Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Menopause - how it impacts your health, your sexuality, and your life in general.
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mom210
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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby mom210 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:55 pm

beekeeper wrote:
mom210 wrote:You can get progesterone cream from GNC.. The one I use is only $15..


Thank you.

How do you dose it?


This is the one I use..
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2133894

I use 1/2 teaspoon after my bath or shower.. on my inner thighs.

Also,remember to cycle it. Use 21 days... stop for 7.. repeat.

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby Prisc » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:47 am

Dim is usualy used to counteract estrogen not raise it. But...from what I understand, it will not neccessarily lower E2 (estradiol) but rather E1 which is estrone. Some think this is a good idea because estrone is blamed as a promoter of breast cancer. Estrone levels raise after menoapuse while estradiol levels lower. The ovaries shut down so estrone is made in fat cells - this is the time when breast cancer rates jump.

I think your wife should stay away from DIM right now, it's likely she doesn't need to lower any of her estrogens. Such a pity her Doc will not script the bioidenticals she needs which are a lot more natural to the body than herbs. Has your wife read any of Dr Uzzi Reiss's books? His latest one 'The Natural Superwoman' is excellent and explains the need for all the the sex hormones that the female body needs and the problems that ensue when they lower.

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby beekeeper » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:37 am

Prisc wrote:Dim is usualy used to counteract estrogen not raise it. But...from what I understand, it will not neccessarily lower E2 (estradiol) but rather E1 which is estrone. Some think this is a good idea because estrone is blamed as a promoter of breast cancer. Estrone levels raise after menoapuse while estradiol levels lower. The ovaries shut down so estrone is made in fat cells - this is the time when breast cancer rates jump.

I think your wife should stay away from DIM right now, it's likely she doesn't need to lower any of her estrogens. Such a pity her Doc will not script the bioidenticals she needs which are a lot more natural to the body than herbs. Has your wife read any of Dr Uzzi Reiss's books? His latest one 'The Natural Superwoman' is excellent and explains the need for all the the sex hormones that the female body needs and the problems that ensue when they lower.


Being orphaned by cancer, and a life where every female relative has had cancer leaves a lasting impact on a person.

She was raised mostly by a copy of: "Our bodies ourselves" a book that teaches repeatedly how men are evil, men only want women for sex, and a women should never allow her husband to have access to her doctor.

She has asked her doctors about estrogen, but she is not going to push the topic with any doctor. If the medical profession had their way, she would be on a dozen other useless meds and still no estrogen.

I got three books on vulvodynia in 2000/2001; she refused to read any of them. I found a list of medical centers that focus on female health issues, she has likewise refused to speak with any specialist in this area.



I have no doubt that I could buy the books you suggest, but they too will sit un-read.

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby mamame » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:25 pm

Any chance she would read something by Dr. Northrup?

Some of her stuff is controversial, but when it comes to women's health, I respect her opinion. She would probably appeal to someone who was raised by "Our Bodies, Ourselves" She also actively encourages women to be sexual with their husbands and how it's really good for them.

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby mamame » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:38 pm

beekeeper wrote:
She has asked her doctors about estrogen, but she is not going to push the topic with any doctor. If the medical profession had their way, she would be on a dozen other useless meds and still no estrogen.


Why are so quick to blame the medical community? If she has only asked about estrogen, and not actively sought something to increase her sexual function they were only doing what she asked of them.


Over the passage of 25 years, the lack of E seems to have caused general lack of muscle tone [including cardiac muscle, which has led to a series of heart attacks] weight gain and vaginal atrophy.

Has her estrogen level been evaluated recently? Her symptoms sound more like estrogen dominance. (this is completely NOT my area of expertise though)

Re: heart attacks, cardiac muscle tone and estrogen: I don't see the relationship there. Heart attacks are a problem with the blood flow to the cardiac muscle causing damage, or the electrical conduction system of the heart, not a problem with the muscle itself. I do believe correct hormone balance plays a HUGE role in cardiac function. IMHO, hormones and stress are the biggest players in coronary artery disease.

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby beekeeper » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:36 pm

mamame wrote:Any chance she would read something by Dr. Northrup?

Some of her stuff is controversial, but when it comes to women's health, I respect her opinion. She would probably appeal to someone who was raised by "Our Bodies, Ourselves" She also actively encourages women to be sexual with their husbands and how it's really good for them.


Thank you, I can try.

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby beekeeper » Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:58 pm

mamame wrote: ... Re: heart attacks, cardiac muscle tone and estrogen: I don't see the relationship there. Heart attacks are a problem with the blood flow to the cardiac muscle causing damage, or the electrical conduction system of the heart, not a problem with the muscle itself. I do believe correct hormone balance plays a HUGE role in cardiac function. IMHO, hormones and stress are the biggest players in coronary artery disease.


With each heart attack, she has spent 4 to 5-days in a cardiac ward. Every test available to cardiologists have been conducted.

She has no problems with blood flow to cardiac muscle. Her blood flow is fine. All arteries are fine, there are no blockages, and no arteries need to be fixed. She has never required angioplasty, nor any stent placements, nor by-passes.

Her heart attacks involve the heart losing rhythm, hessitating, and after taking 4 to 8 nitro-quiks her heart finally goes back into rhythm. During which a significant amount of heart muscle tissue dies and sloughs away. Her cardiologists have told me that these attacks are stress induced.

Each time they monitor her until after all of the damaged tissue seems to have sloughed away and been processed by [I think it is kidneys? or maybe liver?].

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby ledgemoor » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:45 am

Beekeeper wrote:At this point, her doctors are only going to focus on the cardiac side and will still refuse to give her HRT.

We are pretty sure that only if she has a hysterectomy will she be able to convince a doctor to give her estrogen.


Well, SHE needs to be in charge of her health, not her doctors. (Actually, you will probably end up having to do it). We forget that the doctors work for us, and not vice versa.

Hormones are a sideline with the doctors she is seeing. Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but find a HRT doctor, get tested, and find out what is going on. If she has any hormonal deficincies or overages, fixing that will help her heart, sex drive, attitude, complexion, hair, fingernails, weight, eyesight -- my point is hormones can affect ANYTHING. A good HRT doctor can do that with very low risk of any side effects. He can find out what is going on without ANY risk -- no one has ever suffered permanent damage from giving a few blood samples.

If her sex hormones are low, he won't necessarily give her HRT. In my wife's case, the causes for low hormones is obvious -- no ovaries :-(. But in your DW's case, they will first try to find out why the levels are off (if they are), and correct the underlying cause.

I think Mamame makes good sense -- I agree that your DW probably is NOT low in estrogen. She supposedly has two ovaries, and is overweight -- fat makes estrogen -- again, don't assume that an HRT doctor will give her estrogen.

You can try this and that and will possibly eventually stumble onto something that will help. But it's like being lost in a cave without a light -- it will be a very very long time before you get out, provided you don't kill yourself first. Turn on the light, get tested, and then decide if you want to accept the treatment the HRT doctor recommends.
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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby Paul B » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:28 pm

ledgemoor wrote:Well, SHE needs to be in charge of her health, not her doctors. (Actually, you will probably end up having to do it). We forget that the doctors work for us, and not vice versa.

While I agree with that, there are limits. They know far more than most of us ever will. Yes, there are cases where a well read layperson knows more about some single issue, but that is the exception. More often than not, when a person "takes control" over the advice of their doctor, they end up the worse for it.

As for them working for us, they do - but they do not have to. There is a growing discussion among doctors about "firing" clients who ignore important parts of the doctor's advice. And why not? If you pick and choose what to follow, why should the doctor be held responsible for the consequences? If a patient does all kinds of crazy things, and does not even inform their doctor, why should the doc take the risk that something they prescribe will clash with some herb or "supplement" the patient did not tell them they were taking>

I'm sure someone will tell me why I'm wrong, but I honestly think the vast majority of doctors care about the people they treat.
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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby ledgemoor » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:40 pm

They know far more than most of us ever will. .

No disagreement there. That's why I keep harping on Mrs. Beekeeper to see yet another doctor. Two or three or four doctors will know more than one doctor! Prov 15:22

More often than not, when a person "takes control" over the advice of their doctor, they end up the worse for it.


I wasn't suggesting that at all.

There is a growing discussion among doctors about "firing" clients who ignore important parts of the doctor's advice. And why not? If you pick and choose what to follow, why should the doctor be held responsible for the consequences?


It's not a new trend. Our Pediatrician fired us over 20 years ago. But sure, if the patient is refusing to lose weight, quit smoking, or engaging in any obviously desctructive behavior, I agree that this would be a smart move on the part of the doctor (although I'll bet very few patients get fired for smoking or being fat). Heck, in a free enterprise system, anyone is free to choose who they will do business with -- there's nothing wrong with that.

But, if "picking and choosing" involves seeing different specialists or getting second opinions from competitors, most doctors are professional enough to support the patient in doing so.

Insurance companies are more than happy to pay for second opinions the case of surgery, by the way. Treatment is altered by a second opinion 30% of the time.

I think my statement really isn't debatable -- it's just a statement of fact. You ARE in charge of your own healthcare. At the very minimum, you have to decide whether to go to a doctor or not, and if so, who. The question is how to best go about it.
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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby beekeeper » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:10 pm

ledgemoor wrote:
They know far more than most of us ever will. .

No disagreement there. That's why I keep harping on Mrs. Beekeeper to see yet another doctor. Two or three or four doctors will know more than one doctor! Prov 15:22 ...


We have searched the state list of doctors website for HRT doctors, there are none.

A couple websites for 'women's health' doctors, and found three that are 4-hours away.

There is a naturopath doctor who lists 'woman's health' on her website, she does come to our nearest city one day week though spends the rest of the week at a city further away. She is willing to take on my Dw as a new patient in March.

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby Kilarin » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:14 pm

no medical advice, but I'm praying for both of you!

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Re: Has anyone tried 'DIM' [Diindolylmethane] ?

Postby ledgemoor » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:32 am

There is a naturopath doctor who lists 'woman's health' on her website, she does come to our nearest city one day week though spends the rest of the week at a city further away. She is willing to take on my Dw as a new patient in March.


Ok, good -- she should know something about HRT.

What we did was find a compounding pharmacy, and ask them for a referral. Try here
http://www.pccarx.com/CompounderSearch.aspx

and here
http://www.iacprx.org/site/PageServer?p ... kup_survey
They want you to sign up to use their search page, but you can call them.

And these guys apparently don't have a web site, but you colud call them:

National Association of Compounding Pharmacies (NACP)
4015 River Road
Amarillo, TX 79108
800 687 7850 (tel)
800 687 8902 (fax)

Found them here http://www.smart-publications.com/pages ... -pharmacy/

Our pharmacist is a valuable resource BTW. He knows more about delivery, keeping her hormones out of my system, etc than the doctor does. A lot of compounding pharmacists hold doctorate degrees.

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