I'm at the end of my rope

Painfull intercourse, pain with sexual activity, and pain that prevents sex or makes sex difficult.
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Job29Man
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words need actions, and vice versa

Postby Job29Man » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:42 pm

thequarterback wrote:Yeah the Bible time preventing sex is seriously jacked up. She always falls asleep while I'm reading, and I usually hit myself a couple of times in the head with my Bible as soon as I close it.
Dude, you are married without any children. A hundred parents of pre-schoolers reading this thread right now are saying to themselves "Does QB seriously think there's no way to schedule sex before Bible? They don't have anybody but themselves to worry about! They must surely have 4 hours to BURN in any way they choose 5 nights a week! :lol: "

thequarterback wrote:I'll man up about the baby conversation. Its what I do. I don't shy away from the truth...
Just remember this. Something is seriously jacked up... it's the fact that your wife is making you dance to the tune only she gets to play. That's not God's Design for marriage. You two are relatively newly weds. You should be having sex like 4-5 times per week like a bunch of the 50-60 year old grandparents on TMB. It would be very normal, and very reasonable for you two to be having sex every.single.day, with exceptions for periods and sickness, etc.

thequarterback wrote:I'm dreading this conversation, though. She is being so sweet tonight. She has been very affectionate and given me a preview of things to come.
Oh yes, we've heard before about how refusing wives can be regular sirens (look it up) as they approach ovulation, or when it suits them to head off a confrontation.

thequarterback wrote: I know it has only been 24 hours, but she is really putting forth a lot of effort.
That's a far cry from 6-12 months, very, very far.

thequarterback wrote: I guess that I just want to wait and see if things start to go the other direction. That would make it much easier to bring up a 6-12 month timeline. I hear you. I know its necessary. I'm just dreading it.
And what if she seems like a totally new woman from now till fertile time, jumping your bones every other night? How can you be sure it's a permanent total change of heart? Fact is, she has deeply sinned against you. That requires confession, asking for forgiveness, and demonstrated repentance. Can you wrap that all up in a few nights of sweetness and "come hither?"

There is a big difference between a change of behavior, and true repentance. Many people think that when they sin against someone all they need to do is stop being mean and start being nice and then the offended one will "figure out that I'm sorry because of my new improved behavior." Wrong. I wouldn't trust a simple change in behavior to be the real and permanent deal until I heard the words "I was so wrong. I sinned against you by doing A, and B, and especially C to you. I am so sorry, and I have no excuse. Please forgive me. I have changed in my heart and I will try my best to never do that again. What you should expect from me in the future is X, and Y, and especially Z and if you don't see those then please tell me and I will listen to you."

THEN only IF and WHEN words like this are followed by a consistent and long time of demonstrated change in behavior with a cheerful attitude :D , would I begin to trust that "hey, this looks real!" Almost anything else is often an insincere diversionary tactic done long enough to "get what I want." [/cynical rant, from decades of experiences]
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby padsnd » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:46 pm

I agree with Job. Baby-making in the next 6 months is the opposite of progress.

Your wife has demonstrated that she views you as a sperm donor. Many men on TMB have experienced this--a RFing wife who is a total vixen on that one time of the month or even for a few months when TTC. If your DW has not truly repented, a behavior change is not progress. Do you want to experience the following feelings (Feelings that many men on TMB have had the painful experience of having to deal with)?
* Resentment of your kids because of what they represented--your wife using you.
* Resentment of yourself for giving in to such abuse.
* Resentment of your wife because you recognize that her actions were a lie (She wasn't making love; she was obtaining resources to make a baby.)
* The pain of realizing that what should have been a wonderful experience has become something you don't look back on with fond memories. (You view pregnancy and infant pictures as bringing back painful memories rather than being something to reminisce about.)

She may not have ill-intentions, but that really doesn't matter. Her actions are those of one who is selfish and willing to use and abuse. She is not loving you; she is seeking a means to an end. That doesn't change until she comes to you genuinely demonstrating that her past actions are seriously wrong. That is just the second step to restoration (the first is her realizing she is seriously wrong), but it is the second step.
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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby mamame » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:00 pm

How do you not have the conversation with her? If she's being sexually available and you don't use contraception, you have to take responsibility for that.
If you think you are miserable now, imagine 20 years from now knowing that you missed your best chance to change things because you were too scared.
This isn't just about your wife being messed up. It's both of you. You are believing just as many lies about sex as she is.


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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Ace » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:23 pm

Hey QB, I've just read through the thread and am sorry to see that you guys are going through this. I am newer to the forum, but not new to this situation. You sound like my wife and I at your age. I know this is like feeling your way through the dark. You aren't sure of what the next step will result in and you are cautious because you don't want to make things any worse than they already are. Let me ask you a few questions up front:

1) It is obvious you are carrying a significant amount of tension over this. Do you think your wife is tense about your sex life as well or is she really happy with the way things are?

2) I understand the cycle of dealing with the urges until you have to get everything off your chest. I call it the "being the hero" syndrome. The conversation in your head goes something like this, "I'll suck it up and take a hit for my wife because I don't want to upset her or cause a problem." Do you talk about sex when the tension has not mounted and you are not emotionally volatile?

3) Have you explained to her how deep this goes with you and how much energy it takes for you to deal with it on a daily basis? Have you explained to her how this truly affects you?

4) Do you understand her motivation or are you making educated guesses?

Let me reiterate what everyone is saying about working through this now, while you are young, and don't have kids.

You job is not to fix your wife. You can't do that. You have to be transparent with her to the point that she sees and understands your pain and desires change because she doesn't want to hurt you anymore. Don't keep trying to be the hero. Let her in on what is going on inside of you. This will take transparent, honest, and consistent conversation. Not just a one time deal. She mostly likely won't make a change until she understands that what she is doing is hurting you deeply. Once she feels the weight of what you are going through it would be good for her to find a third party to help her process and make sense of things. Does she know about TMB? There are people here that would love to talk to her. There are a number of great books and blogs she can read.

You guys need to partner with each other by working to understand each other. That can only happen by talking on a regular basis.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Job29Man » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:28 pm

thequarterback wrote:I'm dreading this conversation, though. She is being so sweet tonight. She has been very affectionate and given me a preview of things to come. I know it has only been 24 hours, but she is really putting forth a lot of effort. I guess that I just want to wait and see if things start to go the other direction. That would make it much easier to bring up a 6-12 month timeline. I hear you. I know its necessary. I'm just dreading it.


You said this 5 days ago. I'm thinking she's in that fertile time now. Your silence is disconcerting. QB, be strong. Don't give in; do what you know is right. You seriously need to not have a baby with her yet. Don't do like so many others here have sadly lamented.
Wanting to become like Job, as described in the Bible, the book of Job chapter 29. Hence the screen name.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby IM_a_Farmwife » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:25 am

The Twit wrote:As one who is in a similar boat do not let this linger. Once the children arrive then you will become second fiddle. Any of your needs will be placed way down the list to the point they may fall off the list.

Therefore sit down now before it gets too late learn what her priorities are in life and where you fit into them. Get her to spell out where you fit in. If she puts you as Number 2 (behind God) then keep holding her to that. Otherwise you will be come number 3, 4, or maybe even number 100 on her list. And as the list grows and you drop down, you will find that the bottom things on the list never get done and you are at the bottom. DO not let your life become like mine. DO not get bitter and angry. DO not get to a point where anyone or anything can set you off into an angry tirade over just the way a person blows their nose or asks you for directions or any little thing.


QB, Please believe the words you have read. They are typed by a much older version of your marriage. I can imagine that Mr Twit started like you. I realize that it's hard to hear. Maybe it's even harder to apply. Your future children deserve seeing a living example of a Godly marriage with purity. Purity before marriage is no sexual contact. Purity, once your married, should just the opposite, the way God designed marriages to be. That is, having sex often (generous means giving of yourself freely, cheerfully) with enthusiasm and variety. Anything else falls short from God's design of marriage. If you don't have this kind of marriage, you BOTH should fight for it. Is there any possibility that your DW might come on here? If she is unwilling, she will appear unteachable. That is not a good thing. We might be reading about you in 20 years and still at the end of your rope. There is a great marriage waiting for you to be had. What are you waiting for?

I'm praying for you, brother.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby thequarterback » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:55 am

Hey guys,

Ok. Here's an update. I've been very open with my wife since I originally posted this thread. I have taken the wise advice that I have been given, and I have even had the difficult conversation about children with her. It has not been easy, but my wife really is working at this. Since I created this thread, we have been intimate 8 of 10 days. That's great, but it hasn't always been perfect. It has opened (or reopened) another can of worms. I'm not even sure this is the right thread anymore, but I would still feel more comfortable posting here.

DW has told me that issues that I thought were long gone are still prevalent. She has struggled with painful intercourse since we first got married. She told me that sex always hurts, but the frequency of intercourse determines the severity of the pain. She has had endometriosis and ovarian cysts from puberty until now. The doctors told her getting pregnant would help this. This is another reason that she wants to have children. Also, this has caused her to have vaginismus in the past, because her body was trying to protect her from penetration.

Anyways, this causes her to have little or no desire for sex, because she sees it as pain to be avoided. It causes me to want to bang my head against a wall, because I have both the desire to be intimate with my wife and the desire to never hurt her. I can't do one without the other. Further, she has sought medical attention to no avail (other than being told to "get pregnant"). Yes, this has been by multiple OBGYNs.

I believe her when she says she is in pain. She just hasn't bluntly told me in a long time. I have had to get her to tell me the last few times we've been intimate. I have had to ask very pointed questions to get her to reveal it. Lately, she has just grinned and tried to hide the pain. That's the worst! Now I feel like my desire for her is either going to have to die or I will keep hurting her.

Dang it! Do you know what its like to finally start having your needs getting close to being met, but after sex, "was that good for you" is the wrong question?! No, now the right questions are, "did that hurt?" and "did it hurt less than last time?". This is just so messed up. I really need some help here, because this seems totally out of my hands, at this point.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Leah » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:16 am

Lube. Lots of lube. And foreplay.
Leah

“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby thequarterback » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:28 am

Leah, we've tried that. That is not the solution. She says that it is better if we just hurry and do it before her body has time to tighten up. she says that foreplay only makes it worse.

Look guys, even when we do it its so vanilla. I'll take anything I can get, though.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby OldMarriedLady » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:46 am

There are a few threads about vaginismus here, and a forum called "Pain during or preventing sex" that has a number of threads about painful intercourse. There have been a few ladies here who have overcome vaginismus successfully and their stories are in those threads.
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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Learning1 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:56 am

Have her try a set of vaginal dilators.
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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Unfulfilled » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:20 am

While PIV is important, it is NOT the only kind of sex that provides intimacy and orgasm for her. Have you tried say oral sex for example?

Sexuality and sex is FAR more than just PIV.

Maybe she can train (for lack of a better term) herself to more relax And learn her own body and start to relax and enjoy these other sexual activities. It sounds like she has tremendous anxiety, understandably so if she is worried and anticipating the pain can come at any moment.

Possibly if more time could be spent on her and with her that doesn't result in pain due to penetration, she can learn to relax and enjoy.

Just something to consider.

I can 100% understand you personal dilemma. You strongly feel the most intimacy with PIV and that very act causes the person you love pain. That is a VERY tough place to be for sure.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Job29Man » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:21 pm

QB,

Are you saying that your wife is not being selfish, but only suffers pain?
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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby IM_a_Farmwife » Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:49 pm

I ALWAYS had pain with PIV. I associated pain with pleasure, as difficult as that is to think about, that's where I was at. I, too, thought I would be cured from painful sex after childbirth. Something went real bad after I delivered. Long story short, the only way I got relief was to have my OB/GYN to give me a small snip. I was cured from pain forever, after that surgery.

As mentioned before, Mrs QB needs to sit back and relax. If she tenses up again, try to do things to make relaxation possible. Find out what her favorite scent is and use it. Lavender is a good one for relaxation. Have you tried giving her a all over body massage? Can you concentrate on her feet? Discover what she likes. Try to make the session all about her (and put your O on hold until she is completely satisfied). Does she like the sounds of waves of an ocean? What does she want to hear from you? Does she like silence? Words of encouragement? Does she want soft lighting? Perhaps total darkness (for now)? The only sense I have not hit on is taste. You can take it from there. Discover what makes your DW get completely relaxed and then take her there.

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby greenduck » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:04 pm

When DH and I got married I had vaginismus, and it was like being stabbed with dozens of burning daggers. Like your wife, I would try to literally grin and bear it, and experimented with different ways to hide my face so he couldn't see me cry. Luckily I wasn't very good at hiding it, so we agreed to take PIV a little slower and focus on growing our expertise with other kinds of sex. With time (and physical therapy), it worked out really well for us.

A couple thoughts:
1. I know the people giving you advice didn't have the information about your wife's pain until just recently, but I would suggest that you let that play a HUGE role in your discussions about having kids. I cannot imagine how upset I would have been if I had been told that getting pregnant was the one thing that might help with my pain and make sex better for both of us, but he insisted on ignoring that and getting sex figured out before the pregnancy.

2. You need to feel desired, and she needs to feel safe (and not like she's getting stabbed with burning daggers.) Could you still feel desired if she was open to (and excited about) different kinds of sex, and then you only had PIV like once a week while she gets her pain under control? You talked about how you want to make sex great for her but it's hard because the pain gets worse the longer it goes on, but if you were having a quickie once a week (or even every other week) and then had 2-4 times a week where you could really take your time and make it fabulous for her (and she could relax because PIV was off the table) could that be more fulfilling for both of you?

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby OldMarriedLady » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:47 am

thequarterback wrote:We were sexually active together before marriage (it was amazing, by the way)

thequarterback wrote:She has struggled with painful intercourse since we first got married. She told me that sex always hurts, but the frequency of intercourse determines the severity of the pain.

So, did she ever have pain with intercourse when you were sexually active before marriage, or were you active in other ways besides actual intercourse?
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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Job29Man » Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:44 pm

Yeah, I'm interested too. Why would it be "amazing" before marriage, then she eats wedding cake and "Oh, it hurts!" :?
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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Hiswifeagain » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:15 pm

Perhaps it's a physiological response to psychological pain, such as guilt and shame.

Your reply sounds as if you think she's being deceitful? Did I perceive that accurately?

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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby seeking perspective » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:34 pm

Hiswifeagain wrote:Perhaps it's a physiological response to psychological pain, such as guilt and shame.


I wondered about this ^^^. I also wondered if she'd experienced pain before marriage but did a better job of suppressing it out of fear of losing her boyfriend/fiance. Another possibility is that the forbiddenness of sex before marriage was arousing enough that her sexual parts were relaxed from that (although I may be way off in my understanding of vaginismus).
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Re: I'm at the end of my rope

Postby Job29Man » Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:14 am

Quarterback,

Since you seem to indicate that the problem is physiological rather than attitudinal, I've moved the topic to the "Pain During or Preventing Sex" forum.

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