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Healthy Boundaries?

Addiction, fantasy, habitual masturbation ...
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WrenGrey
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Healthy Boundaries?

Post by WrenGrey »

What are some healthy boundaries, expectations,  and tools, for trying to salvage your marriage?  I could you some words of wisdom, because I have reached my end. How I managed to not pack a bag for him, and send him to his best friend's sofa, I don't know. Maybe I should have. After 20 years of struggling and begging, I am barely holding on to the desire to even try. There can be no more "trying" from him. His porn addiction seduces him into being abusive towards me, and I will take no more. He says that he wants to change, so anything you've got for us, I would appreciate. Otherwise, he's on a fast track to lose his family. 

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newwifenewlife
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by newwifenewlife »

I'm really saddened to hear that Wren. Both his addiction AND the destruction of your marriage. I think you said it, it starts with drawing a line in the sand, telling him what you will accept as a spouse to continue and what you will not tolerate any longer. I believe it should be done with a Christian counselor's help so that there's the potential to reconcile the relationship IF he gets the help and accountability he needs AND you get the support and encouragement you need.

I told my now-ex, I want a God-honoring Biblical marriage of spiritual, emotional and physical intimacy. Your behavior must stop because I will not share you with another man. She chose differently but we had been seeing a counselor before the truth came out, and I was willing to continue if she would've stopped, she chose to continue AND she filed for divorce.

 
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newwifenewlife
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by newwifenewlife »

It certainly seems like boundaries (no porn...counseling...accountability in person with Godly, spiritually mature men AND in ALL forms of technology...and whatever you believe he needs) and a separation are in order.  I would also say, no return to "normal" until you see intrinsic motivation and change. His behavior has gone on too long to just sweep it under the rug for the sake of reconciling. It MUST change for your marriage to be saved.

If...if...IF the relationship is to continue, it'll need to be on a new foundation because the old one is gone. It has been crumbling and destroyed. There is hope BUT it will only start when both of you want it and are willing to do the work and therefore, it must be on a new foundation with a NEW person in each of you because neither of you will be the same if you choose to continue the marriage. He'll have to change his behavior completely and you'll have to fall in love with him again and you'll be new and different because you've grown personally, will understand how you've enabled him over the years to get by with his addiction, and how you've grown and developed a backbone and won't go back to "the way it was" for the past 20 years.

Wren, you're turning a corner and a new life by ending your "business/marriage as usual". My prayers are with you because it will not be easy. May God bless you with wisdom in decision-making, provision for your financial needs, SAFE friends for your emotional encouragement and accountability, and courage and strength to face one day at a time with God and your family!

sd595
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by sd595 »

Praying for wisdom, healing, and that things improve.
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by Duchess »

Having just reviewed your other question about Contentment, I am going to go out on a limb and say the boundary you need is a good sturdy lock. If he is still doing the things you described in your answer--the surprise slapping (regardless of his stated intent), the name calling, belittling, the constant tethering of yourself to him--I think you definitely need to be apart from him, and soon. Others who are wiser and more experienced in this area than I will have better advice about how (whether to wait for a counselor to guide the process or to just kick him out and then get counselling) but that is behavior that should not be tolerated under any circumstances. Around here, people would be arrested for treating a dog the way you described--sudden slaps, purposeful conditioning to cower, overly tight restriction.

Sadly, there's no easy way forward, no matter what. I am so sorry you are going through this. I am also sorry for your loss, because in a way you have lost the man you love to an essential change to his nature through the use of porn, just as an egg that has been boiled has changed down to the molecule. Allow yourself to mourn. It is a sad loss. God can certainly restore him, but you don't have to continue enduring the abuse from the damaged man in the mean time.

I will keep you in my prayers!
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SongOfAngels
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by SongOfAngels »

Dear Wren, you cannot change anyone. They alone have to decide that for themselves as i know you well know. You cannot love or sacrifice enough for someone like that and i know it breaks your heart.  I do believe you should get out while you can to salvage any kind of self worth and dignity and to stop the depression from deepening any further.  Seek  help as soon as you can, i am praying for you :(
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DoveGrey
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by DoveGrey »

Wren, based on what you said in your Contentment thread, you are in an abusive relationship. The kind of behavior he is exhibiting is not all right. It is certainly emotionally abusive, and has already started crossing over into physical abuse.

He may say he wants to change, but he's got 20 years of actions that say otherwise. As you said in your other thread, there were red flags early on, but as these things tend to progress very slowly, it's no wonder you didn't notice them. However, those red flags say a lot about his personality, even back then. He's had 20 years to get worse. Changing something so deep seeded is going to be extraordinarily difficult for him to change. It will involve hundreds of hours of work, and I'm not exaggerating that.

Go ahead and set your boundaries, but also go see a licensed therapist who has experience with abusive relationships. Life does not have to be this way.
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WrenGrey
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by WrenGrey »

I think that one of the reasons that this has come to a head, the way that it has, is because I already started therapy on my own. After so many years of thinking that there was just something wrong with me, that I was being "crazy", it was a weight lifted from my shoulders to know that how I'm feeling is ... normal. Normal for someone who was abused as a child, and has struggled to identify that sort of behavior in my spouse.

My husband is deeply, deeply broken. He is a dead man walking, and I see that. I don't want to enable. I also don't want to take away every good thing in his life, so that he can't see anything worth living for. He is embarrassed and ashamed of his behavior. I think that at first, he just thought of it as a little bit of a kinky thing, that wouldn't cause any harm. Honestly, I suspect that he may be a covert narcissist. He can't seem to see beyond his own wants and desires, until someone hits him with reality so hard that it busts him wide open.  Our faith community is very small and tight-knit, but they think the world of him. This other side of him is reserved only for me. To everyone else, he is the epitome of generosity and kindness. He has been terrified to make himself vulnerable to them, for fear of losing all of his friends and community. And I... I've just been embarrassed, and have just thought that no one would believe me, because the man that I know is so very different from the one they think they know. I haven't wanted to bring him low, and publicly humble him before the people that he loves. I also didn't want anyone to look at me with pity, or to believe that I was just ... stupid. How is someone supposed to know what "healthy" looks like, and to understand boundaries very well, if they've never had someone truly love them, and to be kind?

As it stands, having a therapist in my corner has helped a lot. It's very beneficial to have someone who can throw a flag on the field for me, and let me know that something isn't right, and to help me learn what it looks like to be treated with dignity and respect, let alone love. I have confronted my husband about his porn addiction, the severity of the depravity, and how I will not allow him to act out that garbage on me. He has confessed things to me that have shocked me. The shock is just beginning to wear off a little, and I don't know how I feel about it all just yet. I do know that after his repeated attempts to control himself, and how it always just leads to hidden sin and lying, I don't trust him. I struggle with the idea of ever trusting him. I'm not sure how I can forgive him. After he confessed to me, I think that he thought he had done his duty, but I can offer him no forgiveness. My wedding band is in a drawer. I am living with a dead man, and I am afraid for him, because I do honestly and deeply love him. I love him enough hurt him, if it means breaking him down enough that he might lean on God to save him. Right now, he believes himself to be disgusting and vile, and I agree. I don't say the words, but I agree with his assessment. His heart is corrupt, and he's right to feel the weight of his sin.

Today, all of our electronics are being locked down. That's not enough though. I've been looking for the counsel of believers, who are knowledgeable enough with these matters, to be able to help us. So far, I haven't found anyone. I don't know why this isn't easier. THIS part shouldn't take deep digging, and trying to quietly network with trustworthy people, to help me find help. If I can't find anything more suitable, with the help of my believing friends, then I will do the best that I can with secular intervention. He will have to go to therapy. Whether it is with a believer (definitely preferable), or with someone who operates in the secular realm, he has to get mental health treatment. He has always failed before, because he thought that he could just deal with porn through sheer willpower, not only has that failed, but he's gotten more depraved over time. If he isn't willing to acknowledge that this is beyond his ability to handle on his own, and he refuses my request, then I will put him out of the house. This is scary for me, because I am physically injured, and unable to work. I have no idea how I will care for myself and our children, but I will. I am trying very hard to do the brave thing. If he doesn't want to go willingly, I'll do the one thing that he is absolutely terrified of; I'll tell all of our friends and family what is going on, and ask the men of our fellowship to peacefully help remove him from my home, before I call the police. I don't think it will go that far. I hope that it doesn't.

 
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SongOfAngels
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by SongOfAngels »

God bless you Wren, know that your heavenly Father sees and loves you. I don't know why all of the hardship we go through that is SO relentless (i'm not struggling w/the hardship part in my life right now but the sheer relentlessness of it all) but keep going, keep pressing in and it's especially important to gather a network of support around you, i'm praying for that and strength.
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Re: Healthy Boundaries?

Post by Duchess »

It was not this specific issue, but I do know how it feels to just feel like the burden and sadness and struggle will never end. When you feel overwhelmed, remember what you know:  God loves you and is right there with you, always. If you become tempted to just give in and let things return to status quo, look at your children and ask yourself if you want them to grow up thinking this is how a marriage should look. Are any of your kids boys? Do you want them to treat women like your husband treats you because you allowed it to continue? Do you want your girls to suffer the same treatment you have endured for 20 years? Of course you don't! Picture their faces when you feel like giving up.

You are very generous to want to avoid making him feel unendurable shame and embarrassment. I gather you are afraid if he feels too low, he will not have enough hope to work to get better.  Maybe you don't need to put it on a billboard or anything, but you definitely should NOT forgo support for yourself in order to shield him, and here is why: If he suffers from a mental illness (which we agree he does), and if he has worsened over the years (which you just said he has), at any given moment his current state of mental health--and his potential for violence and tendency toward abuse--is unknown. From one day to the next he can go from the state with which you are familiar to something multiple degrees worse. If you are still concerned for him, realize that reaching a point of illegal violence will be hurtful not only to innocent people (you, your kids, and maybe even others), but also to him. Help him by not protecting him from the consequences of his actions.
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