rubbed raw

Painfull intercourse, pain with sexual activity, and pain that prevents sex or makes sex difficult.
panwan
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rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:14 pm

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum. I am writing to ask for help in finding a way to resolve pain during PIV sex due the tribological conditions of the act (tribology is in the name for the science of friction, wear, and lubrication of sliding surfaces in contact). Since DW produces no detectable natural lubrication, we have been applying a large amount of coconut oil to provide lubrication for PIV. After about ten minutes she feels "rubbed raw" and needs to stop. DW has experienced this pain since the very beginning of our marriage, although I did not know about this for many years. Over the years this has had a profound and negative impact on DW's attitude towards sex and it has become a marriage difficulty.

Question #1 - What is a normal length of time that PIV can be carried out without pain for the wife? Perhaps her experience is not abnormal, for I am completely unaware of what is normative in this area.
Question #2 - Are there any suggestions for how we might be able to diminish or remove this pain?

Our frequency of PIV has been about three times per month. Let me know if any other information may be helpful.

Thanks,

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Leah
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Re: rubbed raw

Postby Leah » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:26 pm

Have your wife talk to her doctor about physical therapy for pelvic strength.
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Re: rubbed raw

Postby love2 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:51 pm

Is she on birth control? If so, what kind?
Do you use condoms? If so, so they fit well without any folds in the material?

Is wife sexually aroused via oral sex or manual stimulation before you attempt penetration?

Have you tried any water based lubricants or any lubricants other than coconut oil?

Is wife premenopausal or menopausal (what's her age)?

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:54 pm

Leah,

Thank you for responding. My wife has talked about this with her OBGYN who inspected her and did not see anything wrong. The OBGYN and her regular doctor have not raised the idea of Physical Therapy for pelvic strength. Do you have some information that would indicate that Physical Therapy could help this issue?

Love2,

Thank you also for responding. We ceased using condoms about five years ago. Condoms were the only form of birth control we had ever used with the exception of abstinence during the fertile time of her cycle. We have been married for about 15 years and never tried oral sex. I proposed this for the first time about two months ago, but my wife refused to receive it. Main comments were "it's gross", "borderline sin", "dirty", "that's where pee comes out", "I can't believe a Christian husband would ever ask for that", etc,.. Foreplay is typically 30 minutes in duration. Half of that time will include stimulation of the clitoris using one finger lubricated with coconut oil. The foreplay definitely helps, for it is much more difficult for her if we rush things and shorten the time. We were regular users of the water based lubricant Astroglide from early on in the marriage until we discovered coconut oil about 4-5 years ago. My wife believes that Astroglide and similar lubricants contain chemicals that were adversely affecting her, so she will no longer consider using them. She is about 40 yrs old and she is not having premenopause.

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby Leah » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:29 pm

You might want to look over this thread.
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“I have learned now that while those who speak about one's miseries usually hurt, those who keep silence hurt more.”--C.S. Lewis


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panwan
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Re: rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:30 pm

Further info that may or may not be relevant: My wife was injured during cheer leading in high school. She was accidentally dropped from a height of about six feet. Her vulva landed upon the heel of another cheerleader. She had bleeding, severe pain, and a week of stinging urination after this. The hymen was not damage in the accident. Maybe this could have messed something up?

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby be64 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:37 pm

To answer your question of how long can intercourse last without pain, my wife and I have gone for as long as a hour without problems. Normally it’s more like 15 minutes every other day.

I was going to suggest Astroglide or Astroglide X but it seems you’ve already tried this sort of lubricant.
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Re: rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:47 pm

be64,

That is very helpful information and begins to confirm that we may really have a problem. I still don't know if 60mins is normal in general or not, but it is useful to know your experience as one data point.

We found the coconut oil to be a superior lubricant relative to astroglide.

Thanks

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby Leah » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:27 pm

Have your wife give PT a try. It made all the difference for me.
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love2
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Re: rubbed raw

Postby love2 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:33 pm

Yes, we could also have intercourse for 60 minutes without pain but not everyday, more like every other day.

Where is the pain coming from the vaginal opening, the vulva, the clitoris? Has wife described the pain?

Has she always had pain like this? Based on her age, it could be premenopause or menopause related especially if it's new pain or recently worsened.

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby C_Brown » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:28 pm

Is your wife a redhead? Part of being a redhead is having a much lower pain tolerance, and more delicate/sensitive skin in general. There is an upside in the bedroom to being a redhead, but lasting through 10 minutes of full on thrusting is not usually one of them.
So yes, I know that love is unconditional. But I also know that it can be unpredictable, unexpected, uncontrollable, unbearable and strangely easy to mistake for loathing -- Yvaine (in the movie Stardust)

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Re: RE: Re: rubbed raw

Postby love2 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:35 pm

Sex shouldn't be painful at all though, right?

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:20 am

Love2,

Thank you for sharing your experience. Her pain is related to the shape of the penis. The proper name for the tip seems to be the "Glans Penis" (I had to look this up) and this section has a larger diameter than the shaft below it. She experiences discomfort in the vaginal opening when the glans penis passes through it, but as far as I know the vaginal opening is not causing any problem once the glans penis is beyond it. The main issue is the rubbing of the glans penis against the lining/skin of the interior vaginal wall. Being the section with the largest diameter it applies the most pressure and friction against the vaginal wall. My wife cannot remain still during penetration or she will experience discomfort. If I remain still she will have to move to keep continual relative motion between these parts. After a certain amount of rubbing between the glans penis and the wall she becomes sore there and describes that pain as being "rubbed raw" which I think is damage/wear on the skin of the vaginal wall. The pain increases with time until in cannot be endured. By choosing different depths of penetration we can move the position where pain occurs. She has not mentioned any pain in the clitoris. Sex has always been painful for her in this way. She is not available now, but when she is I will have her confirm if my description was accurate.

C_Brown,

Thanks for your reply, my wife is not a redhead.

Leah,

Thank you for the link to the other thread. I read the thread and the two articles referenced in it. PT sounds like a very good option for some types of problems, but per the description above, I have not yet established that the type of problem she has is the same type of issue that would be resolved by PT. PT seems to address muscle issues, whereas this is I think more of a skin/friction/rubbing due to localized contact pressure issue. I am not well informed about medical topics, I would appreciate any further information that might help me understand if PT addresses the kind of pain she has.

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby love2 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:07 am

I have not had the type of pain that you are describing but the way you have described it makes sense. So, the vaginal can atrophy causing the skin to become thinner and less supple as well as less wet. The types of problems and pain you have described are not normal and do require some kind of medical attention, I'd think. Has she talked to her doctor about it, what did he/she say? You will want to do some research and try to locate a gynocological specialist that deals with gynocological issues and, if possible, someone that specializes in pain issues. You may have to really work at this as all doctors do not take these issues as seriously as they should.

Do you have your foreskin intact? Have you had any problems with your foreskin such as not being able to retract it, infections, things like that?
What direction does your penis point when erect, straight out, angled upwards, angled downwards?

Do different sexual positions help with the pain? Do other positions make it worse? Not every couple can do all sex positions due to how their bodies line up.

Had your wife had a vaginal delivery? How long ago? Did she have an episiotomy or significant vaginal tearing requiring stitches? Did she have more vaginal pain after childbirth that never resolved? Sometimes scar tissue can form after labor and delivery that makes sex painful. This would also require a specialist to look at it.

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Re: RE: Re: rubbed raw

Postby love2 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:25 am

panwan wrote:Further info that may or may not be relevant: My wife was injured during cheer leading in high school. She was accidentally dropped from a height of about six feet. Her vulva landed upon the heel of another cheerleader. She had bleeding, severe pain, and a week of stinging urination after this. The hymen was not damage in the accident. Maybe this could have messed something up?
It's possible this could have caused problems with either scar tissue or nerve damage, which there may be treatments for.

There is also a condition called vaginismus where a woman involuntarily contracts the vagina on penetration during sex. A negative view of sex can cause this or something being wrong anatomically like scar tissue could cause this. You might want to Google it.

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:58 am

Love2,

I'll ask her to write something up about what her doctor said, but she may not have the time to do this until later in the week.

I was circumcised shortly after birth. The penis is pointed between straight out and upwards when erect and it is quite straight and not substantially curved. My wife will permit only two positions due to a fear pain among other reasons. She had two vaginal delivers: The first about a decade ago, and the second over a year ago. Neither had an episiotomy. I don't remember if she required stitches. Ever since her 2nd delivery there is a sore spot on the vaginal wall that we have to avoid. I'll ask her to provide some more details.

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby ledgemoor » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:45 am

Panwan:

First of all, kudos to you for being able to last for an hour :D.

To answer your questions, no, sex should not hurt at all. And you should be able to go for any length of time.

Since DW produces no detectable natural lubrication, ....
Ok, there's your problem. We keep some Astroglide around (more for use on me than her :lol:), but rarely use it. DW produces more than enough natural lubrication continuously during our time together. I can't do PIV for an hour, but I rub her clitoris for more than an hour sometimes, and that's more tender than the inside of her vagina. My manual stimulation includes G-spot, plus I stick my finger in there a lot to get more lube for her clitoris.

Any artificial lube will wear out, get absorbed, or run out on the sheets sooner or later. You're going 10 minutes, so stop every five and add more lube.

But nothing is going to protect her as well as her natural lube. DW lost her ovaries, and is on bHRT now. We are quite familiar with what hormones do what, and can control them to an extent. Testosterone is what affects lubrication secretions during arousal. Estrogen affects the overall elasticity and moisture of the vagina. So get that all checked out. Go to a4m.com and click on Directory. Also ask a compounding pharmacy for a physician referral sheet. Talk to them. There may be one or two doctors in particular that their customers speak highly of.

Has she had a baby? DW is petite, and we had regular problems with soreness. That all went away when she gave birth. The funny thing is, she is apparently larger down there now, but she feels tighter, probably thanks to the Kegel exercises she did in preparation for the pregnancy and the fact that since she was no longer in pain, her muscles felt more free to contract when she gets aroused. She was not lubricating as well then, and maybe if she was getting as wet then as she is now, it would have been better. But it sounds like she may just be too small (or you to big :D). If that is the case, getting a set of graduated dilators could help. Leah's pelvic PT could help in that case. At least do Kegels.

But the big problem is her not lubricating. Start there. It is most likely hormonal.
Everything you ever wanted in life is just outside your comfort zone (Jamie Lee Curtis)

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:11 am

Ledgemoor,

There may be some misunderstanding. I don't know that I would or could last for an hour. If I could it would be nice, but I have not tried. Trouble is that DW can sustain not much more than about ten minutes - so that is where things end for us. I've suggested to DW that we pull out to replenish lubrication, but she is opposed to this because of pain during insertion as the glans penis passes through the vaginal opening. I agree the best solution would be to resolve the problem of missing natural lubrication. I will suggest that she obtain a measurement of hormone levels, but I expect she would be unwilling to consider any treatment to change actual hormone levels. We have two children. I did suggest the idea of dilators and she raised the concern that I would just required longer to O and so overall it wouldn't help anyway. I didn't agree and that discussion hasn't progressed any further.

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby panwan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:43 am

Love2,

Follow up to questions:

Q: what did your doctor say about the pain?
A: The doctor expanded the vaginal canal for a visual inspection and said everything was structurally ok and that she did not see anything wrong. This took place a few months after the birth or our 2nd. The doctor inquired what we did for lubrication. DW does not recall any other details. Doctor did not say if she saw scar tissue, however, I think if that is something that can be seen she would have mentioned it.

Q: were stiches required for tearing after delivery.
A: yes for first and second child.

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Re: rubbed raw

Postby love2 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:51 pm

She shouldn't still be sore 1 year later unless she tore significantly. Even then, you would want to go to a doctor and explain that there is still a sore spot.

My post partum pain resolved at approximately 10 weeks or so which means having pain a year later isn't normal.

Unfortunately, when penetration hurts and sex continues it can cause psychological tramua to the wife because painful sex is mentally upsetting. Would she be open to seeing another doctor and doing [oral sex] or hand jobs until the vaginal pain is resolved?

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