We tried but failed

Painfull intercourse, pain with sexual activity, and pain that prevents sex or makes sex difficult.
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Job29Man
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby Job29Man » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:55 am

The Twit,

It seems obvious now, from your comments that she loses track of time, that you'd do well to keep some kind of reminder calendar visible to her so she can't "accidentally lose track" of how long it's been. Why?

1. So she won't refuse you for long periods of time then claim "Ooops I had no idea it'd been that long."
2. So you can both keep track of doing it more frequently so that she overcomes the atrophy that comes with disuse.

I'd suggest something only you two will understand like a small whiteboard on which you can write the date of the last PIV, and every once in a while update it underneath the date with a number of days it's been. For example "1/1/16... 56 days" No one else in your family will know what that is. Keep it where she can see it. Yes, yes, I know she'll say something like "that's too much pressure... to embarrassing." But she needs to start understanding the pressure and humiliation you undergo.

This baloney of "I forgot how long it's been. Over a year? Really honey?" :shock: :roll: Um... no. Either she's lying or I'm starting to think she has a mental illness. We've stayed with you every step of the way through your reports, and what you've said does not leave room for her "losing track of time."
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby C_Brown » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:27 pm

I can totally believe a woman can forget how long it's been.

Anyway, if you think this may be a reaction to the lube or spermicide or whatever, perhaps she can do a test with what you just used, or with what you try next. She can just put her clean finger inside to get a baseline for how that feels, then do it again with a bit of the stuff on her finder and see if she gets a reaction.
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:39 am

Mrs. Twit and I were talking last night. I asked her how everything was with her down there and if things were getting back to normal after our attempt.

A couple reasons for me asking - one general concern for the health of my wife and second getting a gauge if I should ask if we can have sex within a few days. She stated that the burn has gone away but she still has a bit of white discharge. Sunday evening she had me look and see if it was red or if there was white discharge - I saw nothing. I went back and read the article on vaginal atrophy and I think that has been an issue for some time. I see that frequent use of the vagina helps. The big problem is that my wife only believes that PIV is the only way (mb is wrong to her - goes back to a certain president and his surgeon general who advocated masturbation and the fall out in the evangelical community) and with the pain she gets more turned off and reluctant to do more. So it is a losing proposition to even go down the path of showing her the article and showing her the only resolution. I think back to when she was given a set of vaginal weights and how the use of the weights lasted less than one week because of the side affects.

We will try again, I hope, and this time drop the use of spermacide, and use CO as the lube. I am planning to approach this weekend and hopefully there will be little pain.

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Re: We tried but failed

Postby MyWifesMan » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:55 pm

Twit: This has been a long problem in our sex life since day one. There is no foreplay - she does not want to do anything. I am not allowed to touch her before entering her so there is no getting her aroused. The only arousal comes from kissing.


Yep, what Twit likely has is the unfortunate "perfect storm." Long absence of intercourse, no foreplay or arousal, the thinning of the membranes. I can't even imagine entering my wife if she isn't considerably aroused first. Lube is not enough. But post menopause? Forgetaboutit! When my DW experienced her post-change, with all the physical and hormonal changes, she suddenly began to hurt during intercourse. At first, we thought she might have developed sensitivities to a certain lube or type. It was confusing, because changing lubes at first appeared to make the pain less noticable, but, nonetheless, it was still apparent. I did notice that frequency made it a lot better. Also, where it sometimes hurt initially, it seemed way better after a few minutes of stroking, to the point of not hurting. Now, as I recall, at times, she also would hurt upon my ejaculating (a burning sensation). This eventually got far better. My advice would be that she both understand the necessity for spending the time and effort to achieve a fair level of arousal. Yes, lube well. But also, go VERY slow upon insertion and, especially, the beginning of thrusting. Slow, gentle and easy. And until the physical situation improves, I would stay with slow and easy much the way through.

Twit, your DW needs to realize that millions of couples have to work through many of the very same physical and sexual response changes - and do so quite successfully, although it may take longer with some than others. But for her to use her present pain or challenges as an excuse to quit striving to overcome these difficulties - AS IF they could NOT be overcome - well, that is inexcusable. She must realize that your situation, at least per the physical/hormonal changes, is far from unique. And I almost get the sense that the necessary foreplay arousal time is being skipped almost as if from her end: "Let's just get this over with." And maybe from your end, "We better do this thing before she changes her mind." For her to resist you touching her - that is just wrong - it's a denial that you have sexual rights to her body, as she does to yours.

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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:39 pm

MyWIfesMan: A couple of things. The speed has not been a problem . I have always had to go slow and gentle from the first time. She has never wanted me to get her started. We have always relied on lube to help.

Next you hit on a part that does concern me more than anything. She does see many have problems and will say that they need to sit back and listen to God because he is telling you that sex us now over move on. Thus yes she sees others do something but to her that is wrong and unnatural.

Third she still does not believe she owns my body and I own hers - at least in the sexual realm. So yes the foreplay is skipped because she does not want it. She even gets upset when I ask for a bit of encouragement to get an erection so I can put on a condom.

I can go on, but you see the problem. The pain will outweigh any joy or pleasure so we will not do anything more. She may continue to please me but she will never let me please her.


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Really? Really?

Postby Job29Man » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:35 am

Wait a sec. Did you just say that she believes foreplay = masturbation = sin? :shock:

And if so, then ...

1. No foreplay on her... no arousal.
2. No arousal ... just use lots of lube to simulate arousal lubrication.
3. Now she's surprised that intercourse is painful when she only allows it without any foreplay? :shock: :shock:
4. Doesn't want to do foreplay on you to give you an erection?
5. THEN ... interprets her pain of intercourse (after SHE sabotaged it by forbidding foreplay), and your need for foreplay to get an erection, as a sign from God that "sex is over for us!" :?

Is that what she's saying? Really?

So, unless her body magically arouses itself without being touched, and unless you magically achieve an erection without being touched, and unless all this then happens after long periods of refusal with pleasure and no pain, then God is saying it's time to call it quits?
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:56 am

Job29Man:
Good understanding to a point. No she does not see foreplay as a sin but as something that is not needed. And yes masturbation is a sin - part of the problem of teaching in Christian community as a counter against the actions and teachings of a certain president and his surgeon general. Remember the 90's? Person A is a evil sinful person and anything they say is wrong and needs to have a counter argument. Thank you all on both sides of the issue who try to bring politics into every aspect of life. Tongue firmly planted in cheek.

I generally do not have problem getting an erection. A bit of kissing or just seeing her naked body still get me enough to get a condom on and then she can finish. Part of the reason I have PE is because I will have a solid erection for 20 minutes or so before she will agree to do something and act. She will not do anything unless I am erect and if I go flaccid there may be some work to regain. However she does feel that her body does not need anything to get her aroused but her mind and emotions have to be fully aroused then and only then. Thus if her system is in pain each time we have sex now, she will be less inclined to become aroused mentally or emotionally no mater what I do to get her in the mood.


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Re: We tried but failed

Postby seeking perspective » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:14 am

The Twit wrote:No she does not see foreplay as a sin but as something that is not needed.


Clearly she is wrong on this. Foreplay isn't just about physical arousal, anyway. It is an opportunity to help your wife's mind relax and connect with her emotionally.

However she does feel that her body does not need anything to get her aroused but her mind and emotions have to be fully aroused then and only then.


Cuddling for fifteen minutes with occasional kissing or touching can help create mental, emotional, and physical arousal together. It is not just a straightforward mechanical process.

And yes masturbation is a sin - part of the problem of teaching in Christian community as a counter against the actions and teachings of a certain president and his surgeon general.


I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this. Why would anyone decide what is right within a godly marriage based on what any public figure has chosen to do?

Twit, your wife has some beliefs that are wrong and that place a barrier in your marriage. Does she seem happier in your marriage these days than she used to when you were gone all the time? As much as my heart aches for you, it hurts even more for her as I think about all that she is missing.
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:06 pm

Seeking perspective: I wish it were as easy as cuddling or kissing for a few minutes to an hour. We have done that sitting on the couch after everyone goes to bed and we are alone watching something or just talking. I get turned on and I think she is getting turned on. We head to bed, I am already and she has to get ready. Somewhere between the couch and the bed she loses it all and will come to bed as if nothing just happened. By the way if I try to touch her or make a move on her she pushes away and then what mode had been going on is dead.

As for the MB issue. Unless you grew up in a very conservative, bible believing/teaching church that is almost legalistic this may sound odd. But as I have gotten older I see the same on both sides. If side A says the sky is blue side B will automatically disagree, go out document that the sky is cloudy, thus it is gray. So as for teaching in these churches if a particular person in the public eye is found to be a sinner in more than one aspect, everything they say or support is considered wrong and the people surrounding that person are suspect. So when the surgeon general said we should be teaching our young people responsible MB in a reaction to the AIDS epidemic and increases in teen pregnancies and increases in STDs among young people, the pure abstinence crowd rose up and counter taught that X, y, and z is wrong because these people are anti-Christian thus everything they say is wrong.

You asked if she is happier because I am home. One level yes, another level no because she thought I being home I would magically have all of this free time to work on organizing the house and everything dealing with our home situation - home school, finances, organizing each room in the house, daily chore lists, etc. I think it goes back to her childhood where her father would dictate everything that went on in the house and how the household would be organized and be run even down to the point of dictating what was used for cleaning. A true Type A micro manager. He has backed off over the years but still does not trust others to do anything right without him standing around watching them. So I am thinking she wants me to micro manage everything in our lives. Thus she is not completely happy I am home.

What is odd when ever I suggest we schedule two nights for us - one for a non sexual date night and another just for sexual exploration she gets upset and will not talk about it. Which goes to Job29mans comments about how she does expect the un-achievable without any work on her end and all of the work on my end.


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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:29 pm

One other thing mentioned is how it hurts some of you on think about all she is missing. She doesn't know or comprehends what she is missing. Thus why work on something when you really do not believe that something is wrong or missing. If things stop working and they are not critical - so what? Sex is not a need it is only a want or desire. So if sex is not working it is time to work on other things.


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Re: We tried but failed

Postby seeking perspective » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:32 pm

I understand this ^^^ all too well. It wasn't until I'd been working on sexual intimacy in our marriage that I caught even a glimpse of what I'd been missing--and this is something I continue to discover as our intimacy grows. I'm sad for your wife is missing what she is, and I'm sad she doesn't even realize it is something to reach for.
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:04 pm

I blew up at my wife yesterday afternoon. We had not been able to do something again making it 2 weeks since we tried and a full year since we completed our last PIV session.

I demanded she do something because I was tired of her always having issues especially for the last 13 years. I also said I am getting sick and tired of hearing how the doctors do not seem to know what is going on with her. I did not suggest that she has vaginal atrophy but after reading I am more and more convinced she has had this since the the birth of our last child almost 13 years ago.

I said she needs to do something. The best I could offer was we use better lube and start her up before I get going. I also said no more spermacide. I will use a condom but that will be our only protection. It has been almost 5 months since she got off the pill and had her last period. According to her the doctor will not declare her menopausal until she has gone a year without a period.

After I blew up she look slightly sheepish and said that better lube would work and that her mom had to get special lube made for menopausal women. But she said she was still having mild burning and other issues - very light to almost not being there. She agreed to do something and asked me to go immediately with her to the local pharmacies. We found nothing that she could use because all had a warning against use by those in pre menopause or full menopause.

This morning I apologized for blowing up but I was still angry that there has not been a solution. Her doctor and his clinic has more assess to better documentation than just the simple webmd and mayo clinic but she and the doctor, PA, and/or nurse could at least look on those sites together. I have yet to here from her but who knows what she will say tonight.

Any suggestions on lube will help. I am the primary person to buy all protections and lubes. Please note we have Walmart pharmacy, Walgreens, and CVS within driving distance. I do se this week as not being a good week with all of the stress she will be in over an upcoming performances of our home school choirs and art programs. She is the current chairperson of the parents group"


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Re: We tried but failed

Postby seeking perspective » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:19 pm

Huh, so blowing up at her had an impact?

The Twit wrote:After I blew up she look slightly sheepish and said that better lube would work and that her mom had to get special lube made for menopausal women. But she said she was still having mild burning and other issues - very light to almost not being there. She agreed to do something and asked me to go immediately with her to the local pharmacies. We found nothing that she could use because all had a warning against use by those in pre menopause or full menopause.


I'm interested that your wife has said that people don't need to have sex after a certain age, yet she admits knowing that her mom needed some lube--and she apparently has spoken with her mom about sex?

The best lubricant I've found is coconut oil from the grocery store. While you can't use that with latex condoms, you can use it with lambskin ones. Given that your wife has a history of sensitivity, be sure to get the refined coconut oil.

Also, I've found Replens to be helpful. It isn't a lubricant exactly, but it does help with vaginal dryness and has helped with some of the more difficult vaginal symptoms of declining estrogen levels (including thinning tissue, which can cause itching and burning and make a woman prone to infection). I don't know if it's helped me with sex, but it helps me be more comfortable throughout the day.

According to her the doctor will not declare her menopausal until she has gone a year without a period.


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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:39 pm

I cannot guarantee that she and her mom talked about sex other than the general talk about this pain and that pain with or without sex. All I can report is that they talked about what her mom experienced and sex may not have come up.

I use a non-latex condom but not the lamb skin ones - too expensive. I am not sure if I have gotten refined CO. I will check tonight. Have you or anyone experienced astroglide's natural lube?

I have yet to hear from her but I do know that the burning has gone on for two weeks and this has caused her to be more frigid than ever.


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Re: We tried but failed

Postby seeking perspective » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:56 pm

The Twit wrote:I am not sure if I have gotten refined CO. I will check tonight.


The reason I mention the refined CO is that my husband had a reaction to the unrefined stuff. (He got a rash in a place where no guy wants a rash.)

Have you or anyone experienced astroglide's natural lube?


I have, but I prefer CO. The astroglide stuff doesn't last and it feels sticky. CO leaves my insides feeling better, too.
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby Learning1 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:12 pm

The Twit wrote:I have yet to hear from her but I do know that the burning has gone on for two weeks and this has caused her to be more frigid than ever.
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^^^I can't reconcile this. If she says she has burning, than I tend to give her the benefit of the doubt. But from what you describe you did for sex, it doesn't seem that burning could go on for two weeks. :?: :?: :?:

My experience when sex was new and I had burning or soreness afterwards, it abated typically within 12-36 hours, and definitely no longer than 48 hours. That was after some prolonged frisky sex.

She needs to see the gyn, if she is still having burning two weeks latter.

Discuss (maybe confront her is a better word), with the importance of arousal and foreplay, read the Song of Songs together, do a Bible study on it.

Are you opposed to getting snipped, as that would take care of the condom issue and you could use coconut oil.
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:52 am

When we had some time alone I asked how she is feeling. She said that she did have some discharge yesterday and then started feeling better. She is now not burning. She will be talking to her doctor about some creams or other remedies he would recommend. One good thing is neither of us have had a reaction to CO, unrefined or refined. Thus she is willing to use CO as a lube.

The biggest thing is to get her to be willing to do more to get her aroused. I know that she does not like to get aroused to almost the point of O and then losing it and we have to work to get it back. She only wants to O once and be done with it. If she Os before I enter her or before I O then she gets turned off and cannot continue.

I did share with her that I have used CO on my rear end because of rash and other issues and found a tremendous amount of relief. She has heard a lot form friends and has used it once in awhile and saw some help. Thus she is very willing to try it. I suggested she try it even when we are not planning to have sex. She said she will think about that.


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Re: We tried but failed

Postby Job29Man » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:56 am

The Twit wrote:I blew up at my wife yesterday afternoon. We had not been able to do something again making it 2 weeks since we tried and a full year since we completed our last PIV session.

I demanded she do something because I was tired of her always having issues especially for the last 13 years. I also said I am getting sick and tired of hearing how the doctors do not seem to know what is going on with her.


Wait a sec! Who are you really? And what have you done with our friend The Twit?
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Re: We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:33 am

Side question related to my issue. How much affect does HBC pill have on prolonging or delaying the onset of menopause? How about leading to the vaginal atrophy as shared earlier?

I ask because I am studying many things about hormones and their affect on different aspects in ones body. I am concerned that the HBC did control her erratic cycles what other things did they damage.


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We tried but failed

Postby The Twit » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:43 am

Job29Man wrote:Wait a sec! Who are you really? And what have you done with our friend The Twit?


One of the issues I have always had is the burying things deep in me and letting it build and build in me until I have had enough, then I erupt. Running, cross country skiing, and swimming - times to be alone with God - helped in keeping things in check. However, I have not been able to do much of those things, little snow this year, too expensive for a pool membership, and running has been out for various reasons.

I have tried to do this the nice way and gently prod and poke to get action. I have asked nicely, and presented facts and figures. All too no avail. With most of the kids away, we were in our house, and a discussion about a homeschool group meeting tonight where the men will be meeting upstairs and the women down (where the kitchen is - they will be talking about herbal stuff and better cooking for health for the whole family) I asked a few questions which then led me to really blow my top. I am hoping that tonight will not be another beat the husbands over the head because we are not doing enough to provide, protect, organize the house, etc. which is why we are not getting any sex or other actions from our wives. She looked at me like a deer in the headlights and I really blew up using our life as an example.


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