Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Aging brings changes - some good, some not so much.
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Psalm33
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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Psalm33 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:08 am

Once you start this treatment are you on it for the rest of your life? Testicles atrophy?

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Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby mrvan » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:15 am

You can stop any time you like. The testicles aren't producing as much T as one may like and will probably continue to produce less. They aren't likely to get better. My dr said they'd possibly shrink some, but I haven't really noticed.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Programmer » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:52 am

51 years old, been on intramuscular injections for about 3 years. I am a testicular cancer survivor and my one remaining testicle was not doing the job (it has some problems of its own, but since it is my only one the Dr. does not want to chance operating on it).

Before T treatment: T=183, lower energy but normal sex drive.

On 150 mg injected in thigh every 12 days. My T level now goes from to over 900 the day after injection down to upper 200's on day 12, which puts me through the entire "normal" range every 12 days. My Doc says noone should ever go longer than 14 days between injections because of the ups and downs. He also says that injections are the most cost effective (of our town of over 125,000 he is the T replacement expert). I don't really notice any changes during that 12 days other than the frequency of night erections which peak day 3 to 6.

My out of pocket cost is about $15 per 10 dose bottle after insurance. Needles are about $0.50/each.

Energy level is up and so is the ability to add muscle and recover from exercise.

I did start using a CPAP machine about the same time, so I cannot completely seperate the benefits of each.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby SquarePants » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:06 pm

Psalm33 wrote:Once you start this treatment are you on it for the rest of your life? Testicles atrophy?

HCG is included as part of my treatment, which minimizes, if not completely eliminates atrophy. Body builders will cycle high doses on and off, and will typically use HCG to restore testicular function between the cycles. HCG alone was able to increase my testosterone levels to the mid 500's, but it wasn't really high enough to be optimum, so my therapy includes both HCG and testosterone (as separate injections).

Programmer wrote:On 150 mg injected in thigh every 12 days.

I've heard from several sources that injected testosterone should be injected no less than once a week in order to reduce the wild fluctuations in testosterone levels. I've been surprised at how many people here are reporting that their doctor is recommended less frequent injections.

Is anyone else monitoring their estrogen levels and/or taking arimidex to reduce estrogen?

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby lovestubbornly » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:29 pm

I'm 43 and started injecting 100 mg weekly about 22 (?) weeks ago. I first went to the doctor in November 2011 for a whole host of issues including high cholesterol, high blood sugar, lethargy, and a lack of concentration. They put me on meds for all of that and I still felt awful. I researched all this for myself and found out there was a possible connection to low T. I had the Dr. check my T level and it came back at 260 (?) so he put me on Axiron. That didn't do any good and my T actually dropped to 62! That Dr. didn't seem to want to move fast enough for me so I tried another and she started me on 100 mg injectable weekly and that did the trick. It got my T level up to 900 and I feel much better. My blood sugar is sometimes still a little high but, other than that, all my other symptoms went away and the T is the only medication I'm taking now. I go for another full physical and blood work in Oct. and we'll see if anything needs adjusting then.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby golfwidow » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:11 am

Not to derail the thread as such, but may I ask what sort of weight/fitness levels you guys are at ? (no details required :D ) I ask because I had recently been reading an article about the effect of fat on libido for men and women.

The more body fat you have, the higher your levels of a natural chemical known as SHBG (short for sex hormone binding globulin). It's aptly named because it binds to the sex hormone testosterone. Doctors theorize that the more testosterone that is bound to SHBG, the less there is available to stimulate desire.


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/ ... ekey=56044

lovestubbornly said

I first went to the doctor in November 2011 for a whole host of issues including high cholesterol, high blood sugar


That article talks about effect of high cholesterol etc.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby mom210 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:25 am

My dh who is 53 has been on TRT for over 4 years now..
He has pretty much maintained the same weight for the last 10 years or so.
He is 5'11" and weighs 178 and has a 34 inch waist.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Psalm33 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:43 am

Mom210, do you attribute the T treatment for his ability to maintain his weight? I'm 5'10" and 180 and I have a difficult time staying at this weight, 34" waist, but I have to eat very little.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby mom210 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:58 am

Psalm33 wrote:Mom210, do you attribute the T treatment for his ability to maintain his weight? I'm 5'10" and 180 and I have a difficult time staying at this weight, 34" waist, but I have to eat very little.


Dh has always been of rather normal weight. He doesn't seem to have a big appetite.. pretty much normal;.. and he does drink a beer or two most evenings.. but he wasn't big before the TRT so I don't know... I do know that he did not go through a "middle age spread" so perhaps it does help.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby hubbyforher » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:08 am

SquarePants wrote:Is anyone else monitoring their estrogen levels and/or taking arimidex to reduce estrogen?


While you certainly can monitor your estrogen levels, since the ratio of test/estrogen does matter in terms of how you feel, typically you can just monitor estrogen by ensuring that your nipples don't start to itch and get overly puffy. That's a tell-tale sign of elevated estrogen. Arimidex works well to block the aromatase enzyme, thus reducing the amount of conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Some people on TRT will take arimidex regularly or just as needed. 0.25mg on an as-needed basis is what I would recommend, because if you reduce estrogen too far, it can negatively affect libido.
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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Psalm33 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:33 am

mom210 wrote:
Psalm33 wrote:Mom210, do you attribute the T treatment for his ability to maintain his weight? I'm 5'10" and 180 and I have a difficult time staying at this weight, 34" waist, but I have to eat very little.


Dh has always been of rather normal weight. He doesn't seem to have a big appetite.. pretty much normal;.. and he does drink a beer or two most evenings.. but he wasn't big before the TRT so I don't know... I do know that he did not go through a "middle age spread" so perhaps it does help.


I have maintained a pretty normal weight, but lately it has been with quite an effort. A couple of years ago I was at 190 and I decided to lose weight so I cut back on what I was eating and got down to 170 in about 8 to 10 weeks. Now I've tried to get back to 170 for awhile and I stay at 180 to 185. Very frustrating. I hope the TRT helps. That would be a nice additional bonus!

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby SquarePants » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:24 am

hubbyforher wrote:
SquarePants wrote:Is anyone else monitoring their estrogen levels and/or taking arimidex to reduce estrogen?


While you certainly can monitor your estrogen levels, since the ratio of test/estrogen does matter in terms of how you feel, typically you can just monitor estrogen by ensuring that your nipples don't start to itch and get overly puffy. That's a tell-tale sign of elevated estrogen. Arimidex works well to block the aromatase enzyme, thus reducing the amount of conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Some people on TRT will take arimidex regularly or just as needed. 0.25mg on an as-needed basis is what I would recommend, because if you reduce estrogen too far, it can negatively affect libido.


I don't think that the nipple symptoms are an accurate indicator of high estrogen for everyone. My estrogen blood levels were high, even though I did not have puffy or itchy nipples. I just didn't feel like the testosterone was doing any good.

golfwidow wrote:Not to derail the thread as such, but may I ask what sort of weight/fitness levels you guys are at ? (no details required :D ) I ask because I had recently been reading an article about the effect of fat on libido for men and women.

I'm 5'9", 174 lbs, with size 34 waist. I'm reasonably fit, and typically workout 2-3 times a week. My SHBG levels were normal. They went up when I tried the Androgel. Libido has always been high regardless of my levels of testosterone, SHBG, or estrogen.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Programmer » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:16 pm

golfwidow wrote:Not to derail the thread as such, but may I ask what sort of weight/fitness levels you guys are at ? (no details required :D )


In the last 5 years I have gone from 284 lbs. (measured body fat of 32%, 44" waist) to 225 lbs (measured body fat of 16%, 34" waist) and the best shape of my life at 48 years old in 2009. In 2009 I ran serveral 5K races, did a triathlon, skydived, and did a Muddy Buddy (bike/run/obstacals) race. In 2010 I wrecked my right hip. I still did two "mud run" races, finishing in the top 20% of everyone both times. I am 6'3" tall (think offensive lineman). As my hip got worse, I went up to 288 lbs by Jan. of this year (calculated BMI of 35%). With my hip resurfaced last month and the ability to start walking (all I can do for now), I am down to 272.5 lbs today (now aged 51). After six months I will be able to start running again and go back to trice weekly boot camp.

During all of that fluctuation in weight and fitness, I don't think my T levels changed much at each 6 month check.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Programmer » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:38 pm

SquarePants wrote:
Programmer wrote:On 150 mg injected in thigh every 12 days.

I've heard from several sources that injected testosterone should be injected no less than once a week in order to reduce the wild fluctuations in testosterone levels. I've been surprised at how many people here are reporting that their doctor is recommended less frequent injections.


If 12 days works for me and I don't notice "the wild fluctuations", why would my doctor recommend me to inject more often? I save the cost (low as it is) of the syringes and bypass the fun of injecting myself almost twice as much.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby texashubby » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:12 pm

Psalm33 wrote:Anyone had any luck with natural supplements alone? I already take saw palmetto. My dad had prostate cancer and I'm mostly taking it just in case it might help.


Saw palmetto inhibits Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which linked to BHP and age-related baldness in males.

DHT amounts to about 7% of the total Testosterone.

I do not believe Saw Palmetto will increase Testosterone or libido in male.

Suggest a Wiki search of Testosterone & Dihydrotestosterone.

I hope the doctors prescribing testosterone in one form or another, monitors the patient's PSA. There is a link between aging, testosterone & prostate cancer.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby lovestubbornly » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:54 pm

I''m 6 feet tall and weigh about 220. Before starting T replacement, I considered myself mildly obese with a 38 inch waste. I still weigh about 220 but now I have a 35 inch waste and I've put on muscle in place of the fat I've lost. I haven't changed my activity level at all.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Psalm33 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:07 pm

texashubby wrote:
Psalm33 wrote:Anyone had any luck with natural supplements alone? I already take saw palmetto. My dad had prostate cancer and I'm mostly taking it just in case it might help.


Saw palmetto inhibits Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which linked to BHP and age-related baldness in males.

DHT amounts to about 7% of the total Testosterone.

I do not believe Saw Palmetto will increase Testosterone or libido in male.

Suggest a Wiki search of Testosterone & Dihydrotestosterone.

I hope the doctors prescribing testosterone in one form or another, monitors the patient's PSA. There is a link between aging, testosterone & prostate cancer.


Yep. My doctor is well aware of my family history of prostate cancer and I'll be sure he continues to monitor my PSA closely. Thanks for the concern.

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Psalm33 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:46 am

Some of the posts note that there is an increase in sex drive, which seems obvious. Has this been a problem!? Has it caused issues between you and your DW?

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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby librarian » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:51 pm

In our case, no. DW has commented that while her libido/drive is low, she enjoys my drive, as it leads her along. Our key is a generous DW who understands how important sex is to me.
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Re: Pros and Cons of the Different Testosterone Treatments

Postby Psalm33 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:30 am

Got a prescription for Androgel 1.62 today. Costs... $268 per month with the $50 discount card! That's a car payment, for a really nice car. I gave it back and called my doctor. He's going to put me on Axiron instead, $25 per month. I've checked around this forum and most claim little or no success with it. Has anyone here had success with Axiron? Maybe I'll just buy a new car! A Corvette is bound to increase my testosterone.


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