Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

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Dale
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby Dale » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:46 am

hubbyforher wrote:Let me warn you, however, that you may begin to feel less spry in the next week or so. What happened your first week is that the exogenous test you added with the TD supplemented your natural test production so your total test was: T = Testim + body production. Now your total T is likely higher than your internal body max threshold, so your body sees the high T in your bloodstream, and tells your body you don't need to produce any more test naturally. So T = Testim, as your "body production" levels go toward zero. When this occurs, most docs will up the dose fo the Testim (or Androgel, or whatever), so that your levels are high enough for you to feel like you're in the "sweet spot."

Good luck!!


Yeah, I know that might happen, but ANYTHING is an improvement over how I was feeling!

I didn't expect to feel better so soon at all. I thought it would take a week or so. Which just goes to show that I may have been way below what my body really needs to function normally. So I'm hoping when it all settles out in the next week or so that I'm left with my normal mood and energy. I'm just on the 5 mg dose right now, and the doc said I could go up to 10, but my insurance will only pay for it for 30 days at a time, and if I double the dose I'd run out in 15.

Dale

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby newbeliever » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:04 pm

Hey Dale, I am ecstatic to here the positive effects. If your doc ups your dose to 10g and writes a script for that, your insurance should cover it without extra cost. You will just recieve 60 5g packets (if that is what you are using). I pray things continue to progress for you.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby mom210 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:17 pm

If your insurance indeed has a "cap"on what they will cover..you can always have your dr write a scrip for a compounded gel at the same strength as the "brand name" ( either "Anddrogel or "Testim) this is a great deal less expensisve....it will run you less than $50 a month without insurance.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby Dale » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:27 am

Thanks, I'll try those suggestions about the insurance!

I'm still very much enjoying the benefits of the Androgel. My concentration is so much better, and my procrastination level is down. Instead of continually putting off stuff (especially unpleasant things), hoping they will just go away, I'm taking each situation as it comes and dealing with it. I've even got some things caught up that have been waiting in the wings, although there is still more to do, because I was putting so many things aside.

But it is so cool to not feel like a zombie anymore, and to enjoy my kids again (my 14-year-old, who is a wonderful young man, was driving me crazy). Now, I've got my sense of humor back, I'm much more patient and attentive to them and to my DW, and I have consistent energy throughout the day. Usually I end up going to bed before my wife, and most of the time I would be completely conked out by the time she got there (and it would only be a couple minutes!). I would not even remember her coming into the room! On the Androgel, though, I feel so much more in control of when I go to sleep, and can stay up talking with her and loving on her for as long as she needs!

I can't believe the change in just a couple of days, and I can feel the levels beginning to settle in some, but they still seem to be at a very nice place! :D It's like my body was craving this, and the relief now is incredible!

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby blushingwife » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:01 am

Dale,

I showed your latest posts to my DH (who is also a minister) and he was amazed at how much similar his life is to what you describe to your pre-androgel experience. He said: "That's me exactly"

Because he is only 33, we are still chewing over the options.
He has been running everyday and that has helped him a lot. He will also begin on some supplements recommended by people who experienced success. Having said all that, reading about the amazing results people like you have with androgel/testim, gives us hope that if everything else fails, there is alsways HRT.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby Ulysses61 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:13 am

Dale,

I am so happy for you!! You are very fortunate to see the effects of the Androgel so quickly, especially in the libido area. Bear in mind the effects will "balance out" over time, though you still will probably get the "Androgel high" for an hour after applying it. This is marvelous news for you and your DW! :D

Keep us updated on the effects over time. Wonderful news!

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby newbeliever » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:49 am

Clay wrote:
Dale wrote:[color=#FF0000]Well, I went to the doctor and pushed him to give me a trial of Androgel -- even though he said my testosterone levels were normal (at like 350, but I sure didn't feel normal at all!!). And I just have to say....

This stuff is AMAZING!...


I'll have what he's having!

Went to the doctor with the laundry list yesterday. Said it's depression and the difficulty O'ing was just relationship problems (like the depression aint?) , then gives me an AD with delayed O as a very common side effect. No blood work, (despite an unrelated complaint that should've triggered bloodwork) - looking for a new doc.

[On a humorous note, I searched the internet all over for folks experience with this AD. I came here and searched, and the first thread I pulled up - looked like a ghost town because 2/3 of the people in it were on my ignore list. Things that make you go hmmmm. They probably have me on ignore too. :)]


Yes find another doc and ask outright for them to check your T levels. Even if they are "certain" it is due to depression. When my DH went, the doctor initially said she thought it was depression (and I am sure he does have depression to some degree), but I asked her to please check his levels anyway and she agreed. Needless to say his levels came back at 281 and he is 33. His DHEA-S was also very low.
Depression can be a symptom of low T, so treating the deprssion in this case is only treating a symptom.
Last edited by newbeliever on Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby Ulysses61 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:30 am

This is all so frustrating. Doctors are supposed to be there to serve and/or heal the patient. Depression is a VERY common symptom of low t. and any primary care Dr. should know this. Even endocronologists seem hopelessly out of date and ridig in prescribing Androgel/Testim. My DH's Dr. told us it's because so many men want it simply for steroid use, building musles, etc.

I guess men with normal to high t. levels don't know that if they took Androgel, it would not make them hornier or stronger, it would usually cause enlarged breasts, pattern baldness and aggression. It only is effective for men naturally starved for t.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby Dale » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:53 am

Ulysses61 wrote: It only is effective for men naturally starved for t.


That's where I feel I was at, even though my levels were at 350, which was normal according to the doc. In fact, he wrote out the prescription before he looked at the test results from a few months back. When he saw them, he was almost to the point of asking for the prescription slip back -- which was not gonna happen! :lol: He finally said, "well, it won't hurt you, so give it a try."

When I go back in another week or so for an update, I'm going to tell him to give me a never-ending prescription for this stuff! :lol: :lol:

Dale

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby thebigfish » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:22 am

I guess men with normal to high t. levels don't know that if they took Androgel, it would not make them hornier or stronger, it would usually cause enlarged breasts

:shock: I thought that was an estrogen problem.
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby blushingwife » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:24 am

thebigfish wrote:
I guess men with normal to high t. levels don't know that if they took Androgel, it would not make them hornier or stronger, it would usually cause enlarged breasts

:shock: I thought that was an estrogen problem.


If you pump too much testosterone into the body, it will try to compensate by producing more estrogen, then causing "moobs"
Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby newbeliever » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:26 am

I don't know the dynamics behind it, but it can happen.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby Ulysses61 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:32 am

Excess t. levels in the body of a normal man convert to estrogen in their body.

For men like Dale or my hubby (who both had original t. levels in the 300's), their bodies desperately need the testosterone. But let's say a man with a t. level of 900 takes Androgel. It will not make him hornier, stronger, more confident or have a huge libido. It will simply convert to estrogen in his body.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby mom210 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:15 pm

blushingwife wrote:
thebigfish wrote:
I guess men with normal to high t. levels don't know that if they took Androgel, it would not make them hornier or stronger, it would usually cause enlarged breasts

:shock: I thought that was an estrogen problem.


If you pump too much testosterone into the body, it will try to compensate by producing more estrogen, then causing "moobs"
Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.



you got it..that is exactly what happens..

and Dale..at 350 you were not normal...normal for your age is closer to 600.

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby thebigfish » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:25 pm

let's say a man with a t. level of 900 takes Androgel. It will not make him hornier, stronger, more confident or have a huge libido. It will simply convert to estrogen in his body.

Hmmm. Maybe that's why the men in my family are super horny ,but have moobs. Too much testosterone?
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby hubbyforher » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:54 pm

Technically, it's the elevated test levels in your body that cause the elevated estrogen in males in TRT.

The difference between testosterone and estrogen is extremely small. The testosterone molecule in a man's body will convert to estrogen via a process called aromatization, wherein the aromatase enzyme acts on the test molecule to convert it to estrogen. This happens all the time, but when it occurs too much, the elevated estrogen can give a man gyno.

What is typically done to combat gyno is for a man to take an aromatase inhibitor. This drug competes for the sites on the testosterone molecule, I believe, so that the aromatase enzyme has fewer active sites to do its dirty work. Thus these "AIs" inhibit the action of the aromatase enzyme. Common AIs are anastrazole and letrozole.

Guys needs to be careful with the AIs. It's actually healthy to have a decent amount of estrogen in the body, just not too much. If you take too much of the AI, your estrogen levels can go all the way to zero, and when estrogen is that low, say goodbye to your libido!
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby thebigfish » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:40 pm

Wow. fearfully and wonderfully made!
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby Dale » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:31 am

Clay wrote:1) Will it shut down sperm production, how soon, and is it reversible? We're in no condition marriagewise to be having kids, but its still difficult to make a decision no biological kids ever. (Assuming that to be true)
2) To be honest, even though it looked suspicious from these threads, I was shocked myself - in part because I'm 39 and still have acne. (Doesn't this stuff ever go away? I feel like I'm stuck in jr high)
3) Am I really on this stuff for life once I start?


1. I had a V several years ago, so I don't have any experience with this.

2. Actually, after I started the Androgel, my skin has gotten better. I had some scattered acne as well (and I'm 48!), but the Androgel has lessened it -- as well as seeming to give some extra sun protection, which was a side benefit that really surprised me.

3. I started a couple weeks ago, and I have to tell you that I don't care if I do have to be on it for life, because it is wonderful stuff! It has brought me back to feeling better than I have since I was in my 20s! I have increased concentration and motivation for everything in life. My energy level is wonderful, and I don't ever want to go back to the way I was before!

Dale

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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby hubbyforher » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:34 am

Clay wrote:Okay - first off - apologies to Mr Rkt for chiming in on earlier ED threads without the whole picture. Went to the doc complaining of 2/3 of the laundry list, he said I think you have ADD and your depression is reactive. Asked him about low T as he was leaving and he didn't seem to think it was the culprit but had absolutely no problem with throwing it in the lab work he had ordered. Came back 218. :shock: His office called me with the results and phoned in a proscription without talking a whole lot about it. I have a followup visit scheduled first of the week. I called the office, talked to a nurse but she didn't seem to have a lot of clue about low T or Androgel. I have a few questions that I've seen danced around but couldn't find quick answers on the boards.

1) Will it shut down sperm production, how soon, and is it reversible? We're in no condition marriagewise to be having kids, but its still difficult to make a decision no biological kids ever. (Assuming that to be true)
2) To be honest, even though it looked suspicious from these threads, I was shocked myself - in part because I'm 39 and still have acne. (Doesn't this stuff ever go away? I feel like I'm stuck in jr high)
3) Am I really on this stuff for life once I start?


Clay, I will try to answer your questions.
(1) test supplementation will negatively affect your sperm production, however, it will not necessarily kill it completely. If you want to play it safe, hold off on TRT until after you've had the kids. IMO, having kids when I'm in my 40s makes me tired just thinking about it.

(2) Acne can be caused by many factors not testosterone related. However, since you have an acne problem, it is fair to say that the TRT will aggravate that further. There are prescription drugs to address the acne, one used to be called accutane, but I think that's off the market now. I'm sure there is other stuff to fix that.

(3) If your low test levels are caused by hypogonadism, which is a reasonable conclusion, then yes, if you want to elevate your test levels you will need to do so for the rest of your life. Going off won't kill you, but your levels will drop back down to where they were, and perhaps even lower because whatever low production you used to have will likely have been shut down during your prolonged supplementation. Some people take HCG during TRT to keep their testes working so that if they ever come off they have a better chance of regaining the little natural production they once had.

good luck!
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Re: Hormone Replacement Therapy for men- Pro or Con?

Postby mom210 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:22 am

Dh is on TRt..and what you have been told by the two responders is true...also, know that you can bank your sperm for future use..that may be a good idea..because many men with T problems also have fertility problems..although not all..( dh is a case in point) :)


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