How should a husband deal with this?

Menopause - how it impacts your health, your sexuality, and your life in general.
CLA
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How should a husband deal with this?

Postby CLA » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:39 am

I probably could have posted this in several categories. But since I think that the problem started due to menopause I will try it here. After a long menopause process my wife is left with a low libido and pain during intercourse. However she is a generous wife and lately she has been trying somewhat to deal with the problem after years of being in denial that this was our problem as well as it being an individual problem on some levels for both of us. But the issue of pain isn't going away. We have tried everything medically possible but she still starts to burn after a minute or two. And that is if she has had at least 24 hours of no sexual activity. Doing it twice in one 24 hour day isn't even in the realm of possibility.

I still have a strong desire for PIV IC for more than a minute or two.

She is willing to keep going for a bit longer (but still not nearly long enough as far as my desire goes) but I just feel awful about continuing knowing that what I am doing is causing her pain. She says that is her issue to deal with. I have always thought that it is part of my job to protect her and take care of her. How do I reconcile that with what I think is a normal sexual desire to have intercourse for more than a minute or two? Count this as part of "in sickness and in health" and decline to have intercourse with her completely rather than just do it for a couple of minutes? Go ahead and let her be in pain? Do it for just a couple of minutes and feel frustrated at the lack of sexual satisfaction?
I have tried all of the above and nothing seems to feel right. I hate to think that this part of my life is over at my age. (Early, well, prbably mid 50s is more accurate now.) I guess the "noble" part of me says "man up", be willing to always just give her a quickie, and be glad that you still have at least that in your sexual life.

But if anyone else has any ideas I sure am willing to listen.

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby mamame » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:42 am

What else is on your sexual menu other than PIV?

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby Leah » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:22 pm

What does her doctor say?
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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby rediron » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:30 pm

Hi;
You have stated that you have done every thing medically possible. The last person who replied asked "What else is on your sexual menu".
I believe that this person is on the right track, but did not complete the thought.
It is.generally acknowleged that PIV intercourse is the "Main Dish" in marital sex, and is obviously the parts "made for each other" However, when this is made difficult or impossible what does one do (before the Lord and in consideration for one's spouse)?
In the last generation, unaware of things like vaginal dilators, a Christian man married a Christian woman. On the wedding night, and forever there after, they found him to large to achieve penetration. When asked later in life about marital relations, this Godly man did not elaborate, but stated that he and his wife had a wonderful sex life. What did they do? We can surmise what they might have done, but only they know (both are with the Lord now).
So now you find that you can at best achieve a minute or two without burning or pain. I believe that some (intimately worked out with your wife in order tha( your love life might be described as wonderful by you both) variation of the following might help;

Use plenty of artificial lubricants (coconut oil?) and experiment. The burning / pain problem.might be stoppped right here; as natural lubrication is a known problem in menopausal women.

Use other means of stimulation so that you orgasm in the period of time before she burns / hurts.

On ocassion, frequency to be decided mutually, but mostly by the lady (its her pain / discomfort), just lube up and go for it (unless, there becomes a time when pain / discomfort / burning is too great), so that (you espcially) full on intercourse is remembered (so that temptation might not enter in)

On a regular basis, take each other WAY over the top no PIV, so that (she / you both) may have a "wow" sex life where there is NO anxiety ever. You especially need to embrace these times as fulfilling, not feeling "cheated" (key focus: enjoy your own orgasm, knowing that it is your wife gifting to you in her personal intimate way, and revel in her anxiety / pain free enjoyment of your sexual union)

When finishing PIV, possibly arrange (if possible) her orgasm (as strong as possible) to occur at the point where the burning may have started / is not yet pain. The point is that there is a fine line between intense pleasure and pain. I know of a woman who suffers from meniere's (A chronic inner ear condition, that can cause intense debilitating.vertigo, (a condition that I also suffer)), who suffers.vertigo on orgasm. She adores woman on top because she is in control, and can enjoy the whirl of vertigo (not to the point of being debilitating) mixed with her strong orgasm (she calls it "the spin at the top").Let the lady rule here.

PLAY sexually. I, at one point, desired prostrate stimulation, as I can have multiple dry orgasms this way, but we we both uncomfortable with penetration. We found a ROTFL different way of doing external stimulation that is easy for her to do, and this is (rarely, but now that I think of it, I'm asking soon) part of our married sexuality.

This was long, hope it helps, go enjoy your honey.
Later
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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby CLA » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:29 pm

Leah in Mid-South wrote:What does her doctor say?
mamame wrote:What else is on your sexual menu other than PIV?

Leah,
Her doc says no HRT in any way for her, and that I should learn to live with with the fact that PIV IC is painful for her and that I can't expect it to be like it always was before menopause. After all, he said, I am 51 (at the time we met with the doc) and that is just the way life is and I can't expect to hump like newlyweds at our age. He did say that he would give her a vaginal insert of a very small amount of estrogen, but only if she signed a release acknowleding that it could very well lead to her death. (BTW I don't disagree with the doc on the HRT for her.)

He did allude to using a silicone based lube, which we have tried, but only on me per her desires. But copious amounts of lube will only make the first 2-3 minutes pain free for her. She refuses to try coconut oil or any other non-commercial form of lube. We have tried everything else in the lube dept. including one kind on her and the silicone on me at the same time. What has worked the best is silicone on me and something else on her.

mamame,
Other items on our sexual menu? I personally am open to just about anything. But as far as orgasm producing items go in our marriage, she is open to a HJ on me or very rarely a BJ on me, but if I take more than a few minutes her hand or mouth get tired. She does have a small mouth and a small wrist and she doesn't really care for giving oral sex in general anyway. She doesn't get anything at all out of giving oral sex, and she has never said or indicated that she even enjoys seeing my response to it. So knowing that she really doesn't care for it is kinda of a deal killer for me though so I never ask for it and she rarely offers, maybe once a year or so. She does seem to like giving me a HJ, and she knows that I am ok in finishing myself if her hand gets tired. And I do enjoy a HJ from her, I just don't care for a constant diet of it.

in the past year or so she became willing to use a vibe on herself with me in order to O. Only just recently did she become open to me fingering her to an O, as we did prior to menopause in order for her to O back then, which was the only thing that she would O from. She absolutely refuses to let me go down on her even though when we tried it a few times earlier in the marriage she did O from it and I would enjoy doing that.

Recently we tried having me rub my penis against her vulva without penetration until I ejaculated. She said it was "pleseant" but she would not O from it. She did request that I do that a couple of times though instead of doing anything else that would lead to an O on my part.

As far as foreplay like things go, she likes sucking on my nips, which I also like, especially while she is giving me a HJ. She doesn't like me touching her breasts in any way though, and she doesn't particularly like kissing. No sexy lingerie, dirty talk, etc. She does like giving and receiving a back rub beforehand, which I will also do for her. You can probably assume that anything not specifically mentioned above is also off the table for her.

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby mamame » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:39 pm

and that is just the way life is and I can't expect to hump like newlyweds at our age.


That's ::xx .

What's up with her distrust of non-commercial lube?

Even if HRT is off the table for her (which other doctors may dispute - it's not as cut and dry as they used to think), there are a lot of other things she could be doing to enhance sexual pleasure.

It sounds like the real problem is that she sexual pleasure isn't a high priority for her. Am I right?

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby blushingwife » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:40 pm

mamame wrote:
and that is just the way life is and I can't expect to hump like newlyweds at our age.


That's ::xx .


Yep, what she said: serious ::xx

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby Leah » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:44 pm

I remember about no HRT.

If your wife is willing to put up with the pain, then see if you can let her do a HJ until close to the 2-3 minute time frame she seems to be willing to tolerate.

I don't know how she feels about toys, but that might be something to help her. Enhancing her arousal might help.

Keep trying with the coconut oil. It really is the best stuff.

I also wonder if there might be something in your diet that causes irritation for her. I have a truckload of food and substance allergies. If you are eating or using something that doesn't quite agree with her, you might be excreting something that irritates her. You might try drinking more water to see if it helps.

Oh, and there is a vaginal suppository that might help. I think I have read of people who make their own with CO.
Leah

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby CLA » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:11 pm

[quote="Leah in Mid-South"]I remember about no HRT.

If your wife is willing to put up with the pain, then see if you can let her do a HJ until close to the 2-3 minute time frame she seems to be willing to tolerate.

I don't know how she feels about toys, but that might be something to help her. Enhancing her arousal might help.

Keep trying with the coconut oil. It really is the best stuff.

I also wonder if there might be something in your diet that causes irritation for her. I have a truckload of food and substance allergies. If you are eating or using something that doesn't quite agree with her, you might be excreting something that irritates her. You might try drinking more water to see if it helps.

Oh, and there is a vaginal suppository that might help. I think I have read of people who make their own with CO.[quote="Leah in Mid-South"]

Leah,
We have tried the suppositorys. some initially seem better than others, but after a few times the effectiveness seems to diminish. In any event, she hasn't bought any lately. I bought some of the injectors that you can use to shoot up lube into yourself thinking that if she did that for a while it might eventually lubricate her up on a more permanent basis but she didn't want to try doing that.
I can't think of any different foods that I am eating. I did wonder if there was something about my semen that may have changed, but she says it is hurting before I ejaculate.
I am not sure how to deal with the coconut oil issue now. I wish she would try it. She made it clear that she didn't want anything in her that could be rancid, have some bugs, or whatever. She grew up on a farm, so maybe living up close and personal with raw agricultural products makes her less trusting of those things than the rest of us may be.
She can O before PIV IC if I finger her but even with that amount of arousal it seems to be the same. But she often isn't interested in an O anyway. But it doesn't seem to make a difference as far as the pain goes, whether she Os with a vibe or my finger or doesn't O at all.
Part of the problem with the HJ and then PIV concept for us is the transition time for me. we have to apply or re-apply the lube to me (we have to use a lot and make sure it is spread out over my whole thingie) and by the time we are then ready for me to enter her I am essentially starting over mentally and somewhat physically so it will still usually take me longer than a couple of minutes to finish. Same thing if I finger her. I get excited watching her if she Os but I still then have to lube up and by the time I am ready the initial excitement doesn't have me going like it did right after she Os. (And Oing isn't important to her anyway so even that often doesn't happen.)
And anyway, not to whine. but I am really wanting more than a couple of minutes of PIV somehow these days. :(

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby CLA » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:34 pm

mamame wrote:
and that is just the way life is and I can't expect to hump like newlyweds at our age.


That's ::xx .

What's up with her distrust of non-commercial lube?

Even if HRT is off the table for her (which other doctors may dispute - it's not as cut and dry as they used to think), there are a lot of other things she could be doing to enhance sexual pleasure.

It sounds like the real problem is that she sexual pleasure isn't a high priority for her. Am I right?

I suspect that with her medical history she would have a very tough time finding a doc that thinks she could take them. She has a history of blood clots.
On the non commercial lube issue I posted above in a response to Leah what I think might be her problem, but other than that I just don't know. Part of our problem is that it is difficult to get her talk about this stuff. She just wants to push it under the rug. But you are right. Sexual pleasure is not a priority for her. Since menopause she no longer has the typical craving for sex that comes at that certain point in her cycle. And the physical pain now reinforces a general lack of physical or hormonal interest. Then there is the fact that there isn't a mental desire for sex either anymore for her. So why should she try if she doesn't care mentally and it hurts physically? I thought that if she was able to O once again that it would change her interest in sex, but I guess not.
If she did have sex as a high priority this wouldn't have drug out as long as it has and I think that if she was interested she would communicate with me about what we can do to make it work and maybe we could make things work for both of us. So far, it has been years and years of almost exclusively me trying everything I can think of to make things work for us by guessing what might work for her. And I think I have been riding that train too long now.

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby Leah » Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:11 pm

The issue seems to be that you want more than 2-3 minutes of PIV. Does it still cause her pain if you enter and then lie still for a couple of minutes?

And you know what Yogi Berra says, it's 90% mental. How are you doing with praise and encouragement during your times together?
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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby Exuberance » Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:48 am

I think someone needs to ask her why she keeps saying no to ideas that may hold the solution. No coconut oil? She won't even try it? Why not? Why exactly is she opposed to trying things that could take away her discomfort? Is she using the discomfort as an excuse?

She is saying, "You can't do that, it hurts" and then stubbornly refuses to try anything that will reduce discomfort.

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby ledgemoor » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:22 am

Hi CLA:

I know a little of what you are going thru.

DW went thru menopause OK, but got endometrial cancer and needed a hysterectomy. The results of losing her ovaries were disasterous. Among other things, her vaginal wall deteriorated so badly that there was a white yucky discharge all the time, which, sorry, took OS off the table for me. Her oncologist told her no HRT, but gave her Estrace, a synthetic human estrogen in some sort of cream that is supposed to help vaginal difficulties but not raise the bloodstream estrogen levels much. It helped a lot. She applied it three times a week as I recall. We needed to schedule sex around it -- the guy can't get it on him. (Honey, what did I do with my knitting needles? :? )

But, all the other symptoms were so bad she went on HRT against her oncologists advice. Fortunately we found a good gyn who is not a quack or anything, and is expert in bioidentical HRT. He has been doing it for 30 years, and feels that low levels of hormones, in line with a HEALTHY post-menopausal woman may actually reduce the risk of cancer. After all, if you are so sick that you can't live a normal life, how well can your body fight cancer? There is one small study that supports this. I have linked to it before here on TMB, but I can find it again easily if you are interested -- just ask.

I think someone needs to ask her why she keeps saying no to ideas that may hold the solution.

If in doubt, blame hormones. I've been there myself.


Anyway, what I am suggesting is see some other doctors and get other opinions.
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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby CLA » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:15 pm

Leah in Mid-South wrote:The issue seems to be that you want more than 2-3 minutes of PIV. Does it still cause her pain if you enter and then lie still for a couple of minutes?

And you know what Yogi Berra says, it's 90% mental. How are you doing with praise and encouragement during your times together?

Leah,
That is a good idea about just being still for a while. I have tried going very slow but then she doesn't like that.(I think that she just wants to get it over with.) But just no movement at all for a while might work if that doesn't cause any pain for her and I think it would be very nice for me.

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby CLA » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:57 am

CLA wrote:
Leah in Mid-South wrote:The issue seems to be that you want more than 2-3 minutes of PIV. Does it still cause her pain if you enter and then lie still for a couple of minutes?

And you know what Yogi Berra says, it's 90% mental. How are you doing with praise and encouragement during your times together?

Leah,
That is a good idea about just being still for a while. I have tried going very slow but then she doesn't like that.(I think that she just wants to get it over with.) But just no movement at all for a while might work if that doesn't cause any pain for her and I think it would be very nice for me.


Some Success!
I tried Leah's idea as suggested above. I told her what I wanted to try and she was willing to give it a shot, so to speak. I entered her but I didn't thrust any while she used a vibe on herself. While naturally I would have prefferred to do what comes natural in that situation it still was a very pleasent feeling and it was much better than not being in her at all. It took her about 3 minutes to O and by then of course I was feeling pretty good. Kinda hard not to with my wife under me with me in her and she is having a great big O, even if I am not contributing much to it. So, I could only last 2 or 3 minutes after that. Not quite the long, slow screw I have been craving, but doubling the amount of PIV we had been having. But if I could have lasted longer I think she could have also. I asked if she had any pain afterwards and she said no.
Things did feel "tighter" after her O when I started thrusting and I normally associate that with dryness on her part, but it didn't feel exactly the same way it normally does when she is dry. I am wondering if her vaginal tissues "plumped out" a bit immediately after her O.
Any way, she had an O, I had an O, there was no pain for her, and we were able to double our PIV time. All in all, not too shabby for the first try.
Thanks Leah!
PS On the praise and encouragement part, she really doesn't seem to want to hear it. She just doesn't want to discuss it at all. But what I think has helped a bit recently in that general area was that I got a book from Focus on the Family a few weeks ago. It has the unfortunate title of "No More Headaches" as it implies that any sex problem is because of the woman, but it is written by a woman for women and it covers what men think, desire, want and need better than any other book I have read. There is a good, long excerpt from it on their web site and I started a thread on it a while back.

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby ledgemoor » Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:33 am

Wonderful!

Things did feel "tighter" after her O when I started thrusting and I normally associate that with dryness on her part, but it didn't feel exactly the same way it normally does when she is dry. I am wondering if her vaginal tissues "plumped out" a bit immediately after her O.


That is likely, plus, if she is lubricating at all, after O is when she will be the wettest. Endorphins would also be at their highest, possibly masking any discomfort.
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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby beekeeper » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:50 pm

CLA wrote:... Her doc says no HRT in any way for her, and that I should learn to live with with the fact that PIV IC is painful for her and that I can't expect it to be like it always was before menopause. ...

... She doesn't like me touching her breasts in any way though, and she doesn't particularly like kissing. No sexy lingerie, dirty talk, etc. ...


Same here.

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby Leah » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:37 pm

CLA wrote: Some Success!


Yay! ::clap
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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby James186282 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:24 am

No HRT for her. Ok... Why? Ask the doctor for specifics. If he/she won't look for a doctor who does communicate and better yet look for an expert in hormone replacement. There is a lot of fear about HRT that I think is confusing.

Vaginal dryness is no fun for her. Being uninterested in sex? Not good for any marriage. HRT solved that and her being totally angry 24:7

My wife also lost her ability to get up and get things done when she went into menopause. I ended up seeking a good HRT doctor and driving her back and forth and doing lots of leg work. Thats what I think your job might be in this case as well!

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Re: How should a husband deal with this?

Postby beekeeper » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:57 am

James186282 wrote:No HRT for her. Ok... Why? Ask the doctor for specifics. If he/she won't look for a doctor who does communicate and better yet look for an expert in hormone replacement. There is a lot of fear about HRT that I think is confusing.


Family history of cervical cancers and breast cancers may preclude a lady from getting HRT.



... Vaginal dryness is no fun for her


Nor are atrophied vaginal linings that tear and rip every time they are stretched or rubbed.



... Being uninterested in sex? Not good for any marriage. HRT solved that and her being totally angry 24:7

My wife also lost her ability to get up and get things done when she went into menopause. I ended up seeking a good HRT doctor and driving her back and forth and doing lots of leg work. Thats what I think your job might be in this case as well!


Estrogen is also great for muscle tone, without it even the heart is weakened and may lead to heart attacks.

Bone density and brittle bones, ...


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