Expectations

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Expectations

Postby Poopa » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:13 pm

My DW and I seem to have come to a point where we have disparate expectations for our current sexual activities. We are both mid 60's. Some months ago I began experiencing ED and recently started on Testosterone therapy. It has been helpful and provided both a renewed interest and also ability in love making. My DW on the other hand is having trouble with orgasms and contends that this is now to be expected. She had a hysterectomy many years ago that has left her without hormone production and this contributes to her past and current difficulty with orgasms. While we try manual stimulation frequently she says she little or no feeling. Actually, orgasms have always been difficult to achieve. I love here dearly and want only to continue the strong closeness that we have felt over 44 years of marriage. Sex has been an important part of our lives during that time and I am not willing to give it up without a gallant effort. We both want to hang on to what we've had. Actually, I believe that she is somewhat disappointed that a remedy has become available to me while she feels a decreasing libido. I have an expectation that if I can continue to provide her with orgasms she will have a continuing and perhaps increased interest in sexual activity. So my question is specifically, what is a reasonable expectation for sexual activity at age 65 and beyond? Having expectations that are not compatible, I want to adjust my thinking if they are not reasonable or I want to find ways to solve the problem.

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Re: Expectations

Postby Leah » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:33 pm

Can your wife's issues be addressed medically?
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Re: Expectations

Postby Gemma » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:51 pm

Poopa wrote: My DW on the other hand is having trouble with orgasms and contends that this is now to be expected. She had a hysterectomy many years ago that has left her without hormone production and this contributes to her past and current difficulty with orgasms. While we try manual stimulation frequently she says she little or no feeling. Actually, orgasms have always been difficult to achieve.


I can't address the other things in your post but wanted to comment on the hyster. I had a complete hyster over ten years ago (ie, uterus and ovaries removed) and while I don't know all the symptoms which can occur after this type of surgery, my own hyster did not in any way, shape or form hinder me from having O's or hinder me from having feelings there. You might want to research that at the HysterSisters site and maybe go with your wife to discuss her difficulties with her doctor. Her Hyster may not be the culprit. It could be caused by something else which may be treatable.
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Re: Expectations

Postby Poopa » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:10 pm

Thanks for the advice. I will check out the information provided. One thing I should also mention that may be a contributing factor is that DW has taken Bupropion (Wellbutrin) for several years. It is likely that the medication has also been detrimental to libido and sensations. She mentions the lack of hormones as being the major culprit and, Gemma, I will tell her that your hysterectomy was complete. Her's was also complete in that both the uterus and ovaries were removed. Often the ovaries are left therefore hormone impact is minimal. She has discussed the issue with her doctor but was told that hormone therapy is not recommended at this stage. We are uncertain what remedies might be available.

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Re: Expectations

Postby Gemma » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:23 pm

Poopa wrote: One thing I should also mention that may be a contributing factor is that DW has taken Bupropion (Wellbutrin) for several years. It is likely that the medication has also been detrimental to libido and sensations.


Wellbutrin is one medication which is known for enhancing sex drive and sexual desire. While it *could possibly be* detrimental to your wife's sexual health, I would venture to say that it is highly UNlikely. Fwiw-- I take it myself and it doesn't inhibit my SD or sexual desire at all.

Poopa wrote: She mentions the lack of hormones as being the major culprit and, Gemma, I will tell her that your hysterectomy was complete. Her's was also complete in that both the uterus and ovaries were removed. Often the ovaries are left therefore hormone impact is minimal. She has discussed the issue with her doctor but was told that hormone therapy is not recommended at this stage. We are uncertain what remedies might be available.


After her surgery your wife's doctor did not put her on premarin or something or recommend she use a natural product??? I've never heard of that. Everyone I know who has had a complete hyster is taking SOMETHING for hot flashes and such. I was on premarin for a number of years. Now I take a product called "Super Strength Soy Isoflavones" which I buy online from vitaminshoppe.com .
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Re: Expectations

Postby Poopa » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:57 am

No, she has not taken any hormones for years. There has been much controversy regarding hormones and their relationship to various cancers and it was decided, based on her doctor's recommendation, to stop taking any hormones altogether. Again that was a long time ago. I see that you are suggesting the use of some natural remedies as perhaps helpful. There seems to be so much quackery today in the field of natural supplements that we remain suspicious about their relative effectiveness and costs. And trying to keep things in perspective let's remember that we are in our 60's. What may be effective for someone younger may not be an option for us today. I suspect that there are many couples in our age category with the same issues. Getting back to my original question, what can be a normal, reasonable expectation for us in our 60's. I want to be sure that I am not expecting the impossible which can only lead to stress and frustration. But if it is reasonable then we can pursue some possible remedies. There are many products available, such as creams to increase sensitivity, that advertise their effectiveness. Perhaps that is an option and if others have experienced their benefits, well we are all for experimenting.

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Re: Expectations

Postby Gemma » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:57 am

Poopa wrote: I see that you are suggesting the use of some natural remedies as perhaps helpful. There seems to be so much quackery today in the field of natural supplements that we remain suspicious about their relative effectiveness and costs. And trying to keep things in perspective let's remember that we are in our 60's. What may be effective for someone younger may not be an option for us today.


I'm in my 50's so I'm no spring chicken. Does your wife suffer with hot flashes and such? If she does, I would certainly find a doc to discuss this. Tell the doc about any and all negative symptoms your wife's getting and see what they suggest. I would die of "hot flash overdose" if I didn't take something. I just can't imagine a person not taking anything after a complete hyster. Have you gotten a second opinion or did you guys simply go with what that doc told you? I'd go for a second and even third opinion before resorting to what that first doc told her.

Poopa wrote: Getting back to my original question, what can be a normal, reasonable expectation for us in our 60's. I want to be sure that I am not expecting the impossible which can only lead to stress and frustration. But if it is reasonable then we can pursue some possible remedies. There are many products available, such as creams to increase sensitivity, that advertise their effectiveness. Perhaps that is an option and if others have experienced their benefits, well we are all for experimenting.


I can't tell you what's normal for you but what I am trying to delicately say is--- The two things you mentioned that wife blames for the sexual issues-- being on Wellbutrin and having had a complete hyster--- I've not heard of those things inhibiting a healthy sex life--- not from anybody I know. Could it be possible that your wife is blaming it on those things as a way to *innocently* avoid having a healthy sex life? Not accusing, just thinking out loud and looking at all options.

Regarding natural remedies-- Please don't just go in a store or online and buy something just because it says "natural" because that won't mean that it will be effective for what your wife needs. Before I started on the natural supplement I take, I ran it by a number of people I know who have had complete hysters AND I ran it by my doc.
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Re: Expectations

Postby Poopa » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:10 pm

Gemma,
Thanks for your input. No, she does not suffer from hot flashes. It has been a long time since she has experienced any of those symptoms.
I can't tell you what's normal for you but what I am trying to delicately say is--- The two things you mentioned that wife blames for the sexual issues-- being on Wellbutrin and having had a complete hyster--- I've not heard of those things inhibiting a healthy sex life--- not from anybody I know. Could it be possible that your wife is blaming it on those things as a way to *innocently* avoid having a healthy sex life? Not accusing, just thinking out loud and looking at all options.

OK, let's talk about my expectations. Maybe that will help clarify the issues. My expectations are that we should be able to enjoy PIV intercourse 3 times a week accompanied by at least one orgasm for my DW. I would like to have DW initiate occasionally and be an active (agressive) participant in the activity because she really does enjoy it and eagerly seeks out the end result of an occasional orgasm for herself. I dislike passiveness on her part and seek greater participation. I am of the opinion that better and more frequent orgasms would be a great help. It is important to me that I physically please my DW. Actually, pleasing my wife is almost on the same plane as achieving my own orgasm. I realize that orgasm for a woman isn't necessary on every occasion in order to be satisfied. Is this a reasonable expectation? What is the opinion and experience of others in the mid 60's age category? What can be considered a "healthy sex life" in the mid 60's? What is the reasonable expectation? Yes, I realize that there are those who have a wide variation in their opinions, but what can we surmise as a fairly "normal" level of sexual activity?

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Re: Expectations

Postby Gemma » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:14 pm

Poopa wrote: My expectations are that we should be able to enjoy PIV intercourse 3 times a week accompanied by at least one orgasm for my DW. I would like to have DW initiate occasionally and be an active (agressive) participant in the activity because she really does enjoy it and eagerly seeks out the end result of an occasional orgasm for herself. I dislike passiveness on her part and seek greater participation. I am of the opinion that better and more frequent orgasms would be a great help. It is important to me that I physically please my DW. Actually, pleasing my wife is almost on the same plane as achieving my own orgasm. I realize that orgasm for a woman isn't necessary on every occasion in order to be satisfied. Is this a reasonable expectation?


Sounds reasonable to me.

Poopa wrote: What is the opinion and experience of others in the mid 60's age category? What can be considered a "healthy sex life" in the mid 60's?


Give folks time to reply to this. You might receive quicker results if you change your subject heading to make it obvious that you're only wanting to hear from those in their mid-60's. Not to discourage you and I might be wrong but I kind of think that most of the members here are in their 30's and 40's.
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Re: Expectations

Postby mom210 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:22 pm

Dh is in his 50's..but my mother and father are 68 yr old and they have a fairly active sex life...about 3 -5 times a week on average.

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Re: Expectations

Postby Poopa » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:05 pm

Give folks time to reply to this. You might receive quicker results if you change your subject heading to make it obvious that you're only wanting to hear from those in their mid-60's. Not to discourage you and I might be wrong but I kind of think that most of the members here are in their 30's and 40's.


Well, I hope I am in the right place. This is "Senior Sex" isn't it? :D Maybe the mid 60's isn't quite considered Senior? :P Now that's what I call a real dose of encouragement!

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Re: Expectations

Postby Growing » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:43 pm

Poopa wrote:My DW and I seem to have come to a point where we have disparate expectations for our current sexual activities. We are both mid 60's. Some months ago I began experiencing ED and recently started on Testosterone therapy. It has been helpful and provided both a renewed interest and also ability in love making. My DW on the other hand is having trouble with orgasms and contends that this is now to be expected. She had a hysterectomy many years ago that has left her without hormone production and this contributes to her past and current difficulty with orgasms. While we try manual stimulation frequently she says she little or no feeling. Actually, orgasms have always been difficult to achieve. I love here dearly and want only to continue the strong closeness that we have felt over 44 years of marriage. Sex has been an important part of our lives during that time and I am not willing to give it up without a gallant effort. We both want to hang on to what we've had. Actually, I believe that she is somewhat disappointed that a remedy has become available to me while she feels a decreasing libido. I have an expectation that if I can continue to provide her with orgasms she will have a continuing and perhaps increased interest in sexual activity. So my question is specifically, what is a reasonable expectation for sexual activity at age 65 and beyond? Having expectations that are not compatible, I want to adjust my thinking if they are not reasonable or I want to find ways to solve the problem.


The first thing that stands out to me in your post is that you are saying contradictory things. Does your wife desire to hang on to what you have had? or is she frankly not that interested and rather frustrated, that now you have had hormone replacement therapy and are rareing to go again? I suspect based on most of your post it is the latter.

I do not think it is unreasonable at your age to still desire sex with your wife, however, I do not think getting a lot of us to affirm your desire is going to help you any in your quest with your wife. If you want her to be interested, I would imagine that you need to find the root of the problem with why she is having little to no feeling in the genital area. If she is never aroused when you begin, is never aroused by anything you do, it is not surprising she is not very interested! I would suspect, that due to the total depletion of hormones with no replacement whatsoever, in addtion to not having feeling (which I agree is not likely caused by the hyster) that she is likely in pain when you are ML. If I am not aroused, it is painful to me, and I am much younger than your wife.

I would suggest you try to get her to see a different doctor and see if there is something that can be done about the loss of feeling and desire. If hormone treatment is not safe for her, perhaps there are some topical creams that would aid her? Perhaps there is some other underlying cause? Find out what the problem is and what treatments/options there are out there.

I would say, your expectations are not currently resonable considering the situation you and your wife are currently in. However, there is nothing wrong with trying to find avenues that could change your expectations for the future. I would say that the loving thing if your desire levels can not be made closer together is for her to be generous at times she would rather not, and you to be generous about not asking every time that you would desire to.

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Re: Expectations

Postby Poopa » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:54 pm

The first thing that stands out to me in your post is that you are saying contradictory things. Does your wife desire to hang on to what you have had? or is she frankly not that interested and rather frustrated, that now you have had hormone replacement therapy and are rareing to go again? I suspect based on most of your post it is the latter.

Yes, indeed, I think that is a fair assessment of our situation. I believe that we both were experiencing diminishing desire and until ED set off an alarm for action our expectations were more in sync. Now with Testosterone therapy I have renewed interest. DW is frustrated because of the belief that there is little available to her to improve her desire. For some time orgasms have been difficult for her. Not knowing much different has resulted in complacency in both of us. Not only do we want to hang on to what have had but also we would like to make some improvements. I appreciate the transparency being expressed here. We remain open to suggestions. I don't want to become overbearing to her which in turn can create additional performance issues. It is indeed a delicate balance to maintain and I want to be sensitive and loving. We have enough stress over this issue as it is.

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Re: Expectations

Postby Gemma » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:48 pm

mom210 wrote:Dh is in his 50's..but my mother and father are 68 yr old and they have a fairly active sex life...about 3 -5 times a week on average.


Well, if we're also talking about our parents.... My dad's in his 80's and, yes, with a very, healthy SD. My sister-in-law's dad is also in his 80's and it's the same thing with him, healthy SD. My dh's almost in his 60's and he's an every-dayer, sometimes twice a day, and I keep right up there with him!

My dh and I hope to be this way in our 80's one day :wink: ::xx ::luv2 ::alarm ::two ::clap ::wed .
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Re: Expectations

Postby Poopa » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:05 pm

If the information regarding the impact of hysterectomies isn't confusing enough, here is an interesting site:
http://christiannymphos.org/2008/12/18/orgasm-after-hysterectomy/

Experience and results are as varied as individuals. I found the video to be provocative. Years ago we put our trust in the knowledge and advise of our physicians. Had we this level of information to consider we may have chosen differently.

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Re: Expectations

Postby Gemma » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:13 pm

HysterSisters is the most helpful site I know of for reliable info on hysters.
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Re: Expectations

Postby ledgemoor » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:46 am

Poopa, my parents are in their mid-70s and still sexually active. As long as you are in good health, there is no reason why age should be a barrier to great sex.

If your wife had her ovaries removed, it explains her lack of sex drive. Even after menopause, ovaries make testosterone. With low testosterone, she will have as much interest in sex as you did when you were six years old, plus other symptoms.

DW recently had a total hysterectomy. She was about three years post-menopausal, age approx 50. She had cancer, we had no choice. The effects of removing her ovaries was much more devistating than menopause -- brain fog, insomnia, lack of energy, pubic hair falling out, no vaginal lubrication, lower sex drive, and just generally not being herself.

She has been on bioidentical hormone replacement therapy for about 4 months now, and doing great -- almost back to normal, and in some ways better, as she had hormone problems before the surgery too.

The difficult thing for us was finding a competent doctor to perscribe it. My mom and DW both had basd experiences with it in the past. A lot of doctors tend to prescribe too high a dosage. Fortunately we found a gyn who is very conservative, very intelligent, and with 30 years experience perscribing bHRT. And in addition to estrogens, progesterone, and testosterone, other tests should be done, including thyroid tests and vitimin levels. DW had about 25 blood tests, and found a thyroid problem that previous doctors had missed.

Cancer is a concern, as estrogen does cause cell growth -- I guess this is why girls have big boobs. Most of the cancer scare came from the million-woman study in which non-human estrogens were used primarily to treat the symptoms of menopause. Our oncologist, from a major university, is not a big proponent of bHRT. However, she believes that the panic from the million-woman study was overblown and driven more by the press and publicity than science. So what if your cancer risk increases from 2% to 5%? (not actual figures--just examples to make a point). It is worth being basically non-functional the rest of your life?

There are small studies that show that bHRT patients have a lower incidence of cancer. In the case of women with a hysterectomy, the goal of bHRT should be to merely get hormone levels up to where they would be for a normal, healthy post-menopausal woman. Presumably human estrogens are safer than equine, soy etc. estrogens. (Soy, black kohosh, etc may be natural, but only when growing in a field, not when introduced into your body :-) ) At any rate, a lot of people are on bHRT and we aren't hearing about any outbreak of cancer among them.

Here is a link discussing pros and cons of bHRT:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=43475

If you are interested, I as well as others here can provide further assistance.
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Re: Expectations

Postby Gemma » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:19 am

ledgemoor wrote: If your wife had her ovaries removed, it explains her lack of sex drive. Even after menopause, ovaries make testosterone. With low testosterone, she will have as much interest in sex as you did when you were six years old, plus other symptoms.


While this could be true for some, it's not necessarily so for all women who have had a complete hyster. I don't have my ovaries and my SD is very high. Just wanted to mention that so folks don't think "no ovaries = low/no-SD".
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