Trying to decide on #2

How do pregnancy and the first year after birth impact a couples sexuality?
RandyJ
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Trying to decide on #2

Postby RandyJ » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:53 am

My DW and I have been trying to decide on weather or not we want to have a second child. We have been in debate on this for a long time now. I thought we were decided that we were going to start trying 8 months ago, but when I tried to ML to her with no condom on, and she broke down in tears and came up with all sorts of reasons why she was scared. Most of witch is to do with genetic birth defects. She is 37 and I am 43. She says she does not think she could Handel it if there was a problem.

Now we have been in debate on this for a long time. We have decided several times in a No but she will start over on the debate again in a day or two. The few things that I am a little worried about is that I will be 62 when the child will finish high school. My current son I will be 59. Also my son was extremely colic. It was a brutal 8 months of very little sleep. Like 3-4 hrs a day and then still having to preform well at home and work. I am unsure how I would be able to do it again. I feel selfish saying this but as it is I have no free time as is. I get up at 4:40 am go to work and then when I get home do 2 hours of house work then get my son from day care make dinner do the dishes help get him ready for bed clean up the toys that he got out. Take a shower and go to bed. I don't know how we could do another.

So I am stressed and don't know what to do.

Randy

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby SeekingChange » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:12 am

I know this seems trite, but it's true, commit it to prayer, lay your worries and burdens in His hands, He knows your days, He knows what you and your wife need. Quit trying to be in control and trust Him. There is no guarantee you would even conceive if you wanted to. Sometimes we need a paradigm shift, children are a blessing.
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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby tjw » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:22 am

RandyJ wrote:I am a little worried about is that I will be 62 when the child will finish high school. My current son I will be 59.


I've passed both 59 and 62. I want to assure you, there's no difference in 59 and 62 :)

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby doug-h » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:58 am

FWIW, my oldest brother and his wife conceived their youngest after he was 50. I didn't think it was the wisest move at the time, but he is absolutely smitten. Yes, there will be struggles down the road, and he will be on social security when she graduated High School, but all that can be managed.

I guess the point is, don't let fear be the deciding factor.

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby Job29Man » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:46 am

I can give an opinion based on personal experience, take it for what it's worth.

First a fact: Children are a lot of work, a lot of sleeplessness, a lot of expense. They cause heartache sometimes, or drama, sometimes trouble with the law or other authorities. All that negative, worst-case stuff.

Another fact: Many couples report that children are the greatest cause of joy in their lives, the most rewarding thing, the greatest beauty, the most perfect illustration to them of God's love and care for us -- His children. And we get to experience God in a more intense way (many report) because we ALSO go through the experience of having children with all their imperfections (like us).

Why conceive or not conceive again? Depends on how you choose to balance these facts.

We've had ten children, all of them C-sections (and all the pain and trouble that goes with that). We have experienced SO MUCH inconvenience, pain, and concern over them. I have worked MINIMUM of at least 50 hour weeks, often 60 hour weeks, sometimes much more, at one job, and sometimes part time jobs in addition. Recently it took 3 part time jobs to make it. And then come home and do chores, take the kids to the park, attend all the 4H meetings, etc etc. But it's all worth it to us. The joy and reward FARRRRRRRRR outweigh the negatives to us.

Our youngest was born when Sarah was 42 and I was 44. You can do the math on how old we'll be at different life events. Your concerns seem to be about your next two decades, can you keep up? and so on. Well, I'm about two decades older than you, so my testimony is that you CAN hold up, and keep up, and thrive!

Today I am (on a one week "vacation") up on our 140 degree roof removing 4000 square feet of HOT asphalt shingles with my tool and my hands, drinking gallons of water a day. I start at 6:30 am, and last night I worked with my teen boys, all of us wearing headlamps, till about 10:30 pm. I'm around 60 years old - ish. What I'm getting at is, you don't need to be afraid of running out of energy if you discipline your body to be fit and strong. It is possible if you use ZERO medicines or drugs, eat zero processed food, take lots of supplements (natural stuff), and drink only water, milk, and maybe a little coffee/tea or wine. I'm not bragging, but telling you HOW to keep up the high energy into your 60s, and then you can be confident to have the energy and health to not only keep up but THRIVE in your 6th decade and beyond. Bro -- we've had young and middle aged men up on the roof with us this week, and ALL of them are spent after about 4 hours, maybe 6. No one can keep up with my boys, or me. This is a testament to nutrition, exercise, good diet, no drugs, and a slender body (I believe). It takes high motivation and dedication to be powerful into your 60s, but you can do it! This is how to be a vigorous force of fatherhood. In my case I've had to keep up with many children. No, change that... my children have to run to keep up with me.

I'll be well into my 60s when the youngest graduates college, then I'll probably celebrate by climbing a mountain or run a Tough Mudder Race with him. 60 ain't old my friend, unless you choose to live like an "old man." Well, my ice-water and sit down break is over. Back up onto the roof for me, temperature in the 90s today.

This discipline is a deliberate decision I made along with the decision to have a large family. I think it's also best to be this disciplined if you father children later in life.
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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby SLS » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:53 am

You have already gotten some great advice from the other posts. Allow me to add my perspective as a child of an "older" couple.

My Dad was 47 and my Mom was 34 when they had me, their firstborn. Five years later they had my twin sisters. Now there is nothing wrong with being an only child but for me personally I adored having siblings. I can't imagine life without my sisters. They were playmates and companions, but also teachers. By being a "big brother" I learned responsibility, patience, respect for women and so much more. Having siblings is not the only way to learn those things but for me it was important.

In terms of worrying about how old you will be at certain life events:

It doesn't really matter if you are 59, 62, or 65 when your child graduates high school. Abraham was as old as dirt when he had Isaac. It's the love that matters, not the age. In many ways I benefited from the fact that my father was older and more experienced. His wisdom helped me avoid many pitfalls.

All that said this is between you and your bride. Trust God and do what is best for your marriage. It may be that God is leading you to adopt a child instead of conceiving again. Or maybe your family is full the way it is. Seek God and trust His leading.

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby ledgemoor » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:47 pm

Hi Randy--

It sound like you neither of you really want this. Not wanting to have more children is OK too. This isn't something you should do unless both of you are at peace about it.
Everything you ever wanted in life is just outside your comfort zone (Jamie Lee Curtis)

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby poetess » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:57 pm

Being around 60 when a child graduates from high school isn't old--several in my family have seen that sort of date. In fact, a couple of people in my family have fathered children at 60, and one of my brothers is likely to have at least one of his after 60.

The other side of the coin is that if you choose not to have another child, you will be leaving your child with somewhat older parents and no siblings to help, comfort, encourage him. I have a friend who is an only child, with older parents, and she has been left to do the caring-for-Mom thing all by herself, with no one to relieve her and no one with whom to make decisions. I think that the birth of additional children is as much a gift to our children as they are anything else--they give them companions, people to help in the care of Mom and Dad, uncles and aunts to their children . . . and they keep them from the mind-set that all of life revolves around them and from someday moving into marriage with never having shared a bedroom or learning to negotiate within the family.

Children are a gift from God. Our culture says they are a nuisance, a drain on finances, and so forth. And we know that they can be hard work and they can break our hearts. But we can believe God that they are His good gift--even during the challenges that come with parenting. I don't think we need to think long and hard about whether we want to be parents--God has made that a natural and good result of being married, and it should be the natural default.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby Tweed » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:02 pm

My husband just turned 60 and I'm 47. I still beg God for a baby, but then the only one He's granted us through biology died many years ago as a stillbirth. But here's the thing I've often thought about as we've gotten older...Abraham and Sarah. God made promises to Abraham and then GOD WAITED until Abraham and Sarah were old! And not just Bible times old, but Abraham's body was "as good as dead" and Sarah was well past child bearing years. But God chose to wait until this time in their lives to fulfill His plan. And what did they name that baby? Laughter! (Isaac) What a joy he must have been to this old and crusty couple who had a baby not on their schedule, but God's!

(And what a mess was made when they tried to do things on their schedule! i.e., Hagar and Ishmael)

I hope that provides some encouragement and perspective.

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby RandyJ » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:49 am

Thank you all for your responses. I am very grateful for all of rhem. You all are right that age should not be the reason if we should choose no. As many of you stated the case for my son to have siblings to help out when we get older. That is one of my DW reasons for wanting a second. She has 2 brothers and loves them very much. I have a sister that is 8 years younger than I. I am not colse to her, and she disowned me and my wife and son because I couldn't make it to her destination wedding in Hawaii. My son was just 8 months old at the time and very colicy. I could not imagine bringing him and I was not going to leave my DW alone and fly there and back in a few days. She said some very hurtful things to me an has not said a single word to us since.

I think we are going to do a combination of what you all have said. One thing we need to table this talk for a while. I got to the point of breaking down after reading all the love and support from you all. Once we get to the point of resuming the conversation in I think 2 months. If we do decide yes then it will be a see what happens. If yes great if no then that is how our family is ment to be. We have a very energetic almost 3 year old and we love him lots. I will keep you updated.

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby poetess » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:24 am

Yesterday I meant to say that there are advantages to a child being born to young parents, for example he is likely (statistically speaking) to have them around for longer, and they are more likely to see several generations of their family, and they are more likely to be able to get down on the floor to play with the children and work or play hard with them, etc.

But no one ever mentions that there is a different set of advantages to the child born to older parents: The parents should have greater wisdom, greater patience, more ability to see the bigger picture (less danger of being driven by fad parenting), etc. I just saw this article in one such advantage: smarter children. https://www.studyfinds.org/older-father ... gent-sons/

If God blesses you with another child, He will work out the details, and that child will be a good gift.
Marriage--what a wonderful image of Christ's love for His bride!

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Two "I have peace about it"s should not be the standard

Postby Job29Man » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:39 am

ledgemoor wrote:Hi Randy--

It sound like you neither of you really want this. Not wanting to have more children is OK too. This isn't something you should do unless both of you are at peace about it.


I'm going to take issue with the matter-of-fact way you stated this. Nothing personal. But I think there's more to it than a simple truism that "this isn't something you should do unless you are both at peace about it." IMHO it's more involved than that. This statement kind of places the "default position" at "no more children until we get two green lights." I'm going to say that just ONE "green light" should carry a huge amount of weight, that the other spouse should give large, large consideration to. I'm not saying you said it's a vote, but let me say that I don't think it's as simple as "this must be unanimous." The alternative to unanimous is not as simple as "I definitely don't want another." There's a whole spectrum there, from "Over my dead body" to "I'd prefer not" to "I'd rather hold where we're at, but I could get into this with some more discussion" and many shades of that. For one spouse to say "No way!" I believe they should have a powerful, rock solid reason for insisting on denying their spouse another child.

Before we married we agreed that there were several things that only require a single vote to decide a direction or action.

1 spouse can say "let's have sex" and so we have sex
1 spouse can say "I don't want that cultural influence in our home" and it stays out
1 spouse can say "I don't want that person in our home" and that's how it is
1 spouse can say "I'd like another child" and that's how it will be

Of course there are exceptions. There is room for negotiation and discussion, but we deliberately rate a single green light as substantially more than 50% of the decision, more like 90%.

Our modern society has given us the "ability" to block childbearing. As a couple we believe that "ability" has almost no bearing on whether it is the right thing to do. We believe and practice that childbearing is not ancillary to marriage but is a primary purpose* of marriage. We should be very, very reluctant to say "no" to a spouse's desire for another child.

So in response to "unless both of you are at peace about it (having another child)" I would say that if one spouse has the desire and the other spouse prefers not to have another then the one who has no desire for another child should lack the peace to say no. Yes should be weighted much more heavily than no. The "no" vote spouse should not have peace about "no" without an powerfully strong, compelling reason (like severe health problems or other extraordinary situation) to say no, especially when the numbers are quite small, like "shall we have a second child?"


*A primary purpose =/= the only purpose.
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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby RandyJ » Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:08 pm

Just wanted to to chime back in here. Neither one of us is a NO. There are things that worry both of us. I feel that we are very busy already and want to make sure we can provide all the love and attention that the two children would require. I am also nervous about the next baby also having colic. If our son would not have had it we would already probably have a second child. I kind of feel like I have a form of PTSD from when he was a infant. If we were not holding him he would not sleep and then would cry and cry. I also am a little nervous about my wife being able to handle the stress. She tells me all the time how hard of a time she has getting our son out the door in the morning for daycare. And she seems emotionally spent and frazzled. Maybe it won't be a problem but it worries me and I have heard her say it too.

We have both told eachother I am a yes if you are. It's just that neither of us has said a firm yes. And we can't figure out how to get to that point. We could be happy as both a yes or no that is the issue.

Randy

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby MayDayGirl » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:28 pm

Randy,
I understand. My first child was a complete nightmare with the colic, plus she never slept. I seriously thought I would lose my mind. My next two were super easy going. I'd like to chalk it up to novice parenting, but honestly, babies are born with their personalities. At 27 YO, she still requires little sleep and is very successful in her career because she is so demanding. Fortunately, she is married and lives a distance away, so I don't have to deal with her 24/7 anymore :lol: :lol: :lol:

Keep in mind that a lot of people actually say 2 is easier than 1. Your first one will most likely enjoy being a big brother 'helper' and they will entertain each other.

My advice would be to pray about your reasons to both have and not have another child. I believe that God will lead you in the direction that He sees as the right path for your family.

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby Leah » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:59 pm

We have an only child who has four children. Some of the comfort issues seem to be resolved by the children themselves. The boys are close and readily welcomed their first sister. the two youngers were close until the second sister came along. Big sis and little sis are close. All the children are close. Having another child might be easier than you think. Your expectations will be more realistic and you have an older child who will bond and provide another level of closeness.
Leah

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby Job29Man » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:45 am

Seems like many, maybe most couples have had one colic child. But I've heard from VERY few who had two colic children. Your odds are good I think. (Yes, I'm sure someone here had 2 colic children, but most don't I think.)

Let God have the chance to bless you with a healthy baby and smooth sailing.

If you ask around in ultra-health conscious circles too, you will hear about ways of preventing colic.
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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby His son and daughter » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:29 am

Randy,

As the father of 4 and being almost 11 years older than my wife. In addition I am an RN.

I too struggled with the fears of genetic issues - my wife has a half-brother with 2 children that have Cystic Fibrosis.

Our first was born when I was 38(?) and my last when I was 44 (?). We are working on adopting a sibling pair currently.

A statement that my wife once shared with me is "you never hear people talk about how they wish they did not have more children. You always here them saying the opposite. I wish we had gone ahead and had more children."

I think often times the medical field plays upon our worst fears with dire warnings. Yes there can be issues, but that does not mean they are insurmountable. Our God did not calculate the odds and say, "odds are that _% will turn their back on me, so i will not allow them to be created."

Our Father knows what we need and will guide you both. If the genetic fear is pressing on your wife, meet with a genetic counselor and get some perspective on the real odds of issues. Don't let lack of knowledge and living the the world of 'what if...' direct the plans for your life.

Papa God will not leave nor forsake you as you pursue His will.

Blessings,
Bryan

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Re: Trying to decide on #2

Postby RandyJ » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:49 am

I thank you all for all the help and insight. We have decided to stop the discussion for a little while as we were both getting mentally exhausted. What we have been doing is casting a vote each day. After some time we are going to count the votes and see how that helps our thoughts.

As a side note I have been having a hard time mentally dealing with my 3 year old son growing up and things changing. I know I boxed myself in to this corner by letting some things go on to long. We have him a night time bottle till his 3rd b-day. I said no more witch killed me. Then shortly after that he quit wearing his sleep suit and sucking his thumb. He also now won't let us rock him at night most nights. I know I should be happy we did not have to break him of these things, but I have been crushed by them. I am now going in for counciling to try to get my head right as this will not get better on its own. I hope this will also help clear my head on the baby front.

Randy


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