Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Any sexual problems or difficulties not listed in a specific section.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby plainsofabraham » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:15 pm

I got to thinking about this whole vasopressin/oxytocin thing. There is first the hypothesis/conclusion that the secretions of these hormones after sex creates the pair bond. Maybe the book addresses the following thoughts.

1) What happens in a marriage when this doesn't happen? Or doesn't happen on a regular basis?

2) We know that the endocrine system is complex and subject to dysfunction. Is it possible that chronic cheaters maybe have that kind of dysfunction? A Charlie Harper Syndrome, maybe?

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby littledinobug » Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:16 am

What happens in a marriage when this ^^ doesn't happen? Well I can think of one glaring example of one member on this board, whom is presently trying to rebuild his relationship with is wife.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby MarriedMenos » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:08 pm

I had only one GF before I married my DW. My x dumped me. I'd say I'm pretty loyal. I cant imagine sleeping around or even doing a long string of more short term relationships than I could count. Honestly I feel that if you aren't going to go the distance, its best to remain friends or aquaintences. I was friends with my DW for about 3 or 4 months bofore I ever considered becomming anything more than that. Anyway, IMHO the best part of the article was when it said that when a man hugs a woman for 20 seconds she is bonded to him. I'll be sure to try that on DW.

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Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Alistair » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:58 pm

Hi all what do people think of this article do you think it is true or false or something in between?

Here is the link: http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscienc ... bile=false

And if premarried promiscuity can "ruin" TMB What hope is given to people who are in that situation but who want to marry?

It seems to me that reading from the blog posts here some of the people who have been very, very promiscuous have managed to have a intimate MB with there spouse and some who have waited have had all sorts of difficulties!!

Be interested to hear peoples thoughts either way but particularly from people who were promiscuous before they were saved or who married a person who was promiscuous before they became a Christian.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby seeking perspective » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:28 pm

Although I agree with some of what is in this article (premarital sex can have a negative effect on marriage, bonding chemicals do powerful work, etc.), I think the conclusions are too extreme.

I am the first to admit that premarital promiscuity had a negative effect on my marriage for many years--but, as it turned out, it didn't ruin my chances.

I'm not so sure the cause-effect relationship discussed in the articles is on-target, either. The section on suicidal tendencies says that adolescents who are promiscuous are more likely to be suicidal than those who are not; it then goes on to state this as a reason to guide kids away from promiscuity. It is just as likely that the kids who are being promiscuous are the ones more likely to be suicidal in the first place. In other words, the promiscuity may be an effect of the suicidal tendencies rather than the cause of them. Although I wasn't suicidal, I was using sex as a way of seeking something that I should have been seeking from God. My sexual activity grew out of that--and it was when that stuff was addressed that my marriage began to be healed in significant ways. Promiscuity had less real effect on my marriage than the baggage that had led to it.

Alistair wrote:Be interested to hear peoples thoughts either way but particularly from people who were promiscuous before they were saved or who married a person who was promiscuous before they became a Christian.


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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Vanna » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:30 pm

Hubby and I were both promiscuous and unsaved. It does add baggage. I believe that there are significant hormones that God designed to keep us passionately connected, and I do believe we can warp our reaction to those by repeated abuse- we see similar problems when brains of porn users are scanned and tested.

I also believe God can heal and renew our bodies, souls, and minds, and make them new.

It is nice to see science backing up Gods design, but it would be simplistic to say that hormones alone are ruining marriages and causing suicide. Can they contribute? Yes. Marriage is a messy soup of two individuals of varied brokenness and retarded communication with fears and misperceptions joining together in a covenant (that they don't fully comprehend) and living a messy, unpredictable life in a world full of more damaged people. Lol. It's not a cake walk on the best days.

Divorce happens because it is hard to die to self, heal, and live in understanding. Suicide happens because brokenness exceeds the capacity to cling to hope and darkness eclipses all reason.

Life is challenging. I wish hormones could fix it all, instead they just add to the unpredictability.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Job29Man » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:53 pm

We have read on TMB about couples who had a lot of sex before marriage, and it was all hot and passionate, and then they got married and within a relatively short time the passion is gone from the wife and the husband is left scratching his head and heartbroken. And we have read where couples have recovered from that eventually, but if I'm remembering correctly it seems like the sex life doesn't heal for a lonnnnggg time, like 20-30 years. Maybe I'm remembering wrongly? Seems like I'm remembering stories of permarital hot, honeymoon good, 1st year OK, 3rd year almost dying............... 25 years finally back on track. That kind of thing.

I'd be interested to hear if there are couples who would say that they had lots of hot passionate sex before marriage, and then married, and their sex life remained at least pretty decent (given babies, jobs, etc) continuously up through years 5, 10, 15, 20, and did not crash and burn for a long time somewhere in there?
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby Alistair » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:07 pm

Hi Job Yes I have read some like this as well here on the TMB, I wonder what makes some marriages where there has been promiscuous sex in the past like this and other marriages free from this baggage?

And how would an engaged person be able to spot the difference before they marry! Save a lot of grief being able to deal with the baggage before getting married first rather than deal with 10-20 years of pain.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby jokerman » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:41 pm

People deal with their pasts in different ways. You could take two people who had major business failures in their 30s and perhaps one person never got over it, while another used the experience to go on to greater success. Same with marriages in which one or more partners had premarital sex. The idea that your marriage is toast if you fooled around before marriage is such a devastating thing to say to someone, and even the most basic survey of a few hundred people would immediately disprove the theory.

It would also be interesting to study how premarital sex impacts married males vs. married females. Is the general consensus that women have a harder time reconciling a promiscuous past than men?

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby mamame » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:24 am

Job29Man wrote:We have read on TMB about couples who had a lot of sex before marriage, and it was all hot and passionate, and then they got married and within a relatively short time the passion is gone from the wife and the husband is left scratching his head and heartbroken.


Or the other way around. I don't think it's so much that we had sex, as it was our overall heart condition and baggage we had that put us in the place to have sex.

As in we were not very spiritually mature and THAT led to a whole host of marriage troubles. A mature well balanced Christian isn't going to be cavalier about pre marital sex.

Eta
There are a couple of things I don't like about the article.
1. If we just focus on the bonding teenage logic would say "well this is the person I want to be bonded to" or "we plan to get married one say, so it won't hurt our marriage because we are just bonding with each other"

2. The word ruin. Ick. This thought factored into my promiscuity. I was already ruined so I might as well go all out. I find out disrespectful to our Savior. We are only ruined if we turn away from Him and His healing work.

I like the sciencen as one part of the whole picture. But not as a flashy attention grabbing headline.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby poetess » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:09 am

I don't think I'd be too quick to exclude the link between premarital sex and the bad results, that the promiscuity at least makes emotional fallout worse. That is, that even a kid with precarious mental health is going to find it worse to add sexual contact to his or her life.

Years ago I had a friend who was concerned in teaching kids about healthier ways to relate to one another, and one of her reasons to be concerned about promiscuity (besides its clear immorality) was that she had noticed the link between teen breakups and teen suicide. Young kids "commit" to one another with intense, deep relationships cemented by sex, and then one dumps the other . . . and the one who got dumped (perhaps rejected cruelly, perhaps just set aside without a word for the other person to date someone else) can't handle the rejection and kills himself/herself. She noticed such a pattern to teen suicides coming right after a breakup that it scared her. Yes, some of those would have been extremely unstable teens who might have killed themselves anyway--but I can't help but think that among their number were some lonely kids who finally found "true love" and gave their bodies to each other, and then experienced deep regret upon the relationship ending.

I've long noted that on this site, many who engaged in oral sex before marriage come on here afterward. Either it's her saying "I loved it before we were married; what's wrong with me?" Or it's him saying, "She pretended to like it before we married, and now she won't do it or she does it but says she hates it. She deceived me into marrying her!"

It seems that for many women, perhaps especially Christian women who believe premarital sex to be wrong, engaging in sex before marriage makes the post-marriage bond harder. If they "only" did oral, then it is oral sex that is difficult afterward. I haven't seen evidence of premarital sex affecting men the same way (though I have heard one or two stories along that line).

I know it worked the other direction for me--my husband never ever sought sexual touch before we married. When I told him one particular touch was hard for me, and it needed to wait for marriage, he stopped touching me that way. (It wasn't an innately sexual touch, but apparently my shoulder blades are a hot spot for me.) As we drew near to marriage and he never once let his hands stray, my trust for him grew greatly. Years before marriage I had read that if a man keeps pushing the boundaries and she has to keep pushing him away, he is unknowingly training her to resist his sexual touch. I experienced the opposite to that--since his every touch was proper and careful, I learned to trust it. When his hands finally "strayed" on our wedding day, my whole being delighted in that new touch.

I would say, though, that the article goes way too far in using the word "ruined." I would use a milder word, such as "hurt." Premarital sexual indulgence hurts people and hurts marriage.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby SLS » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:10 am

This study just confirms what we have known for a long time. Premarital sex has hurtful emotional, physical, and spiritual consequences. When you do something outside God's design bad things can happen. That said I think it is very important to avoid the term "ruin." No one is ruined when they turn to the grace of God. We have all sinned sexually in some way (I know I lusted after a lot of women when I was younger) but we aren't "ruined" if we choose to repent and receive forgiveness from God.

Job29Man wrote:We have read on TMB about couples who had a lot of sex before marriage, and it was all hot and passionate, and then they got married and within a relatively short time the passion is gone from the wife and the husband is left scratching his head and heartbroken?


Something I think is going on with these couples is that they have never really dealt with their premarital sin. Some may have never acknowledged that it was wrong and their consciences are burdening them. For others they may have acknowledged it but never talked about it and worked through it and have feelings of guilt and shame that will not go away.

The Bible says that if we confess our sins God is faithful to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. You cannot change the past and change what you did but you can change what you do going forward. A couple can choose repentance and forgiveness instead of guilt and shame.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby ghostrider » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:32 am

My DW and I were the opposite - we kissed, cuddled and hugged during our engagement, but never even went to 2nd base. No dry humping, nothing under the clothes, never removed our clothes. Sex was fine and good and plentiful on our honeymoon and the month following, but then she got pregnant and very sick and everything changed.

Years later we have a some regrets about how our entire engagement was so controlled by parents (less so than some others probably, but a lot more than "normal"), how we never properly addressed the BC issue, but just took a naive "wait and see" approach and got pregnant sooner than desired and missed out on a lot of what we would have liked to have had early on. My DW has made comments about how she kinda wishes she had been more seductive and confident, maybe given me a show or something during our engagement before she ended up pregnant and her body changed. We are both mostly happy that we refrained from intercourse or even oral, but maybe its the whole idea that there's an entire realm of sexy play between a standup kiss in the driveway and full-on intercourse which today's youth engage in that we skipped completely during our engagement. And we sometimes wonder what would have/could have been.

I understand that if we had gone a lot further before marriage we probably would have crossed some definite "sin" lines, and maybe would now regret much of what we did. But I guess my point is that even though we tried to do everything the "right way", we still aren't sure sometimes if we would do it the same way again.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby ledgemoor » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:01 pm

Great article--I am always interested in anything showing that science backs scripture. One of the saddest things I have ever seen is a YouTube video where this girl giving sex advice to other girls mentions that it is difficult to sever the nerve between the heart and [vulva]. This person is not at all a believer -- her YouTube channel encourages promiscuity. This article just quantifies what everyone, deep-down, really already knows.

As for the use of the term "ruined", I agree with the article. It says premarital sex "could" ruin your changes at a successful marriage, not that it will. But can we say that premarital sex "can not" ruin a marriage? God forgives and heals, but not everyone takes advantage of of that. Poetess, I would say that premarital sex "will" hurt. You cannot violate natural laws without consequence -- I'm thinking about what happened to me the other day when I took a turn too fast on my bicycle :D.

Poetess wrote:Years before marriage I had read that if a man keeps pushing the boundaries and she has to keep pushing him away, he is unknowingly training her to resist his sexual touch
Good point. And resist sexual experimentation and growth too.

It seems that for many women, perhaps especially Christian women who believe premarital sex to be wrong, engaging in sex before marriage makes the post-marriage bond harder. If they "only" did oral, then it is oral sex that is difficult afterward. I haven't seen evidence of premarital sex affecting men the same way (though I have heard one or two stories along that line).
We read plenty of cases here where it is the husband who is withholding sex or not as adventurous in bed as the wife would like. Men have hormones working in their favor more so than women. For most men, the need to ejaculate periodically and the desire to have sex is a given. Women have to be more deliberate about their sexuality. Men can generally have sex under far less than ideal conditions. The man's more urgent need puts the wife in a better position than the husband to bargain for what she wants, i.e. oral sex. But I would be surprised if the scenario you relate does not also affect men.

As for suicide. It sure makes sense that sex makes breakups more traumatic, and teens are in a high-risk group for suicide anyway.

Job29Man wrote:I'd be interested to hear if there are couples who would say that they had lots of hot passionate sex before marriage, and then married, and their sex life remained at least pretty decent (given babies, jobs, etc) continuously up through years 5, 10, 15, 20, and did not crash and burn for a long time somewhere in there?
Fortunately, by the grace of God, I think that most couples who have had premarital sex go on to have good marriages. Several years ago the pastor of a Southern Baptist megachurch lamented from the pulpit that "nearly all" couples who come to him for premarital counseling are doing it. I suspect many of these marriages are good and the couple enjoys a good sex life. As for never crashing and burning somewhere along the line, I personally can attest that waiting doesn't prevent that. Most marriages are rocky at one point or another.

There are different levels of premarital sex, affecting the bonding process to different degrees. It ranges from doing it with a fiancee who you go on to marry, to doing it with a few lovers (probably the most common scenario among Christians now days), to being truly promiscuous and having "meaningless" sex with many strangers. The good news is that we aren't slaves to our hormones. A promiscuous person can learn to sever the heart-genital nerve pathways. He can also relearn the connection.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:21 pm

I always have a hard time believing that if you and a partner who you are going to marry are sexually indulgent before marriage that it's ruined. It is a sin, but it makes no sense that it could affect your marriage if you and your partner are both the only people you've been sexual with. I can see how it would desensitize you to the connection, possibly, if you've done it loosely w/ several people, but I think that it's not a marriage or relationship breaker to do it with 1 person, unless one of them is pressuring the other to do things they do not feel comfortable with. I think it's complicated and depends on many factors.

I was never a promiscuous person, or even that sexual, really, until I was with my exboyfriend who vigorously pursued me, at age 19. before that I never was into dating, never the flirty kinda girl, kinda sheltered, valued modesty and that i wasn't promiscuous or boy crazy like other girls. I tried to be a good girl and took pride in that... and thought dating and sex was for bad girls... We kinda did 2nd base stuff, because it made me feel desired and beautiful (i had such low self esteem), and we thought we'd get married. I did guard my heart and body and wouldnt even kiss him for months... He told me it was a good thing, and God liked us to be sexual with each other (plus it was His will for us to be married. :x according to ex Bf who married some other girl w/in a year after we broke up btw ), but we never had oral, we never snuggled naked... he did touch me down there over clothes... We did not get married (thank the LORD!!!). But "allowing" myself to be sexual with this guy, sort of awakened sexual feelings/needs i was probably repressing or something because suddenly i actually desired sexual things when i never did before... Then i met my husband, Fox. He had been more sexual than me, and i was kinda more sexual than i'd been, so we kissed the day we became boyfriend and girlfriend and would make out all the time for a long time. Then pretty soon, he started touching me while making out, and i pushed him away at first, but after a bit i liked it... then one day he asked if he could take my underwear off and he gave me oral and i was a very happy recipient... anything sexual was thrilling for me, as guilty as i felt for receiving it. I thought i loved it... So I had not much sexual experience and wasn't that "indulgent" other than w/ DH. DH had been sexual with several people (although technically a virgin), and lots of porn. I think i have a pretty healthy sexuality (other than a few issues), and he has had more issues in TMB than I have.

i'd say... re: oral, i guess i realized once everything was on the table, that it was more the thrill i got doing sexual things why i liked it and i have trouble accepting it now... not sure if if it's related to "indulging in it" before marriage. Other than oral which I hate and don't receive anymore (didn't give it much before marriage cause me so much guilty more than receiving, plus i was grossed out at first, both of which would turn me off to that and now i love to give it!!!), i mostly think i have pure, positive view of sex and very much enjoy it and think it's the best gift ever even though we were sexual before marriage. I know we are forgiven, and I can move past that. I don't lay there thinking "oh no we sinned sexually before we were married so our TMB is cursed!!"... i just can't see how it could ruin it long term (might be a different story if i was having sex w/ 10 guys before marriage...)

Overall, i think whether or not and how much sexual indulgence affects a future marriage, depends on many factors and both individuals. I think in many cases, it does not, and if so, of course the Lord can restore what was broken. He is a God who delights in turning the broken into the beautiful.
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby doug-h » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:30 pm

I think it's a good cautionary note, but I don't believe it is prophetic.
There are plenty of examples of good marriages coming out of that turmoil, just as there are examples of those who did everything right, and have failing marriages.

It has also been reported that subjects from broken homes are more likely to suffer broken marriages.

There are a thousand things that can and do go wrong in a marriage. It is a very complex arrangement between two flawed people.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:55 pm

^^ yes... we have issues as anyone who reads here knows (who doesn't have issues), but honestly if we made it to our wedding night completely pure (other than the porn, i mean w/ each other) i thinks we would have had the same exact issues. I don't believe it was caused by being sexual before marriage unless i'm missing something...
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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:08 pm

Sin negatively effects things, that includes stepping outside of God's plan of sex within marriage ....if you don't think so now, I believe your lessons will be coming.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby doug-h » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:45 pm

I wasn't debating that. I was simply pointing out that it was one sin, among many that might impact a marriage. Some you have control of, as they are your own, and some belong to another person all together.

To say that one leads to a particular consequence, is to disregard all the others, and to disregard Grace.

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Re: Sexually Indulgent Now, Marriage Ruined Later?

Postby SeekingChange » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:48 pm

I was reply more to this line of thinking...
FoxluvsBunny wrote:It is a sin, but it makes no sense that it could affect your marriage if you and your partner are both the only people you've been sexual with.

^This, I have experience in.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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