I encourage you to ask to prevent resentment also.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:32 pm

To ride on the topic of focusing for pleasure...

Communication will be key here. I am like you, for me to orgasm I have to go into complete receiving mode, which means I am focusing on the sensations my body is feeling and what my husband is providing me.

There was a time that I tried to be very actively giving throughout the whole sexual experience, and I wouldn't O, and I wouldn't O. After a time of this, we realized that the good I was trying to do for my husband was actually backfiring. My husband started feeling like a failure and that he was lacking because he gets great satisfaction, and it builds him up in a way I can't understand, when he brings me to an O. When we communicated and I was able to share what goes on in my mind and body, and it coupled with his own feelings, he wants and desires for me to be the receiver and to just focus on myself, because it brings him great pleasure in seeing the pleasure he gave. It's a win/win, but I don't know if we would have gotten to where we are, or near as quickly, if we wouldn't have communicated.

What we do so that my husband doesn't feel neglected and so I don't feel guilty, is he gets more focus during the foreplay time. That's when I will focus solely on him, often with OS (not to completion but as foreplay), that's when we'll do the passionate kissing, the nibbling and sucking on other body parts, ears, necks, nipples, etc So that, when it comes to the point during IC where I need to switch to receiving, his cup is full.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby Hobri » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:32 pm

HWA, I started to read Boundaries years ago, but I am not sure if I ever finished it. I will have to read it.

I do not know how to let go of resentment. I have prayed about it for years. I have read "self help" books. Looked for guidance in the Bible. Every time I feel God is calling me to change, so I work on me. But, after a while I feel it is all me doing the work, and my husband is just sitting back loving it and letting me do all the work. Then I get angry and say forget this and our marriage ends up in a bad place. We go through this cycle over and over. I get tired of a bad marriage, I try to change me, I get tired of only me fighting for us, so I give up. We go back to being bad. Is something wrong with me? I tell God if I am the problem to change me. He never answers.

I don't mind being challenged. What I am doing isn't working obviously.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:42 pm

Question, when you did change things, and you weren't focusing on what your husband wasn't doing, did you see changes in your marriage? I ask that because when I did a major change, because of the Holy Spirit's conviction, I had no expectations that my husband had a part to do except I asked him to help me in my own changes, and I ended up being surprised at all the unexpected changes, for the good, that happened in him and in our marriage. I actually was a little shocked by it. I don't know if I would have noticed them if I had been focused on what my husband wasn't doing.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby Hobri » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:45 pm

I suppose I have convinced myself that focusing on your own needs in the bedroom is selfish. The Bible tells us not to be selfish. I figure if I focus on his needs and he focuses on mine we would both be pretty happy at the end of the night. Obviously, that is not how it is going.

It is hard to explain I suppose. I don't know how to put into words how I feel. I want him to worry about my pleasure as much as I worry about his if that makes sense. I don't want him to give me oral if he doesn't enjoy it or want to. I won't enjoy it at all if I think he doesn't want to be doing it.

I believe masturbating is wrong, but what is the difference between him using my body to get an orgasm and me masturbating?

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Re: RE: Re: Ready to give up

Postby love2 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:50 pm

There is the emotionally destructive marriage by Leslie vernick that might be worth checking out but I don't have enough information to say if you are in an emotionally destructive marriage or not.

I'd say if your husband is neglecting your sexual needs and still looking at porn it's possible that you are in an emotionally destructive marriage - there is a quiz you can take on her website to see, I believe.

I am working on my emotionally destructive marriage and honestly a lot of the conventional christian wisdom doesn't apply to my situation. For instance, 'trying harder' as you describe actually backfires because it fuels my husband's pride and sense of entitlement. Moreover, it helped him believe the like that everything wrong with our marriage was my fault, not his (why else would I try so hard if it wasnt all my fault anyway?). It turns out - it was my fault but not in the way I imagined. I was a co-dependent, passive doormat that would do literally anything to make him happy and he would return my thoughtfulness and dedication by being emotionally and verbally abusive. It was terrible. We are still working on things but I had to change my approach. For instance, now he knows that if he raises his voice at me I am spending a night at a hotel, stuff like that.

I sincerely hope this isn't your situation.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby Hobri » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:04 pm

SeekingChange wrote:Question, when you did change things, and you weren't focusing on what your husband wasn't doing, did you see changes in your marriage?

This is a hard question. There are some changes I have stuck with even without my husband changing his ways, and there are some changes I struggle to maintain. I get frustrated with everything too easily I guess.

love2 wrote:There is the emotionally destructive marriage by Leslie vernick that might be worth checking out but I don't have enough information to say if you are in an emotionally destructive marriage or not.

I will check it out. I do not think he is still looking at porn, but I stopped checking up on him a little over a year ago. Last year I found pictures of half naked women that he had been looking at, and it really hurt me. I decided I didn't want to be my husband's keeper anymore because it only caused me pain. I'd honestly rather not even know. It isn't going to stop him if he wants to look.

I will have to read on emotionally destructive marriages. He isn't verbally or physically abusive.

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Re: RE: Re: Ready to give up

Postby love2 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:11 pm

Jesus did a lot of things for 'self-care' that would conventionally be considered selfish by today's standards.

For instance, instead of continuing to heal the sick he went to go pray and spend time with the father (God) - he didn't burn himself out by continuing to minister.

Likewise, there were instances where the crowds we're becoming angry before the appointed time for him to be crucified and he went into hiding or avoided the crowds.

When he was being crucified he declared 'i thirst.'

In other words, Jesus had needs and he met those needs and he was not considered selfish for protecting himself.

I understand the concept of sacrifical love but if one of the greatest commandments is to love your neighbor as you love yourself you have to start making yourself a priority and stop feeling guilty about it. I am sure Jesus did not feel guilty for the times that he was taking care of himself instead of healing the sick.

Also, it is very important that you realize it is your perception that your husband is just using you as a masturbatory sleeve during sex. It's unlikely you have talked to him about his feelings to confirm if this is true. I would say say that he is probably desperate for sex and he is willing to take whatever you are offering and that sex had become a battle ground, unfortunately. That doesn't mean that he doesn't love you. But it is hard to discern his true motives when you cannot openly talk about sex.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby Hobri » Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:51 pm

love2, you are correct. I need to worry about my pleasure as much as my husband's. I have to learn to ask for what I want and not worry about whether or not he wants to do it.

I am up for discussing our issues. I need the conversation. He is not. I am not up for being ignored when I tell him my hurts and concerns. Makes me feel like poop. If I continue to press him for a discussion then I'm a nagging wife. I want to bring it up again, but I am scared he will ignore me once again. How do I approach him?

I do not reject him. It is not often that I tell him no for sex. Before I had my 3 month old, we had our regular sex days (Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday). Now, has been more just the weekends. I don't bring up sex issues often either. The reason I came here is because the other day he was going off about how I don't like sex, so I brought up why would I since I never get an orgasm. He did not respond. I then told him sometimes you have to have tough conversations in a marriage. He said he would do better and that was it. The next day I asked him to read an article on sex in a marriage because it explained how I felt. He never responded or brought it up. I don't know if he even read it, so I have been feeling hurt and ignored.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:05 pm

Hobri wrote:The reason I came here is because the other day he was going off about how I don't like sex, so I brought up why would I since I never get an orgasm. He did not respond.

My guess is you cut him at the core of who he is as a man and didn't realize it. I could be wrong, but my guess is your husband is hurting too, feeling like a failure and he believes he doesn't have what it takes. (Remember what I shared about my husband above.) When we hurt, we tend to hide. He may feel if he was to talk about it, it's an admission to his failure as a husband and a man. Be sensitive, loving and reassuring. Be careful not to point fingers but to come at it as "this is our issue to work on."
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: RE: Re: Ready to give up

Postby love2 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:33 pm

I still am going with the idea of taking responsibility of your own orgasm, your own pleasure, your own needs and emotions instead of thrusting it on your husband.

It's kind of like Jesus saying 'why can't these crowds tell that I just want to be left alone?' when he is just standing there in their presence and not removing himself from the situation.

If your husband is feeling overwhelmed, hurt or like he doesn't know what to do - it's unlikely that he will communicate these feeling to you because he doesn't feel emotionally safe. He probably is aware that something is wrong in the marriage bed but he needs your help to try and change that dynamic by you having enough sexual confidence to go after what you need to get yourself to the finish line. I think he would find it sexy and it would help take some of the pressure off.

Going back to my emotional destructive marriage, at first, I was really angry that my husband was treating me so poorly. Over time, that changed to me being so angry at myself for allowing myself to be treated so bad. He desperately needed me to hold him to a higher standard by refusing to accept the continued abuse and me standing up to him became the catalyst for change. In the same way, you can hold your husband to a higher standard sexually by making your sexual desires known, by pursuing them and asking your husband to help you along the way. So the biggest way for you to combat the selfishness is to invite him into a sexual relationship that is more mutually satisfying.

Please keep us updated and let us know how it goes.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby Hobri » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:42 pm

SeekingChange wrote:My guess is you cut him at the core of who he is as a man and didn't realize it.

Me lashing out about not having an orgasm wasn't the best thing to do. I definitely didn't do it in a loving way. I will have to try again, but for now I've had enough rejection to last me a while.

love2 wrote:Please keep us updated and let us know how it goes.

I will keep you updated. I'm hurt right now and don't want to be intimate with him, so for the time being I am going to give up in that area. If he looks at porn instead of coming to me to talk, then oh well. He would have done it anyway. Thank you for all of your advice.

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Re: RE: Re: Ready to give up

Postby love2 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:56 pm

Thank me if my advice actually works! Haha

But it is true - he is responsible for himself and his sin if he looks at porn, not your responsibility.

But I also feel like him bringing up that you don't like sex means your enjoyment of sex actually matters to him; although his approach was quite terrible.

I hope the two of you are able to get in a better place with communication and sex, many blessings.

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Re: Ready to give up

Postby poetess » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:41 pm

love2 wrote:I understand the concept of sacrifical love but if one of the greatest commandments is to love your neighbor as you love yourself you have to start making yourself a priority and stop feeling guilty about it. I am sure Jesus did not feel guilty for the times that he was taking care of himself instead of healing the sick.

This wasn't Jesus "focusing on Himself instead of other people." His primary focus in becoming man wasn't to focus on healing people; it was to preach the Gospel, train the disciples, and die and be raised for our sins. He was willing to heal people, but not to make that His primary focus at the expense of having time with His Father or preaching the Gospel. "Take care of yourself first" is not a fair application from this.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!


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