So this happened

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So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:50 pm

Several hours after some afternoon delight with my husband, I decided that I'd like some more. So I initiated, doing the things my husband has indicated would work: groping, telling him directly what I wanted, and taking his hand to walk him to the bedroom. And he said . . . no.

As we were getting ready for bed tonight, I asked him how he would like me to respond in this situation in the future. In our conversation, he said the following things:

..."I would feel like you're just using me as a masturbation object."
..."You should wait until I'm in the mood to initiate."
..."We just did it a few hours ago and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it."
..."It's like you're saying I don't satisfy you enough."
..."It would be so much easier if you just came upstairs to take care of it yourself and could leave me out of it."

(Hmm. Where have I heard those words before?)

He also made a couple comments about things I "always say"--things I haven't said in over five years.

I think he was as puzzled to hear himself say all this as I was. He has said many times that he barely remembers what it was like during the years of my refusal, yet my old words were right there at the surface for him to use.

It was quite odd for both of us. I've made a point of not having any conflict in the bedroom to the point of taking him out into the hall if we need to finish a difficult conversation. Yet there we were, in bed and on the verge of an argument about sex.

He is still healing from surgery and is adjusting to a different medication protocol. We are both experiencing a great deal of stress due to some things with our son. We have both been giving each other some slack on stuff because neither of us is at our best right now.

At the moment, I'm mostly amused and confused, but his comments about things I always say and always do (but that I haven't actually said or done in 5+ years) have me wondering if this is more than stress and is a sign of an area where I still need to rebuild his trust in me.

Does anyone have some insight for me on how to process this or how to help him approach the situation?
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: So this happened

Postby doug-h » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:29 am

SP

Why don't you just let it pass for a few days, and then revisit it.
You mentioned the stress he is under, and quite honestly, stress has a way of bringing out things that might need adressed, in the worst possible time to do so.

For me, it can bring back dreams of unpleasant things from the past, literally what I would call "unfinished business". I would imagine I am not alone in that regard. If it can do it while you are sleeping, I imagine it could easily work to the front of the subconscious while awake.

It may be that after a few days, he is the one who brings it up.

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Re: So this happened

Postby SeekingChange » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:28 am

I have no ideas, I am in a totally different place of growth :shock: :roll: ("growth" is the "kind" or "positive" way to put it.) I am praying for the Lord to give you wisdom on what to do.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, find comfort, survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years...then she did something new.

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Re: So this happened

Postby happilymarriedkate » Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:35 am

I agree with the "give it a few days" approach due to the stress from the surgery and current family dynamics. However, I understand your sense of urgency because he is bringing up issues from the past. But, just the fact that he declined your offer (which is unusual for him, correct?) indicates to me, that it is stress.
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Re: So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:09 am

It occurred to me this morning that this is part of a larger pattern of my husband learning to recognize that our sex life is about me, too, and not just about him. It took me some time to recognize that myself. Over the past six months I've been intentional about expressing what I need and not thinking we are done just because he is done. This has challenged some decades-long sexual patterns and has shed some light on a couple areas of self-centeredness in my husband. I've watched him struggle as he catches glimpses of things he needs to work on in himself. His comments last night were an extension of this larger issue.

I will sit on it for a few days and see how it plays out.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: So this happened

Postby Job29Man » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:22 am

seeking perspective wrote:..."I would feel like you're just using me as a masturbation object."
..."You should wait until I'm in the mood to initiate."
..."We just did it a few hours ago and I wouldn't be able to enjoy it."
..."It's like you're saying I don't satisfy you enough."
..."It would be so much easier if you just came upstairs to take care of it yourself and could leave me out of it."


Holy stereotype flip-flops Batman! :shock:
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Re: So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:44 am

Job29Man wrote:
Holy stereotype flip-flops Batman! :shock:


No kidding.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: So this happened

Postby Hiswifeagain » Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:59 am

As far as I remember this is a new dynamic for you guys because he's not responded to your hints when you've tried in the past. He couldn't do that this time. It maybe stress or it may be your dh's turn to learn sexual generosity.

Check out the love and respect podcast this week.
The specifics are different, but the principles apply I think.


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Re: So this happened

Postby DW of 2P » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:28 am

I don't have any insights but can attest to how hurtful it would be to hear that, and yea, what a flip flop! I agree with the others that things are said under stress and are better addressed later.

Question. Guys are used to responding to the testosterone coursing through them, right? Woman (not all) tend to have to learn to relax and engage from more of a mental standpoint. So if your DH is under stress due to family dynamics and surgery, his normal testosterone levels could be stunted. Therefore he is responding like a woman who refuses because she isn't "feeling" it right then. He hasn't had to learn to be mindful and generous when he doesn't "feel" like it. Do you think that's really what's going on? Interesting isn't it how the same things come up in the other partner when the juices go dormant?

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Re: So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:40 am

The testosterone is a factor. Somehow his T treatment had got forgotten in the medication shuffle, and he only started back on it a couple days ago--and the stress does create an additional challenge. This was a new dynamic for both of us, that's for sure.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: So this happened

Postby Unfulfilled » Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:53 pm

^^^

Ding, ding, ding, you have a winner!

Also stress can reduce T. So you have a double whammy, plus the surgery and changed meds! Gee whiz his body is a mess right now.

Flip, flop is right! Holy cow! And "Ouch!"
Last edited by Unfulfilled on Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:19 pm

Unfulfilled wrote: And "Ouch!"


Fortunately, there wasn't much of this ^^^. I do understand the issues that came into play, and I understand that it takes him a while to recharge. It was a new situation, and he didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't take it personally. But man, it was bizarre.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:43 pm

This evening I asked my husband if he'd thought at all about what had happened the other night. He didn't know what I was talking about. :( When I reminded him, he said he thought we'd already talked about it and didn't know why I "keep bringing it up over and over." (This was the first time I said anything about it since then.) He can't comprehend why I am even asking him about it since it had to do with his physical ability (to be aroused at all, or to finish? I'm not sure) and therefore was not under his control.

For many years, he wanted me to do things with my hands and mouth even when I wasn't interested for myself. I pointed this out, along with the fact that I have come to understand a joy in giving even when I know my body simply won't cooperate. I said I've worked toward an attitude of sexual generosity and that I am confused by his response. I've learned to be giving even when I know my body won't cooperate. I reminded him that I did what he himself has been telling me to do ("you can initiate any time you want").

He was starting to get defensive, so I asked him to spend some time thinking about what had happened because I need some help making sense of it. What it comes down to, I'm afraid, is that in his mind, our sex life is still about him.

Sigh...
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Re: So this happened

Postby cbmike » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:01 am

I don't think former refusal really has anything to do with your current situation.
seeking perspective wrote: He has said many times that he barely remembers what it was like during the years of my refusal, yet my old words were right there at the surface for him to use.

I don't think he's deliberately repeating words he learned from you. His words are simply a reflection of the same feelings most people experience when they're asked for more sex than they want to give. This is simply the first season he's found himself being asked for sex when he doesn't want it. It's simply an area he hasn't had to grow in. So I agree that he has sexual self-centeredness that he needs to deal with, but I wanted to emphasize that this is not a situation you created.
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Re: So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:06 am

cbmike wrote: . . . but I wanted to emphasize that this is not a situation you created.


Thank you for saying that. I know that, of course, but hearing him say "it's like you always used to say" kind of threw me off.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: So this happened

Postby SLS » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:09 am

As cbmike said this really has nothing to do with your prior refusal. He still would have said no if you had had daily sex with him since you were married. He is using the words you "always used to say" as a convenient justification of his selfish action.

He needs to see that sex is about more than just him. In my marriage there are times when we have both had an O that I want to stop having sex and just cuddle or go clean up and do something else. I try to make sure though that regardless of how I feel I ask DW if she wants another O. Sometimes she does and sometimes she doesn't but the important point is that regardless of how I feel or whether or not I can get an erection I try to satisfy her needs. Am I perfect in this? Heck no, but I do try.

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Re: So this happened

Postby Nvr2Late » Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:31 am

Isn't it interesting how the Lord seems to allow little crises like this to bring up issues that are dormant or haven't been dealt with?

His seeming touchiness on this subject would, to me, indicate pretty much what CBMike is saying. And, if he's in a more vulnerable space than usual (what with T issues and post-surgical stuff), then it's closer to the surface.

The thing I'd address, given the right timing, would be the "you always" statements. That tends to belie some hidden undealt with resentment, IMO. I'd try to carefully encourage him to listen to what he's saying and dig deeper.
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Re: RE: Re: So this happened

Postby seeking perspective » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:16 pm

Nvr2Late wrote:Isn't it interesting how the Lord seems to allow little crises like this to bring up issues that are dormant or haven't been dealt with?


Yup. I've found that little crises in our sex life usually highlight something that needs to be worked on outside the bedroom as well.

I let this sit for a while so I could work through my feelings and frustration . After a few times of totally spontaneous just-for-me encounters that were initiated by him, I was even more confused by the fact that he had willingly offered what he had refused when I asked.

I asked him to help me understand, and he did start to think about it. What he's figured out so far is that he was feeling a lot of pressure to give me an orgasm, which is often elusive for me. He never feels that pressure when we are having a mutual encounter, but something about me asking and clearly wanting an O made him feel like it was some kind of high-stakes performance review or something. He has never had to deal with my sexual expectations before, and it threw him.

He has agreed to dig a bit more into it. Meanwhile, I am working on making him more aware of my sexuality as something that is for me and not just for him, and I am saying more about sexual sensations I enjoy that are not orgasm-related. After many years when both of us saw my sexuality as responsive and him-centered, it's going to take a while to shift that mindset.
You turned my wailing into dancing . . .
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Re: So this happened

Postby Vanna » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:37 pm

Nice job working through this and figuring it out more. As long as you both keep learning and breaking down the old strongholds and habits together, you'll be amazed at the breakthroughs ahead.
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