We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Any sexual problems or difficulties not listed in a specific section.
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IM_a_Farmwife
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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby IM_a_Farmwife » Thu May 05, 2016 7:31 pm

My girlfriend had a healthy baby boy last year without fertility drugs. She was 48 years old. All things are possible with God.

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Thu May 05, 2016 8:28 pm

poetess wrote:By the way, I'm not sure that avoiding red meat is necessarily the healthiest choice for someone attempting pregnancy, from some things I've heard. She doesn't need a diet too low in fat. Also, I know women who make a point of being on prenatal vitamins any time they are potentially going to get pregnant.

But, yeah, late thirties with a history of being on the pill isn't necessarily the highest fertility chances.



I'm so truly sorry for all of this that you and your wife have been through and I pray that He gives you a healthy child. I agree w/ what Poetess said. We are thinking of TTC in the next year, so i'm starting to look into getting us (esp my body) ready, esp given I already know that have endocrine issues and suspect we aren't that fertile (we aren't great text book rule followers, so we loosely do FAM and nothing has happened... tho we've had a few months it could have been a possibility). I am very minded like your wife. Pretty holistic minded in general; kinda an ingredient nazi in some ways. We use FAM too. I have been reading some about health and preconception and pregnancy and I've read that a good amount of healthy saturated animal fats is very important for both fertility and growing a baby. I'm not one to speak, as i hate red meat, and have no kids, but it's just what I have heard. I am just starting to read this stuff, but apparently low fat lowers fertility according to some research.

Have you thought of embryo adoption? It's much less expensive, and can give your wife the option of actually carrying and birthing the child you adopt.

Praying for you guys.
Last edited by FoxluvsBunny on Thu May 05, 2016 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Thu May 05, 2016 8:32 pm

IM_a_Farmwife wrote:My girlfriend had a healthy baby boy last year without fertility drugs. She was 48 years old. All things are possible with God.

Praise Him!
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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Thu May 05, 2016 8:50 pm

ps: i know that w/ short luteal phases (mine are slightly short) and long periods, sounds like wife might be estrogen dominant and have low progesterone. Progesterone can affect the ability to sustain a pregnancy. I think she should get a mid luteal phase progesterone reading to see if that's an issue, and if it is, treat w/ either P cream or bioidentical progesterone. Might help balance things. Esp as a natural health and fertility awareness appreciator would she consider going to a natural type of doctor who specializes in fertility and hormonal issues. I know it's probably expensive, but it might make all the difference. Blessings!!
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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby JSJoplin » Fri May 06, 2016 10:15 am

IM_a_Farmwife wrote:My girlfriend had a healthy baby boy last year without fertility drugs. She was 48 years old. All things are possible with God.


Wow...that's great! (And encouraging.) Thanks for sharing that. :D

JJ

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby JSJoplin » Fri May 06, 2016 10:46 am

I want to thank everyone for their concern/input regarding my wife's diet and fertility issues. I can assure everyone she does not eat a low-fat diet. It's just that her diet isn't made up of animal byproducts...for the most part. We do eat meat, but when we do, it's grass fed beef, no added hormones, dyes, filler, etc. She and I get plenty of daily healthy fats from eating an abundance of avocado, nut butters, coconut and olive oils, grass fed organic butter, etc. My wife isn't a hardcore vegan, eating "sticks and berries" and hoping to somehow stay healthy.

We've been to multiple doctors, including fertility specialists, natural doctors, and regular MDs. She's had multiple painful examinations, tests, etc...and all of them show that she is ovulating, healthy, and physically capable of carrying a baby full term. I've been tested, and I have healthy, normally functioning sperm, and apparently deliver a larger than average "offering", so apparently I'm delivering plenty of healthy chances each time we try. She's been on Progesterone, and she's been on prenatal vitamins for over 4 years. We've looked into every possible way of making this happen, read countless books, websites, and studies...I mean, you don't struggle with this for years and not end up inadvertently becoming an expert of sorts for what isn't happening in your life. It's been a real struggle.

Last night I came home from work and found my wife sobbing in our bedroom. She'd received a text from a close friend of hers that she was pregnant with her 5th child. A child her doctors had warned her was dangerous to try for given the difficulties she'd had with her last pregnancy. And this couple...all they have to do is take a vacation every year and a half, and they get pregnant. And she apparently struggled with infertility for 5 years leading up to their first child. All the sudden, it just started happening. And of course, my wife and I are happy for them, but also frustrated that a family that already has 4 kids (and struggle to keep up) are adding another so easily. And we lost ours and can't seem to make another no matter how hard we try.

So she talked and cried for an hour. And I listened. And I think we're both coming to the same place where we're wanting our life together to change. We've both hit the wall. She said she wants to start living again...beyond the grief and constant reminders of loss and what we don't have. She asked me to get us tickets to see a band we both love and were part of one of our first dates, almost 22 years ago. Our anniversary is coming up, and she said she wanted to plan a beach day with me so she could sit next to me on the beach, "wearing next to nothing" and "drive me wild all day..." THAT is more the woman I remember. The one I married. Maybe we just need to find a balance between our past and our present, and still try and "make a family" without it overtaking everything else in our lives.

JJ

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Sun May 08, 2016 6:42 pm

Oh JS,
My heart just breaks for you and your wife. ::bh I am so sorry you have had to walk this terribly difficult journey. :( :( :( I am praying in Jesus name for peace for you both on this day that I'm sure is SO hard for her, and I'm sure you as well. I pray for direction for you guys. For balance of the past with the present.
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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Sun May 08, 2016 6:56 pm

JSJoplin wrote:Last night I came home from work and found my wife sobbing in our bedroom. She'd received a text from a close friend of hers that she was pregnant with her 5th child. A child her doctors had warned her was dangerous to try for given the difficulties she'd had with her last pregnancy. And this couple...all they have to do is take a vacation every year and a half, and they get pregnant. And she apparently struggled with infertility for 5 years leading up to their first child. All the sudden, it just started happening. And of course, my wife and I are happy for them, but also frustrated that a family that already has 4 kids (and struggle to keep up) are adding another so easily. And we lost ours and can't seem to make another no matter how hard we try.


That's so hard :( i'm tearing up reading your post.
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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby JSJoplin » Mon May 09, 2016 1:55 pm

FoxluvsBunny wrote:Oh JS,
My heart just breaks for you and your wife. ::bh I am so sorry you have had to walk this terribly difficult journey. :( :( :( I am praying in Jesus name for peace for you both on this day that I'm sure is SO hard for her, and I'm sure you as well. I pray for direction for you guys. For balance of the past with the present.


Thanks for praying FloxluvsBunny.

Yesterday was really difficult with it being Mothers Day. She had been dreading it all week, and even though our church doesn't make any sort of fuss about the "holiday", plenty of people within our church do, and she wanted to stay home. And we made a plan that I'd cut the grass, go and get us lunch, and then we'd sit in our back-yard and have a picnic and a fire in our fire-pit. This is what she wanted. But when it got close to me going outside to start work, she changed her mind and said she wanted to go out, but somewhere where their wouldn't be families celebrating everywhere. So I suggested lunch at a health food restaurant she likes, and then taking her shopping for new bra's and underwear, the focus of which would be on her and not mothers day. Now...hear me out on this. This wasn't a "sexy" type of suggestion. My wife doesn't wear sexy underwear. Her underwear is black, standard cut, and functional. All of it. And she's really bad about not getting herself the undergarments she needs when it's time to replace them. It's something from her childhood, and it's related to her finding her mom's "Fredrick's Of Hollywood" catalog as a young girl and being "grossed out by it"...it's all very vague. Women are always asking my wife where she got her outfits, complementing her on her style, etc. But under those clothes are typically worn out black bra's and panties. Earlier in the week, I noticed as we were getting ready for bed that the panties she was wearing looked like they were really needing to be replaced, and gently suggested that she take an afternoon and go get something pretty and new for herself. She made some excuses, said she didn't have time, and then reminded me she liked buying black underwear. And as usual, I just shrugged and said, "Ok...whatever you want to do."

Here's the thing: We've been married almost 16 years. In that time, there have been 2 instances (3 according to her) where I've asked her to try something different. Once was early in our marriage when thongs were super prevalent. My wife looks amazing from behind, and I wanted to see what she'd look like in a thong. She bought one. Wore it once. The end. The second time was after some awkward discussion, she said I could buy her a piece of lingerie. As someone old enough to have grown up with the JC Penny catalog, I always thought the ladies in the underwear section looked pretty in their garters and stockings. So I got her a garter/stocking set. She wore them once, for less than 5 minutes, and they went in the trash because she didn't like them. The 3rd time (according to her) was 8 years ago, on a weekend trip. She had somehow forgot to pack underwear, so we had to go shopping. According to her we went to Target and "I picked out what she bought." I have zero memory of this happening like she describes. None. In fact, it's completely counter to ANYTHING we've ever done in our marriage. I remember her needing underwear, me taking her, and her buying 3 pair of cheap underwear that were pink or orange or something, because that's all they had in her size and she only needed them for the short trip. But I didn't pick them. And I have no idea what ever happened to them either, because she certainly doesn't wear them. She doesn't wear any kind of sexual lingerie either. And I feel like I pervert for asking. So I don't. I don't buy her anything, and I don't ask for anything because it seems to cause her emotional distress, and then blowback on me, that why bother? It's just "easier" to resign myself to yet one more seemingly normal thing between a man and wife that we don't get to do together.

Back to yesterday. So I make the suggestion of lunch and taking her underwear shopping, and she liked the idea. But then she added in, "But I want to pick out the underwear." And I said, "Yeah...of course. When have you ever NOT picked out your underwear?" And she brought up the trip 8 years ago, we had a brief debate as to whether that had ever even happened...which ended with me shrugging and saying "OK, whatever you want." And we left. Lunch was fine and uneventful. She wanted to go to Target to shop...so we did. As soon as we walked in, she saw an outfit hanging on a display and went to look. I followed her, and watched her pick up two of them, identical except for color, and asked me which one I liked better. I told her it didn't matter what I thought, and that I didn't want to "do this" with her. She put both outfits down and asked me what I meant. And I told her that for as long as we'd been together, every time we shopped and she asked me what I liked, she always bought the opposite of what I told her. She thought about it, started laughing, and said, "you are absolutely right!" So I said, "Right...so what difference does it make. You decide and get the one you want." And then knowing she didn't want me around for the underwear shopping, I told her I was going to walk around and left.

So I found a seat in the furniture department, texted her my location, and sat there for the next hour and a half. When she had finished shopping, she approached me again with both outfits and a bunch of underwear and sat them on the chair next to me. And again she held both outfits up, and asked me which one I liked better. I pointed to a nightstand directly behind her and said, "I like that nightstand." She didn't find my answer funny and asked me again about the outfits. So I told her again, "I don't want to do this with you. Buy the one you like, that's what you're going to do anyway." And this went on for a minute or two...back and forth. And in case anyone is concerned, at no point did this get heated. This was all done with normal tone and volume. (That's how 99% of these conversations take place.) Finally I relented (sort of) and said that I wasn't going to give my preference, but that there was one color that looked like the one she'd wear over the other. She said she agreed (!) and then asked if she could have it for mothers day. I said she didn't have to have a reason to get it, but if that's what she wanted, to get it. So then she picked up the stack of underwear, and much to my surprise, not a single pair of black underwear in the bunch. All different colors. Different cuts. Even lace. But here's the thing...and this actually hurts for some stupid reason...if I'd have said anything about them, there's a good chance she would've put them back. So apart from nodding at them that they existed and she had chose them, I just said "great" and suggested that she go and find and additional bra since she tends to buy ONE and then wear it every day until it's all stretched out. She agreed, and did...and we paid and left. I have no idea of what to make about her underwear choices at this point. She made a big deal about buying only black, then didn't. She mentioned something in the car about not finding any in black but really liking what she did find. All I can figure is that somewhere in all this, her choices were somehow made with me in mind, which would be great except that somehow this will come back at me down the line. Even though I wasn't with her when she chose and voiced no opinion with her choices either way, somehow this will end up being my fault and put into a discussion down the line. Which honestly sucks.

The whole drive home she was beaming about her purchases. Kept thanking me over and over for how special it all was and for making a really hard mothers day good for her. Which is what I wanted. But I also felt kind of dead inside and didn't want to hear it. I didn't go into yesterday hoping or thinking that sex would materialize out of ANY of it. She's having her period, and as she puts it "the store is closed" during the week she's having it. And if she's not having it, I'm not having it. We don't do anything. Add to that the grief over spending a mothers day childless, and I knew there was zero chance of anything physical between us, which is fine. More than anything, I wanted her to get what she needed, because she won't do it otherwise. So on that front, I was happy I guess. BUT, my love language is physical touch. Something that she refuses to acknowledge. 9 years ago we read the Love Language books together and took the test. Her love languages are "Acts of Service" and "Quality Time." Mine were "Physical Touch" and "Receiving Gifts". And she refused to believe it. Believing me would mean she'd have to touch me, and she's lousy at gift giving. (Her mom is too. I'm not an outdoors kind of guy. Her mom knows this. But for my birthday this year she got me a Bass Pro Shop gift card. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree with my wife.) She kept arguing that my real love language was "Quality Time"...and that's what she stuck with. Of the 4 options, "Quality Time" is the least important to me, followed neck and neck with "Words of Affirmation". I took the test again recently to see if it had changed, and it was still "Physical Touch." But she doesn't acknowledge it. And I don't just mean sexual touch. Hugging, holding hands, cuddling are all very important to me. And I've never had much of any of it. Ever. My parents weren't/aren't affectionate people. My high school girlfriend was somewhat affectionate, but most of the affection we had for each other was sex and shouldn't have been happening...but with my wife, it's been years of affection on her terms. She's a hugger if she's sad or hurting. But cuddling makes her physically uncomfortable. She barely touches me during sex, and only if I gently ask or move her hands to places where I'd like her to touch me, which is always awkward and makes me feel terrible because of the chance she'll somehow relate it to the sexual abuse she suffered or something. And then it's brief and over. She doesn't cuddle after sex. Her kisses are like "pecks" on my lips or cheeks. And that's how yesterday's events ended. A couple pats on the arm, a peck on the lips, and her thanking me. And the thanks were heartfelt, I don't deny that. But like most days, I just felt hollow from it all.

And look, I didn't do anything yesterday to get something from her. At all. It's just that what played out yesterday has happened over and over in the past 16 years, and for me just shines a bright light on the huge differences between us. As her husband, I want to bless her and meet her needs. But my needs seem to reside on the other side of a wall of grief, past sexual abuse, being tired, her job, infertility, etc. And it's not a wall I can break through or climb. The rest of the day was uneventful. But it gave me time to think. I don't know how much energy I have anymore to try and fight this. When the pain is great, like it's been for so long, I have these glimpses of being ready and willing to fight the good fight to try and change this. But then reality sets in. And we've not touched in days. And once I cram the anger and frustration down, ambivalence sets in. And like clockwork, I woke up this morning and my sex drive was gone. No erection. No drive. No longing for my wife. And I'm left with just a sadness that THIS is what the rest of my life is going to look like, because you can't make someone want to touch and share their most intimate parts with you. No matter how much you try. And then I think I'm just complaining too much. I mean, it could be worse. I have a nice home. A job I really like. I have my health. So why bother with all this? I should be grateful for what I have...and not what I don't.

So that's where I'm at. If history is any indication, by this coming Friday her period will be fully over, and I'll be expected to do my husbandly duty to try and get her pregnant again. And for the first time ever, I can honestly say I'm not looking forward to having sex with my wife. We aren't doing this for intimacy. It's for a child. It's all just a function now. And being a red-blooded-American male with a hot wife, I can rise to the occasion because I'm shallow enough that when her clothes come off, my body functions like it was designed to. But inside, I'm a wreck.

Sorry again for the long post and for laying my sorry trip on whoever ends up reading this. At first I thought the "journaling" was helping me...but now I just feel worse.

JJ
Last edited by JSJoplin on Mon May 09, 2016 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby Unfulfilled » Mon May 09, 2016 5:28 pm

I think your DW needs to read your last post.

And my recommendation is to NOT try for a child until you and your wife work out this issue.

Your DW having past sexual abuse seems to have not dealt with sufficiently. Clearly she has some residual issues especially related to touch and specifically sexual touch.

Does your wife honestly know how her inactions critically affect you?

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Mon May 09, 2016 7:24 pm

I’m so sorry JJ. It sounds like your wife needs to work on some of these issues. Have she thought of counseling for her or both or you?? I do agree that she should read the above. I’m sure the infertility doesn’t help the situation. I can imagine she is just broken inside and has been through so much. I respectfully disagree with the above by Unfulfilled. This poor woman has lost a child; what a devastating loss! It would be very healing for her to have a living rainbow baby after this very devastating loss and the clock is ticking a bit age wise. I believe the OP and his wife are in their late 30s. I do not think it’s time to delay this regardless of the issues and doing so could cause resentment on the part of the wife (if the delay was initiated by the husband). It would likely make his wife feel that her feelings have been marginalized, and I believe that God designed younger bodies to be more fertile. At this point, I do not think they should be waiting as fertility declines very significantly from late 30s to 40s.

JJ- are you and your wife open to other means of starting a family. IVF (I know it’s expensive, and a gray area but some insurance covers at least a part of it), embryo adoption, I know adoption is expensive, but maybe saving to go in that direction??

I do think in the mean time, your wife should look into how to find healing for her soul for all the areas she is hurting in. I don’t think your marriage will improve till that happens.

Bunny
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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby JSJoplin » Mon May 09, 2016 10:30 pm

Unfulfilled wrote:I think your DW needs to read your last post.


That isn't possible. She'd lose it. Or deny it. Or turn it around on me.

Unfulfilled wrote:And my recommendation is to NOT try for a child until you and your wife work out this issue.


That's not possible. We've been trying for roughly 3.5 years, had one stillbirth, and she's in her late 30s.

Unfulfilled wrote:Your DW having past sexual abuse seems to have not dealt with sufficiently. Clearly she has some residual issues especially related to touch and specifically sexual touch.


I agree...but she spent years in therapy. And it worked wonders on healing her in many many ways. Sex used to terrify her once she really acknowledged how much the abuse really effected her. She went from sexually adventurous with me, to terrified, and then to a place of healing where she's a more or less willing participant for scheduled sex and reportedly enjoys what I do TO her, but hardly reciprocates. In her mind, we have a "blossoming sex life"...she told me this just a week ago...and she gets very upset if I suggest otherwise. It's all very one sided.

Unfulfilled wrote:Does your wife honestly know how her inactions critically affect you?


Not to the depth I've discussed here in the last few days. I'm just coming to grips with all of it myself and allowing myself to feel that I'm just not some pervert that "wants it all the time"...but someone that really wants an intimate and creative sex life with his wife. But this is a mine-field. If I'm direct, it freaks her out. If I'm gentle it freaks her out. The only way she sort of listens is after months of pressure building, we have an argument and she can tell I'm at the end of my rope because I raise my voice. Typically she'll apologize, and then say "we'll figure it out"...and then we don't. Nothing changes. And more therapy is just that...more therapy. More talking. No action. :roll:

JJ

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby JSJoplin » Mon May 09, 2016 10:49 pm

FoxluvsBunny wrote:I’m so sorry JJ. It sounds like your wife needs to work on some of these issues. Have she thought of counseling for her or both or you?? I do agree that she should read the above. I’m sure the infertility doesn’t help the situation.


We've been to counseling. Apart, together, and spent all total something like 6 years doing it. In many ways it helped. But it didn't/doesn't fix everything.

FoxluvsBunny wrote:I can imagine she is just broken inside and has been through so much. I respectfully disagree with the above by Unfulfilled. This poor woman has lost a child; what a devastating loss! It would be very healing for her to have a living rainbow baby after this very devastating loss and the clock is ticking a bit age wise. I believe the OP and his wife are in their late 30s. I do not think it’s time to delay this regardless of the issues and doing so could cause resentment on the part of the wife (if the delay was initiated by the husband). It would likely make his wife feel that her feelings have been marginalized, and I believe that God designed younger bodies to be more fertile. At this point, I do not think they should be waiting as fertility declines very significantly from late 30s to 40s.


Yeah, she's late 30s. No matter how I feel about things right now, we can't stop trying.

FoxluvsBunny wrote:JJ- are you and your wife open to other means of starting a family. IVF (I know it’s expensive, and a gray area but some insurance covers at least a part of it), embryo adoption, I know adoption is expensive, but maybe saving to go in that direction??


We've been on a waiting list for a domestic infant adoption for about a year now. We're told that based on the agency we went with (based on what we could afford), we can expect to wait 3-5 years. We can't afford the other options, and there are drugs that IVF would require that her doctor said would be too hard on her system based on other things she's taken that didn't agree with her.

FoxluvsBunny wrote:I do think in the mean time, your wife should look into how to find healing for her soul for all the areas she is hurting in. I don’t think your marriage will improve till that happens.

Bunny


Problem is, she's not the one who's hurting in the physical relationship. Apart from the grief of losing our child and fertility issues, she thinks everything else is fine. I'm the one that's hurting over this, and history has shown that when that happens, something is "wrong with me"...and it get's dismissed as my issue. If I'm specific about things in our sex life that I'd like to work on, try, discuss, she claims I'm "putting pressure on her." When I point out that asking for something that has a yes or no answer gives her the control and isn't "pressure", she deflects and then just claims "she's doing her best." Both statements are non-starters. I mean, how do you refute how someone is feeling? It's a feeling. It may not be rooted in reality, but as long as the person feels it, it may as well be. When I point out that I've not accused her of not "doing her best"...she follows up with "I just have to have the option to say no to whatever you're asking"... And I remind her that for as long as we've been together, which between dating and marriage is almost 22 years, I've never once forced her to do anything. It's all a wall. It's all protection. From what, I have no idea anymore. I haven't been perfect in this marriage by a long shot. Between past porn use and an almost affair, I put her through a lot. But that was years ago. Years. At some point we have to be able to move on.

JJ

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby Hiswifeagain » Tue May 10, 2016 5:26 am

JSJoplin wrote:
Unfulfilled wrote:I think your DW needs to read your last post.


That isn't possible. She'd lose it. Or deny it. Or turn it around on me.


It is possible! You're mind reading here and it seems you don't want to deal with the possible consequences. So what if she loses it? Until you learn to let go of responsibility for her feelings you'll be a prisoner to them as much as she is.

If she denies it, you're no worse off.

If she tries to turn it around on you, don't get flustered by it. That's a typical response for someone when they don't want to accept responsibility. Just keep directing her back to the issue. "We can talk about what I did and how you feel about it later, right now we're talking about my feelings."

You can do this if you hang onto yourself. You don't have to ride the wave of her emotion. You are responsible for your emotions and your response to your emotions. If she flies off the handle, stand firm and let the wave of her emotion flow past you. Don't let it pick you up and drag you out with it. If she becomes verbally abusive, tell her you need a time out and walk away. But make sure you go back and talk about it later or your timeout will become her escape.

I hope that helps. Those are things we learned in counseling. They've been very helpful for us. :)

This will be hard, but nothing worth having is really that easy is it?
You will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast, because they trust in you. Isaiah 26:3

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby 2pack » Tue May 10, 2016 7:45 am

JSJoplin wrote: Unfulfilled wrote:
And my recommendation is to NOT try for a child until you and your wife work out this issue.



That's not possible. We've been trying for roughly 3.5 years, had one stillbirth, and she's in her late 30s.


It is possible. It takes two. I wouldn't put a potential child at this sort of disadvantage. I would stop trying immediately and tell her why.

I also hope you read HWA's post time and time again. Stop saying, "It's not possible" about so many of the suggestions you are hearing. You asked for advice - take it.
I'm a moth flyin' into the light of it's doom - You wrap me up in your love cocoon...

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby JSJoplin » Tue May 10, 2016 10:56 am

Appreciate the thoughts/advice from everyone who shared. I'll take it all into consideration as I move forward.

JJ

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby poetess » Tue May 10, 2016 11:30 am

I'm not at all inclined to agree with the advice to deliberately avoid having a baby. Children are a big part of the reason God gave us marriage, and I think we should deliberately avoid pregnancy only in the greatest of extremities (e.g., an abusive spouse or unrepentant adultery meaning the marriage might end, or physical reasons that pregnancy is dangerous). Particularly after the great pain of a stillbirth, I think that withholding fertility to a woman who may not have many (or any) fertile years left is a choice that would never be forgotten. (I married in my forties and was no longer fertile when I married, but had I married when I still "might" get pregnant and my husband had wanted to avoid us having a child together since he already had children, some of whom were teenagers, I wouldn't have married him. Childbearing is too important a "part" of marriage to deliberately avoid it except for extreme reasons.)

My own take is that rather than actively seeking pregnancy (which isn't actually working, and is causing stress), you choose to leave it in God's hands and choose to pursue a healthy sex life, whether or not God blesses it with a baby. That's easier said than done because it will take two of you to agree to that, but that would be my own counsel. Don't "try" and don't "avoid trying." Agree to choose to pursue the unity in sex, and God can choose to give you a baby or not give you one.

By the way, I haven't actually dealt with infertility, but being single into my forties in a very large, very fertile family, I have felt at least some of the pain. When a mother of five or six kids complained to me (when I was single and childless) that she didn't have enough children, I felt as though something inside me tore. If I'd complained about not having a husband, everyone would have sympathized, but a single woman isn't expected to ache for children, and I did, and I suffered that grief in silence. To be married and thus be in a place where it's possible to have children, and not have them, would if anything exacerbate that grief. And to suffer a stillbirth on top of it would multiply it more. I KNOW someone who had a miscarriage and then her husband doubled down on the birth control to be sure another pregnancy didn't happen. It wasn't pretty. (God did eventually heal their marriage and gave them a couple of children, but they went through some hard years until God opened his heart to children.)
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby FoxluvsBunny » Tue May 10, 2016 12:17 pm

I very much agree with the advice that Poetess gave. I believe that there is a different kind of yearning to have children in the hearts of many women, that men just can't understand. I am not a mom, and logically we know it's not quite time, but sometimes when i'm around babies, i am happy, but my heart also aches; because of that longing that has grown in the last several months. We aren't that strict w/ BC but we do avoid a bit, try to protect around ovulation (yet if we were super fertile, i'm sure we'd have been pregnant by now as we've had a few lapses)... but it hurts sometimes esp since i know i have endocrine issues; i know it took my mother and grandmother each a few years and i'm older than both of them when they started trying; there are babies, announcements etc all around me. I have not been through a MC, a still birth, but honestly i cried reading some of your posts about what you've been through. I'm sure regardless of the mutual marital issues and commications problems, and seeming selfishness on the part of your wife, she must feel like she's had her heart ripped out. Esp being her age and knowing what she knows and it sounds she's doing everything right. I would agree that perhaps, you guys should just stay on the adoption list, and not try, not prevent (i'm sure it's very hard being in the "try" mode for her esp as she charts her cycles to still have sex at whatever times but be ok with whatever happens). I think it will take surrender and prayer on both of your parts; praying for His will with your family. I know it's hard... I agree also that if you purposely avoid against her will it will likely put up MORE of a wall and will not be working towards the goal of openness and marital intimacy that you are hoping for.

And Poetess- i'm sorry you had to go through all the grief in silence. ::bh

Blessings!
<3, Bunny
Just a Bunny learning everyday what it means to Love and Live Harmoniously with a Fox

But if you tame me then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world.~TLP

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby JSJoplin » Tue May 10, 2016 5:03 pm

Poetess and Bunny ~ I want to sincerely thank you for sharing your stories with me, and for the support. In all honesty, with my last post, I was just trying to be polite. I think it would be disastrous for our marriage and my wife if I just took all of this off the table while we "dealt" with the intimacy issue. And I won't/can't do that to her. I can't tell a 38, almost 39 yr old woman that desperately wants a child that I've hit a wall and won't try with her because our sex is currently one-sided. I just can't. It'll shatter her already broken heart. If we were in our 20s and had time, then sure. Maybe a pause to examine everything would be appropriate...but we aren't kids. And time is not on our side.

What's truly heartbreaking for me is after years of pain and brokenness in our personal and collective sexual history, there was a point about 8 years ago where she had read something about being a "generous wife" and came to me one night, naked and wrapped in a huge bow. She said he wanted to be the kind of woman that pleased her husband sexually and took care of his needs/wants, a "gift" to me...thus the bow. She said she really did like sex and wanted to get to a point where we were having sex ever night if we wanted. And this was at the tail end of all her sexual abuse therapy. And I was blown away, and felt horrible because I was hiding a porn habit and had almost had an affair a couple years before this. And her sweet beautiful offer crushed me inside. And not long after I confessed all I'd been hiding, and we went back into counseling for 2 years and the sex obviously went out the window. And just as we were healing, finding our footing, my job changed and sent me on the road for 16 months. And when I got back we raced into baby-making because it couldn't wait any longer. And yes the grief over losing our child is huge. And yes the infertility is a big problem and a lot of pressure. But it's just enhancing the overall problem. We never found our footing from 8 years ago. And now she thinks everything is "fine" and doesn't want to talk about it. And the only hope I have in maybe getting that part of my wife back is to essentially "blow things up" again...but maybe...just maybe THIS time we can be on the same page at the same time, and move forward together. There's a LOT working against us right now, and as usual the timing the timing is terrible, but we need to get this moving in the right direction.

JJ

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Re: We're Broken ~ Need Advice

Postby Vanna » Tue May 10, 2016 5:48 pm

If she gets pregnant, you are looking at 40 weeks of no sex because she will not want anything to remotely jeopardize the pregnancy, then you are looking at about 8 more weeks postpartum where sex will be off the table.

You are having trouble dealing with underwear shopping, and she's not even pregnant yet.

How are you going to do 18 years of erratic sex so your child doesn't grow up in a broken home?

Pause and really consider the path your marriage is on. Now project it forward twenty years. If you can't deal with her selfish underwear shopping at this point, the triggers only tend to get worse as time goes on. How long before constant pain leads to anger and resentment? Or depression?

You both need to face this before another life is impacted by this down the road.
After 28 years and six kids, through the good and bad, by the grace of God, things keep getting better and better. ::wed


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